So are we (the summoners) happy now?

[Gohan]

That would be 250-260, not 350-360 ;-)

 

Omg, you're right too. I'll speak for myself only out of safety.

 

I'm an idiot for not noticing.

 

-Blee

[Vormavius]

In 26 minutes I carried stuff from storage to mine, harvested the gypsums and I made 28 spider stones (2 losses).

 

Total Experience on Summon: 10.276 (~23k xp each our)

Total Spiders Stones each hour: 62

 

Cost Best Case / Worst Case

---------------------------------------

20 LE = 100 gc / 140 gc

20 Thread = 40 gc / 40 gc

4 SR's = 68 gc / 80 gc

1 FP = 12 gc / 12 gc

---------------------------------------

Total Cost = 220 gc / 272 gc

 

My Failure Rate: ~10%: Final Cost: 242 ~ 299 gc (including 10% of fail)

 

I need to say My load is bigger than other summoners, so others will have less production.

Edited November 7, 2006 by Vormavius

[Entropy]

Ok, I will do some more minor adjustments.

[Egarra]

Guild member used a yeti stone. They eventually beamed from the map and the yeti stayed in one spot and never moved. This is not how summons used to behave when the summoner left the map. They used to wander around free from any tie to the summoner. Edit..If something came in visual range, it would attack. Then it would stop and stand still again.

Edited November 8, 2006 by Egarra

[chaoogie]

actually, only some summons (usually just the animals) would move around.

[Egarra]

Ok, this is my first experience with a summons that was not an animal. thought it was a problem

[chaoogie]

the animals are mainly to train up and possibly train on, and the monsters are mainly used as a pking method hence they only directly follow you, although the ssesslar o.O(spelling its latish) is (unless it was changed) the only monster that doesnt directly follow and wanders off. i havent done any since the first day it was intro'd sooo not 100% just some info for further refrence for you

[LadyReni]

Of course Vormavius loves the update ..he made 10-20 high lvls in 5 days + huge profit (what was that again 400k?)

I hope after last 'minor changes' it will not be that easy to lvl up. I wasn't online so I didn't have the chance to check how it goes with food needed, but I am sure it works better. Easy levels are bad levels (my very private opinion).

[Happy_G]

ssesslar o.O(spelling its latish)

 

sslessar, i checked my counters, ive been killed by one

[Vormavius]

Edit: Nvm, lets pm on the game

Edited November 8, 2006 by Vormavius

[fullmetal_aj]

so is there going to be some changing in the formula of some summon stones (the food substraction) ?

 

just wanted 2 know

 

FMA

[Entropy]

I am awaiting for suggestions. With numbers and stuff.

[simon]

In 26 minutes I carried stuff from storage to mine, harvested the gypsums and I made 28 spider stones (2 losses).

 

Total Experience on Summon: 10.276 (~23k xp each our)

Total Spiders Stones each hour: 62

 

Cost Best Case / Worst Case

---------------------------------------

20 LE = 100 gc / 140 gc

20 Thread = 40 gc / 40 gc

4 SR's = 68 gc / 80 gc

1 FP = 12 gc / 12 gc

---------------------------------------

Total Cost = 220 gc / 272 gc

 

My Failure Rate: ~10%: Final Cost: 242 ~ 299 gc (including 10% of fail)

 

I need to say My load is bigger than other summoners, so others will have less production.

 

hmmm

 

assuming you can carry 30 stone ings, that means you need to harvest 600 gypsum

 

harvesting 60 gypsum (emu 600+) takes 64 seconds (2 second for start, 2 second for stop+drop) so it would take 640 seconds or 11 minutes to harvest the gypsum. Due to the fact that you can only make 2 stones per pof it would be '12' stones minute, so 150 seconds to mix the stones. 640+150=790=13 minutes.

Walk time from MM sto to MM sulphur was 1:45 so 210 seconds to storage

 

that all totals up to :

 

640+150+210=1000 seconds which is ~16-17 minutes. Either you were lagging a lot and or weren't harvesting all the time to get an extra 10 minutes on it o.O. Hence you can make upto

3600/1000=3.6*30 stones MAX per hour that is... including fails, ~100 stones/hour not 60.

 

ing cost, fine... but some people sell sr's at 15 each also if you buy in bulk and it takes 1/2 fp for a stone.

