Freya bot problem

[ttlanhil]

not only would that be a hassle to program, there are other problems.

for one, that's a lot of network traffic. it might not mean a lot for a single player on a broadband connection, but it'd mean a lot to the server.

for another thing, the players_online page (and the bots that read it) is currently the only way to see who's online without their permission for buddy list... this'd make it far easier for people to see others get on before those people are wanting conversations

[Kabuya]

not only would that be a hassle to program, there are other problems.

for one, that's a lot of network traffic. it might not mean a lot for a single player on a broadband connection, but it'd mean a lot to the server.

for another thing, the players_online page (and the bots that read it) is currently the only way to see who's online without their permission for buddy list... this'd make it far easier for people to see others get on before those people are wanting conversations

Ok,I not know all that,sorry I only try help

[jamincollins]

what percentage of people type the full name when PMing someone? what percentage wouldn't even be able to remember the full name of some of the people they want to PM?

I always try to type the full name when I PM someone. If someone can't remember the full name of the person they are trying to PM, do they really need to be PMing them? There is after all the chat log.

[Aislinn]

Ok,I not know all that,sorry I only try help

Don't be sorry, most of us don't know that. It's one of the best suggestions I've heard in a long time, it's just too bad we can't do it

[ttlanhil]

I always try to type the full name when I PM someone. If someone can't remember the full name of the person they are trying to PM, do they really need to be PMing them? There is after all the chat log.

you've never talked to someone with a long, possibly confusing name? or do you go grep your chat_log to find the name to PM them?

name completion, though it's not always accurate, is highly convenient

[jamincollins]

you've never talked to someone with a long, possibly confusing name? or do you go grep your chat_log to find the name to PM them?

The later.

[nathanstenzel]

heh. A chat log check to autocomplete followed by a check against a bot list which could be downloaded with the client and then appended after that would be cool.

Of course then, it would be yet another chore for the people programming the client. I think there are other Major improvements they are working on. Being able to have scarves and medallions and such visible will be sooooo cooooooool.

The list could be compiled and autocomplete could be put into the website of someone that wishes to use it.

[ttlanhil]

well, for the short term, the client has a list of names already... it's part of tab-completion. try it out:

/<ctrl+space>

and ctrl+space over and over to cycle between names

of course, that only finishes names the client has stored, and doesn't stop the server further completing the name if the person isn't online

[LabRat]

It occurs to me that the client already has the cure somwehat:

type in the standard PM beginning eg:

/lab

then press ctrl-space - name completion will fill in the full name if your client has seen that player (I know it works for chat channels, I haven't checked if it works with people seen in the local area too - if not it will be an easy patch)

 

I just did this for

/z

and got approximately 20 names.

 

I know this won't help freyababe if freya is offline, but it will help vice versa if someone wants to PM freyababe easily.

 

Edit: Oh ttl just said that too :/ I should have posted when I came up with the idea a short while earlier instead of tidying up

Edited February 4, 2007 by LabRat

[nathanstenzel]

Wow. ttlanhil, that is yet another feature I didn't know about.

 

Oh a slight adjust to the server's name recognition would work and therefore make my previous recommendations not necessary whatsoever except to help tell which bot or which player you are pming....which ttlanhil's advice cuts down on that.

 

The New suggestion is for any name with a "_" before the name...or some other character if player names with "_" at the beginning already exist...."bot_" at the beginning if necessary to a prompt for the server to only check for bots and not players.

 

Wait....do all the platforms have an easy "\" key? Maybe "//" could autocomplete player name and "\\" could autocomplete bot names.

 

Of course, I still think this is lower priority than some of the other stuff.

[ttlanhil]

Wow. ttlanhil, that is yet another feature I didn't know about.

there's a lot in the client few people know about. then someone will say something that reminds one of the people who saw the code about it, and we get it coming to the forums, where a few people will see it, then it'll be forgotten again in a few weeks

Wait....do all the platforms have an easy "\" key? Maybe "//" could autocomplete player name and "\\" could autocomplete bot names.

except the client doesn't know the difference. heck, the client doesn't even know there is a difference. to the client, the only diff is an extra character at the start of the name which is used in setting text colours Edited February 4, 2007 by ttlanhil

[scafativ]

The New suggestion is for any name with a "_" before the name...or some other character if player names with "_" at the beginning already exist...."bot_" at the beginning if necessary to a prompt for the server to only check for bots and not players.

 

Putting an underscore as a prefix is very unesthetic, and the bot_ prefix interferes with bots who are attempting to fill a role playing niche'. Moreover, if everone had to type an additional 4 characters to communicate with bots, the complaining would have quite a lot more mass than the complaints in this thread.

 

The problem is not constrained to bots, so I'm unclear why there are solutions proposed that would only attempt to fix the issue with bots. I have a guild member that had a NameNumber combo, while another player had just the name. I sometimes pmed the wrong player. I got over it.

