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The_Knight

Summoning Stones

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Ok.

The prices are estimative, and subject to change. I will adjust them soon.

U aren't forced to set the prices as the sum of the ingredients themselves, u may always "rethink" the summoning stones "job" by adding extra ingredients much more expensive... like a new void stone (K hydro bars for example or only harvesting and very rare) and X binding stone + Y EME + Z EDE + regular ingredients to do a summoning stone with X Y Z depending on what is to be trapped in stone (even 000 for low level creatures). This is only an example, i hope u have more fantasy.

NPC of course have to sell at >100k one giant stone and others few less. Instead, high skill summoners may save much money by summoning by themselves. Sadly (and honestly is right imho) summoners won't use stones due to price in this case.

I suggest Human nexus 7 or even more :) for stones (or 5 low level creatures, 6 till yetis, 7arctics, 8 giants, and this last is fair, cause summoners spent pp to summon)

Don't tell i'm bitchin'... i know it.

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U aren't forced to set the prices as the sum of the ingredients themselves, u may always "rethink" the summoning stones "job" by adding extra ingredients much more expensive... like a new void stone (K hydro bars for example or only harvesting and very rare) and X binding stone + Y EME + Z EDE + regular ingredients to do a summoning stone with X Y Z depending on what is to be trapped in stone (even 000 for low level creatures). This is only an example, i hope u have more fantasy.

NPC of course have to sell at >100k one giant stone and others few less. Instead, high skill summoners may save much money by summoning by themselves. Sadly (and honestly is right imho) summoners won't use stones due to price in this case.

I suggest Human nexus 7 or even more :) for stones (or 5 low level creatures, 6 till yetis, 7arctics, 8 giants, and this last is fair, cause summoners spent pp to summon)

Don't tell i'm bitchin'... i know it.

 

Yes, that's one of the things that I plan to do (the formulas for the stones were not available yet).

Although now I think i will put them under crafting.

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Top summoners don't need money because top summoners know how to play the game. Just look at the stats of the top 5-6 summoners.

I was Blodoks, now no more. My character will sleep in Portland where I start to summon 20 months ago.

You'll see in game only Blodoks_Ghost... for some months yet... who he'll harvest lupines, he'll buy stones and he'll kill top fighters. Blodoks_Ghost will be att def 3.. no nexus, etc.

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Top summoners don't need money because top summoners know how to play the game. Just look at the stats of the top 5-6 summoners.

I was Blodoks, now no more. My character will sleep in Portland where I start to summon 20 months ago.

You'll see in game only Blodoks_Ghost... for some months yet... who he'll harvest lupines, he'll buy stones and he'll kill top fighters. Blodoks_Ghost will be att def 3.. no nexus, etc.

 

Good, because that's what you deserve. I expect the same from Chaoogie and LadyReni.

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Ent you really don't realize you do no harm to us because we can do some other things instead.. you just harm the game you created, and that worries me because I like EL.

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Ent you really don't realize you do no harm to us because we can do some other things instead.. you just harm the game you created, and that worries me because I like EL.

Not really. As you can see, most of the players are not summoners. By moving those stones to crafting, a lot of players will be happy, while the summoning skill will remain like before (so nothing will change in this aspect).

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You're letting players rule the game all the same, but instead of giving them what they want, you're giving them the oposite. It would be better if you just implemented what you want, completely ignored the bitching and then tweaked it as you think it's appropriate.

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You're letting players rule the game all the same, but instead of giving them what they want, you're giving them the oposite. It would be better if you just implemented what you want, completely ignored the bitching and then tweaked it as you think it's appropriate.

 

Yes. You know, it's more like being a parent that has a 5yo. You want to buy him a candy, you even tell him you'll buy him a candy, but when going near the candy store, he starts screaming that he wants his candy (even though you were going there to get his candy).

Buying the candy anyway would really spoil that child, making him believe that this is the way to request candies. Instead, you discipline him, and don't buy him candies for months.

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Except that the main goal of a parent is to educate his child, while your main goal is improve your game, not discipline your players. EL's players are quite tame when compared to other MMOs where you see some people that behave like animals.

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Ent you really don't realize you do no harm to us because we can do some other things instead.. you just harm the game you created, and that worries me because I like EL.