 

Cost Best Case / Worst Case

---------------------------------------

20 LE = 100 gc / 140 gc

20 Thread = 40 gc / 40 gc

4 SR's = 60 gc / 80 gc

1/2 FP = 6 gc / 6 gc

---------------------------------------

Total Cost = 206 gc / 266 gc

 

and with the sale of 100 stones/hour you would make (if you bought all ings from players/shop) 44*100=4.4kgc which is still more than you can make per hour harvesting from flowers (yes, even the 'money maker one').

 

4.4kgc profit, 36.7k xp per hour with making spider stones in the MM mines

 

Most summoners make their own LE because they are so easily made and take a very short amount of time with the new auto-mixer so the profit is still quite a large one. I'd say make the spider stones non profitable to buy all ings also but heck, that's just me

Also... there are no profitable items for manuers/crafters to sell to the npc. Only potters have the high level potions on which to gain gc and those take a LOT more time to make than summoning stones. Summoning stones however take only a short amount of time to make enough of them and you can easily sell them to the npc.

 

Also, for comparison, i'l calc the ing/xp cost for a wolf summoning session

 

Cost Best Case / Worst Case

---------------------------------------

3 bones = 0.9 gc / 3 gc

2 meat = 8 gc / 14 gc

0.4 SR's = 6 gc / 8 gc

1 wolf fur = 6 gc / 12 gc

2 LE = 10 gc / 14 gc

---------------------------------------

Total Cost = 30.9 gc / 51 gc

 

emu per 'wolf' : 11

 

The limiting factor on summoning them is the walk time to a summon arena (assuming nc/sk arena) return trip is ~5 minutes and 600 emu.

 

600/11 = 54 wolves per trip

 

It takes 2 seconds to summon 1 wolf and you need to drink a sr per 2.5 wolves, so the wait time is 20 seconds between wolves. 54/2.5=22 waiting moments, that means 440+54*2=548 seconds to summon them

so in total, 800-900 seconds per trip so about 4-5 trips per hour

 

xp gained from ~200 wolves (god+20 will) = 16kkxp

gc lost on 'best case'/'worst case'

6.2kk/10.2k

 

So basicly making the stones gives you a lot more xp/hour AND you GAIN money, not lose it the traditional way. Good good, now summoners have a way of getting levels but it favors highly making the stones but not summoning the old way so like someone mentioned before. "summoning has become a manufacturing skill where you make stones, but don't summon them".

 

My suggestions will not have much weight, but reducing the xp gained and increasing some more of the ings would be better to make them more 'equal' in game terms. Still they are a bit too high for summoners to gain levels quickly and make gc while getting levels (which no other skill in the game can anymore).

 

If you wish to keep the ings as they are then may i add a suggestion to make the ring molds and M&P sellable for a profit when you buy the ings and increase the xp from them? That way manuers can make some items for a profit once again...

 

Nook1e

 

edit: forgot about sr cooldowns, that adds +400 seconds per trip

edi2: doh! 3600/900!=6 -,-

Edited November 10, 2006 by Nook1e

[LadyReni]

I am starting to have a headache

[sithicus]

If a bear stone costs about 130 to make discounting failures and gypsum and buying all else from players, 125gc seems a fair price. Bears are a good summon after boars/wolves, I tire of all the summoning of those and am glad there's a bear stone at 30.

 

As for summoning the old way: its not in the encyclopedia and the CEL website doesnt have levels for all the monsters but I have the feeling all summon levels are a bit high for the relative strength of the monster. Never mind the price of the ingredients for goblins, orcs, skeletons etc. Perhaps it would be better to make summoning the old fashioned way a bit easier and possibly cheaper. Like, all these gargoyles at over 30 are still advanced newbie monsters and even a pack of level 32 wolves don't kill any monsters that a/d 32 won't kill. I can't see someone with 30 summon having any need for a gargoyle following him around any more, except for the show. A bear at 30, even in a stone, is a bit more worthy of respect, and useful too. A fluffy at 35 contrasts heavily with those n44b monsters around it.

 

Perhaps it'd be better to rate the summon level of a monster to a percentage of it's average a/d.

Edited November 10, 2006 by sithicus

[shallara]

i doubt anyone can haul the ingreds for 30 bear stones (for instance) into the gypsum.

150 lifes 150 emu

30 sr's 150 emu

10 furs 90 emu

15 fp's 75 emu

---------------------

465

thats not counting picks, or excav cape

[LadyReni]

15 fps for 10 bears? make it 10 maximum

[Vormavius]

Nok1e, you are not counting the mix failure, harvent events, take resources from storage, those took time also.

 

And u cannot make 2 stones per fp. You make 2 in one fp, then 1 on the next, due to recovery from negative food level.