 

scaf

[DragonCairn]

So, what I hear from the bot owners is that we should all have our characters named pc_<name> and then we won't interfere with their continued practice.

 

Yes, I understand typing 4 additional characters is a massive burden to those of us who interact with bots. Heck, I'm sure just a b_<name> would be greatly contested as overly burdensome. So, in the interest of making life easier - could we request all new players to please create their name with pc_ as the prefix? (pc standing for Player Character) This would ensure they don't get BOT requests which are much more prevalent than PM's intended for other players.

 

It only takes ONCE fer a person PM'n me and want'n DragonStorm19 to realize they made a mistake. But if there were a bot with a similar name, it'd drive me nuts when it went offline. Why? Let's face it, BOTS are the most popular folks in EL. If we did a summary as to how many PMs they get from unique sources vs how many PMs a player gets from unique sources - we could easily see that the only protection we players have is to choose a name that is overly unique and not likely to be a Bot.

 

Therefore, I urge that guidance be introduced to players when they first register to be overly conscientious of their name choice, and to review a listing of Registered bots to ensure their name choice does not promote this type of activity. In other words - enlighten the user prior to their selection of a name that these things can and will occur. I for one would accept any free name change offered that would merely append my name to the prefix pc_ if any bot related traffic started to come my way.

 

EDIT: So, I'm told this isn't coming across as I'd like it to, I'm just showing the otherside of the issue. If Bots and Players must compete for name space it quickly becomes apparent that players are going to be at a disadvantage when a bot goes offline. If the only solultion bot owners will tolerate is that players should change their names, then I'm guesing that many of us will choose to either try to ignore the hundreds of PMs each day, quit playing, or make Entropy rich at a rate of 5$ per player. Sorry Ent, but you can guess already what most of them will do, can't you?

Edited March 26, 2007 by DragonCairn

[Terrorgrim]

I personally would have said that the overall responsibility lies with the bot owner. The players are the ones to create the bots, as well as being responsible for keeping them running, making purchases etc. Doesn't that mean that the player's should get priority over said bots? Simply adding a prefix to the bot name such as B_ would suffice, or perhaps even shop_ or trade_ if the bot is there for that purpose?

 

 

EDIT: Long and short of it, the game is for the PLAYER and not the BOT. Players should be free to choose their name without worry of spam from a bot's custom. I don't see the harm in adding a short B_ to the beginning of a bot name. It would save players a lot of hassle if this became common practice

Edited March 26, 2007 by Terrorgrim

[Learner]

I personally would have said that the overall responsibility lies with the bot owner. The players are the ones to create the bots, as well as being responsible for keeping them running, making purchases etc. Doesn't that mean that the player's should get priority over said bots? Simply adding a prefix to the bot name such as B_ would suffice, or perhaps even shop_ or trade_ if the bot is there for that purpose?

 

 

EDIT: Long and short of it, the game is for the PLAYER and not the BOT. Players should be free to choose their name without worry of spam from a bot's custom. I don't see the harm in adding a short B_ to the beginning of a bot name. It would save players a lot of hassle if this became common practice

Keep in mind that the bot Freya did exist before FreyaBabe. I would have agreed with you on this if that wasn't the case. We did recently have a new Bot that was causeing problems with another player (typo issue, not a shorter name), and the bot owner did change the name of the bot to prevent problems.

[DragonCairn]

Do we have a way of advising players on how to obtain a list of all used names? This may allow for players that were thinking of creating a name similar to another players name to change their idea. I know there's the who's online listing, but is there a complete listing, if so where? {Sorry I'm not trying to be harassing here, but am genuinely curious.}

 

Without such a listing, we do tend to step on toes.

[Learner]

Do we have a way of advising players on how to obtain a list of all used names? This may allow for players that were thinking of creating a name similar to another players name to change their idea. I know there's the who's online listing, but is there a complete listing, if so where? {Sorry I'm not trying to be harassing here, but am genuinely curious.}

 

Without such a listing, we do tend to step on toes.

There is no complete listing available since that is 130k player names and counting.

[foncEmerlin]

hey yall I am a shopper and a friend both as well as a bot owner

 

I pm my friend freyababe all the time even when she isn't online and guess what when freya <c2 bot informs me i have missed freyababe i say "well dang" thats ussually my reply back to freya quickly followed with /freya inv lol i mean i did have her there on me pm anyway right

 

I do understand it can get annoying lol

 

but i can tell you this long post going way out there and kinda turning sour is not why she posted yall.

