Alcoholism

[Beorn]

There has been some debate by local insurance companies whether or not the rehabilitation for alcoholism should be covered by medical insurance or not. Personally, I don't think it is a disease and it should not be covered. Addiction is not a disease because is it brought on by yourself...nobody forced you to become addicted. The main arguement is that you must be treated for it, therefore it is a disease. This is not a treatment for a disease...

 

1 We admitted we were powerless over alcohol--that our lives had become unmanageable.

 

2 Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.

 

3 Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.

 

4 Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.

 

5 Admitted to God, to ourselves and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.

 

6 Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.

 

7 Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.

 

8 Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.

 

9 Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.

 

10 Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.

 

11 Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God, as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.

 

12 Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

 

...this is converting people to a religion. I don't see doctors doing this to treat cancer patients or people with any other illness. If you brought the addiction onto yourself I think that it should be your responcibility to pay for it to stop it. Please don't flame. I am just curious about the opinions and views of others on this topic.

Edited September 22, 2006 by Beorn

[JohnnyFrog]

ok... following your logic, rehabilitation of someone injured playing football should not be covered either... the player 'brought it on themselves'

 

What's that? car crash? driving too fast.... tsk tsk, guess what... no one forced you to drive too fast... not covered.

 

*edit*

If your objection is based on the 'religious' connotations of the AA 12 step programme, then there are plenty of secular assistance groups out there...

*end edit*

Edited September 22, 2006 by JohnnyFrog

[Nintenduh]

Heart attacks and lung disease are probably covered and they are in most cases brought on by poor lifestyle choices.

Edited September 22, 2006 by Nintenduh

[Arnieman]

Same for STDs, you didn't have to have sex...

 

...or for allergies, you don't have to live in the area near your allergens.

 

...or for asthma, where it's induced by living in or near a city - you could live in the middle of nowhere...

 

...or forsome cases of cancer, like melanoma - you didn't have to spend time in the sun...

 

Under your logic, what "disease" is coverable?

[Beorn]

Addiction is not a disease or a physical injury. You are giving examples of physical injuries and diseases.

[ttlanhil]

Addiction is not a disease or a physical injury

it isn't? really? the physical part I might accept (though most mental issues probably have physical components), but addiction is a mental/psychological illness... should they not be helped or not the same as depression? schizophrenia?

as to the religious aspect... yes, although it's more spiritual than an exact/strict organised religion. it doesn't interfere with any existing religion (well, it might, but doesn't have to), so not so much a conversion.

IMO, there are 2 things religion is for. one is a code of morals, mostly for those who have trouble sticking to their own or who have a moral code that doesn't work well with wider society (the enforcement of that code, through fear of hell or whatever, is another matter), the other is to give meaning to life (stuff like, no, dying isn't the end, there's a reason we're here, etc). again, leaving out the implementation (stuff like religion being used as an excuse for crimes, even those the religion says are sins), these are good things. adding a spiritual side doesn't hurt, because it can help, for the same reasons religion was invented/started/however you want it termed

[JohnnyFrog]

sooo... rather than treat the root cause (alcohol addiction) you'd propose to just continue replacing peoples kidneys when they fail?

[Guest ohmygod]

cant help em if they dont askfor it..if they ask for help, help them

[LaNora]

interesting topic....

 

what about babies born to alcoholic mothers? they didnt do it to themselves, not their choice, but nevertheless they are addicts. same goes for babies born to crack addicts and whathaveyou.

it takes a lot of nerve to ask for help, if they can muster it up, i say help them.

[shamara]

There is too much 'blame the victim' in medical things already. Many choices people make can lead to illness or injury that requires treatment. If we begin withholding treatment (or withholding insurance coverage which for many would amount to the same thing) for everything that could have been caused by a choice someone made, a lot of us would suffer because we did not eat our vegetables, excercise consistently or did something foolish. And this blaming of people may actually discourage some from getting help they need for fear of being accused of being not only ill but somehow "bad".

 

But there is another factor in alcoholism as well. Some people are much more susceptible to becoming addicted to it than others. I drink and it has never become a problem for me yet my brother was an alcoholic for many years before he accomplished recovery. Since we both drank alcohol but only one of us became addicted it is hard to see how it it was his 'fault'. I see alcoholism as almost more an allergy, like being sensitive to bee stings. Some of us are impacted a great deal more than others by its effects and we do not yet have reliable means of determining who is going to become alcoholic.

[Ikaris]

While some people bring their disease on themselves, It is far too dangerous to allow a blame the victim mentality to gain more influence in the medical and insurance fields.

 

If you allow this in ... next will be genetic testing for heart disease and breast cancer that drops you from coverage if you have certain genes, family history, work in an unhealthy environment, etc...

 

Don't let the insurance industry take in more money to pay out less in coverage... they are already quite sucessful with terms like 'pre-existing condition' and with only permitting you to go to a specific health provider for a problem (and hoping you die before you get to the front of the line).

