So are we (the summoners) happy now?

[Entropy]

But, it would have been nice to be able to sell stones to an NPC ( I did not find one) This is what crafters/manufacturers/potioners etc. do when the market gets saturated with the product that they make. This may help keep a minimum value in the lower end stones. As it was, I was offered 5-10gc/ bear stone. They still sit in my storage; ill play with them myself at that price.

 

I suggest you to look further, because there is one NPC buying some of them.

[Dushan]

After spending a couple of days to make stones, I see the bottom has dropped out of the market..No biggie, summonors are used to not making money on summoning so it may be hard for this group to keep the price up. But, it would have been nice to be able to sell stones to an NPC ( I did not find one) This is what crafters/manufacturers/potioners etc. do when the market gets saturated with the product that they make. This may help keep a minimum value in the lower end stones. As it was, I was offered 5-10gc/ bear stone. They still sit in my storage; ill play with them myself at that price.

 

Another idea, would be to have 'luck" stones. It helps take the sting off of making fe, when you get an efe. I dont know what a 'luck' stone would be at this point, but its just a suggestion.

 

You should read this topic more carefully because I already answered to Blodoks's question where is that NPC.

[Pyewacket]

My post about including a secondary nexus wasnt for using but creating the stones. After all these are the summoners high end produce, in a similar way as magic wepaons are for manuers, and MMD or ROP are for crafters. If other skills require 2 nexus to make their highest mixable items (so far) I only thought it would follow that this same requirement would be for these stones as well.

 

If not then no worries, I look forward to levelling my summons a little more and making the stones with no additional outlay of PP's.

 

r0x0rz.

Edited November 6, 2006 by Pyewacket

[LadyReni]

I noticed summon stones are storable under 'animals' section. It would be nice to have separate section for them.. or maybe move them to 'magic'. Somehow it is confusing to see them next to raw meat and furs.

[simon]

Errrrr... uhm...

Aren't the summoning stones a bit too 'powerful' for getting summoning levels?

all of the ings for the lower stones are very easily acquired and sold at a huge profit to npc

 

for example, the spider stone:

 

spider stone :

10 thread - 20gc

10 le 50-60gc

2 spirit pots - 30-40gc

 

100gc. npc buy price - 250gc

 

Because gypsum ways so much no sane harvester would gather it to sto for sale so every summoner takes his ings to the deposit and makes there. Hence, very quick and easy summon xp.

 

The xp gained from these stones should be reduced by atleast 5x and the npc buy/sell prices adjusted to more reasonable prices. At the moment you can make 200k+gc/week easily and get 10's of levels, even if you are just lvl 30 summoning.

The time it takes to make 10 spider stones is about

 

20 gypsum - 20 seconds, walk to mm mines 2-3 minutes

200 + 200*200 = 10 minutes

 

So in 10 minutes you can easily make a 1.5k profit, that is 9kgc per hour. Yeah, it's good that summoners have a way of getting a income, but shouldn't it be in some sort of 'scale' of equal to alch/pot/manu/craft?

 

The only gc manuers get is if they find someone buying some of the armors/weapons and 90% of that is just the bars/leather/thread in it. So a minor profit unless you make your own bars hence the 'profit' of manu goes under alchemy. Also, it takes weeks just to sell just one piece of tit/steel armors, so there is almost 0 profit in them and everyone is undercutting eachothers prices so that they have started to cost less than their ingredients. The max profit you can make is ~10-50k a week IF you sit around on ch3 for 24/7 and don't fail anything/make your own bars. The npc buy prices for the armors/weapons are lower than their base ing cost so there is no chance of selling to them.

 

All in all, it's nice that summoners now have a way of generating gc by their levels but it is imho a too high gc gain compared to the relative easyness of the ingredients and xp gained. Crafters had their 'profit making' ring prices lowered at ringa also it takes a long time just to get enough ings to make even 10k, manuers don't even have a decent item to make and sell to a npc for a profit (without making their own ings), making ts pots takes AGES until you get any decent amount of flowers to make&sell to the npc, alchemist have to harvest their ings or they will sell at a minus, like the rest before mentioned. So the only 'profitable' skills are harvesting/summoning now which is kind of sad.

 

Oh well, guess we will see a lot of people running away fro the bushes and starting to summon because that way the 'profit' is 2x more than selling flowers/ores/minerals.

 

Nook1e

[Blodoks]

I noticed summon stones are storable under 'animals' section. It would be nice to have separate section for them.. or maybe move them to 'magic'. Somehow it is confusing to see them next to raw meat and furs.

 

I understood your humour and I agree with you

[Ice]

1) I noticed that counters do not keep track for summoning stones, would be nice if they did.

2) I have heard much talk about cooldown. I would like to suggest a warm up period. You click the summonin stone and it takes 10-20 seconds to release(wake up) the summoned creature. If you change maps, would have to start over. this would keep anyone from jumping on pk map using a stone and jumping back out. It would also allow true summoners an advantage if carried the ingredents with them instead of stones.... JusT a though!

 

 

Edited for spelling

Edited November 6, 2006 by Ice

[Knuckles]

Lol, the stones are great I can do 20 Bears in 2 seconds..

