Jump to content
Eternal Lands Official Forums
jamincollins

Artificer broken?

Recommended Posts

Anyway, since it seems that there are people that really like this perk, I decided to implement the cape in a few weeks (it will require human nexus 10, and will be relatively rare, as a monster drop). I also hope that the fighters that will get the drops will NOT sell it to the people who bitched on this thread.

 

Thank you for that compensation :) Well, for me that suits just fine, since I am a fighter mainly, so by the time I plan to experiment with it (and that still means getting a lot of manu levels) I probably will have one from drop anyway. The 10 human nex. can also bring back thermal serps into usage, since with most people using tit plates nowadays which negates its bonus damage (making it almost a normal serp) you are better off with a cutlass now, since that doesnt even needs 7. On the other hand, sure it would be more logical under arti 10 (I say that even that this version suits me better than that :P ), but if Id suggest anything to people in this thread now, just let this be as it is now, and dont push it further, or we might end up without a cape too.. There are so many combination possibilities in this game, just think, and you will see you can make fortunes during the time spent on bitching :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would prefer a system were everyone can carry the cape. Let's say you have 0 nexus, you will have no higher chance to make something. And with every nexus you take it raises with 1%. So people with 20 nexus would have 20% bonus etc. This way people with a lot of nexus have a nice benefit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think you will find that this is a natural phase of anything beta. :)

 

Yep, I've some experience with beta stuff :P

 

When I started playing only a year ago, iron armour was THE top armour, so it was natural that they would require special or enriched items. Although I accept that time has overtaken than now, I don't think it is feasible to change the formulas now. In any case, it simply means those items of armour are no longer worth making and will just die out naturally, which is why everyone at DP arena has full steel or titanium arour :)

 

Thank you for your explanation, that helps in understanding why it is so, but I disagree with your conclusions: it's a shame that some objects be "lost" because the game structure moved on, the game is empoverished as a result; and till the rules are the same all those starting manufacturing will be stuck with unnecessarily difficult to make objects at the beginning. OTOH, as you noticed, since it's a beta I would expect (and gratefully accept) a global revision of rules at some point, so that both the game complexity and a fair balance are reached.

 

Rehdon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

lol I dont have the perk, but make it harder to do rare stuff without the perk, then the perk maybe give double the chance... and no more complaining here, it will be a new complaining-thread about lower the base chance of rare stuff :)

 

Now I will be hated all over in EL if it will be like this :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Returning to the topic of 'bonus' items coming in groups...

 

I have certainly found that with ele - I have made 15+ in 4k le.

Incredibly - I did once make 4 in 180 le! (and 3 in 250)

 

As for efe - 1 in 28k fe.

 

And that is without the perk! The ELE seems to be much better than those with the perk, the EFE lower than with the perk. It is all pure luck!

 

Rr.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And once again the mentality of the masses spoils what i consider to be one of the best perks in the game.

 

I know the wraith says it doubles the chance but you know I never really kept track of the % of things I produced with this perk, I just know its a hell of a lot higher than those produced without it. I recently reset and one of the first things I did was retake the perk and it showed its benifits immediatly.

 

Thank you Ent for at least allowing those of us who LIKE the perk to have a cape in replacement, after the constant and mindless repetition of the same complaint I am not sure I would be so considerate.

 

*runs and starts making hydro bars to increase whichever nexus I will need for the cape*

 

Now i just need to find someone who whats to sell it :P

 

BTW any chance of making it pale purple?? *g*

 

Wolfy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(...)

Thank you Ent for at least allowing those of us who LIKE the perk to have a cape in replacement, after the constant and mindless repetition of the same complaint I am not sure I would be so considerate.

 

*runs and starts making hydro bars to increase whichever nexus I will need for the cape*

(...)

Wolfy

 

He said maybe (big maybe)

Do you think that means a Yes? I doubt - We have lost this artificer perk/cloak

 

sue

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Anyway, since it seems that there are people that really like this perk, I decided to implement the cape in a few weeks (it will require human nexus 10, and will be relatively rare, as a monster drop). I also hope that the fighters that will get the drops will NOT sell it to the people who bitched on this thread.

 

That seems like a yes to me......worst case scenario is that we DO loose the perk completely and with no cape and I get richer selling the bars I made in the hopes Ent does not change his mind :P)

 

Have to look on the bright side

 

Wolfy

 

Edit coz I messed the quote thing up

Edited by WolfWitch

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One second...

I've re-read my post(s) several times and believe there was no bitching involved (huh - you quoted my post?). I guess If you think it was then I'm pretty shocked that you would have a low bitching threshold ;)

 

I've always loved this perk (my friends can vouch for me here) no matter all the people saying it wasn't effective. I'm still sad to see it go yet happy to see its return in the form of a cape.

