Artificer broken?

[Cyprom]

I hope if this perk is removed to keep certain players happy then Ent considers adding an Artificer cape to the game for the majority who like the perk

Doubt it. Capes don't use up pp (unless you use a human nexus of 10 or so to wear this cape??). I would immediately buy this cape, even though I don't have the perk.

[conavar]

I hope if this perk is removed to keep certain players happy then Ent considers adding an Artificer cape to the game for the majority who like the perk

Doubt it. Capes don't use up pp (unless you use a human nexus of 10 or so to wear this cape??). I would immediately buy this cape, even though I don't have the perk.

 

Nexus 10 sounds fare to me . we will get 7 back from the perk so not losing any by upping my human from 6 to 10

 

Nexus 10 also keeps it for players who enjoy it and not just everyone

[Gretha]

Ok ALL nice ppl.

 

Here is my story.

 

I've been collecting stuff for almost a year to prepare for reset and GET ARTIFICER perk - reset about 3 days ago... took perk about 2 days ago (and I don't want to loose it :/).

 

I'm not glad to see that most of you is thinking only about themselves - don't tell me that you didn't get any benefit in those a few months (some even more than year). Some of you need now pp and just trying to get them back in other way. (I know that some of you feel a bit angry about increased chance but be honest - you got larger chance anyway - even if it's not 200%, and I agree you have right to be angry I'm also a bit disappointed but I've got accepted with that thought of +30%)

 

Before I reset I made myslef 25k (yes 25000) FE without EFE (stopped counting after that). Yeah I got bad luck...

 

But artificer perk not change rate of making enriched but change my bad luck - now I got enriched magic ess. in rate that some other ppl got them without artificer perk and I'm glad because I don't need to make 50k ME to get my first EME.

 

You thought only about yourself speaking in front of all that "everyone will be happy after deleting artificer perk". Well to tell you the truth - not everyone though.

 

It's not right that because of a part of ppl, this perk will disappear completely. It'd be fair to "reset artificer perk", change note about % that it gives but also keep the chance for those ppl who really liked it to take it again.

 

Well... I know also that it'd be a problem for EL-team because it's too much work, and when something is given then something needs to be taken - but well artificer is also 2k gc. So please be fair to ppl...

 

Also I don't want to get back to making FEs and FEs and getting my record to rise maybe even to 50k (without EFE)? Well ... nope I don't want that(I want to have chance to get artificer perk and not lose work of more than 8 month's in game).

 

This is from me.. well I got a lot more to say but.. this post is already too long.

[Mugwump]

How about increasing the 30% to 50%? I took the perk as I intend to make a career as a manu and crafter, hate to see it just go *poof*.

 

As far as the odds go, I made an EFE within 6 hours of game time after I took the perk. This all but guarantees I'll never enrich anything again! Sort of like the rostogol stone I found mining coal as a newbie, I used it up on a deer before I found out what they are worth, never seen another! Hey, it's only a game!

Edited February 4, 2007 by Mugwump

[MagpieLee]

Mug, he has already ruled out increasing it to 50%. Personally I love this perk, changing the description from Doubling (i.e 100%) to the correct amount (30%) would be a step in the right direction. Removing it and returning the perk is another awesome thing.

I still think we should be able to have some sort of Articifer Perk even at 30% and costing 3 pps would be a nice idea. If this was offered to the public vote, I would vote yes on it

 

Edit: I agree with the some of the sentiments of Gretha. I like the fact that I have a higher chance to make something sparkly then otherwise. Don't get me wrong, returning the pps was a great gesture. I took Arti, then reset (not because of the arti perk!) and re-took the perk because it was suited to my personality very much so. I didn't moan as much as the others about it being broken - and when I did, I later got something 'rare'. *hugs Arti perk before it dissapears* lol

Edited February 4, 2007 by MagpieLee

[Mar(c)]

Mug, he has already ruled out increasing it to 50%. Personally I love this perk, changing the description from Doubling (i.e 100%) to the correct amount (30%) would be a step in the right direction. Removing it and returning the perk is another awesome thing.

I still think we should be able to have some sort of Articifer Perk even at 30% and costing 3 pps would be a nice idea. If this was offered to the public vote, I would vote yes on it

Don't you think ruling out the increase to 50% because it's totally unballanced and way too powerful already, also rules out lowering the cost of the perk?

