So, what do we think about the new changes?

[Entropy]

Hey Ent,

 

I read that article you wrote about the History of EL.

 

Didn't you say in that article that one of the main lessons you learned was to NOT LISTEN TO THE USERS when a change is implemented? And to go ahead and do things anyways? ^.^

 

-Delia

 

Of course. But as I explained a few times on this thread, the things I wanted to keep I kept (no vials, the harm and mana drain spell), and the things I thought would be nice for the players, but without a major economical implication, such as the increased mana from that potion, were removed.

[Scyth]

thats why you make it for nexuses only

still that would incorporate new strategy i can add pp to say.. potion and train w/ making pot then when i was done i could remove pp and add them to p/c or such..i am not against it at all i am for it but there is alot of ground to be covered..thats all

 

Then how about the cost would be 50k vials.. LMAO J/k

[Infamous]

just lowering the mana potion to 5 isn't going to help Entropy...

if i use Sr's on training now i get 2-3k gc from drops (now it costs 18k gc for 1k Sr)

now if i use mana potions (even if it is only 5 EP) then i get ~5k (only lose 80gc for wine cuz i make mana potions at spawn)

so i use mana potions NOT Sr's.

potioners lose their main product, so potioners are unhappy.

 

wouldn't you bitch if you lost your main source of income?

Note: i am NO potioner.

if oyu don't want the potions skill to be almost useless then i suggest to raise the Sr's EP so ppl will use it for training again. (people need to buy more Sr's then, potioners get to sell their main product, so their happy)

 

besides keeping mana pots at 10 EP and increasing Sr's EP isn't the end of the world ;*D

[Entropy]

just lowering the mana potion to 5 isn't going to help Entropy...

 

LOL, pwned!

Of course it's not going to help you guys, which is why I was more than happy to return it to the way it was.

Next time maybe people should not complain when they get a gift.

And if I hear more "I use mana potions not SRs", I'll make the mana potions give 2 mana, so you will use SRs.

BTW, a vial cost 3 gold and 4 quartz, not 8gc as you mentioned earlier in this thread. Yes, you are antisocial, but then again, you expected to get 10 PP for free?

 

besides keeping mana pots at 10 EP and increasing Sr's EP isn't the end of the world ;*D

 

Nor is reducing the mp to 2 mana.

[chaoogie]

:pokes teH b34r!: do it radu :> i needa sell my srs heh

[Infamous]

just lowering the mana potion to 5 isn't going to help Entropy...

 

LOL, pwned!

Of course it's not going to help you guys, which is why I was more than happy to return it to the way it was.

Next time maybe people should not complain when they get a gift.

And if I hear more "I use mana potions not SRs", I'll make the mana potions give 2 mana, so you will use SRs.

BTW, a vial cost 3 gold and 4 quartz, not 8gc as you mentioned earlier in this thread*. Yes, you are antisocial, but then again, you expected to get 10 PP for free?

 

besides keeping mana pots at 10 EP and increasing Sr's EP isn't the end of the world ;*D

 

Nor is reducing the mp to 2 mana.**

 

? please explain how taking someone elses main source of income is a gift?

 

*I am on the market channel all the time, if someone asks for a price check on vials ppl reply 8gc each.

(besides quartz sells for 2gc each so from harvy would be more expensive)

**problem is not the mana potion it is the Sr that's the problem at the moment.

 

don't get me wrong i'm trying to help, but if you reply like this and aren't willing to consider the possibility's other ppl mention, then why even ask for opinions anyway?

[Entropy]

? please explain how taking someone elses main source of income is a gift?

 

*I am on the market channel all the time, if someone asks for a price check on vials ppl reply 8gc each.

(besides quartz sells for 2gc each so from harvy would be more expensive)

**problem is not the mana potion it is the Sr that's the problem at the moment.

 

Anyone sharing his point of view?

[chaoogie]

i kinda see his point on the mana pots at 10 ep would hurt the sales of srs but honestly srs are being sold at 10gc+vial iirc last time i went on market channel... so dont see why people would sell less... noR do i see how someones MAIN SOURCE of income could be srs, unless they sold to guild mates for a decent price.

Edited July 13, 2006 by chaoogie

[Lotheneil]

? please explain how taking someone elses main source of income is a gift?

 

*I am on the market channel all the time, if someone asks for a price check on vials ppl reply 8gc each.

(besides quartz sells for 2gc each so from harvy would be more expensive)

**problem is not the mana potion it is the Sr that's the problem at the moment.

 

Anyone sharing his point of view?

 

I don't know, I'm too young player to tell, I know though that it's a quite common oppinion. But now even if someone thinks like that, he won't tell you, cause he'll be too afraid to do so...

