Make current gloves armor instead of weapon

[Roja]

Hey guys,

 

Ok this is really bugging me that we have leather/chain/steel gloves that are used as weapons instead of armor. I think it makes more sense for them to be armor, and for you to be able to carry a weapon while wearing the gloves.

 

Now sure, some of these gloves CAN be used as weapons(chain or steel gloves would hurt to get punched with), but overall...they're used for defense.

 

We WILL have other gloves in the future that will be used for attack, and they will be shown on you when you wear them. So there seems to be almost no point in keeping the current ones as they are, but they are there....

 

So...I thought I'd make this poll to see what others think of this idea.

[GateKeepeR]

I voted for them to be defense, but this is under the condition that we can still hold a sword while wearing gloves, I mean think about it, how hard would it be to hold a sword while wearing some gloves, its physically possible, I can see why you cant have both as attack because you're attacking with a sword and not your hands, etc. etc.

[Entropy]

Given the fact that we don't have subunitary armor rates, makign the gloves armor would mean that the leather gloves should give as much armor as a wooden shield.

[Pb_Zeppelin]

re-scale the armours..tehehe..(looks at ent and thinks...too much work eh)

[Killerlamb]

How about they are defense and offense if you don't have a sword

[Grum]

Given the fact that we don't have subunitary armor rates, makign the gloves armor would mean that the leather gloves should give as much armor as a wooden shield.

 

Maybe, but since the leather gloves already have another use (harvesting cactus? Or do you need fur gloves for that?), you might consider not giving any armor points to normal leather gloves at all.

[duran]

hmm, any chance of getting something else then the 2x3 box of boxes to equip on? like say a crude human shape maybe?

 

oh and about those gloves, where will the daggers fit given that gloves and other weapons are very close to eatch other?

 

will most other gloves be replaced by daggers and the leather gloves turned into something similar to a pickaxe?

[sander]

I don't vote (yet). It's a bit tricky actually. Not being able to wear lether gloves makes just as little sense as to do have the ablility to wear chain gloves with a quaterstaff or smaller swords.

 

Have you ever had chain or steel gloves on? Anything but the most basic weapon handling abilities (for your hands) is impossible. Don't even think about swinging a quaterstaff around with chain gloves. Let alone use a bow or something. Traditional knight weapons (long swords, lances) are less of a problem. You just need to grip those. No need for intricate finger dexterity. I would vote to give steel and chain gloves a -1 on dexterity/agility or something if you can use them in combination with weapons.

 

There's also another ingame issue to consider. Gloves are cheap weapons right now. The one above it is (I think) a wooden staff at 25.000(?). No newbie would be able to have a weapon. If you make gloves armor, make some new low-level weapons for newbies. Knives (1000 gp), small daggers (2000 gp) come to mind as possible choices.

 

I think Roja has a point that it makes no sense not to be able to wear leather gloves with weapons though. Here's a nice solution proposal:

 

divide weapons and armor in 2 categories: light and heavy.

 

for this example, (studded) leather gloves, letaher armor, studded armor, splintmail armor would be light armor. chain and steel gloves and chain shirts, platemail heavy armor. quarterstaffs, daggers, bows, short swords would be light weapons, axes, hammers, big swords, lances would be heavy weapons.

 

you can use any light armor with any light weapon

you can use any light armot with any heavy weapon

you can use any heavy armor with any heavy weapon

you CANNOT use heavy armor with light weapons

[Roja]

good idea sander! now let's hope Entropy likes the idea too, since he's the one that implements this stuff

[sander]

Thanks for the compliment Roja

[Aerowind]

I voted yes for armor but if it does beomce armor would we still be able to use shields with the gloves no one asked about that yet

[Felix]

If you've actually seen iron/steel gauntlets, they are usually worn over leather ones and only cover the back of your fingers & hand, giving the wearer armour on thier weapon hand while not encumbering the grip of the sword (to a certain degree) chain gloves don't really make any sense at all, the only place I've ever seen them is in a freezing works...