Now the only thing left is to make the most of it before it goes poof.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's kinda weird though, why human nexus? Fighters have high human nexus but people who are 100% on mixing doesn't have high human nexus. So in this case fighters will be priviliged again? They get the drop + It's much easier for them to get the 10 human nexus. I don't see the use then for mixers... Anyway I won't use if it stays like this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I didn't start this thread to bitch about the perk. I started it because I truly believed the perk I had purchased was broken (ie it was not performing as it had been described when I purchased it). Turns out that it was never intended to function that way, but continued to be advertised that way (in both official and semi/non-official channels).

 

Had it been advertised properly and functioning properly I would never have asked for the 7pp to be refunded. Rather it would simply have been one of those things you had to lump like everyone else that takes a perk and finds out they don't really like it. However, with this perk, the fact remains that it was incorrectly advertised by all in game material. As such, players that took it and want out should not be forced to reset to do so. After all, some of them (myself included) would not have spent 7pp for the 30% increase (1.3x)rather than the advertised 100% increase (2x). Again I would like to thank Entropy for his agreeing to do so.

 

However, I think utterly removing the perk is taking things a bit too far. There seem to be a number of people that like it. There is no reason to punish those people because of an advertising error. Simply refunding everyone that has the perk their 7pp, correcting the information on the Wraith (possibly with a big warning that it has changed and what it really does), and then leaving the perk to be retaken by anyone that is interested would solve the problem for everyone. Those that feel they didn't get what they paid for would have their refund, those that really do want the perk would be only out the GC cost.

 

If there is anyone that feels my starting this thread has hurt them or their character, please accept my apology. I honestly felt it was the right thing to do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nevertheless, like I said, I never liked that perk (except for in the beginning, when I implemented it and didn't have the experience I have now about ingame economies). So from my point of view, it is good that it's going.

 

 

However, I think utterly removing the perk is taking things a bit too far. There seem to be a number of people that like it.

 

And who's game is this....?

 

Honestly, this seems to be the hardest concept for people to grasp in EL.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hope my post didn't come off as a complaint, I did not mean it to be so. To repeat what others have said, the game is in Beta and the economy MUST be difficult to keep in balance.

I was just caught by surprise at the news of 30% but frankly my math skills and tired old brain don't really care one way or 'tother! I think Artificer is an attractive perk, and intend to keep it as long as it's in the game. I mean no slight to Entropy, Roja, or any of the designers, these are the REAL gods of EL.

 

Um, howzabout 37.5%? ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think this perk is useless, never had it, made lots of EFEs, and other "rare" items, I think it's more a question of luck.

I have 51730 FE on my counter and 22 EFEs, it's an EFE for each 2351 FE. I think few with the perk have got so many.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
And who's game is this....?

 

Honestly, this seems to be the hardest concept for people to grasp in EL.

Are we not allowed to express our opinions? That is all I've done.

 

 

The problem is not with starting threads where you tell that something might be wrong, there is even a suggestion forum here for a reason. The problem with this thread was the tone with it was being handled from the first place. How this thread went in a nutshell ? You point out a problem, Ent says WTF, i did know that, Im sorry, we will correct the description. People then tell him no, that aint fair, give us the pps back. Ent says no, it was a mistake, we will correct it, but thats all. You all should have gotten the hint by then. And then people just continue demanding, even worse calling it a fraud, omg wtf, you cheated us.. So Ent says, ok im fed up with all this, Ill get rid of it completely. The crowd cheers, woohoo I dont have to reset, you saved me an enormous time. Then the next thing which will happen, is that market dominating guilds who (I guess) use this perk in combination with massive guild projects to keep the EFE prices as it is now, will produce less efes, so they will sell it for more gc. The following up thing is that some dude who bitched here will break his shiny iron plate on a raccoon, and then he will see that the price for iron plate suddenly went up for some unknown reason, while the ammount of gc he can generate for example from the lupin bush per hour remained the same so he has to work double time for getting anew. Then, of course, he will bitch here saying OMG WTF this sux I dont have time 4 this put back teh old prices or Im so quitting teh game!!!111!

To which, of course, we will reply: good idea, bye, but that wont help us changing the situation he and his mates put all of us into.

So again: the problem is not that people tell a problem.. The problem is how they tend to tell it, and if anything is sure in life except death, then this is: you will just get an even worse deal at the end.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Are we not allowed to express our opinions? That is all I've done.

It's not just you. But there is a world of difference between a mature opinion and constant harping on the same issue and complaints. Especially when an opinion wasn't asked for, and a decision by the person who MADE this game was made.

 

It's no wonder people who make and work on the game get frustrated and crabby. If you all are such experts, go make your own game.