On the other hand, making vials 4q+3gp (from 5q+3gp) is a good thing, thank you for that.

EDIT: I'm afraid it's still 5 quartz per vial... and I just hoped... fine anyway.

Edited July 13, 2006 by Lotheneil

[Desertus]

? please explain how taking someone elses main source of income is a gift?

 

*I am on the market channel all the time, if someone asks for a price check on vials ppl reply 8gc each.

(besides quartz sells for 2gc each so from harvy would be more expensive)

**problem is not the mana potion it is the Sr that's the problem at the moment.

 

Anyone sharing his point of view?

 

Im potioner and I agree that SRS are my main source of income, therefore making MP better SRS would kick me out of bussines since you cant make a living on other pots.

 

Vials are 8gc each now, Vials from Harvy are 13gc or more since you need to work much more to get them.

 

The only problem with srs is that you lose vial after drinking them not EPs they give you or cooldown on them, but i can live with that(I also train a/d or magic so that mean more costs for me too), but if that makes other people use MPs, then IMO MPs must tweaked to level where it is potion for newbs again.

[chaoogie]

you realize it only costs you time to harvest those quartz for the vails right... yes you could sell them for gc if so, then buy vials with the gc

[Lorck]

I think that when i was newb vials was cheaper at harvy, like 1 quartz + 3 gc, but i am not sure about it.

[carone]

? please explain how taking someone elses main source of income is a gift?

 

*I am on the market channel all the time, if someone asks for a price check on vials ppl reply 8gc each.

(besides quartz sells for 2gc each so from harvy would be more expensive)

**problem is not the mana potion it is the Sr that's the problem at the moment.

 

Anyone sharing his point of view?

Absolutely.

I don't sell SRS myself because I use them when I train but I know that it's pretty much the only potion you can make money with. A mana potion at 10 would make the SRS almost completely useless, and feel free to PK me for this comment but it's not all about the fighters all the time.

Yes, it would've made fighting a bit easier, but if everyone would stop being so damn selfish all the time and bitch everytime a decision was made that makes their own lives a tiny bit harder without considering what it means for the whole game, many things, not only fighting, could have been so much nicer already. Don't look at the direct consequences to your way of playing, try to look at the big picture when you comment about changes to the game.

 

Anyway, one suggestion while we're talking about potions. How about making BR potions stackable but at the same time lower the price at Mira a little bit so it doesn't turn into a money machine and/or increase emu, or increase amount of HP they restore(maybe this could be discussed in another thread?). They're pretty much useless for most players especially now that prices are going up because of the vials being lost. It would be nice to have another potion in the game people can use and potioners can make money with.

 

And about the price of vials at the moment. May I suggest lowering the required quartz for one vial to 3? At 5 quartz+3gc for one vial it's a big pain to buy them. The change is just so huge all of a sudden, we're going from vials being free(comes with feasting potion) to costing 3gc+5quartz.

 

Let the flaming begin!

[Knuckles]

Bah!

 

All you lot moaning, I liked Mana Pots at 10 mana each.

[The_Piper]

And about the price of vials at the moment. May I suggest lowering the required quartz for one vial to 3? At 5 quartz+3gc for one vial it's a big pain to buy them. The change is just so huge all of a sudden, we're going from vials being free(comes with feasting potion) to costing 3gc+5quartz.

 

Let the flaming begin!

 

I dont care about the amount of quartz that cutthroat Harvy wants for one vial, let it be 1, 3 or 10, who cares. Only a few steps away from Harvy is white quartz, so feel free to take a pickaxe with you and harvest as much as you need.

 

Oh, youre not a harvester, dont have the knowledge to mine quartz? Then buy the vials from the specialists for a reasonable price!

 

So, maybe lowering the goldcoins Harvy wants for one vial would help the potion makers to get affordable vials.

 

Piper

[luciferx]

Sorry to go back to the original topic... I love the kill counter and new monsters stuffs I took off work today because I stayed up all night killing yeti (its 7:20 AM now) . See screenie I just killed Yeti # 400!

 

My Kill counter

[Ermabwed]

Sorry to go back to the original topic... I love the kill counter and new monsters stuffs I took off work today because I stayed up all night killing yeti (its 7:20 AM now) . See screenie I just killed Yeti # 400!

 

My Kill counter

And did you get one of the new potion book yet? pm me if so

 

Oh and more on topic: SRs are really the big seller in potions. I'll wait and see what will happen with market now that mana potions are back at 5 (and then I'll use my abnormal stack of vials ). Hope we'll get the manuable vials anyways now

Other than that, great work on 1.3.0

[KibblesAndBits]

Bah!

 

All you lot moaning, I liked Mana Pots at 10 mana each.