 

definitly armour, and existing armour should be scaled up to compensate.. if thats too much work you should have used defines entropy!! (this is coded in C++ right?)

[Grum]

I think it's coded in plain C. And i don't think the problem is technical, in the sence that he has to change it in a lot of places, but that he has to not only rescale the armor, but also the weapons, the monster strengths, and everything related to it. And it's very easy to destabilize a system in that way.

 

That being said: couldn't we just rescale all weapons/armor by a factor 10, so that there is some breathing room for weapons in between the existing ones? Or are there too many dependencies with other items/skills?

[sander]

Scaling them with a afctor 10 would also mean scaling all hitpoints with 10, so you would have to rescale the skill system as well.

 

Maybe only the stronger weapons should be rescaled to allow for more vaiety in between. Or you start mixing more weapon attributes. EG:

 

knife: +1 to hit

small dagger: +1 damage

dagger: +1 damage, +1 to hit

spiked gloves: +1 damage +1 defense

swordbreaker: +1 to hit, +1 defense

sicle: +1 damage, +1 to hit, -1 agility

 

voilá. 6 newbie weapons within the current scale. no +2 attributes. If I were to mix +1, +2 and -1 attributes I could probabely come up with at least 10-15 more weapons.

[Grum]

Scaling them with a afctor 10 would also mean scaling all hitpoints with 10, so you would have to rescale the skill system as well.

 

Not necessarily. When doing combat you could scale the damage back again. I don't know how the combat system is implemented, so it's hard to comment on that, though.

 

knife: +1 to hit

small dagger: +1 damage

dagger: +1 damage, +1 to hit

spiked gloves: +1 damage +1 defense

swordbreaker: +1 to hit, +1 defense

sicle: +1 damage, +1 to hit, -1 agility

 

voilá. 6 newbie weapons within the current scale. no +2 attributes. If I were to mix +1, +2 and -1 attributes I could probabely come up with at least 10-15 more weapons.

 

True, but that's all you can do within the current limits. BTW, I notice you've also given up on using normal leather gloves as armor/weapons.

[sander]

Since I can come up with enough alternatives for newbie weapons, I vote for gloves being armor (except some gloves. Like spiked gloves). Especially if it is possible to subclass armor and weapons like I suggested in my first post in this thread.

[duran]

the normal leather gloves could be mode tool gloves with maybe a negative damage bonus

 

the enhanced gloves could be renamed to spiked gloves and be some basis weapon.

 

the chain and plate gloves could easy be made armor and become a cheap alternative to shields...

[Grum]

Sounds reasonable to me.

[Felix]

Grum, all that can be done using defines, although that is a LOT of pre-planning and I know I wouldn't have done it that way

 

looking out for some wolverine-claws in the "weapon" class gloves

[Grum]

Yes felix, that's true. And you don't even need defines for that, in principle. But as you say, that takes a LOT!! of pre-planning...

[Learner]

What if when you have gloves & some other armor, you only get the defense benefits of gloves?

[BloodSucker]

Uh-oh, i know, this topic is kinda old... but I was thinking about gauntlets/gloves lately, so i pushed the search button...

 

All right... back to the topic...

I was wondering why aren't we able to wear both gloves, and weapons/shields at the same time, and also, why gloves are treated as weapons?

 

In simple meaning, gloves should be a part of armor.

There could be some new gloves/gauntlets added, simple and quite cheap items, that would add few defence points and maybe decrease accuracy.

[master jeweler]

In college I was in fencing, yes gloves are a very important part of your armor. I still carry a scar on my knuckle from fighting without gloves on.

[Atlantis]

leather gloves==armor

make brass knucks for wep

[JohnTheWarder]

I maybe wrong but i could have sworn some writer said it was impossible to have gloves on and use a wep due to EL system. I could be wrong, I hope so because i really want to wear gloves and sword at same time

Edited September 9, 2006 by JohnTheWarder