[anthropologist]

lets all say the serenity prayer

[Albazz]

Hmmmmm well first of all i would like to say alcholism is an illness just as good as any cancer. One persons ability to stand against a craving is genetic. And some people "catch" alcholism far easier than your averga joe. I think an insurance policy should cover rehab for drug and alchholo addicts. If you dont consider it a disease, you havent expirenced it close up. Ask anybody who knows an alcholic wheter they consider it to be an illness or not.....

 

I feel like you (beorn) is trying to say that only physical injuries should be covered by insurance. I hope yp god that aint what youre trying to say. Alcoholism is a illness with both physical and psycological componets. And there are serious physical damages to the body after a life with alcohol..... so i guess by your logic they should be covered then....

 

A tired and bored out of his mind Alby

[Mugwump]

I was disappointed to see the results after I did the poll. Maybe most people haven't seen the damage that alcoholism can do.

 

Here's a simple example. I have a dear friend of *ick* almost 30 years now, with whom I've shared apartments, girlfriends, hallucinogens, music taste, cars, you name it. Out greatest feats of uselessness have entailed drinking each other under the table with amounts of alcohol far beyond respectability.

 

In 1998 at the level of a case of beer a day, I developed a bleeding ulcer. High stress at work and handfuls of aspirin didn't help. A week in the hospital and I realized that alcohol or not, I was exactly the same and had no cravings for beer or booze. After five years of not thinking about I tried an experiment and got drunk. Aside from a hangover, nothing changed. Now I drink if there's a good reason, such as a celebration or a particularly fine wine or liquor. There's no reason to guzzle beer all day, tap water works just fine.

 

My friend on the other hand slowly went from the party and social drinking scene to the fancy brands of vodka either alone in a bar or with a bottle at home. He had a high pressure suit and tie job, and when the alcohol got noticed at work, the company sent him to dry-out retreats. Three of them over the years. He even became a bigwig at local Alcoholics Anonymous meetings and sponsored other members. Twice. No matter how sober he made himself, it couldn't last. Every time he started drinking again, he would pick it up at the same pace as he left it. Then to make up for lost time, it accelerated, which is typical of alcoholism. Last March his landlord found him passed out on the floor in very bad shape and after two months in hospital and nursing home he was back on the AA track by July. He nearly died from that one. Back in September, he dropped by my place out of the blue which never happens. Drunk as a monkey... He thinks it's controllable, and knows how to control it. Yeah, right.....

 

That's a personal but small example I can offer as testimony that I know for damn sure that alcoholism is a disease, some folks got it, some don't. Those who do have a very hard time controlling or just can't. It's a brain thing, and it can be treated. It should not be taken lightly!

 

Sorry for the essay, the subject gets me going and I knew if I was going to read the thread I'd spew some gut. Beorn, by the way, that's Jim Morrison on your avatar, right? Do some research on his health and habits. Particulary see what Ray Manzarek has to say, I think he understands the devastation involved.

Meanwhile, good question, good post!

[JackLeonFraust]

the results speak for themselfs, human nature an all.

[dragburn]

my oppinion on this is that you cant catch drunk. pretty simple. there is not any physical force that lifts the can or bottle you your lips (especially the first encounter) . it is by your own free will that this happens and oops you happened to get addicted. the only real cure for anything that is addiction based is called willpower.

[conavar]

Having a Step Father who is a drunk i would just like to ask would the insurance cover the mental or pyshical abuse suffored by there spouses ?

[Mugwump]

Conavar, I beleive it should. Worldwide. Every individual on earth should have some value, and as a person with an illness effects those close by, those people should recieve treatment as well. Whatever treatment is needed.

 

In the U.S. we seem to be going overboard with some of these ideals.... no smoking anywhere, at all, ever, at least in many cities. This is all political..... they let folks drink like fish, possibly so they can be arrested, incarcerated and thus profitized. That's a looong story! But still there is no treatment for the addiction.

 

I have dear friend who worked for a big pharmaceutical company and drank himself into the company program. This was a fancy private hospital in the country with tennis, golf, and numerous fun distractions. I stood in as proxy for his family and got to visit weekly. There was family therapy, treatment, weekend events, great food, you name it! This, of course, was all private company insurance, and it cost neither him nor myself a single GP.

 

It was decadent, disgusting, and didn't work.... proper treatment for all people involved in alcoholism should be local, low key, inexpesive for governments, and free to all affected by the problem. No shame, no blame, just help on a local level. Just a hope.....

[Ateh]

Addiction to anything is awful, and if someone wants help of course it should be given.

 

But in a world where you can go and buy smokes and alcohol from a shop and be prescribed legal drugs for just about anything if you can convince the doc , who is helping who here?