 

And no this particular perk has nothing to do with it personally, I don't have it and don't have issues either way with it. It's the general atmosphere of whining and demanding and complaining that bothers me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have arti and i love it.I dont really care if the chances to make a rare item are 30% or 50%.If u dont like this perk dont take it.I made many efe's and ele's.Celtic lady the best manuer in game has arti.

Probably only people that saved 7 pps must be able to create rare items.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Meh. I knew this will happen ever since I took the first glance on this thread. Seriously, I have no idea how the numbers behind the stuff do work, but I think I understand completely how Ent works, so to say. This is exactly what happened in the last big vial-whining thread as well, when the final result was that the bad changes stayed, plus the planned positive counter-balance (minor mana giving 10 mana points) disappeared as well.

 

Yep, and you'd think people would learn..

It almost happened again with the summoning stones, I was really planing to put them under crafting, due to many top summoners bitching. Eventually, I decided to let them under summoning, with the condition that the bitchers will pay a fine (some of them did, some of them didn't and other's paid their fine).

 

Anyway, since it seems that there are people that really like this perk, I decided to implement the cape in a few weeks (it will require human nexus 10, and will be relatively rare, as a monster drop). I also hope that the fighters that will get the drops will NOT sell it to the people who bitched on this thread.

 

I thought about all this since we were told that there had been a mistake in the added chance to create enriched items. I have always been happy with the perk, but at first I did feel a bit short-changed. I thought I was making on average twice as many enriched items as those without the perk. But looking back on it, personally, I don't care if I was or not. The perk increased the number of enriched items I made and that is why I got the perk in the first place. I made alot of enriched armors in relation to the amount of normal ones I have made.

 

I don't have one complaint about the perk and given the choice, I would keep it. Since I don't have that choice I will happily attempt to purchase the cape if that is what you choose to implement. I just have one suggestion (it has already been mentioned, but I would like to discuss it a bit further) that I would hope you will take into consideration before your final implementation of the cape if it does go in the game.

 

Fighters will benefit from the cape as a drop they can sell. Pure mixers will be hindered in that they probably don't have 6-7 human nexus already. Ok, that is fine that they will have to invest pickpoints to wear the cape. We should have to, but I think that artificial nexus would be more suited to the mixers who will be using the cape. This would even work for fighter/mixers who could benefit by getting the cape as a drop themselves saving gc and who may already have some pickpoints in artificial but maybe not as many as they have in human. They save gc, but invest more pickpoints to use the cape if they want to keep and use it.

 

Let's look at the number of enriched items that can be made and what nexus catagory they fall under( I hope I didn't miscount).

Essences: 5 enriched versions - no nexus required (all but one or two can be alched with enrichment stone)

Potions: 2 enriched versions - vegetal (both can be made either random or with ingreds)

Crafting: 1 enriched version - magic (can be made random or with ingreds)

Manufacturing: 16 enriched versions - artificial (all random)

 

Now, going by the above, to me it would be more fair to have the cape fall under the artificial nexus. Yes, that would give manufacturers a bit more advantage over the other specialties, but as you can see, the other specialties already have an advantage when it comes to making enriched items. I don't want to get into specifics of each specialty, that isn't my point. My point is that other than the cape being a type of clothing, it doesn't really make sense (to me at least) to put it under human. We do have some cross nexus needed items (ie. enchanted swords, crafted items) and that is good to some extent because the nexus needed blends well together. This instance may not blend as well and won't be as fair in my opinion.

 

Either way you choose to add it is fine with me. Not everything has to make sense and work well together. Nor will you be able to please everyone. I thank you for any consideration you give to this and other suggestions.

 

And just FYI to anyone that might be wondering, I have human 6 and artifical 7. It would only be a difference of 1 pickpoint to me, so it isn't a big deal to me either way. It just makes more sense and seems more fair to me to have it in artificial.

 

EDIT: I did miscount. I forgot all the modable swords >.< Add another 7 items to enriched manufactured items.

Edited by CelticLady

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was out this weekend and came back to this thread and WOW. ;)

 

You know, I can understand some players being shocked by the correction. I suggest in the future though, that you take some time to calm down. Go watch a movie or whatever. THEN come back and calmly and constructively discuss the situation.

 

This is a free game. I know many have donated money, but I highly doubt that the contributions truly pay for as many hours as you play. Which means, right from the beginning you are getting more out of the game than you are contributing.

 

It also suggests that you should be GREATFUL and not spiteful when such issues arise, since they are few and far between.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would prefer a system were everyone can carry the cape. Let's say you have 0 nexus, you will have no higher chance to make something. And with every nexus you take it raises with 1%. So people with 20 nexus would have 20% bonus etc. This way people with a lot of nexus have a nice benefit.

