Buyable nexuses

[Grozni]

My vote goes to NO.

 

Cause its not affecting all people equally.

 

Fighters have interest in buying them, makers dont. Crafters, potioners, manufacters, summoners already used PPs on nexuses they need, fighers didnt. For example, high level fighters didnt spent PPs on nexuses, cause that is their way of playing, and now they could start doing anything with hell of a emu.

 

Poll also shows that opinion on this is divided almost equal, and on posts you can see that most of the makers are for no, and fighers voted yes. That shows who benefit from this.

 

It would be equal if all people could buy around 35 PPs, and spent it on any nexus or attribute they want, so this way all people could benefit from this. And then, why 35? Why not 100 or 200?

 

Keep it as is now!

 

Or make that taking any PP back from Wraith cost 50 hydros, that would be much better.

[Lotheneil]

I generally like the idea.

I think a great idea is that higher nexus than neccesary to be an advantage (perhaps a chance to make 2 items instead of one in alchemy or higher chance of special items in manu?).

Possibility of buying nexus for hydro bars and those advantages should be implemented together in my oppinion - this way even people who have quite a lot of nexii already would benefit from that as well.

I don't think that mass buying of hydro bars are going to be a large problem - the price of them will raise right after the update, I think it'll end up with 15-20k or even more.

How about being able to buy only one nexus per 2 weeks / 1 month or so? Or each nexus being more expensive than the last one? (eg. 50 hydro for first, 60 for the next one and so on)

[scarr]

new players will have advantage ;(

 

i myself would never spend PPs on nexuses, if i could just buy them..

[Knuckles]

Will there be a limit on amount of Nexus PP's allowed? I know it cost's alot per one PP/Nexus, but I think I would go get around 10 of them, lol.

[Blodoks]

Voted NO: I have 35 pp in Nexus.

[Ice]

I also voted NO!

 

The people that will benefit form this the most are the straight line fighters that spend 7 in Human nexus and maybe 2 In inorganic... I guess a few might splurge and have spent 4 in Vegetal also. These players already put most of their PP's in P/C, and could now start "buying" the other nexus they want. If you do this it will not be fair to everyone unless a global PP reset is done, and this will not be fair to people that have just reset in the past few weeks. Straight line fighters can easily pk and sell/trade their prize for the bars. To those players that have always wanted to do everything, or already spent the Nexus PP's for being able to do all skills this would be very unfair. YES, all the all arounders could reset and build their levels back up, but that's not fair either. The fighters would not need to reset.

[simon]

ok, granted... you spend millions of gc to get a nexus of 5 in some skill. What good is it to you? You will still be lvl 0 manufactuing but with nexus 5. Still you need to spend hours on end, hundreds or thousands of them JUST to get the levels needed to make any good items.

People who have 'specialized' already will not be affected at all, only if there are new items added which need 1 more nexus than you need. But all in all, the people who actually buy the nexuses will not really affect the market. 1 less sr/he/ae buyer. Is that such a "BIG" loss? People will be buying a lot more steel bars/fe/s2e and who profits from that? The "under 120 oa lvl" alchers/manuers/miners. The end product goes to someone who can't be bothered with killing stuff for 50 hours just to get that elusive 1 pp for a nexus which was recently added...

I voted yes, because... It gives you an option of getting a 'bonus' nexus for hard work.

 

P.S. the 'buy s2e to circumvent the s2e makers' was directed towards the blacksmith which sells s2e at 1k each. s2e prices are already nearing the 1k price so most people who are in a rush and can be bothered in wasting 500kgc on the hyd bars will buy them from there.

Maybe you could raise the s2e price there to say... 2k?

 

Nook1e

[Jarld]

I voted yes. Such an option should boost the market.

 

I'm also one of those who spent much pickpoints in nexus, and I know that not only nexus are required to be good at some skill, but also lots of training. The "ebul PKers" who buy nexus will still need us to make the high level stuff...

 

 

Edit: I was writing my post when Nook1e did post... looks like we had the same idea!

Edited November 3, 2006 by Jarld

[EvilJoe]

I vote YES. If this is actually done, I might actually come back to EL...

 

For the people who have already invested PPs in nexuses, why not make it possible to pay 50 hydro bars and reallocate a PP from attribs/perks -> nexuses?

 

Even if you can't reallocate PPs, I still wouldn't worry so much about this being unfair. 50 hydro bars, or 500kgc, is a LOT. It takes something like 80-100 hours to earn that much money, in which time you could be training instead of harvesting... In 80 hours, assuming 200k exp per hour for a reasonably high level fighter, you could get 16 million OA exp (which is the required exp to go from OA 142->143), 16 million att/def exp, and like 80kgc in profit from monster drops.