 

If the governments wanted this world to be a cleaner, more fair place, they could have done it along time ago but you know what?

 

They dont want that ! Have a good long look around you, and I mean at the whole planet not just your City/Town/Country.

 

Does you honestly think the powers that be sit and wonder how they can make this world a safer and better place for mankind ?

 

Nope, they sit and think about ways to bring the population down , ways to genetically alter our food because if anyone is stupid enough to think Mother Nature has been doing a good enough job at creating food they need firing and ridiculing.

 

Look around you with an open heart and ask yourself if this is how WE THE PEOPLE really want things ?

 

Want more wars? More wierdo genetic food ? More cervical cancer vaccinnes for boys ?

 

Want some more power for them and less time to think for you ? How about a NEW WORLD ORDER ?

 

Want one of those? Want some fries with that ?

 

Getting back to addiction though and what it can do to people, I dont for one minute believe ending an addiction is easy. Speaking from personal experience this is how i see it, no amount of doctors apointments, counciling, prescriptions, health insurance, medi whatever is going to help you unless you want to help yourself. Unless you want to stop doing what your doing, and you REALLY mean it none of the above will make a damn of differance.

 

What could happen though is you get put on welfare because your ill, get given alot of free drugs cos the Doc says you need them, and then hey presto !! Youve got all the time in the world to wallow in how crap your life is !

 

Getting involved in your community, being around other people who have STOPPED being addicts and made some sort of life is whats needed. Not sitting in a rehab being asked why your life is a mess by someone you dont know.

 

But after all my rant is just a point of view, I think you need to help yourself, and by that i dont mean take more drugs to fight the drug addiction youve already got. I mean get off your ass and stop allowing yourself to ruin everyone elses life around you.

 

Thats the selfish part, people who think me me me when in fact its the people around you who love you who are suffering more seeing you destroy your only life.

 

Drugs are bad M'Kay

[Aphistolas]

I just read the first post, I'm far too lazy to read all of that ^^ .

 

an impairment of health or a condition of abnormal functioning

 

Being an alcoholic is an impairment, is it not?

 

[Analogy time]

 

Does one choose to be gay? Or does it just happen, like breathing?

 

Latter, it just happens.

 

[/Analogy time]

 

Although people should avoid drinking altogether, I doubt anyone chooses to become an alcoholic. I believe they should receive at least partial government funding.

[flexus]

Addiction is not a disease because is it brought on by yourself...nobody forced you to become addicted.

 

i agree... voted no

[Wizzy]

Voted Yes

 

Would be cheaper for the insurance companies to "treat" an alchoholic then pay for the cost of the effects of being an alcholic over time. 28 days in rehab, I am guessing, is much cheaper then a liver transplant?

 

Jumpy

[chaoticsmurf]

To start, I do not believe alcoholism is a choice or even has to do with "weak" willpower as some have pointed out. That being said, everyone's reaction to alcohol is different, similar to drugs. Some develope dependancies their very first time engaging in an action, where as others never do, or do only after extended use. Am I willing to condemn someone and deny them goverment assistance cause they chose to drink once, and based on their genes, or chemical make up of their brain, became dependant on alcohol...no. With that being said...is this realistic? No. I seriously doubt I will ever see the day this happens in America. You have a chance of relapse etc, so it's not always a "one rehab fix" If this were ever to be implemented or something similar chances are the insurance premiums would skyrocket (not that they are cheap now) But this post wasn't about something being realistic, it was about should it happen. I do think it should, but where do you draw the line. Drug addicts? Pill poppers? 1 rehab, 2 rehab, 3 rehabs, unlimited rehabs?

[Fedora]

Just a few notes:

 

- addiction IS a desease: the addicted patient has pain togheter with all sort of metabolic changes if the drug is not given

 

- falling into an addiction is partly genetically determined (enzymes for alchool management) and partly is given by your education (self-awareness, education, moral, tradition...).

 

- never draw a line between what is physical and mental...they are two aspects of the same thing we are looking at, simply we havent the innate ability of seeing it as a unique thing (as energy and matter). A mental illness is based on a organic failure somewhere (brain, neuroreceptors...) and that failure changes the chemical of the body affecting it. And viceversa.

 

- about the religion of AA...try to substitute the word "God" with "that thing which is made of my Thought and my Body" and it all makes sense. It is just a psychological device to let and addict regain contact with himself and with what alcool is doing to the Body and the Thought. And beside, it works in a good percentage of cases...while you cant say this for any religion principles.

 

 

And before you start the flame, i'm a medicine student (almost finished) and at least for the first 3 points I can give scientific evidence. So yes, addiction rehab should be covered as it falls in desease category.

Edited January 4, 2008 by Fedora

[Entropy]

Well, if you have money to buy booxe, you have money to pay for your own rehab. Voted no.

 

BTW, I have no health insurance, so it doesn't affect me in any way.