Edited February 4, 2007 by Mar(c)

[smalul]

One other thing:

Without the perk, every rare item is checked against a 10K treshold.

With the perk, it is checked against a 7K treshold.

The EFE for example goes from 0.03% to a little over 0.042% which is a ~45% increase.

Based on this - the "bonus" is about 43% (10000/7000), not 30%, and it is fixed for all item.

I too thought the Artificer perk didn't change the "roll", but just double the amount of numbers which would cause a "hit", so you get 100% chance more to score a hit and make a rare item.

I don't have the perk, but I would suggest changing the roll base from 7000 to 6500, which would give a bonus of about 50%, and I think everyone would be happy.

Edited February 4, 2007 by smalul

[Lotheneil]

Some people feel cheated now, and I think they have some rights to feel this way. There was some misunderstanding, but in fact most people who took this perk like it and don't want to loose it.

In my humble oppinion a way to reset this perk would be a good thing (some kind of one time opportunity), but with possibility for people who actually like this perk to keep it.

I don't think it needs to be removed only because the description was wrong... some people may actually want to take this perk even knowing the correct numbers - unless there are other reasons to get rid of it.

[Cycloonx]

What about just resetting everyone and keep the perk there? So people who still want it can get it back, people who want to get rid of it doesn't take it again...

[MagpieLee]

Don't you think ruling out the increase to 50% because it's totally unballanced and way too powerful already, also rules out lowering the cost of the perk?

Well considering people took it under the pretence of 7pps for 100%, 3pps for 30% is much less. There's also the possibility of lowering it to 25-20-15% for 3pps. I was not shown any statistics about how 'powerful' it was or how it was 'totally unbalanced'. I might understand if it really was 100% but it wasn't.

[Entropy]

How about increasing the 30% to 50%?

 

How about ROFL?

 

Don't you think ruling out the increase to 50% because it's totally unballanced and way too powerful already, also rules out lowering the cost of the perk?

Well considering people took it under the pretence of 7pps for 100%, 3pps for 30% is much less. There's also the possibility of lowering it to 25-20-15% for 3pps. I was not shown any statistics about how 'powerful' it was or how it was 'totally unbalanced'. I might understand if it really was 100% but it wasn't.

 

The perk was never intended to increase stuff by 100%. I don't really know how that thing ended up being there, and I always thought it said the right number. So no one was cheated or anything (cheating implies that I kept it hidden).

Nevertheless, I never liked this perk, because it can be abused and it puts too many rare items in the game. And the irony is, the chance of making some of the rare stuff and the drops of some rare stuff is going to be decreased the next update (this has been already implemented before the bitching about the artificer and I will explain the changes more after the update). So it would have been in your best advantage to keep your mouth shut instead of complaining about this perk, because it would have made you rich (again, I will explain more at the next update).

[conavar]

Ok, tell you what.

I am going to remove that perk from the wraith, and automatically give back to everyone those precious 7 PPs.

 

I didn't like that perk anyway, it was totally unballanced, and way too powerful.

 

Of course, this takes some time to fix, so the update that was supposed to come tomorrow will be delayed by a week or so (I have other things to do as well).

 

 

And this is fare how ???? Just because a few ppl dont like the perk , everyone else who does like it has to suffer . seriously nice to see the rest of the community who posted to get rid of the perk only thinking about themselves.

 

 

The problem isnt with " I was told 50% and its only 30% " the problem is people havent made loads and loads of enhanced essies. If they had the 30% wouldnt be an issue .

Its like not winning the lottery and then wanting your money back and not only that wanting the winners to return there winnings as well .

 

 

 

Nevertheless, I never liked this perk, because it can be abused and it puts too many rare items in the game. And the irony is, the chance of making some of the rare stuff and the drops of some rare stuff is going to be decreased the next update (this has been already implemented before the bitching about the artificer and I will explain the changes more after the update). So it would have been in your best advantage to keep your mouth shut instead of complaining about this perk, because it would have made you rich (again, I will explain more at the next update).

 

 

Need I say more apart from once again for the minority whinging Thanx from the rest of us well done

[Entropy]

There were quite a few people complaining, more than those not complaining.

Nevertheless, like I said, I never liked that perk (except for in the beginning, when I implemented it and didn't have the experience I have now about ingame economies). So from my point of view, it is good that it's going.

Maybe (and this is a big maybe) I will make some cape in the future, very rare and requiring nexus 10 or so to wear.