Not really. As you can see, most of the players are not summoners. By moving those stones to crafting, a lot of players will be happy, while the summoning skill will remain like before (so nothing will change in this aspect).

 

 

i was very excited about these stones coming out and being a summon item, my thought was "awsome, a good way to lvl my summoning, i can create them now and actually use them at a later date!!!!"

 

i loved this idea how it was originally stated and in the original way you were going to tweek the prices, not exactly sure your plan or how it changed the costs of things but i believe that you evened it out more like u had said you would.

 

just had to let you know that i loved the idea

signed, a newbie summoner who was just getting into the craft and very excited

Happy_G

 

 

 

edit:

Except that the main goal of a parent is to educate his child, while your main goal is improve your game, not discipline your players. EL's players are quite tame when compared to other MMOs where you see some people that behave like animals.

 

lets not get started on other MMORPG's, we all know how their comunities r.

Edited by Happy_G

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Except that the main goal of a parent is to educate his child, while your main goal is improve your game, not discipline your players. EL's players are quite tame when compared to other MMOs where you see some people that behave like animals.

 

And there is a reason for this, no?

If you want a good community, you have to sometimes discipline it.

Of course, the main goal is still to improve EL. Which is why I always have some alternatives at hand. For example, I am considering making some pet like system which will more or less replace the summoning skill (the summoning skill will still be there, only not as useful as I planed to make it).

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Ent, please reconsider . . . I love the idea of these stones and think they would add a whole new level to summoning. Something that is defenitely needed. Please, don't let a few complaints ruin a great idea.

 

-LK :(

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I am still having to add the summoning stones, and the low level ones will be worth making (some summoners will get some money from them). But the high level ones will be not worth making (unless if you get the ingredients very cheap).

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I am still having to add the summoning stones, and the low level ones will be worth making (some summoners will get some money from them). ...

 

That sounds like you're back to letting the summoners (not crafters) make them. Even though I'm a crafter and would like something new to make, I really believe summoning stones belong in the summoning skill.

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Omg, I'm getting just as sick of this bitching as Ent is. Yes it would be nice if we could get everything just the way we wanted it, but this game is bigger than one person. Just because it may not benefit you doesn't mean it doesn't benefit the game as a whole. And wtf is with this jumping on a new addition before waiting to see what impact it has? Can't you even leave it for a frakking day, never mind a week before bashing something? And may I remind you, that a number of items are sold by NPCs but still sell on market. A few adjustments to the prices, so that made ones would be cheaper than buying them, and there you go, problem solved. But no, you had to whine, and now no one wins.

 

You can't complain that you won't make any money from this, because you didn't start summoning to make money.

 

Excuse me while I go cool off. :(

 

Edit: I am not personally attacking reni/blodoks/chaoogie/etc., I'm just very tired of people bashing new additions without giving them a chance. Oh, and btw I'm a summoner, and I'm in the top 100 (ok with summon 30, but whatever :brooding:), and I'm not panicing.

Edited by Terena

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I think the solution is simple:

Have the stones require the corresponding summoning level. That way - summoning is still the hard to level skill that pays off in the end and people who have done the work can reset to get rid of nexus and pump their p/c being a deadly weapon using the stones.

 

If making the stones require animal nexus then this is still a good way to create market for starting summoners to create stones for high levels or summoners that do not wish to reset to make their own stones.

 

It is also then possible to level your summoning on rats, buy a stone, quaff a pot and summon a fluffy/chim so it still leaves a lot of options.

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I'm not a summoner, so maybe I do not know what I'm talking about, but why can't we have a situation just like the armor and weapons?

the lower at the shop, the higher manufacturable only.

It's a way already tested and well functional...

 

...or not?

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Ok.

The prices are estimative, and subject to change. I will adjust them soon.

 

What part of this was so hard for some people to understand?

 

Omg, I'm getting just as sick of this bitching as Ent is. Yes it would be nice if we could get everything just the way we wanted it, but this game is bigger than one person. Just because it may not benefit you doesn't mean it doesn't benefit the game as a whole. And wtf is with this jumping on a new addition before waiting to see what impact it has? Can't you even leave it for a frakking day, never mind a week before bashing something? And may I remind you, that a number of items are sold by NPCs but still sell on market. A few adjustments to the prices, so that made ones would be cheaper than buying them, and there you go, problem solved. But no, you had to whine, and now no one wins.

