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Ghengas

dysfuntional market system

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Yes but fighterjim can only sell off his surplus stock of weapons/armours to fightern00b

 

fightern00b however has a LOT of offers from fighterjack/john/joneses and manuermark/michael/memphisto so the chances of fighterjim actually MAKING a sale that keeps the gc rolling his way is slim to none.

 

If this small but significant problem is addressed, there will be much greatly fluidity to the market cashflow.

 

And a lot of fighterjims worries will disappear. As will his surplus st00f, allowing him to spend his sudden increase in gc from sales on the things he needs to keep on fighting teh good fight.

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Well we are trying to clarify you that there is nothing wrong with the current system for fighters. You should be able to make enough money to 100% fight! If the drops were even bigger the money would flood the market and will be worthless.

 

that simply is not true...if you like i'll give you the password for my char and you can find out for yourself.

 

Yes but fighterjim can only sell off his surplus stock of weapons/armours to fightern00b

 

fightern00b however has a LOT of offers from fighterjack/john/joneses and manuermark/michael/memphisto so the chances of fighterjim actually MAKING a sale that keeps the gc rolling his way is slim to none.

 

If this small but significant problem is addressed, there will be much greatly fluidity to the market cashflow.

 

And a lot of fighterjims worries will disappear. As will his surplus st00f, allowing him to spend his sudden increase in gc from sales on the things he needs to keep on fighting teh good fight.

 

i lub when pple word things so much more beutifully than i can :dry::) do you practice law?

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Well we are trying to clarify you that there is nothing wrong with the current system for fighters. You should be able to make enough money to 100% fight! If the drops were even bigger the money would flood the market and will be worthless.

 

that simply is not true...if you like i'll give you the password for my char and you can find out for yourself.

 

I fought a little today:

 

180 ogres

170He

60SRS

 

Drops:

 

2500gc (plain gc)

3 steel longs

2 iron broads

bp cloack

iron battle hammer

 

So about 7kgc worth from drops (gc+stuff)

The stuff I used costed about 1,5kgc

 

So actually I have 5,5kgc to buy armor from! And that each fight, while I broke NOTHING(!!) in 2 sessions so far, so I already have 10kgc profit...

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Wait until you start on ogre. Start on them at the right lvls, and they give you a taste of what's to come. They'll break some of your stuff here and there. If you're smart, you'll at least start carrying an extra chain with you to the spawn. But it goes downhill from there. Hit cyclops at the right lvls and they will show you a new meaning for stuff breaking. You got it pretty easy for now. Enjoy it.

 

You're refusing to see my point here. The orcs I train on, are a specific example from my own experience, to indicate that I do know something about the subject. I have a number of friends, with varying a/d levels whose experiences I can also use as examples. Using your example of ogres, I know many fighters who can break even training on them. One friend, who was playing as a pure fighter, made enough money from the gc drops, and selling the weapon/armor drops to Trik, to replace all his lost supplies and equipment and still have some left over. In fact, he actually made a decent profit, as I gave him good deals on supplies in exchange for his services as a mule. Remember, this game is about interaction, it should be easy enough to find a friend who will do the same sort of favours. It is entirely possible to make money as a pure fighter, and if you are not, you need to change your strategy.

 

For example, correct me if I'm wrong, but for every hit you take, your armor has a chance to break, right? So, the more hits you take, the higher chance there is of you breaking your armor. If you are breaking huge amounts of armor, you're obviously fighting something which hits you a lot, and is therefore too high for you to be fighting. Even if you do lose some equipment, its not terribly expensive to replace, assuming you aren't training in anything above steel chain - don't train in anything you can't afford to lose. If you're training on something which causes you to restore more than once a fight, the same is true. My point is, that if you insist on fighting things above your levels for better exp you will make losses, and it is entirely possible to make decent exp AND gold as a pure fighter. If you want to make big money, you'll need to take on another skill.

 

Taking alchemy as an oft quoted example of a great money maker. Look at HEs, they go for about 6/7gc on the market these days. Silver costs 2gc, and flowers 1gc on the market, total 5gc in ingredients. So profit per essence is 1 or 2gc (not counting feasting potions costs). Doesn't sound like a huge money maker to me. In order to make any sort of money at alchemy, an alchemist has to harvest all their own ingredients - they have to focus on a second skill (harvesting) to make a decent amount of gold.