[conavar]

Maybe (and this is a big maybe) I will make some cape in the future, very rare and requiring nexus 10 or so to wear.

 

IF << i know big if that is implemented in the future it will be a nice compromise for the people who did like this perk

 

 

Edit: better get some Enhanced Essies made before the perk goes and price rockets ( nxt complaint will be .. "not enough ingame ..price to high " lol

Edited February 5, 2007 by conavar

[ttlanhil]

or maybe instead of the cape, just do the bonus for high nexus thing that was talked about before? eg: when your nexii reaches twice what's needed for something (or maybe it's 2 over, say, since some of the essences would get around this) you get an extra 20%

[conavar]

or maybe instead of the cape, just do the bonus for high nexus thing that was talked about before? eg: when your nexii reaches twice what's needed for something (or maybe it's 2 over, say, since some of the essences would get around this) you get an extra 20%

 

 

How would that work ?

 

Since essences dont require a nexus to be made, unless a seperate Alch nexus was made !! which is more work for the Dev's i would imagine than a cape

[Entropy]

That will work only for some items.

[Scyth]

Meh. I knew this will happen ever since I took the first glance on this thread. Seriously, I have no idea how the numbers behind the stuff do work, but I think I understand completely how Ent works, so to say. This is exactly what happened in the last big vial-whining thread as well, when the final result was that the bad changes stayed, plus the planned positive counter-balance (minor mana giving 10 mana points) disappeared as well.

Anyway, I dont have the arti perk, but I fancied experimenting with it later in the future, not much because of the EFE-stuff, but getting an increased chance on the more advanced weapons and armors whenever my manu gets up there, just like Celticlady does. I enormously liked the idea for example, when the glovy swords manuing was implemented, and even more when the chance for rare weapons and armors came in.

But aside from that, we all will feel the bad sides of this soon on the market I think.. Think like this: even if the artificier would have been complete BS, giving ZERO pct. extra chance, it STILL would have influenced the peoples expectations, and thus the price. Simple psychology, just like how lottery works, you get an extra ticket to have increased chance, the arti works that way, that with it the people are more likely to gather many resources for efe, ele, because they expect they would make more rares, even if they actually dont.. Now with artificier gone, people who had it before will be less likely to sit down and make tons of FEs, only making that many that they need at the moment, thus decreasing the chance of EFEs even more, and so the EFE price will go up again. We all will feel this, fighter, manuer no matter what. I dont think this change will help the other probs people are complaining nowadays either; the no rosto day seemed to show people pk less becouse its so hard to raise money for rostos or stuff to lose in a second, now if EFE will cost 6-8k, how will that help people pk more ?

 

Anyway. Ent, I know this is most probably late, especially that you dont like that perk, but Id still ask you to reconsider this change. You said much more people bitched than those who didnt, well consider that too, that for one, this thread been started just yesterday, as I see from timestamps, in the middle of night in Europe. Then the debate went on at the evening and night again, when many people dont read the forums, but, well, play the game. Secondly as I wrote in the beginning, there are people like me, who just doesnt like to participate in whinefests like this one, knowing that nothing good can come out of it anyway, so they just are silent and hoping that the thread will just disappear soon due to lack of interest

[sKuller]

The art perk has been one of my fave perks, i was lucky enough to question it's value when i first started, and was told that what the encyc said wasn't really "double chance" but you will have more of a chance with getting that EFE than normal...so i got it, and have never looked back, 3-4 years on and and i'm still hugging it if it goes with the next update i will be upset but this is a beta game and we are the eternal testers so such is life

[Entropy]

Meh. I knew this will happen ever since I took the first glance on this thread. Seriously, I have no idea how the numbers behind the stuff do work, but I think I understand completely how Ent works, so to say. This is exactly what happened in the last big vial-whining thread as well, when the final result was that the bad changes stayed, plus the planned positive counter-balance (minor mana giving 10 mana points) disappeared as well.

 

Yep, and you'd think people would learn..

It almost happened again with the summoning stones, I was really planing to put them under crafting, due to many top summoners bitching. Eventually, I decided to let them under summoning, with the condition that the bitchers will pay a fine (some of them did, some of them didn't and other's paid their fine).