 

You can't complain that you won't make any money from this, because you didn't start summoning to make money.

 

Excuse me while I go cool off. :)

 

I agree with you Terena. I once bitched about a change almost right after it happened and wasn't very clear in what I really was complaining about. Looking back I realized that bitching doesn't do anything but piss off Ent, who is just trying to do what he thinks is best for the game as a whole. His game. Not ours, his.

 

Since then, if I don't agree with something then I try to give it a chance, do some testing with it and then form a constructive suggestion as to how it might work better from a players perspective. Just because something is implemented one way at first doesn't mean it won't ever change. Adjustments have been made after updates in the past.

 

I can understand summoners frustration, but c'mon...without the formula for the stones how can you really say that just because an npc sells it you won't make any profit from it? Do like Atlantis did and come up with some numbers for Ent to look at and evaluate. Offer a constructive suggestion to a possible formula for the stones. As far as anyone being able to use them, well yeah I guess I can see why a summoner would not be happy with that, but why else would a non-summoner buy one? Offer suggestions on level or nexus requirements for them. Offer something constructive.

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Made the Yeti Stone 10K, reduced the summoning cost to 2 ele (everything else the same)

Increased the Arctic Chim Stone cost to 13K, reduced it to 4 ele.

Increased the Giant Stone to 20K, reduced the cost to 1 EME

 

ElEs are now 3k-3.5k gc because of crowns

 

Artic ~ 4 els x 3k = 12kgc + Ewe 3k = 15kgc,, stone = 13kgc ....

Giant ~ 5 eles x 3k = 15k gc + eme 3k = 18k

 

 

now its logical to think that the "new" ingreds that you decided to drop would be needed to create a summon stone. so it would be new summon ingreds + stone of some sort/other ingred to create the actual stone. now for the artic as you can see it would cost 2kgc more at the least even if there was no other ingred. and for the giant it would have cost 18kgc to make without another ingred like a stone or w/e and npc sells for 20kgc... now if there was no other ingred summoners would make 1k gc from selling it cause no one buys over npc most times unless they are desperate or noobs that dont know any better.

 

now let me make this clear for everyone fucking one....

 

I LIKE THE IDEA/CONCEPT OF THE SUMMONING STONES AND WHAT THEY ARE SUPPOSE TO ACHIEVE..

 

so saying blodoks deserves to stop playing and you expect the same from me is bullshit... im not one to question updates sure ill complain about them in gm or something but not when i heard summoning stones were coming in.

 

i was actually excited i was like yay the millions of gc and hundreds of hours spent summoning will finally pay off and roja no i didnt level summon for the fun of it although i did have fun doing it, i did it to beat blodoks but then after i realized how much it would cost and the time required i decided to just stop, i havent summoned in like ... 2-3 months and dont have any definite plans to start up again. i also summoned to such a high level so one day i could be the best ingame and i am close to that goal now.

 

and to all those that are saying we shouldnt bitch maybe you should see how many bears/wolfs/monsters me blodoks and reni and the other top 5 summoners have done... i alone have cycled out 450ish tit longs form this game, i did 400 tit shorts, and numerous amounts of other weaponed summonable and ive done k's upon k's of polars/bears and wolfs and you expect us not to take it personally when the summon stones being sold were and would of been cheaper to get by npc because of fails and cost old and new...

 

ent, i understand that this is your game and what you say is law, but honestly I and i think the other summoners got over excited learning about the summoning stones cause we were exactly sure how they were going to be implemented and we all expected different things.. sorry for us getting our hopes up and wanting something to make summoning skill worth wild..

 

a small suggestion would be after the forumlas are set to remove the npc and yes i realize / read that you said you were going to move it under the crafting skill.... just hope you see what im trying to say, is we just got :):w00t: in hopes to finally have our own place on the market channel after spending soooo much on a skill that was purely a hobby skill in some ways.

