Buyable nexuses

[Shouja]

I'm not sure whether this point is relevant or not, but has anyone thought of the effect this might have on the newbies entering the game after the changes have been implemented?

 

More specifically, I'm concerned about whether this will create a dominant strategy for all newbies who want to become high-leveled all-arounders. They will not consider any other options except going for the skills which do not require nexuses at first and then buying the nexuses for other skills through hydro bars later, because that is clearly the most efficient way to go about spending pickpoints.

 

Do you want to encourage this kind of dominant strategy? Will this affect the game balance or types of players in the community?

 

(i.e. If the best way to spend pickpoints is increasing stats to gain levels through combat, magic and other non-nexus skills, will there be an increase in the population of new fighter/mages and a decrease in the population of new makers, over the course of the next year? Or do you think players will still choose their own playing style, regardless of how the pickpoint system works for/against them? In any case, what will happen to the resource flows in the community, considering that fighter/mages are consumers while makers are producers of resources?)

 

~Shouja~

Edited November 5, 2006 by Shouja

[Happy_G]

Or do you think players will still choose their own playing style, regardless of how the pickpoint system works for/against them?

~Shouja~

ppl will still use the old system, a newbie wont be able to get and make hydro bars w/o getting the nexus' unless they hire me or another person, i wouldnt mind the money and the experience for making them.

[Ikaris]

If they pay money (US dollars for stuff or characters) then ... they bought you more free game time...

 

I doubt there are enough high rollers that know EL exists to seriously effect your gameplay. Unless you are some sort of uber-scrag-bag-tag troll that has some sicko notion of annoying weaker players on a PK map...(oops ... that's 60% of PK'ers - the must be compensating for something nature left them with a substandard portion of) you probably don't much care or give a hoot that someone bought a powerful character. Let them do it ... and pay your continued FREE ride in EL.

[Dent]

Definately an interesting idea.

 

One problem I have with the whole argument of trickle down economics is it only works if there aren't too many shortcuts. At what point in the process of getting the bars can it be circumvented by GC or PK? I would be more than a bit annoyed if one of the high level players who needed an extra PP or two to pad his stats decided to PK for a bunch of ore. That is a huge investment in time and effort that is gone; and a bunch of GC, time and effort saved by the PKer.

 

As it is looking, though, I will only be putting my pick points into p/c/w. It is a nice thought that I will be able to buy any PP I need in the future for nexii. Heck, I may even try to organize a drive for bars to sell on ebay. Make some cash for myself and the guild, get some *free* PP and loads of anciliary exp on the side.

 

If it is organised well enough, I bet the entire market in bars could be cornered by an aggressive PK guild. All the nexii they could ever want, loads of ore or bars to sell for massive GC or $$, lots of PK exp, and even better the attention of the entire community on them for 'unfairly monopolizing a valuable resource'.

 

Good luck with it.

[Entropy]

One problem I have with the whole argument of trickle down economics is it only works if there aren't too many shortcuts. At what point in the process of getting the bars can it be circumvented by GC or PK? I would be more than a bit annoyed if one of the high level players who needed an extra PP or two to pad his stats decided to PK for a bunch of ore. That is a huge investment in time and effort that is gone; and a bunch of GC, time and effort saved by the PKer.

 

The only shortcut I see is buyign S2Es from the NPC, but it's more expensive than the market price, so only someone REALLY rich IRL would afford to do that.

Assuming no failures, you'd need 500 S2E swords+other ingredients + time to harvest/make the bars for a perk.

I am not sure what the USD to GC converison rate is (since we don't do that) but even with this shortcut it would be perhaps somewhere over 200 USD to buy those swords from the NPC.

[Atlantis]

One problem I have with the whole argument of trickle down economics is it only works if there aren't too many shortcuts. At what point in the process of getting the bars can it be circumvented by GC or PK? I would be more than a bit annoyed if one of the high level players who needed an extra PP or two to pad his stats decided to PK for a bunch of ore. That is a huge investment in time and effort that is gone; and a bunch of GC, time and effort saved by the PKer.

 

The only shortcut I see is buyign S2Es from the NPC, but it's more expensive than the market price, so only someone REALLY rich IRL would afford to do that.

Assuming no failures, you'd need 500 S2E swords+other ingredients + time to harvest/make the bars for a perk.

I am not sure what the USD to GC converison rate is (since we don't do that) but even with this shortcut it would be perhaps somewhere over 200 USD to buy those swords from the NPC.

I think the rate is generally about 3k gc per $, but I have not bought much in a while. (If you bought the swords from the NPC, about 3.3kgc each, it'd cost $5,000 a pp )

[Happy_G]

yikes, so with that info i dont think this will help the IRL rich ppl. so it should be pretty even. thanx for the numbers

 

edit: so now ppl should stop complaining about that

Edited November 6, 2006 by Happy_G

[Enki]

So the only thing left to complain about now is that people who spent a lot of pp's in nexuses get an disadvantage?

