Vista

[Ornitorrinco]

Linux isn't a replacement for Windows.

Operating Systems aren't religions.

Deal with it.

[Cycloonx]

wow, they finally copied what has been in *nix for how many years?

 

Well in some way I also see this as a lame comment. It's not because a system had it ages ago no one else is allowed to implent it in his system. Although some people like to blow this up on the internet and it's like vista changes are only no more adminstration rights and a better look.

 

Although I agree with the most things of your posts. And I can work on both, I work regulary on linux at school, but at home: No thx.

[ttlanhil]

And as ttlanhil stated, linux systems are already widely spread and there's no viruses. Maybe because there are less security faults in linux than in windows...

there have been a few. not many, because of the built-in security in the design (not just the implementation), but there have been some.

there have also been worms, which have hit servers hard... both *nix and windows servers (you can guess which is hit more often, but it's not as big a difference as the *nix people would like)

 

in both cases, it requires a security hole in order to work. historically, *nix has been better about finding and plugging these, but they still exist, and will continue to do so (perfect software isn't likely to happen. it'd cost too much)

[Cycloonx]

Well the thing is also that most viruses are made to get people's passwords, bankaccounts, w/e they can abuse. Why whould a virus writer put a lot of effort in finding a bug in linux where like 3% of all computers is running (I dunno it's 3%, just a random number) instead of searching bugs in windows where they can use it on 90% of all other computers?

 

Linux might be more secure, but it can't be 100% safe, it's still the work of a normal human.

Edited February 9, 2007 by Cycloonx

[ttlanhil]

wow, they finally copied what has been in *nix for how many years?

Well in some way I also see this as a lame comment. It's not because a system had it ages ago no one else is allowed to implent it in his system

not the way it was intended. to quote someone whose name I can't remember "Those who do not understand Unix are doomed to reinvent it, poorly". My point is that, after a couple of decades, microsoft has now included the same security mechanisms that have been working well in *nix. (they've also copied a lot of other stuff, but that's a different story).

I'm not saying they can't copy it. I'm saying they should have done it long ago. vista is probably the first version with enough built-in security that it can be put on the internet without a requirement of a firewall and antivirus (and spyware scanner, and whatever else). it shouldn't have taken this long to design security. my point is that their design decisions have been poor. and probably will be in many areas to come (and bad decisions happen in the open source world, yes, but usually people can't get away with it... no-one is forced to follow those ideas, and people can always fork the project and continue with a different design philosophy... but discussion amongst the developers is more even than in a corporate structure of managers, designers, coders, and the poor users)

 

Well the thing is also that most viruses are made to get people's passwords, bankaccounts, w/e they can abuse.

far more common is to abuse the computer itself for mail-spam, or network attacks, but the basic point is okay

Why whould a virus writer put a lot of effort in finding a bug in linux where like 3% of all computers is running (I dunno it's 3%, just a random number)

lets try 50%. or for the desktop, about 10-20%, from memory, one of the large online OS checks

instead of searching bugs in windows where they can use it on 90% of all other computers?

two thirds of desktops, maybe. and yes, in the windows world, where you know what exploits will be available (windows, MS Office, IE, lookout, etc... vs all the different versions of the linux kernel, versions of OOo/Koffice/etc, all the web browsers, all the mail clients...), targeting them is easy.

but don't think people aren't looking for security holes in *nix. they are, in a big way. there's a huge number of bugs fixed each day... in the software the regular user hasn't even gotten yet, but the more experienced users have. this design philosophy or releasing the source often and early provides for review before it's packaged up for the regular user.

and unlike the closed source world (such as windows), people finding bugs is encouraged, because it's legal and helpful and they can be fixed quickly and easily before anyone suffers (some security bugs in windows have gone years after being announced before being fixed... and then only because someone finally exploited it)

Linux might be more secure, but it can't be 100% safe, it's still the work of a normal human.

right. but it's not that difficult (and in some cases, the default) for it to be the most secure general purpose operating system you can get (as rated by one of the intelligence agencies in the USA)

it's not perfect, and never will be, but it's doing pretty well for something people can get for free

[Cycloonx]

Well I guess we almost have the same thoughts about linux vs windows.

 

But don't think you think the biggest security issues in windows are caused due the big amount of features windows standard has? The more complex a system gets, the harder it is to make it bugfree. I know you can get a lot of features on linux too. But it's too hard to exploit those because people use a lot of different programs.

 

I would even like to compare this with cows nowadays. Almost every farmer is using the same sort of cows nowadays (even genetically all those cows are close to eachother). This also has a lot of negative effects, if a disease breakes out, a lot of cows will be vulnerable (compare it with viruses on windows). But the positive effect is that you can make better meat, better milk, and raise the production a lot. Then you also have those small farmers which use other kinds of cows (the linux users). They have a little less meat, less milk but they are less vulnerable to diseases. So in the end both equals out eachother and each farmer has to check which cows he prefers on his farm (btw this is reality, a good and strong disease could kill a lot of our cows ).

[Ornitorrinco]

i simply don't use Linux because i can't play my own games on it, and if i can it takes a lot of time/effort to run them

package-manager-install 'wine'.

double-click windows executable. (note)

 

for many windows programs and games, that's enough to do it. you may get a few percent slowdown, but that's not really a big problem

alternatively, there are a lot of games available for linux, some ported from windows, which may be available from your package manager

 

Note: this assumes you're using kde/gnome and one of the distros that sets up the association... otherwise you'd have to go to console and 'wine program-name.exe'

Yea and make sure to pimp the hell out of KDE to make it look like XP, so it feels like you're actually using Windows amirite?