 

@bleeding

i hope you realize that this is the first update that actually affected summoners in a positive negative way

yes we got new summons and new monters and all that was well and good, but this was the first time us summoners got an update that would help us contribute to the game with our skill... as for fighting please dont have me search the numerous amounts of updates that you guys just flipped the fuck over.. this is our first one a lil understanding would be nice

 

as i said i havent summoned in months and when i was called on the phone on my way back from work saying that summon stones are going to be implemented i was like yay!! finally a reason for me to summon a few more levels and be able to make things for friends and for sale. i will continue to focus on my other skills in hopes to be one of the best players ingame, i just hope that there is some understanding for summoners as it is costly and it is difficult to level because of srs/ingreds/fails and countless pm's from mods sayin hey you cant do this you cant do that not here move away(not talking about storages).

 

chaoogie ~ proud summoner.

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CelticLady what part of this you don't understand : it is not about the profit (in my case, cannot speak for others) but the fact that anyone can do something we worked hard on for months/years. Would you be happy if anyone could make titanium plates now without manu skill?

 

edit: yeah I am frustrated , but I will survive ... :) everything happens for a reason

Edited by LadyReni

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personally i dont mind if others are able to summon giants/yetis cause it is alot of fun to be like wow its mine!! and take it around its the fact that they can be bought at the npc negating our work, and as reni said what if it was on the other foot im sure there'd be more than the "bitching" we've done

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Yes, chaoogie, all good points, which is why I mentioned I was about to change some prices and ingredients. But it seems that this was not enough for the top summoners, which didn't waste any minute and complained again on how much this still sucks. Even before they seen the formulas for the stones.

This being the case, I have absolutely no motivation to try to please you.

And why should I?

I have many other things on my todo list, things others will actually appreciate.

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I apologize for anything i have said in this topic that you took as bitching, i just got really jazzed up about it when i got home then i read some the stuff on the forums and was like huh? why?, and please dont think I dont appreciate your efforts in helping summoning, its just people are always trying to figure things out on their own, i myself included, to try and stock up or hope to come out of the gates swinging, I and i think the others just assumed it would of been the same ingreds as needed to summon, because if it was less ingreds to create a stone and less costly, there would be no point in actualyl summoning when you can just make the stone. I hope that next time something that affects summoners in such a away comes up that it is taken better than this... and hope the other tings on the todo list come out great :)

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CelticLady what part of this you don't understand : it is not about the profit (in my case, cannot speak for others) but the fact that anyone can do something we worked hard on for months/years. Would you be happy if anyone could make titanium plates now without manu skill?

 

edit: yeah I am frustrated , but I will survive ... :) everything happens for a reason

 

I understand that completely. I know full well that you don't summon for proft. I stopped summoning because I couldn't afford to do that and level manufacturing. But some others were commenting on stone prices and how they were thinking they would finally be able to make a profit from their summoning level.

 

I guess that once again I wasn't clear in my meaning. What I was referring to by quoting that line and asking what was hard to understand, was that things were not set in stone. Adjustments were being considered and that possibly others would follow if there were other examples of why this wouldn't be good for summoners or the game as a whole. To just say "I'm pissed, and I don't like it this way" (not quoting anyone, just an example) doesn't give reason to change something. But to say "I have worked very hard for my levels and don't understand how this will benefit the game if anyone with a few gc can buy the stones and summon. Perhaps we should look at some level or nexus requirements for using the stones. This would then make summoning still a viable skill and people may need to sacrifice some pick points or level a bit to use the stones." (I think someone did suggest something similar)

 

I'm not saying you don't have a right to be upset and frustrated. But I don't think it's conducive to getting things changed that may need to be changed to just state you are upset.

 

No, I would not be happy if everyone could make Titanium Plates, but then again I am not happy about something else that is impacting the manufacturers but that is straying off topic so I won't go there. I do understand why that would make you feel like you worked so hard for nothing. All I was trying to suggest is to offer alternatives that would be acceptable to you, and possibly other top summoners, to help get it changed.

 

As I told LadyReni in PM, I don't mean my suggestions to be offensive to summoners. I am simply trying to suggest that there are more constructive ways to get your point across to Ent and offer suggestions for possible adjustments. And as a side note: No, I can't fully appreciate all the ways that this may impact a summoner.

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