 

Could this be solved by taking 1 pp from every nexus a player has spent pp's in and free them before this update goes in?

 

In this way people who has spent pp's in all nexuses gets 6 pp's to replace and people who for example has spent pp's in 2 nexuses gets 2 pp's to replace. This would benefit all people, esp. those who spent a lot of pp's in nexuses.

 

edit: spelling

Edited November 6, 2006 by Enki

[Grozni]

At the same time ... how about a charge of 10 Hydro bars to move an existing pp from one category to another... would allow minor tweaks to your character's abilities without needing to reset. Of course any major change to your character ... would be hideously expensive ... thus resest then.

 

This is an interesting idea that we had for like 2 years now.

It might get implemented in the future, although doing so might piss off yet another group of people: "OMFG, the rich IRL people can now move all their PPs every day and take over all the markets with their evil IRL money".

 

Im interested is this still in future plans?

 

Cause there is some people which havent possibility on start to take nexuses by hydro, and develop their char in that direction.

 

Also there would need to be some kind of flag on nexuses, to distinct those taken by PPs, and those taken by hydro bars.

[Entropy]

I am not going to go to extremes like putting flags per nexus and shit like that. It's too complicated and I'd rather spend my time on something more useful.

 

Most likely, if I do it, it will be "pay 10-20 htdrogenium bars, remove anexus, get a PP". But if I do that people will bitch about the "rich people IRL" getting free stats, so I don't know if I am ever going to implement that.

[Grozni]

I mentioned flags exactly cause of that. If only those nexuses which was bought by PPs can be moved back to PP, then would not been possibility to really buy PP.

 

For example, newbie use PP for nexus, one day when he earn some money he can, if he wants, to pay some hydro bars and move it back to PP, and buy that nexus with another 50 hydro bar.

 

And that would be one more way for draining money

[Ambrosius]

I am not going to go to extremes like putting flags per nexus and shit like that. It's too complicated and I'd rather spend my time on something more useful.

 

Most likely, if I do it, it will be "pay 10-20 htdrogenium bars, remove anexus, get a PP". But if I do that people will bitch about the "rich people IRL" getting free stats, so I don't know if I am ever going to implement that.

 

Id really like to see smth like that implemented.

 

Since the skills have changed a lot (pot / manu / craft / summ) players would be able to decide to not do a skill anymore and get pp's back to put in another skill or p/c......but for a price. 10-20 hydrobars seems like a good price at that.

 

As for the rich ppl.......i think everybody will be able to get 10-20 hydrobars with a bit of work....so everybody can benefit from it.

 

At least you will be able to choose then:

-reset to correct a mistake (or to focus your char on smth else)

or

-get back nexus pp's with working for hydro bars.

Edited February 15, 2007 by Ambrosius

[hades]

Most likely, if I do it, it will be "pay 10-20 htdrogenium bars, remove anexus, get a PP". But if I do that people will bitch about the "rich people IRL" getting free stats, so I don't know if I am ever going to implement that.

 

I like that ideia. as usually a great ideia from our GOD !

 

Would be nice to spend pp's in p/c also maybe at 75 hydro bars each seems quiet a challenge ;p and would free the spwans for the ones that like to train 10h day

 

About rich people IRL , who said life is suppose to be fair and equal to everyone ? and money only buys time anyway, so everyone can get it in the long run.

[Grozni]

Just to clarify and prevent possible flaming:

 

Idea is to make movable PP from nexus back to PP, but only those which are taken by PP already. That would prevent taking free stats.

[NitageR]

I love this idea.

I have some nexuses actually I don't use anymore - vegetal and inorganic. Many of us remember times when potions of spirit restoration were not stackable, so we could bring like ~30 of them on a spawn. So it was very useful and strategic to make them on a spawn.. so around 100+ srs instead of 30. Later srs became stackable so everyone was able to bring over 100 of them on a spawn.. and further when vials started to vanish after use, vegetal nexus for a trainer = wasted pps :/ The same with inorganic nexus.. it was usually taken in association with vegetal. Additionally, new monsters made many trainers able to afford buying essences/potions instead of making them by theirselves.

 

I'm fine with game updates, new conditions, but it would be very nice if Entropy would let us regain pps we actually don't need or have no profit from it anymore due to the new game conditions. I do spend each of my PPs very carefully, but how could I expect over 1.5 year ago what will be at present? The thing is that for high level trainers/fighters each PP is priceless. For example I need atm 18M exp to get a new PP.