 

Anyway, since it seems that there are people that really like this perk, I decided to implement the cape in a few weeks (it will require human nexus 10, and will be relatively rare, as a monster drop). I also hope that the fighters that will get the drops will NOT sell it to the people who bitched on this thread.

[Suessie]

Many, many thanks to all the people whining here about the artificer perk - congratulation to you all.

 

Now my beloved perk will removed from the game - I took it from the beginning and took it after a reset, and this perk was always fair to me.

 

Bravo

 

PS sorry for the post, but I'm really angry now.

[smalul]

I decided to implement the cape in a few weeks (it will require human nexus 10, and will be relatively rare, as a monster drop). I also hope that the fighters that will get the drops will NOT sell it to the people who bitched on this thread.

I see a problem here - fighters already have high human nexus, so they probably won't mind raising it to 10 (for future weapons and armor), and they will use the cape themselves to make "simple rare" items, like EFEs, and then sell them to people who need them. I suggest you set this cape to human nexus 7 and artificial nexus 7, so now people would have to put 14 ppts into their nexuses to use the perk in a cape form.

[eagleprince]

Meh. I knew this will happen ever since I took the first glance on this thread. Seriously, I have no idea how the numbers behind the stuff do work, but I think I understand completely how Ent works, so to say. This is exactly what happened in the last big vial-whining thread as well, when the final result was that the bad changes stayed, plus the planned positive counter-balance (minor mana giving 10 mana points) disappeared as well.

 

Yep, and you'd think people would learn..

It almost happened again with the summoning stones, I was really planing to put them under crafting, due to many top summoners bitching. Eventually, I decided to let them under summoning, with the condition that the bitchers will pay a fine (some of them did, some of them didn't and other's paid their fine).

 

Anyway, since it seems that there are people that really like this perk, I decided to implement the cape in a few weeks (it will require human nexus 10, and will be relatively rare, as a monster drop). I also hope that the fighters that will get the drops will NOT sell it to the people who bitched on this thread.

I completely understand Ent's actions, considering the provocations. The only thing is, that now instead of 7PPs + a fixed gc cost (2k iirc), this perk will now cost 10 PP + fighter-defined cost! I suspect that the cape will cost rather more than 2k.

 

Another reason to be a bit more dipomatic with one's posts.

 

However, may I suggest that the higher nexus requirement should not be human? Perhaps Artificial?

[Rehdon]

Hi all,

I can understand the need to make special items rare, what I don't understand (yet, I'm still a newbie when it comes to the game balance system) is why you need special items to make items that aren't special at all.

 

For instance, why do you need an EFE to make a pair of iron greaves, or other iron armor? One would say that these aren't particularly sophisticated items, it would make more sense IMHO to require EFEs to be used with special metals, starting from titanium, and other special objects. If the problem lies in the defense bonus granted by those items, it could just be lowered, which also makes sense: armor protecting vital body areas should grant a much higher defense value, so f.i. greaves should give much less than helms and torso armors.

 

Hope this isn't taken as "whining", I'm genuinely interested in how the game works.

 

Rehdon

 

PS By the way, it would be nice to have a separate window, with a human body like outline, where to put things you're wearing. See many traditional RPGs.

[eagleprince]

Hi all,

I can understand the need to make special items rare, what I don't understand (yet, I'm still a newbie when it comes to the game balance system) is why you need special items to make items that aren't special at all.

 

For instance, why do you need an EFE to make a pair of iron greaves, or other iron armor? One would say that these aren't particularly sophisticated items, it would make more sense IMHO to require EFEs to be used with special metals, starting from titanium, and other special objects. If the problem lies in the defense bonus granted by those items, it could just be lowered, which also makes sense: armor protecting vital body areas should grant a much higher defense value, so f.i. greaves should give much less than helms and torso armors.

 

Hope this isn't taken as "whining", I'm genuinely interested in how the game works.

 

Rehdon

 

PS By the way, it would be nice to have a separate window, with a human body like outline, where to put things you're wearing. See many traditional RPGs.

I think you will find that this is a natural phase of anything beta.

 

When I started playing only a year ago, iron armour was THE top armour, so it was natural that they would require special or enriched items. Although I accept that time has overtaken that now, I don't think it is feasible to change the formulas at this stage. In any case, it simply means those items of armour are no longer worth making and will just die out naturally, which is why everyone at DP arena has full steel or titanium arour

 

Edit: Fixed grammar/spelling.

Edited February 5, 2007 by EaglePrince