firevalor Report post Posted February 4, 2007 precicely what the_piper just posted. you cant tell us its a double chance then poke your head out and go !suprise! thats not in the cards. 7 pp is crucial in any characters build and throwing us a curveball that costs months of work to get (7pp) is just mean and wrong. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ttlanhil Report post Posted February 4, 2007 If you liked that perk before you found out about the not double thing, then you should like the perk now too, because finding out about it doesn't change anything.no, I thought it would be an acceptable trade based on doubling of rares. because of the rates, though, it's hard for us to know if we're getting an impact, so we assume it's true and that eventually it all evens out. meaning we assume we get the 2x and are happy about that. we liked what it said it did, not what it actually did, so it does change Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Entropy Report post Posted February 4, 2007 One other thing: Without the perk, every rare item is checked against a 10K treshold. With the perk, it is checked against a 7K treshold. The EFE for example goes from 0.03% to a little over 0.042% which is a ~45% increase. And no, I can't give you back your PPs, first it is not possible to do that, and second you used the perk anyway and got your benefits already. Giving you back the PPs would be like giving you a very long term interest free loan. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shea Report post Posted February 4, 2007 Well, sorry again. This was changed since the beginning of time, almost 3 years ago. If you liked that perk before you found out about the not double thing, then you should like the perk now too, because finding out about it doesn't change anything. It would be my guess that many people didn't like the perk, which is why there has been discussion about it, as well as resets to get rid of it. Until you said anything we had no way of knowing if we were just unlucky or if the perk was "broken". Now that we know, we can make an informed decission. One based on fact and not false information. Perhaps refunding the 7 pps to those who wish it, and removing the perk from those characters would be a fair way to resolve this. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jamincollins Report post Posted February 4, 2007 And no, I can't give you back your PPs, first it is not possible to do that, and second you used the perk anyway and got your benefits already. Giving you back the PPs would be like giving you a very long term interest free loan. Considering that the perk was essentially taken under false pretenses I think many of us would see that as more than fair repayment. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
firevalor Report post Posted February 4, 2007 no shea its until now you just didnt know you were being ham stringed. its realy no point arguing. =/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scafativ Report post Posted February 4, 2007 And no, I can't give you back your PPs, first it is not possible to do that, and second you used the perk anyway and got your benefits already. Giving you back the PPs would be like giving you a very long term interest free loan. Not really, entropy. The people with the perk haven't had the benefit of those 7 PPS, so it's a quid pro quo. Scaf Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Barandur Report post Posted February 4, 2007 I took the Perk based on what was SAID and what I READ. I liked the IDEA of doubling my chances to get a 'rare' item. I didn't expect it to be a giveaway of free loot, I expected to work for it. I sat down in one spot after spending several days gathering/mining ingredients and made 25,000 Fe's. No EFE's. I did this several times with various items and was troubled when I saw few 'rares' in the items I made. But I took it on Faith that the description accurately reflected the true effect of the perk. It isn't a case of 'I liked it then, I should like it now'. I haven't liked the return on this investment and have been questioning my rate of return since I started. If the Wraith were an Advertising Agent or an Insurance Salesman I'd sue him for False Advertising and Fraud. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Entropy Report post Posted February 4, 2007 Ok, tell you what. I am going to remove that perk from the wraith, and automatically give back to everyone those precious 7 PPs. I didn't like that perk anyway, it was totally unballanced, and way too powerful. Of course, this takes some time to fix, so the update that was supposed to come tomorrow will be delayed by a week or so (I have other things to do as well). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chance Report post Posted February 4, 2007 Is it too much to ask that you all try to understand that the game is beta and that everybody who works on the game volunteers? It's not like Ent is blizzard or some massive conglomeration with 50 coders. It was an oversight. Ent's been quick to try and fix problems with books and mixing formulas etc. How many of you said thanks with even 1/10 the fervor with which you complained when something displeased you? Just something to think about. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Barandur Report post Posted February 4, 2007 Agreed, Chance. And let me be the first to say THANK YOU Entropy, because it is settled in what I consider to be a fair manner. Had I known it was 30% I'd not have spent those PickPoints, as I wouldn't have felt 30% was enough to part with them. At the higher levels, its difficult to get ONE PickPoint, let alone 7. Getting them back without having to reset is VERY nice and it is APPRECIATED. That saves me more time than I even care to contemplate considering I have two full time jobs and don't get much time to play as it is. So a Thank You for this fix, Entropy, and another Thank You to all the volunteers that work on this game. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jamincollins Report post Posted February 4, 2007 I too thank you for agreeing to refund the 7 PP that people spent on this perk. As some others have indicated, if I'd known it was only 30% I would never have spent 7 PP on it. Thank you again for the way you've handled this. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scafativ Report post Posted February 4, 2007 Ok, tell you what. I am going to remove that perk from the wraith, and automatically give back to everyone those precious 7 PPs. A top notch solution. Bravo! scaf Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Happy_G Report post Posted February 4, 2007 Thank you Ent, im glad we were able to discuss this without anyone getting made and/or flaming. its nice that we can discuss things and get them fixed/changed. if anyone tells me that you dont listen to the players i will point them to this thread where you do clearly listen to what we have to say. again i Thank you for listening to us, and thank you to everyone that works hard on making this a great game, we can live with the delay in the new update Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jaha Report post Posted February 4, 2007 While I do not have the perk, I am glad that a solution that is good for everyone was found. Thank you ent. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ttlanhil Report post Posted February 4, 2007 I am going to remove that perk from the wraith, and automatically give back to everyone those precious 7 PPs.okay, that sounds fair, thanks Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thyralax Report post Posted February 4, 2007 I promised myself i wouldnt comment in this. However i figure i should at least ad my opinion on it. 1st when was anything in eternal lands set in stone. Things change and arnt always what they seem. I have artificer and had it before on all of my resets (numerous that they are). Making items with and with out it makes a difference this is all the more visible now we have the counters. If anything the thought of would that have been an efe if i had artificer or not made alchemy and everything seem more pleasurable even in a little way. I saved along time to get the pickpoints specificly for artificer and have always thought they were well spent. Given a choice id take artificer again. Even knowing it was only 30% (I was happy with it before why shouldnt i be now?) Id just like to make this point before i stop As for the tone that some people seem to have taken to making posts here has saddened me, some of these people i consider friends. It seems that what should have been a debate became a chance to whine, complian and start a witch hunt. This is a game its not like you have remortgaged the house to buy a perk. Im sure things like this will happen again in the future. All i can hope is that when they do people will stop and think before they walk blindly on or start ranting. Pause and remember that this is a free game, one that all of the volonteers who contribute work very hard at. Im sure is not only for the pleasure at seeing it made but for the pleasure of seeing it played. Just my two cents worth. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gurgeh Report post Posted February 4, 2007 I was not going to post nothing, i have arti and i know the game is beta. I do apreciate Ents efforst but after this i can't stay without posting. Ok, tell you what. I am going to remove that perk from the wraith, and automatically give back to everyone those precious 7 PPs. I didn't like that perk anyway, it was totally unballanced, and way too powerful. Of course, this takes some time to fix, so the update that was supposed to come tomorrow will be delayed by a week or so (I have other things to do as well). i <3 Ent Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Looter Report post Posted February 4, 2007 it seems to me there is plenty who are happy with arti, those that are not should do what everyone who gets a perk they dont like does RESET! .. arti should be better explained but imo it should stay ... heh too late now i guess Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kibora Report post Posted February 4, 2007 People always complain about everything. I think arti perk is cool and it does help Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
conavar Report post Posted February 4, 2007 (edited) Ok, tell you what. I am going to remove that perk from the wraith, and automatically give back to everyone those precious 7 PPs. I didn't like that perk anyway, it was totally unballanced, and way too powerful. Of course, this takes some time to fix, so the update that was supposed to come tomorrow will be delayed by a week or so (I have other things to do as well). And this is fare how ???? Just because a few ppl dont like the perk , everyone else who does like it has to suffer . seriously nice to see the rest of the community who posted to get rid of the perk only thinking about themselves. Its like any other perk if you tried it and dont like the results reset , we've all been there and done that .What nxt ppl dont like NMT perks so lets get that removed and sod everyone else. 30% or 50% it doesnt matter its all down to personal preferance . if i had know it was only 30% and knew how many Enhanced essies i would make then i still would have taken it. my stats with artificer: 30k Fe's = 15 EFe's 11k Le's = 19 ELe's 9k We's = 1 EWe I havent had a problem with the perk and thinks its the best 7pp ive spent , so why should myself and others who like the perk be penalized because a few dont. Thanx guys The problem isnt with " I was told 50% and its only 30% " the problem is people havent made loads and loads of enhanced essies. If they had the 30% wouldnt be an issue . Its like not winning the lottery and then wanting your money back and not only that wanting the winners to return there winnings as well . Edited February 4, 2007 by conavar Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2coolfool Report post Posted February 4, 2007 from what i've heard, some people liked the perk and some didn't. How about resetting everyone with the perk, but still keeping the perk or some modified version of it? btw, thanks for making the change.. i know many game makers don't like to admit mistakes and fix them, glad you do Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cycloonx Report post Posted February 4, 2007 So I guess I can fast take the perk for some time before it got removed? I get the pp back anyway Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MagpieLee Report post Posted February 4, 2007 If its possible to remove Artificer and return the pps, will it be possible to look at the other positive perks again and refine them? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
conavar Report post Posted February 4, 2007 I hope if this perk is removed to keep certain players happy then Ent considers adding an Artificer cape to the game for the majority who like the perk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