 

I'll took those timings again

 

Edit: No need to explain how to train, but 16k for summoning wolves each hour is a bad estimative, coming from a person who never summoned a wolf to train

Edited November 10, 2006 by Vormavius

[Blodoks]

Edit: No need to explain how to train, but 16k for summoning wolves each hour is a bad estimative, coming from a person who never summoned a wolf to train

 

Not all the players have a 2nd character like you (you call it "friend") to mana drain... I call that to cheat.

Lol... "no need to explain how to train... " explain... explain...

[Vormavius]

Edit: No need to explain how to train, but 16k for summoning wolves each hour is a bad estimative, coming from a person who never summoned a wolf to train

 

Not all the players have a 2nd character like you (you call it "friend") to mana drain... I call that to cheat.

Lol... "no need to explain how to train... " explain... explain...

 

Humm really I saw you hear when I talked with ice on the cave about using mana drain.

 

But now are u acusing me? Only a guy helped me to do that, he is anamir and he is pretty older than me on the game.

 

You are full of envy blodoks, first because apparently your guild is not so united to help each other, and because u feel like summon is not more Skill of Blodoks

 

bleh

 

Edit: Ok, I'll teach the master how to train:

 

1. Call a strong friend that can afford to support some attack in KF, he will use a COM, You also.

2. You sum both load and make the correct division of ingredients for the summoning (i.e. wolfs)

3. Both of you fill your mana on NC storage, Your friend awaits on kf entrance in skf, you go to the skf arena and summon.

4. When you are low on mana, you go to kf entrance, and both of you enters kf and you mana drain him.

5. You back to arena and he starts to refill mana drinking SR.

 

Wtf is this cheat? This is true legal and you dont learn, even your mouth put you in trouble some time, You dont learn with that.

Edited November 10, 2006 by Vormavius

[Ornitorrinco]

LOL you are trying to suggest that Anamir is Vorma's alt? Get real, Blodoks.

[simon]

making one stone takes as much food as 1 hydro bar. Although i was over the recommended by quite a bit i could make 2 bars per fp easily. And also... it is possible to cut the wait time on sr's but the fact remains, you get more xp via stones AND gain gc doing so. That is just not right but as you said, i am not a summoner just someone who likes cold numbers over 'estimates'. Taking stuff out of storage takes a max of 1 minute and harvest events... those remove a max of 10-20 seconds unless you afk harvest, and afk harvesting gypsum... is... uhm... no comment (takes a max of 2 minutes even for the yber emu folks).

 

Nook1e

Edited November 10, 2006 by Nook1e

[Vormavius]

Awww, I re-read your post nook1e, and I saw a thing

 

In my example I didnt do a single trip. Actually a stone uses:

 

LEs: 20 / Threads: 20 / SR: 4 / fp 1 = 65 emu ingredients each stone

 

 

I'm at job now, but I'll re-time that as soon as I get home

 

But would be very nice if more people help and put their experiences here, it will give a more accurated result, and more fair for all.

 

Edit: Mispellings

Edited November 10, 2006 by Vormavius

[Harlock]

let's the flame start!

You are full of envy blodoks, first because apparently your guild is not so united to help each other

 

why are you speaking like that?

You do not know nothing about our guild and how much we help each other, Blodoks worked hard for Elit, he maked *free* full tit plates for all co-guilders.

 

...u feel like summon is not more Skill of Blodoks...

 

1. Call a strong friend that can afford to support some attack in KF, he will use a COM, You also.

2. You sum both load and make the correct division of ingredients for the summoning (i.e. wolfs)

3. Both of you fill your mana on NC storage, Your friend awaits on kf entrance in skf, you go to the skf arena and summon.

4. When you are low on mana, you go to kf entrance, and both of you enters kf and you mana drain him.

5. You back to arena and he starts to refill mana drinking SR.

 

LOL and this is called "summoning" ??

 

BIG difference between making a stone <> levelling old way

[Blodoks]

You do not know nothing about our guild...

 

Thank you, Harlock, but I think he's talking about the cave where me and PhantomEmpress harvest the gypsum. PhantomEmpress are doing an experiment: too see how is fast to level with stones.

She was summoning lvl 7 last Friday.

She summoned some deer and snakes until lvl 14.

From lvl 14+potions she level only making stones (careless of to lose ingredients).

Today she's at summoning lvl 27.

So, 1 week to get 20 summon levels and playing fair, without to run or to have a chronometer in the hand.

 

I don't summon wolves from the 2005: no cooldown... no arena..., probably no mana drain too, but was fun to know new players, to buy meat and other ingredients. That was the summoning.