[Blodoks]

Nook1e, you right. About all.

Thanks to this wonderful summoning, I made 630k exp in 1 hour = 1 summ lvl (lvl 75...

with old system I need 1 month to get that lvl), next I summoned 112 sslessar (448k gc

of value) in KF... now with the profit of today, 200k gc, Im ready to get back all the gc I

spent in 20 months.

 

Invasion

Edited November 6, 2006 by Blodoks

[Harlock]

I summoned 112 sslessar

 

 

Nooooo I missed it !!

[Entropy]

Yes, some of the formulas will be further adjusted. They are not 100% ballanced yet.

[Egarra]

Sorry I missed the post about the NPC that buys stones..I found it. Thats what I get for reading forums at 1AM, I missed the whole page.

 

I love the new stones. They are a great way to level a once difficult skill, but what I see is that summoning, which "I" once considered a fighting skill, is now a manufacturing skill. I'm ok with that if that is the direction the game wants to take, but, what is the advantage now to leveling summoning over just buying stones, besides a monitary gain. Why spend pick points in animal nexus, when now I can carry a bunch of stones that I purchased from a "summoning manufacturer". In the roll of a 'traditional' summoner I had to wear a crown of mana and a blue cloak to be able to summon any large quanity of anything. This is not to mention zero failure in using a stone.

 

I guess I would like to see some advantage in traditional summoning over the stones. Here are some random thoughts:

 

1. Higher emu on stones and non stackable. I sold 200 bear stones to the NPC in one trip...gosh..what if i had summoned all of them in one stitting. Imagine the lag. lol

 

2. Make higher level monsters not usable except by summoners or maybe higher level players. I know that this is already mentioned. But remember, in "my" mind summoning was a fighting skill originally not a manufactuing skill. Crafting was never a fighting skill. I think that at the top of any skill, there should be something held in reserve for those that make it.

 

3. Longer life span on traditional summoned monsters, better capabilities, possibly drops etc.

 

4. Decrease the exp on making stones. I cant even believe im saying that, I love the new exp points, but I still think there should be an advantage to traditional summoning. Why summon a bear the old fashoned way when I can make a stone and get over 3 times the exp points. Gosh, and I can sell it to not only recoup the loss but to make a profit.

 

5. Possibly require mana to actually make the stones. Not just SR's as an ingredient.

 

6. Decrease the amount of monsters that can be summoned from stones at one time. This could be accomplished by putting a mana requirement on using stones or a cool down on their use.

 

 

I love the new stones, I think they are a great idea and a much needed change to a difficult to level skill. However, if they are left as is, I don't see much reason to level summoning in the 'traditional' manner anymore. I can make massive monitary and experience gains just from making and selling stones.

 

These are my own thoughts and may or may not represent the feelings of other summoners. I really just don't know, aside from what I read in the forums, but I felt that I needed to put in my "2-cents" worth .

[jio_bob]

nice screeny Blodoks

Edited November 6, 2006 by jio_bob

[Entropy]

Ok, as you can see, I made quite a few adjustments to the summon stones.

Let me know if there are still issues.

[chaoogie]

thank you entropy for adding the cooldown thing, i saw someone do like 20-30 of something in a blink of an eye and it really urked me but wasnt gonna post anything about, but thank you

[Joshyboy]

I personaly think the ammout of food needed is a bit over the top, but the rest it all nice adjustment, and i agree with the xp changes you have made, thanks for the cooldown aswell

[Melchloren]

Ok, as you can see, I made quite a few adjustments to the summon stones.

Let me know if there are still issues.

 

 

I noticed one bug after the update tonight. When summoning in the arenas, the summoned creatures no longer attack each other. They'll group togeather, but no attack.

 

Thanks for the adjustment! `

 

Edited November 7, 2006 by Melchloren

[Happy_G]

I personaly think the ammout of food needed is a bit over the top, but the rest it all nice adjustment, and i agree with the xp changes you have made, thanks for the cooldown aswell

 

agreed, its the first item in summoning to use food, y does it take 25? im just curious as to how u decide how much food is needed for an item

[Entropy]

Well, the goal is to not make too much money from the first summonable items that you sell the the NPC.

Increasing the food required increases both the time and the cost of the production, which lowers the cost and the experience.

 

But as I said, I am not done yet, there will be a few other adjustments once I get people's feedback on it.

[Happy_G]

ok, im aware that that isnt the goal btw, just currious if there was a formula for it or something. i havent made many since this update so i cant contribute any more info (im hardly able to make bear stones as it is)

 

 

one ? is the sslessar only summonable through stone?

[chaoogie]

no its only a summon item and also stone summonable

[Dushan]

Everything seems okay as it is now, though I think required food lvl to make stones should be lowered a bit.

[Kahal]

i think the rec food level is far too high when you include the increase in ingreds and the drop in xp... it should either be required food, drop in xp, or increase in ingreds, maybe 2 of the 3, but not all 3. i totaly agree something needs to be done, but this is to drastic of a change in my oppinion.

 

p.s. the prices for the high level stones should really be increased.

[Dushan]

hmm I agree with that.

[Blodoks]

At this point that fine of 100k gc was unfair...