 

And here is my point, most skills you can chose to break even or make losses to get exp, or you can put time into another skill in order to make profits. Why should fighting be any different? And my point is that it is, if one adopts the proper strategy, it is possible to make money and exp at fighting. We need to see additions which will balance things for the other skills instead of pouring more money into the fighters pockets. And I agree, the summoners have the most right to complain. :P

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Well we are trying to clarify you that there is nothing wrong with the current system for fighters. You should be able to make enough money to 100% fight! If the drops were even bigger the money would flood the market and will be worthless.

 

that simply is not true...if you like i'll give you the password for my char and you can find out for yourself.

 

I fought a little today:

 

180 ogres

170He

60SRS

 

Drops:

 

2500gc (plain gc)

3 steel longs

2 iron broads

bp cloack

iron battle hammer

 

So about 7kgc worth from drops (gc+stuff)

The stuff I used costed about 1,5kgc

 

So actually I have 5,5kgc to buy armor from! And that each fight, while I broke NOTHING(!!) in 2 sessions so far, so I already have 10kgc profit...

 

Hmmm...

 

cycloonx

Main Attributes

Physique: 20/20

Coordination: 36/36

 

Skills

Attack: 63/63

Defense: 69/69

 

I bet you have a really tough time with those ogres :P

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And "training" alch, manu, crafting lvl arent? you make money when you train those lvls.

What game are YOU playing? :P Other than harvesting, alch, and combat, training a skill is a money sink. No profits.

 

Edit:

1. This "problem" is not unique to fighters.

2. This game is not designed to make one skill only self-sufficient.

 

Aislinn said it perfectly... When I 'train' manu I can either make leather helms and break even taking ages to gain one lvl, or I can make leather pants and lose gc gaining that lvl almost twice as fast. For every 1k leather pants I make and sell to trik I lose over 5k gc.(This does not include the cost of feasts) Guess how many I have to make to get the lvl I am currently working on....3k. How do I make up for the over 15k gc I will lose getting this manu lvl? I will most likely make and sell HE on market. Either method of training manu does not give me huge amounts of xp for the time I spend doing it. For the 3k pants needed for this lvl I have to mule a little over 21k leather, 30k thread and a bit over 500 feasts. After taking several hours to make them gaining 228k xp then I have to mule all 3k pants to trik, and since they don't stack that is about 86 trips. The whole process takes several days, even at the amount of time I spend here.

 

I tell everyone this, I am not a pker, so I can't comment on that side of things for profitablility. Currently I train on Tigers, Trolls, Ogers, Polar Bears etc. depending on what gear I want to use and the kind of xp and drops I am after. The last time I fought Trolls and Ogres I got enough in drops to cover the ti long that got degraded and the cost of the feasts to make all the esses/sr's/ leather items that were destroyed. Yes, I'm an all-arounder, but my lvls are low on some skills and I still fail alot making pots. What's my point? Well, just like when training manu I rely on other skills to help fund the current skill I am working on.

 

I'll repeat this quote from Aislinn:

1. This "problem" is not unique to fighters.

2. This game is not designed to make one skill only self-sufficient.

 

If you want a to be able to be a pure fighter then maybe this isn't the game for you.

 

Just my opinion based on my experience in the game.

 

Oh, and a side note: FighterJim does not have to take anti-social perk. No one is forcing them to do so. If they choose not to take the perk then they can sell some of their weapon drops to Trik for additional gc and keeping those items out of the general market flow.

 

EDIT: closed a tag

Edited by CelticLady

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Cyc - you're assuming you can sell all, so let's be fair - there are a lot of people who are antisocial, and someone probably told fighterjim that if he ever wanted to be a good PKer, he had to take antisocial for the 10 "free" pickpoints. So, he realizes now that he's done this, a major outlet for much of his resources just simply won't let him have that outlet, so he whines that his choice has cost him dearly. :P And since weapons don't necessarily sell well...

 

Let's for the sake of argument call him a greedy hoarder, and say he only has the gc that he'll spend. With Cycloon's example, fighterjim is still ahead about 1k.

 

Anotehr thing I find disturbing is the assumption that "fighter" means PKer. Maybe fighterjohnny just wants to fight chimmies eventually, never attacking players - does that make him less of a fighter?

 

For monster training/fighting, there is a simple answer to earning more gc while you fight. If you aren't making enough coinage, for the most part, it's because you're training harder than you can handle. If you are breaking armor very often, or restoring after every monster, or whatnot, you simply put should back down to something you can handle easier if you are looking for gold. In this case, as others, you trade gold for exp, or exp for gold.

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Exactly what I've been saying Arnie, if you aren't making gold, you are training on something too high. If you want to make more gc stick with something lower - you still get not too bad exp, and make money in the process. More than can be said for other skills, just look at CelticLady's example of manufacturing (kudos to ya girly, manu is driving me mad already, lol).