 

In the time it'd take to get blodok's 35 nexuses (2900 hours), you could train and get 580-800 million OA exp, which would put you somewhere around OA 153 to OA 160. (#1 in the game, as far as i know) Not to mention you'd have one scary a/d.

 

Oh yeah... Also, for the cost of 12 nexuses (6 million gc), you could sell the gc for $1500 and buy a top character ;p Even for just 1-2 million gc, you could buy a pretty high lvl char.

Edited November 3, 2006 by korosu

[Scratch]

I like the idea of the higher level people blowing big bank on nexus. A fool & their gold coin are soon parted.Take a negative perk or reset if you don't like your attributes, but hey, whatever rox your boat.

[WizzKidd]

You know, I have thought ALOT about this since yesterday. Take my character for example..

 

Harvest: 87

Atk/Def: 90's

Alchemy: 77

Manu: 52

 

With one trip to the iron mine, I can make 70 steel bars. 16 are needed for S2E. so, with 3 trips to iron mine I can make 13 S2E. This means that it takes me about one hour to earn a hydro bar since, I can make the S2E, harvest the ores (fight off atkers) and make the bars. My high emu has ALOT to do with that.

 

So, I wonder how long does it take someone with say 400 or so emu to do the same? 2-3 hours? so, for me it would take about 50 hours to get 50 hydro bars (maybe a little more gathering coal and what not too). But at this ratio, it will take the 400 emu person 150 or more hours to earn 1 point.

 

This spread seems large, and this idea seems like a perk for the powerful.

"the strong get stronger, and continue to opress the weak"

 

So, I change my yes vote to a no please (not that it matters tho )

Edited November 3, 2006 by WizzKidd

[Fourier]

How does the nexus purchase work if you reset? Do you loose the nexus? It seems to me that the only way for a high level character to take advantage of this is to effectively trade a purchased nexus for an attribute. The only way I know to do this is through a reset.

 

4

[EvilJoe]

This spread seems large, and this idea seems like a perk for the powerful. "the strong get stronger, and continue to opress the weak"

 

Well, I think obviously someone with 400 EMU won't be bothering to gather 50 hydro bars... They could gain an OA level in much less time. As Ent said, one reason for this feature is *because* getting PPs is such a pain for high level players:

One other problem is that high level players (OA over 120) have to work weeks for just another pick point. And eventually, there comes a time when it takes forever to wait for the next PP.

 

Even if it only takes you 50 hours to make a hydro bar, that is still a lot of work, AND once you buy nexuses, you can't ever reset your char without throwing them away.

 

Fourier: yea you do lose the nexus if you reset. This feature Does have some advantage for a high lvl char, because you can invest nexuses in skills you wouldn't have wasted PPs on. For example, a pure PKer could now do manuing as well. Of course, if all you want is to transfer purchased nexuses to attributes, then yes, you do have to reset... That's why I think, why not just have an option to pay 50 hydro bars to reclaim PPs from nexuses? That way it's fair for everyone.

Edited November 3, 2006 by korosu

[Blodoks]

I vote YES. If this is actually done, I might actually come back to EL...

 

In the time it'd take to get blodok's 35 nexuses (2900 hours), you could train and get 580-800 million OA exp, which would put you somewhere around OA 153 to OA 160. (#1 in the game, as far as i know) Not to mention you'd have one scary a/d.

 

Oh yeah... Also, for the cost of 12 nexuses (6 million gc), you could sell the gc for $1500 and buy a top character ;p Even for just 1-2 million gc, you could buy a pretty high lvl char.

 

I'm Blodoks not Stakhanov.

Btw, I'll never sell my char and I'll never buy a char... I'm already the top: I won a pk map contest, I killed LuciferX and so on. I builded Blodoks thinking to every step and before summoning stones it was well balanced to do all, pk included.

I also accepted my mistakes, like 3 pp in reasoning/vitality, because I consider the reset a defeat.

[Darwin2M]

Why not make it just a pick point... to be spent on Nexus or anything else a pick point will buy? That way fighters can buy nexi and craf/manu/alc/etcerer can buy physique and coord or otherwise. This gives equal benefit to all who have worked long and hard to develop characters that are specialized (either low nexi and lots of p/c or lots of nexi and low p/c) and want to branch out and try something different.

[McLane]

omg, 7 pages... no time to read that all, maybe tomorrow with coffee... so if this was already posted, feel free to delete my post...

 

how about each nexus level costs you 5 hydro bars more?

so let's say

human 1 = 5 bars

human 2 = 10 bars

human 3 = 15 bars

human 4 = 20 bars

human 5 = 25 bars

human 6 = 30 bars

----------------------

bars to get to human 6 = 105 bars

 

still expensive but not cheap... but cheaper than 300 bars for human 6 for example

[Happy_G]

i dont see y ppl say "since we cant buy PP and its only nexus then i voted yes" is this not effectively freeing up your next OA lvl PP so u dont have to put it into the nexus.