 

I know her well and use the bot often

 

I think the thing she mostly wanted was for people to be polite and kind if you do pm freyebabe instead of the bot say hi be kind she is a wonderful player and I should know I pm her all the time

 

[LaNora]

I keep PMing a guard bot that threatens to pull out my pancreas - and I don't even know what my pancreas is!!1!1"

 

A gland situated near the stomach that secretes a digestive fluid into the intestine through one or more ducts and also secretes the hormone insulin.

 

 

I would never support this idea. People are very attached to names, it is an extention of their identity for a lot of people, myself included.

 

 

well, if i can put my 2gc in here, my name is my real middle name. imagine my surprise when i 'met' Llynara, which is pronounced close to my name, no problems with pm's because the spelling is different but it does make for friendly local chat and friendly pm's which is kinda nice...

 

but on second thought doesn't have much to do with Freyababe's problem since i have not caught her conversing with Freya....in which case i would definitely call DrKlipenschtein for them!!!

[BopoH]

Why not to use better hash function at server side ? Server do not compare strings, right ? I'd personally store hashes of strings those will be compared often. Case sensitivity is not a problem though, you do the string case insensitive and then make a hash from it , after that you store the hash and string together. On comparisons hash-table will be looked through (RB-tree algorithm is a good choice for that), on data-exchange - strings can be provided if required. One simple and good hash-function is provided by gcc compiler too. this func can be found in g++*/ext/hash_fun.h header. Here is a its source code:

inline size_t
 __stl_hash_string(const char* __s)
 {
unsigned long __h = 0;
for (; *__s; ++__s)
  __h = 5*__h + *__s;
return size_t(__h);
 }

Edited March 26, 2007 by BopoH

[Learner]

Why not to use better hash function at server side ? Server do not compare strings, right ? I'd personally store hashes of strings those will be compared often. Case sensitivity is not a problem though, you do the string case insensitive and then make a hash from it , after that you store the hash and string together. On comparisons hash-table will be looked through (RB-tree algorithm is a good choice for that), on data-exchange - strings can be provided if required. One simple and good hash-function is provided by gcc compiler too. this func can be found in g++*/ext/hash_fun.h header. Here is a its source code:

inline size_t
 __stl_hash_string(const char* __s)
 {
unsigned long __h = 0;
for (; *__s; ++__s)
  __h = 5*__h + *__s;
return size_t(__h);
 }

Entropy considers it a feature that you can use just the first part of the player name in order to PM someone. That was designed in on purpose. Trying to do something like a hashing function removes a feature he desires.

[Guest Annatira]

I speak from personal experience here:

 

Anna the bot and I have a long standing acquaintance. Whenever she is offline I receive many (read dozens) of pms for inv, loc, etc. When Anna was offline for almost 2 weeks last Christmas, I suspect the pms were in the three digit number.

 

I don't know who came first, Anna or Annatira, and have decided it doesn't matter. Using it as an opportunity to interact has paid off enormously for me. I'm allied with BEER guild because of it, know many of their players (and Anna's customers) well and actually have some fun with the whole issue.

 

Annatira

[Guest baneazaghal]

Well, just recently I've tried to PM player named "pain", and (s)he wasn't online (sorry for uncertainty about gender ). Now, instead of getting your usual "No player is in the game with the name of pain" the server had done auto-completion and my PM was sent to a player called "Painfu". Now, there are situations when the name given to server doesn't exist, but a longer one does, and in this case it's rather ok for that person to get a message (I think that some people actually use this feature). But in the case I described I think it shouldn't happen. So, if the player is not online but exists, send the PMer a nice "No player is in the game with the name of blah" message. If the player doesn't exist, do the auto-completion.

Besides, do you want your PMs to end up in wrong hands (such as hyperspace bag location)?

So, what do you think about this one?

[coch]

Entropy considers it a feature that you can use just the first part of the player name in order to PM someone. That was designed in on purpose. Trying to do something like a hashing function removes a feature he desires.

 

I consider a misfeature wanting to send a PM to one person and the server deciding on his own to turn in this message to a different person because the former wasn't online, not to say unrespectful of players' privacy. Yeah even if you say that someone sending pm's to an offline player is dumb enough to deserve it. I find it simply wrong that a name could be arbitrarily expanded to whatever other name are there, without a check from (and for) the player, like with ctrl-space. And obviously if both systems coexist you can't expect people to use the most cumbersome one calling on their good intentions to avoid accidental spam.

 

What baneazaghal said is also very sound.

[Torg]

I personally PM Trin and several friends with just the first 4 characters of their name. Occasionally I do end up PMing someone else and I say sorry and move on.

 

If this feature was to be removed I would be rather annoyed as it is simply a means to make things faster.

 

I do understand that it can be really annoying for people who constantly get PM'd (having a name similar to a bot etc), but for those few I would think they have the choice to deal or get a name change. For the general population of EL an occasional misdirected PM isn't going to kill anyone. Remember it is just a game. ;-)