[wexy]

More people on Linux = more games for Linux, it's how it works.

 

Btw. comparing OSs on the base of what games each can run is like.. no comment.

[Schmurk]

More people on Linux = more games for Linux, it's how it works.

It could be nice if it could work like that but I'm not sure it is the case...

I don't know how it works at all but sometimes I wonder if game companies don't touch royalties from MS for developing games only on their systems...

[Entropy]

Well, what I don't like about Linux is their close mindness when it comes to software and drivers. The whole GPL purity thingy.

For fuck's sake, they even considered removing the kernel support for binary drivers (such as the Nvidia and ATI drivers). In fact, they wanted to remove all the non GPL drivers. Fortuantely, Linus is a smart guy who sees beyound this short sighted 'puritanism'.

 

One other thing I don't like about Linux is the lack of consistency between distros. Some have a good software for one thing, others have good hardware detection, others have non free software, etc. But it is impossible to get one that has everything.

 

This is why I would hope that in the future, after XP is no longer used by people, to migrate to FreeBSD. Hopefully by then it will be more developed.

[BlacKat]

Windows Vista with the right Nvidia installed. The game still crashes just after the login window.

Edited February 9, 2007 by BlacKat

[Entropy]

Well, Nvidia still didn't finish their drivers for Vista.. I guess you will have to wait alittle, or install ubuntu on another partition.

[BlacKat]

As i'm installing more things on windows,i realise it'll take quite a while before they'll work properly. For instance i'm having trouble with yahoo messenger now,because its slower than ever and some menus wont load.

As for installing ubuntu on another partition,i did that the first time, didnt realise it was installed on a partition before windows. Ex. ubuntu was dev1 and windows was dev5. And "Surprize, Surprize" windows boot option was nowhere to be found at restart. Anyway long story short, nothing worked, i had to reinstall windows. Now we'll see how things go, we might just give ubuntu another try

[Cycloonx]

Windows bootloader is the crap. You just have to think about it when installing stuff

[nathanstenzel]

Entropy, I had to vote yes, but not for myself.

My wife's dad installed Windows Vista on the Guest computer and my nephew wants to play EL again. I therefor voted yes for him. I myself would prefer to get it going on Mandriva Linux 2007 without difficulty. It being a different flavor of Linux than you compile on, it seems to have issues.

 

Anyways, if you want testing assistance, you can let me know and I will do what I can.

[Entropy]

Actually, I have Mandriva 2007 on my laptop, and the static binary works great.

 

Anyway, is your nephew able to play EL on Vista?

[nathanstenzel]

Actually, I have Mandriva 2007 on my laptop, and the static binary works great.

 

Anyway, is your nephew able to play EL on Vista?

I tried to run it without compatibility mode and the screen was shifted half way off the bottom of the monitor.

I tried to run it in WinXP SP2 and Win 95/98 compat modes and the screen looked ok, but it crashed on game render.

I forget, do you need to install LibSDL on Windows for it to work? If so, that might be it.

Of course, the graphics is not OpenGL, but oh well....it will just be slow if it gets working.

 

The test EL candidate I am using is the standard client from the website, btw.

If you wish me to test anything else, let me know.

[Entropy]

You just need the DLLs in there, and the DLLs come with the game.

Well, it seems that we won't be supporting Vista then. Guess that means people playing EL should try some Linux distro, to upgrade to it after Vista takes over XP.

[nathanstenzel]

You just need the DLLs in there, and the DLLs come with the game.

Well, it seems that we won't be supporting Vista then. Guess that means people playing EL should try some Linux distro, to upgrade to it after Vista takes over XP.

At first, I suspected it was the firewall, since I noticed the character was listed as being online.

Does Windows Vista install drivers the same way?

[nathanstenzel]

Entropy. I just found out that the Windows Vista copy used here is a Beta version and not the paid version. Please keep that in mind. I am sorry I did not know this to tell you earlier.

The time and date...and year were way off on this computer too. I will do some things with it and see if anything changes. Of course then, it is still a Beta copy of Windows Vista.

Edited February 10, 2007 by nathanstenzel

[Stardark]

Im not minding to buy Vista.

But im for it to give it some support of course, we aint discriminating.

So I think some develooper should offer himself up for it ^^.

[Entropy]

Im not minding to buy Vista.

But im for it to give it some support of course, we aint discriminating.

So I think some develooper should offer himself up for it ^^.

 

It doesn't work this way. You can't 'volunteer' someone else to do it. For the time being we have far more important things to do than seeing why EL doesn't work with Vista. When over 50% of the people worldwide will use Vista, then we'll spend some time seeing if there is anything we can do to about it.

[Stardark]

true, but theres also support for Mac users, i only know 1 uses it...

[nathanstenzel]

Im not minding to buy Vista.

But im for it to give it some support of course, we aint discriminating.

So I think some develooper should offer himself up for it ^^.

Well, if somene wants to make a test program that really help.

It would need to have buttons for 'write to file', 'play sound', 'show screen without characters', 'show screen with characters', 'configure' and 'test connection'.

Of course, it would not actually play the game, but might let you walk around a single room/cave.

I figure we could use this to test all sort of things on all platforms.

Anyone wanting to test EL compatibility of computers or new maps, creatures, sounds, skeletons, spell effects, particle effects and etc could use the program.

[Entropy]

Like I said, it's not a priority for the time being. If Billy sends me a laptop with Vista preinstalled, I will fix it (if it is fixable), but otherwise I won't do anything about it for the time being.