 

so i get an OA lvl, i want a nexus so i buy it with hydro bars and then stick my PP into P/C/W

 

the way i see it is that since the hydro point went into nexus it freed a PP to go into somethings else, efectively "buying" the PP for P/C/W

 

edit: above post = bad idea, way to cheap for 6 nexus'

Edited November 3, 2006 by Happy_G

[CelticLady]

This spread seems large, and this idea seems like a perk for the powerful. "the strong get stronger, and continue to opress the weak"

 

Well, I think obviously someone with 400 EMU won't be bothering to gather 50 hydro bars... They could gain an OA level in much less time. As Ent said, one reason for this feature is *because* getting PPs is such a pain for high level players:

One other problem is that high level players (OA over 120) have to work weeks for just another pick point. And eventually, there comes a time when it takes forever to wait for the next PP.

 

Even if it only takes you 50 hours to make a hydro bar, that is still a lot of work, AND once you buy nexuses, you can't ever reset your char without throwing them away.

 

Fourier: yea you do lose the nexus if you reset. This feature Does have some advantage for a high lvl char, because you can invest nexuses in skills you wouldn't have wasted PPs on. For example, a pure PKer could now do manuing as well. Of course, if all you want is to transfer purchased nexuses to attributes, then yes, you do have to reset... That's why I think, why not just have an option to pay 50 hydro bars to reclaim PPs from nexuses? That way it's fair for everyone.

 

Replying to the statement in bold above: Oh? My carry cap is 500. My OA level will be 100 in about 500k xp. I am almost constantly trying to produce hydro bars because I am a manufacturer(all-arounder). So yes, people with a lower carry cap do try to get hydro bars. And yes, it takes a long time. If my carry cap were higher it would take me much less time and I would be able to work on other things. But since I am not a fighter I didn't pump up my p/c (Yes, I am aware that some people who are not fighters have a high p/c. In general it is the fighters that raise their p/c though).

 

On the note of this being good for the economy, to an extent it would be. On the other hand when the price of hydro bars raises, will people pay more for the armor that requires those bars to produce? Or will I still hear "you are a rich manuer, I'm a poor pk'er. That is too much"? I am lucky if I can sell armor at cost, what will happen if hydro bars do goto 15-20k? Will people pay 90k+ for a steel plate torso?

 

Sure, I could reset, but I chose my pp placement very carefully based on how I wanted to play the game. I would like to pk. I never will be able to. Even if I took neg perks, I am still down the 31 pp I have in nexus(yes, some would carry over like Human and such). Why should a fighter or anyone who chose to add alot of pp into p/c be able to then work on another skill by buying the nexus? They can still be a pk'er 'and' work on another skill. Where as someone like me can't unless I reset.

 

I generally like the idea.

I think a great idea is that higher nexus than neccesary to be an advantage (perhaps a chance to make 2 items instead of one in alchemy or higher chance of special items in manu?).

Possibility of buying nexus for hydro bars and those advantages should be implemented together in my oppinion - this way even people who have quite a lot of nexii already would benefit from that as well.

I don't think that mass buying of hydro bars are going to be a large problem - the price of them will raise right after the update, I think it'll end up with 15-20k or even more.

How about being able to buy only one nexus per 2 weeks / 1 month or so? Or each nexus being more expensive than the last one? (eg. 50 hydro for first, 60 for the next one and so on)

 

You have got to be kidding about that, right? I spent 7 pp on Artificier Perk to get that.

 

At any rate, I think this whole thing is an endless debate. Some like it, some don't. Such is life.

[LadyReni]

I don't like this idea, I'd rather see nexus potions maybe, giving highest possible nexus ex. vegetal 6 for 5 minutes.

[ttlanhil]

Why not make it just a pick point... to be spent on Nexus or anything else a pick point will buy?

on one hand, that's buying stats, which is a Bad Thing, and will cause a lot of trouble (queue people complaining that spending US$ to buy items to sell for gc, in order to get levels, is unfair), plus major changes in how character development works.

 

On the other hand, the fact is that buying nexus is buying the ability to not spend a PP on nexus... it's roundabout, and somewhat limited (especially for older players), but buying nexus still ends up as more PP for stats, so it's still buying stats in my view

[Lotheneil]

I generally like the idea.

I think a great idea is that higher nexus than neccesary to be an advantage (perhaps a chance to make 2 items instead of one in alchemy or higher chance of special items in manu?).

Possibility of buying nexus for hydro bars and those advantages should be implemented together in my oppinion - this way even people who have quite a lot of nexii already would benefit from that as well.