 

We actually don't need any flag to distinguish which pps are from Overall and which are from hydro bars. Entropy wants to avoid such a situation, where Player A buys a hydro nexus and suddenly doesn't need it anymore and gets rid of it and puts it into phys or coord. That's why I'm suggesting that if removing pps from nexuses was ever implemented it should be quite expensive. Let's say 20-25 hydro bars per 1 pp. Why? If someone wants to be so smart and buy hydro nexus for 50 hydro bars and get rid of it for 20-25 hydro bars it gives us 70-75 hydro bars per 1 PP. We need to put at least 2 PPs into basic attributes, so I think that 140-150 hydro bars for 2 more on phys or coord is a way too expensive to play with imo.

[littlestar]

Or do as some people allready have done #reset

[Gohan]

I am not going to go to extremes like putting flags per nexus and shit like that. It's too complicated and I'd rather spend my time on something more useful.

 

Most likely, if I do it, it will be "pay 10-20 htdrogenium bars, remove anexus, get a PP". But if I do that people will bitch about the "rich people IRL" getting free stats, so I don't know if I am ever going to implement that.

 

I agree most with that. Its an unnecessary feature imo.

 

-Blee

[Grozni]

I am not going to go to extremes like putting flags per nexus and shit like that. It's too complicated and I'd rather spend my time on something more useful.

 

And about implementation... (yes i was bored ) And without flags. Sure that is not that simple, but just an idea.

BTW dont have a clue about EL code, never looked it but this is pseudo.

 

NPC X

 

What NEXUS you want to return to PP (You can do anyone, but only if it was already taken buy PP and not with hydro bars)?

It costs xx hydro bars.

 

Human Vegetal Inorganic....

 

onPress(){
Check(nexusChoice)
}

Check(nexusChoice){
if (player_OA>=player_AllAttributes()-player_AllPositivePerks+player_AllNegativePerks){
	player_freePPs++;
	player_Nexus(nexusChoice)--;
	remove(xx,hydro bar); // from inventory
}
else{
	Message("Dont smeg with me");		
}
}


player_AllAttributes(){
return player_allAttributes-4*6)
//4*6 are basic starting pack attributes
}

 

 

Yes i know that its not that simple^^, but also dont think its too much work. And its seems that people would liked that option.

Edited February 15, 2007 by Grozni

[Szatan]

I am not going to go to extremes like putting flags per nexus and shit like that. It's too complicated and I'd rather spend my time on something more useful.

 

Most likely, if I do it, it will be "pay 10-20 htdrogenium bars, remove anexus, get a PP". But if I do that people will bitch about the "rich people IRL" getting free stats, so I don't know if I am ever going to implement that.

 

I came up with an idea :

- there might be 2 NPC's. One sells nexuses and second removes nexuses for bars.

- to avoid 'omg rich ppl they get free stats' : These NPC should be like gods (Mortos<->Aluwen for example)

You can choose which you want to "serve", first choice is free, you can "serve" selling or removing pp NPC.

- If you chose NPC A you can't ''serve'' to NPC B like with Mortos and Aluwen.

- changing NPC could cost 0.5M-1M gc to avoid bitching.

- and of course LIMIT. Like you can't remove more than 10-15 pps. Reset would set this limit to 0. You can remove nexuses again.

 

If this worked i am sure it would help economy. Some gc would go out of the game :-)

Edited February 17, 2007 by Szatan

[masterpiter]

nice idea ^^

[Atlantis]

<grozni's idea

Could work, I think.

Set value n = PlayerOA - free pps - Perks + Negative Perks - Attributes - 4*6 (for starting attributes)

If n= 0 then the player spent no pp on nexus.

If n = 2 then the player spend 2 pp on nexus.

Etc.

So "n" is the amount of nexus that should be able to be removed with hydro bars, and prevents free pp

[Entropy]

Of course that this idea would WORK, but it is not simple at all, you have to determine the value of each perk (which are stored in the scripting part), determine if a perk is native or if a cape is worn, and so on.

And that method can't even tell which nexus was bought and which wasn't.

Too much of a pain in the ass.

 

I do like the other suggestion though, with two NPCs like gods.

[Jaha]

Would you be able to make it so you trade a nexus in one skill for one in another at the cost of some hydro bars?

[Entropy]

Would you be able to make it so you trade a nexus in one skill for one in another at the cost of some hydro bars?

 

The answer is: Maybe in the future, but there are no short term plans for something like this.

[gurgeh]

Of course that this idea would WORK, but it is not simple at all, you have to determine the value of each perk (which are stored in the scripting part), determine if a perk is native or if a cape is worn, and so on.

 

Since all the "artificial perks" (the cape ones) are positives, wearing a cape while trying to move Nexus to free pps only goes against player's interest, lowering the free movable OA. So IMHO, there is no need to differentiate between natural perks and artificial ones.