That is already in the works, and that will be a separate cape (even more rare).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fighters will benefit from the cape as a drop they can sell. Pure mixers will be hindered in that they probably don't have 6-7 human nexus already. Ok, that is fine that they will have to invest pickpoints to wear the cape. We should have to, but I think that artificial nexus would be more suited to the mixers who will be using the cape. This would even work for fighter/mixers who could benefit by getting the cape as a drop themselves saving gc and who may already have some pickpoints in artificial but maybe not as many as they have in human. They save gc, but invest more pickpoints to use the cape if they want to keep and use it.

 

Well, some people think that the fighters, as many of them already have a high human nexus, will invest 3 more PPs to be able to wear that cape. But I don't think that will be the case, at least not for the top fighters. For them, 3 'wasted' pickpoints is a lot, and they would rather invest them in phy/co or some other perk for figthers. On the other hand, most manufacturers/crafters/alchemists/etc. already have a human nexus of around 4 or so, and for them investing 6 PPs for the cape might be worth it (or not, depending on their view of this perk). Similarly, the people getting 10 human nexus for the cape are not likely to go fight much, and even if they do, that means they will be able to wear some high level armors and weapons, which is overall good for the market, and won't take any advantage away from the fighters (a manufacturer with 10 human won't be able to kill a fighter with 7 human).

I think that if a fighter has 3 PP to spend, they would rather invest them so that they can harvest titanium.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Anyway, since it seems that there are people that really like this perk, I decided to implement the cape in a few weeks (it will require human nexus 10, and will be relatively rare, as a monster drop). I also hope that the fighters that will get the drops will NOT sell it to the people who bitched on this thread.

 

 

I for one would like to say thanx to Ent for Implementing the cape, he didnt have to and to be quiite honest after some of the comment about " being cheated and lied to " last night im surprised he has.

Must be hard to try and balance the game to suit everyone and i think its about time we as players remembered that and look at the bigger picture before we want things added/removed from the game.The GAME IS NOT JUST ABOUT OURSELFS and how it best suits us but about the community as a whole.

 

Mistakes are going to be made in a game that is still in developement and we are in a honoured posistion of being able to add to the final game with are input and suggestions and to help fix those mistakes. Ent strikes me as a person who can take critisism aslong as it is CONSTRUCTIVE and not a bitch fest,maybe people should remember that and take 5 like Ghrae says before posting.( or if a member of a guild discuss it with guildees first before jumping in with both feet ).

 

My input on the cape : At the end of the day thats up to Ent but putting it under Artifier and not Human seems a sensible option, 10 nexus to use it ,fine by me, monster drop good idea but be nice if it was also available from a NPC even if the price was high say 100k ( Its not at the whim of the fighters then who has it ).

The perk it self . i wouldnt change a thing. I think the % is about right anymore and to many rare items would be made.

End of the day its down to Ent. Im just happy that a compromise has been reached

 

Thanx

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fighters will benefit from the cape as a drop they can sell. Pure mixers will be hindered in that they probably don't have 6-7 human nexus already. Ok, that is fine that they will have to invest pickpoints to wear the cape. We should have to, but I think that artificial nexus would be more suited to the mixers who will be using the cape. This would even work for fighter/mixers who could benefit by getting the cape as a drop themselves saving gc and who may already have some pickpoints in artificial but maybe not as many as they have in human. They save gc, but invest more pickpoints to use the cape if they want to keep and use it.

 

Well, some people think that the fighters, as many of them already have a high human nexus, will invest 3 more PPs to be able to wear that cape. But I don't think that will be the case, at least not for the top fighters. For them, 3 'wasted' pickpoints is a lot, and they would rather invest them in phy/co or some other perk for figthers. On the other hand, most manufacturers/crafters/alchemists/etc. already have a human nexus of around 4 or so, and for them investing 6 PPs for the cape might be worth it (or not, depending on their view of this perk). Similarly, the people getting 10 human nexus for the cape are not likely to go fight much, and even if they do, that means they will be able to wear some high level armors and weapons, which is overall good for the market, and won't take any advantage away from the fighters (a manufacturer with 10 human won't be able to kill a fighter with 7 human).

I think that if a fighter has 3 PP to spend, they would rather invest them so that they can harvest titanium.

 

Well the die-hard mixers (those who never fight) will have 0 human nexus. But you have a good point too. (Ps: Harvesting tit ore isn't considered special in game ;))

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is not a question of spending PPs.

Higher nexus can be bought with hydro bars - so PP saved.

I have human 6 and artificial 6 and high a/d and manu level, will buy human 7 for hydro bars - to use the cape will only cost 150 hydro bars.

And I will still have the same PP for p/c.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×