I don't think that mass buying of hydro bars are going to be a large problem - the price of them will raise right after the update, I think it'll end up with 15-20k or even more.

How about being able to buy only one nexus per 2 weeks / 1 month or so? Or each nexus being more expensive than the last one? (eg. 50 hydro for first, 60 for the next one and so on)

 

You have got to be kidding about that, right? I spent 7 pp on Artificier Perk to get that.

 

 

Just a loose idea, I was thinking of a small bonus stacking with artificer perk. BTW. I have arti as well

Edited November 3, 2006 by Lotheneil

[Jezebelle]

I don't like this idea, I'd rather see nexus potions maybe, giving highest possible nexus ex. vegetal 6 for 5 minutes.

 

 

Oh Reni!! Thats a genius idea!! I love it!

 

Jez

[Vanyel]

Greetings,

honestly I dislike this idea completely. I would rather see some items (as suggested above) giving some nexus boost for short period. I'm strongly against buying any attributes/nexus/perks/pickpoints/related for in game or real world cash.

Such mechanisms devaluate the work put into developing your own character. It's easy to imagine that people that have lots of cash in game will just buy hydrogenium bars instead of making them. Thus it will be absolutely free pickpoints for them. What's more, I can easily imagine people buying stuff in EL on-line shop and exchanging them for the bars to gain even easier pickpoints.

In my most honest opinion it would affect the community and would not make any good for game, quite opposite it may do a lot of harm.

Regards,

Gilean

[Mar(c)]

@Happy_G:

It is freeing PP for p/c/w indeed, but not unlimited -- if the pickpoints were buyable with hydro bars, the amounts of extra P/C/W would be virtually unlimited.

That's why people say "since we cant buy PP and its only nexus then i voted yes".

 

 

@All people who say "I already got the nexi I want, so I vote no":

The question is NOT "is this a good idea for your character", BUT "is this a good idea for the game".

PLEASE stop thinking all (proposed) changes should benefit your character immediately, directly and above all more than other players' characters! PLEASE...

 

 

 

@The idea:

I don't like it much...

A pro might be a flourishing hydro production; if there's really demand for hydro bars because of this, the price might even rise instead of drop.

But, I don't see the "cooperative effect" of it.

Part of the argument is to increase the classlessness of the game: "EL was designed to be a classless game".

So one of the aims, the "cooperative effort between harvesters, alchemists, manufacturers (to some extent), potioners (for the potion of invisibility), PKers, crafters (for the rings), summoners (for protection against the PKers), and mages (invisibility, true sight)" would become even less effective than it already is.

You don't need more than 2 players (if not combined into one character): a high-level alch and a high-level manu; the needed harvest and magic (for tele-to-range) levels are easy enough to get (or: almost come naturally) for high-level mixers. The few dis and tele rings play a far from major role, and with those dis and tele rings there's no real need to be protected by fighters/summoners.

(And yes, you could make the bars with a team: working on 50 bars with 40 people together. But, it won't take any more or less time to make 100 hydro bars with 2 players, or 2000 hydro bars with 40 players -- the result is the same: 1 nexus per player.)

 

The idea as it is, buying nexuses for 50 hydro bars, is definately not bad... on the contrary!

The main aim, an even more classless game (as in: even less difference between characters), is not what I consider as being "a good thing".

 

I refrain from voting (for now).

 

Suggestion:

I'd rather see the classlessness of the game increase in some way that it's "easy to change from one skill to another" than "easy to become pr0 in every single skill".

IMO, "mainstream" items, spells and fighting abilities should be available for everyone (like the "classless" game we have now), but at some point characters should choose between being able to make special items, to cast offensive spells, to cast defensive spells, to fight with "ebul" items, etc. (just some possibilities).

And this choice is not final; it should be (relatively) easy to change your path.

I think of some karma (ebul--saintly) / affiliation (profession) system; not a linear, but a dual system.

(And with this, this nexus-for-hydro plan is perfectly fine, IMO.)

[ttlanhil]

@All people who say "I already got the nexi I want, so I vote no":

The question is NOT "is this a good idea for your character", BUT "is this a good idea for the game".

PLEASE stop thinking all (proposed) changes should benefit your character immediately, directly and above all more than other players' characters! PLEASE...

I don't need it, so it's of little value to me... so what? I don't need it.

A lot of older players, who put in the hard work, will be penalised by this, since they have to reset and lose a lot of it, or miss out... not a 'so what?' anymore. When I say that it's not of use to me, and explain why, that doesn't just mean my character. That means all players who have worked long and hard to get all the nexii they need

people, in large enough numbers, who this idea relatively-penalises, should be considered.

 

of course, the larger part of my vote is that it's purchasing of stats, which is a Bad Thing IMO... but the above is nonetheless part of my arguement