 

every1 that didnt have 4 veg nexus did which is majority so i think it should be brought back

Edited July 13, 2006 by KibblesAndBits

[carone]

And about the price of vials at the moment. May I suggest lowering the required quartz for one vial to 3? At 5 quartz+3gc for one vial it's a big pain to buy them. The change is just so huge all of a sudden, we're going from vials being free(comes with feasting potion) to costing 3gc+5quartz.

 

Let the flaming begin!

 

I dont care about the amount of quartz that cutthroat Harvy wants for one vial, let it be 1, 3 or 10, who cares. Only a few steps away from Harvy is white quartz, so feel free to take a pickaxe with you and harvest as much as you need.

 

Oh, youre not a harvester, dont have the knowledge to mine quartz? Then buy the vials from the specialists for a reasonable price!

 

So, maybe lowering the goldcoins Harvy wants for one vial would help the potion makers to get affordable vials.

 

Piper

The point is that with 500 carry capacity, for example, right now you can get only 50 vials with a full load of quartz. It simply takes too long to walk even that short distance and harvest a full load of quartz(even with a high harvest level that's a few minutes) for a mere 50 vials. The amount of quartz and the time involved in getting it is what sets the price for a vial not really the 3gc. Otherwise quartz wouldn't be traded for 2gc in the market like everything else that weighs 2 emu, it would be free.

[MagpieLee]

a really high cooldown would be nasty for newbies.

 

just do mana pots 10 EP Sr's 30 EP and continue ur plan Entropy ;o

 

EXACTLY.

 

I don't think people wanted Mana potions to go back to 5. I think they wanted SRs to be 25-30mana.

 

When Mana potions give 10 mana:

Mana potions

10 mana

Faster cooldown

Less food to make

Less ingreds to make

Returns vial

Never fails

0 Vegetal and little or no skill required

 

SRs

20 mana

Slower Cooldown

More food to make

More ingreds to make

No vial return

Small % of fail.

4 Vegetal and some good potioning skill

 

Do you see now how this makes Mana potions will truely be better then SRs if mana potions were at 10 mana? Its crystal clear. People can make them at spawn with less carrying of food and ingreds which mean longer, more efficient a/d/monster training and you can carry more loot; SR makers will have to carry more food, ingreds AND vials.

Increase the SRs give mana to 25 (or 30 if you dare) and mirror the changes to minor healing/BRs.

[Placid]

The point is that with 500 carry capacity, for example, right now you can get only 50 vials with a full load of quartz. It simply takes too long to walk even that short distance and harvest a full load of quartz(even with a high harvest level that's a few minutes) for a mere 50 vials. The amount of quartz and the time involved in getting it is what sets the price for a vial not really the 3gc. Otherwise quartz wouldn't be traded for 2gc in the market like everything else that weighs 2 emu, it would be free.

Are you aware that you can ask others to help you, carrying not only the quartz but vials too? Remember storage isn't so far either...

[NitageR]

Nor is reducing the mp to 2 mana.**

 

Please do it.

 

Then :

- sr will be more expensive

- ppl can sell srs for more money and won't bitch about vial

- ppl won't bitch about mana pot is better than sr

 

Err..at least i won't.

Edited July 13, 2006 by NitageR

[Terena]

Am I the only one who doesn't have a problem with the vials? I potion, but only in small batches, because its how my playstyle works. And one of the first things I researched in the game was quartz mining. Sure, I can only get about 40vials each trip, but Harvey is barely a few steps away from storage, its a nuisance, but only a minor one. From experience, there's very little of a demand for plain quartz on the market, this might actually create some. It seems like the only way the vials are a problem is for over-production of items to level, and weren't we trying to stop that sort of thing?

 

Also I've actually found it easier to bag-mix since I can make more things in one trip because I don't have to haul a bunch of empty vials back with me too.

 

I'm not going to comment on the mana/SRs issue because now its moot. I was waiting to see how this would affect the market before commenting, but now I've been denied that option. Thanks guys...

 

As for the spells, I didn't have a problem with the harm or mana drain. Sure, it could be a danger when pvping, but pvping is already dangerous, thats the price of good exp. I don't take anything that I can't replace easily, and nor should anyone else. I was concerned at the changes to remote heal, since its such a low level spell for such a high cost, but again I was waiting to see how this would work out in practice before commenting.

 

Its a shame you felt the need to reverse these changes because of some initial naysayers, I for one would have liked to see the impact of these changes, before any adjustments were made.

[ville-v]

My suggestion:

 

Make mana potion give 10 mana with cooldown of 15 (or 20?) seconds.

Make SR give 25 or 30 mana with same cooldown.

 

Do same with minor heal and BR potions.

[NitageR]

Anyway 5points from noob pot err mana pot is fair for everyone now.!