 

And anti-social fighterjim, needs to make friends with non anti-social alcherbob, who'll sell those drops to Trik for him. :) (Yes, the friend I used as an example had anti-social, and I was quite happy to sell his drops to Trik, because I knew the money would be used to buy supplies from me :P)

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Hmmm...

 

cycloonx

Main Attributes

Physique: 20/20

Coordination: 36/36

 

Skills

Attack: 63/63

Defense: 69/69

 

I bet you have a really tough time with those ogres :)

 

Now that's what I'm trying to say all the time... Don't take monsters you can't fight very well, if you need 1-2 heals per monsters you are definately on the wrong one! I made 250k exp on 1 hour 40 minutes AND made decent money. If you can do better let me know :P

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Hmmm...

 

cycloonx

Main Attributes

Physique: 20/20

Coordination: 36/36

 

Skills

Attack: 63/63

Defense: 69/69

 

I bet you have a really tough time with those ogres :dry:

 

Now that's what I'm trying to say all the time... Don't take monsters you can't fight very well, if you need 1-2 heals per monsters you are definately on the wrong one! I made 250k exp on 1 hour 40 minutes AND made decent money. If you can do better let me know :(

 

 

as far as the xp goes, i can beat that...as far as making money off it goes, pour your wisdom upon me, oh great dahli lamba of ogre murdering :P

 

besides arguing over petty details, i think the majority of people would say training a/d and/or pking in general is a money drain, which creates some of the problems i have spoken of time and time again in this thread, and the straight up truth is that increasing the capabilities to make profit off of training/pking/whatever type of fighting could help the market flow considerably better.

 

it is beyond difficult to say something on these forums without someone nit-picking over petty details and starting arguments. :angry:

Edited by Ghengas

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Hmmm...

 

cycloonx

Main Attributes

Physique: 20/20

Coordination: 36/36

 

Skills

Attack: 63/63

Defense: 69/69

 

I bet you have a really tough time with those ogres :(

 

Now that's what I'm trying to say all the time... Don't take monsters you can't fight very well, if you need 1-2 heals per monsters you are definately on the wrong one! I made 250k exp on 1 hour 40 minutes AND made decent money. If you can do better let me know :P

 

Umm lets see the screenie on that plz :angry:

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Ghengas, the debate has not been arguing over petty details. The point has been that you can make adequate exp AND adequate money by monster training, if you adopt the appropriate strategy.

 

Yes, its possible if you increase the money going into fighter's pockets, it may filter down to the alchers, potioners and manuers, as the fighters have more money to spend. But to be perfectly honest, from my own experiences, everyone in this game is a cheapskate. :( (including me :P) I rather expect that fighters who make their own essences, potions etc. will continue to do so, since they've already put effort into those skills, and will hoard the extra money they are getting.

 

The point has been, that fighting is fairly well balanced in terms of exp and gc gain - there is a definite scale where you can lean towards better exp or better money. We need to see similar things in the other skills, rather than players having to pour money into a skill in order to reach one of the 'sweet spots' that Cordelia mentioned.

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Hmmm...

 

cycloonx

Main Attributes

Physique: 20/20

Coordination: 36/36

 

Skills

Attack: 63/63

Defense: 69/69

 

I bet you have a really tough time with those ogres :angry:

 

Now that's what I'm trying to say all the time... Don't take monsters you can't fight very well, if you need 1-2 heals per monsters you are definately on the wrong one! I made 250k exp on 1 hour 40 minutes AND made decent money. If you can do better let me know :(

 

Umm lets see the screenie on that plz ;)

 

Well I don't make screenies of each regular thing I do ingame :P And I don't see any reason why I should lie about those things, I'm pretty sure more people of my levels can just tell you the same :dry:

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I can get roughly 160k per hour with training, probably more once I get my p/c back up (reset) and train on what I'm supposed to be.

 

There are some people in game that can get 1 or even 2 mil xp per day, it's not that entirely uncommon. Given they tend to play longer hours than others :icon13:

 

edit: grammar

Edited by Evalin

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So basicly what we have summoned up here is that NO ONE makes

Much* money in this game unless they are: Drumroll... Alchers!

 

The Manuers have talked... and they say they dont make money...

 

The Crafters havent talked....but ghrae says he doesnt make much money...

 

The Fighters have also talked.... Thats obvious...

 

The Summoners have talked... and can bitch and do whatever they want... they lose the most money (Props to the summoners, you worked that hardest and spent the most)

 

The Potioneers have/havent talked (I dont remeber) but I guees they make some money

 

The Harvesters havent directly talked and the make money if they arent Antisocial which alot of fighters are...

 

You can do/say anything about this list, but this list is only from my observation

 

,Knight

 

EDIT: * means it was edited

Edited by The_Knight

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I can get roughly 160k per hour with training, probably more once I get my p/c back up (reset) and train on what I'm supposed to be.

 

There are some people in game that can get 1 or even 2 mil xp per day, it's not that entirely uncommon. Given they tend to play longer hours than others :icon13:

 

edit: grammar

 

irrelevant....?

 

 

So basicly what we have summoned up here is that NO ONE makes

Much* money in this game unless they are: Drumroll... Alchers!

 

The Manuers have talked... and they say they dont make money...

 

The Crafters havent talked....but ghrae says he doesnt make much money...

 

The Fighters have also talked.... Thats obvious...

 

The Summoners have talked... and can bitch and do whatever they want... they lose the most money (Props to the summoners, you worked that hardest and spent the most)

 

The Potioneers have/havent talked (I dont remeber) but I guees they make some money

 

The Harvesters havent directly talked and the make money if they arent Antisocial which alot of fighters are...

 

You can do/say anything about this list, but this list is only from my observation

 

,Knight

 

EDIT: * means it was edited

 

 

um..... :hehe:

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Actually, read up, I've already said that alching isn't the big money skill that everyone seems to think it is. It only makes a decent amount of money if you harvest the ingredients yourself. Same goes for potioners. So technically, harvesting is whats making the most money. Fighting is one of the few skills that you can make money using only that skill, simply by varying your strategy.

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It's quite simple :icon13:

As they all used to say: Time = Money

 

If you make everything yourself from scratch, except for some rare items you always make money... You seem to be looking for the fastest way. Which seems to be Alchemy. Since you only need 1 ore and 1 flower (type) to make essences, while manufacturing without buying stuff (so no leather) takes alot more ore, fire essences and coal. Same for crafting. Potions are different, especially with the lost vials. But the sell price is high enough to cover the ingredients you have to buy.

About your list... Don't generalise everything. It depends how you work on the skill. One thing I agree with, summoning is losing money. (Or starting from scratch, again alot of time, but you'll never make profit with it)

And what I think, fighting makes big profit... Or that's because I make everything from scratch so I can make up all broken armor/used essences and potions/... I still believe fighting is best for money.

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SO now we got more input... Alchers dont make money says Terena...

Which means No one makes any money whatsoever in this game the only way to make money is... Time?

,Knight

 

Then where does the money come from?

If no one makes money here, then we all need a better way to make money, boost all profits of Alchers, Manuers, Crafters and Fighters!

If you cant please one skill please them all.

Knight

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Euhm, time is not litterally money, just...omg...are you that stupid? I said if you take your time to train your skills in the right way, they all make money, except for summoning.

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Time is money when you spend it the right ways, and thats what I meant. Sometimes I just walk around c2 and explore. There is no way to make money that way. I could have speant that time making Health essence, then I would make money.

What I meant was Time does equal money when speant the right way.

And I dont spend my time the right way sometimes.

,Knight

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Hmmm...

 

cycloonx

Main Attributes

Physique: 20/20

Coordination: 36/36

 

Skills

Attack: 63/63

Defense: 69/69

 

I bet you have a really tough time with those ogres :dry:

 

Now that's what I'm trying to say all the time... Don't take monsters you can't fight very well, if you need 1-2 heals per monsters you are definately on the wrong one! I made 250k exp on 1 hour 40 minutes AND made decent money. If you can do better let me know :icon13:

 

Umm lets see the screenie on that plz ;)

 

 

I can get roughly 160k per hour with training, probably more once I get my p/c back up (reset) and train on what I'm supposed to be.

 

There are some people in game that can get 1 or even 2 mil xp per day, it's not that entirely uncommon. Given they tend to play longer hours than others :D

 

edit: grammar

 

irrelevant....?

 

I was responding to the person who was asking for proof as if it were un-realistic that someone could get 250k per hour and 40 min. Tell me again, how my post was irrelevant?

 

edit: oi... i botched the quotes on this one up bad (fixed) :)

Edited by Evalin

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On the test server I tried pumping up my phys so i had 56/36 p/c, and I made about 220-230k exp per hour on a single-fluff spawn (if it was a double spawn I'd make even more), and only 6 restores per hour. So I can get about 2 million OA exp before I have to restock, and make a profit of about 1kgc per hour.

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