So, what do we think about the new changes?

[NitageR]

Ok, I read every single post, and here are the conclusions:

 

The: "Omfg I have nexus 4 veg and now it's useless". The invisibility, true sight and poison antidote require vegetal nexus 5, and I do believe the fighters will use them extensively, and make them on the spot. Those potions will be pretty much required for the combat, now with the new harm/mana drain increase.

 

 

Are we happy now?

 

 

We will be very very happy if vial won't disappear after using an SR potion. Training is now really expensive and not much profitable. Please don't make it more expensive Ent.. We need to spend now 2 times more gc for wine to have the same amount of mana while training. I'm sure most trainers agree here with me.

TO ALL PEOPLE who think that monster training is profitable i say it is not if you take into account price of he's, srs, armors and uncle Tankel's service

Like I said, one small change and many people will be happy and won't bitch anymore.

Edited July 11, 2006 by NitageR

[Thordin]

Kind request to Entropy: if you wish to cease overincome of vials to the game, just make no vials from using FP only. This is the greatest income of vials. But using ALL potions resulting in losing vials is very drastic.

 

Vials will be expensive>>>potions wll have to raise its prices>>>BUT people have not enough money to buy them, so supply will be even more over the demand, which wil result in hurting the fragile economy even more.

[NitageR]

Kind request to Entropy: if you wish to cease overincome of vials to the game, just make no vials from using FP only. This is the greatest income of vials. But using ALL potions resulting in losing vials is very drastic.

 

That's a very good point

[shallara]

Having FP's be the only potion that does NOT drop a vial would be a huge blow to every person that depends on them for food. Crafters, Manu-ers, Alch'ers, Potioners alike, we all depend on feasting potions to make a living in this game. The higher level items use one feasting potion PER item. Now that we cannot reuse our vials from feasting pots, the price of FP's has increased, not by 1 gc, but by 6 gc minimum.

I doubt fighters want to start paying for the difference in items. Crafters have a hard enough time finding people to buy votd rings at 90 gc each, who in Draia will willingly pay 105gc each for C1 rings?

Thats what they're going to end up costing guys.

Without the vials we so desperately depend on, the cost of fp's WILL be factored into made items. Don't be surprised when it happens, it's coming.

[Jaclaw]

The: "Omfg I have nexus 4 veg and now it's useless". The invisibility, true sight and poison antidote require vegetal nexus 5, and I do believe the fighters will use them extensively, and make them on the spot. Those potions will be pretty much required for the combat, now with the new harm/mana drain increase.

I thiknk no many fighters going to spent next pp just for pots which they can buy

[KibblesAndBits]

i dont like the vial thing as much but i love how mana pots restore 10 mana and give vial back i never used to do potions ever but with these never fail potions i love making them at monster spawns and during flee of pvp. So im really pleased with the mana pots but not entirely with vial thing but it doesnt matter as much because i dont use srs too often with these new pots

[Entropy]

A vial is 3 GC from Harvy, and some quartz. Not the end of the world, no?

And if we keep bitchign about the vials, I'll let the MP/SR the way they are now. I give you one finger, and you take the whole body? WTF.

[pennifuin]

A vial is 3 GC from Harvy, and some quartz. Not the end of the world, no?

And if we keep bitchign about the vials, I'll let the MP/SR the way they are now. I give you one finger, and you take the whole body? WTF.

 

 

I'm sorry but just saying 'Not the end of the world' does not fix teh economy. Im sorry, it is your game, do with it what you will.

[bofred]

Would be fair enough..

 

couldnt be a fair solution to have those people who have no more use for this nexus have a single chance to get only their vegetal nexus resetted ? i think this would be just fair becuase this change came a bit unforseen for everyone.

 

 

 

ye i would very much appreciate a veg-nex-reset.

 

or making SR and mana-pots both give no vial, or both giving vials. the point is that as it is now, mixing MP at spawns is cheaper and more mana on emu than SR, so your veg 4 for SR and your inorg 1 for blue quartz is a waste. sry, but you cant tweak that by changing the cooldown time. for me, i got 120 mana, i really dont care if i have to drink slow +10 mana or fast +20 mana at monsterspawn.

 

so as it is now, its kind of unfair for the ppl with high overall and veg 4 including me.

 

p.s.: i dont care about buying vials, its just that it will get a fact that i wasted 5 pp and everyone above oa 110 knows how hard it is to get new pp!!

Edited July 11, 2006 by bofred

[Lorck]

Increasing cooldown time must be drastic for MP, to compensate the imbalance of a far lower level potion offer more mana per EMU ratio. If that is done i am happy.

[Entropy]

Ok, well, I will make the mp/hp give 5 mana/health. The price will stay the same though.

This solves everything, so no more complaints. And yes, I know, you still want the free vials, but unfotunately this is not possible.

[Lotheneil]

A vial is 3 GC from Harvy, and some quartz. Not the end of the world, no?

And if we keep bitchign about the vials, I'll let the MP/SR the way they are now. I give you one finger, and you take the whole body? WTF.

 

I think Harvy asks a little too much for one vial. If his price was made 2 quartz + 3gp I think it would be fine. Or let us make our own vial and the whole problem is gone. I started making potions recently, but now it's a skill from which I can't make profits at all. You are thinking about high level potionmakers, new pots, (which noone can make yet and most probably not many are going to buy) but what about lower levels?

Most people re unhappy with the way vials/potions work now. We just want the game to be enjoyable, and I think you want the same. As you said nothing is carved in stone. You wanted us to discuss the update, so we are just doing that. People are pointing out what they don't like. If you don't want us to express our oppinions just dont ask. You are the game creator, but nobody is infallible, you know.

[Zaer]

Ok, well, I will make the mp/hp give 5 mana/health. The price will stay the same though.

This solves everything, so no more complaints. And yes, I know, you still want the free vials, but unfotunately this is not possible.

 

 

lo0l

 

GG economy, no re.

 

direction of this game? down

Edited July 11, 2006 by Zaer

[mufossa]

Ok, well, I will make the mp/hp give 5 mana/health. The price will stay the same though.

This solves everything, so no more complaints. And yes, I know, you still want the free vials, but unfotunately this is not possible.

ok Ent this isnt directed at you youre just trying to shut people up. but ok everyone are you happy sr still wont give a vile and now mana pot are going back to 5 mp...whats the point this makes things worse cant you see that .just leave it how it is ..how is increasing cool down and decreasing mana points going to make up for sr not being benifitial in spawn Ent isnt gonna change the vile so i say we just accept it how it is and leave well enough alone..Ent please leave it how it is

[MagpieLee]

I still think the remote heal/harm/mana drain is too essence and mana heavy for what you're getting. Consider restoration that has 4 HE for 25 mana. Whilst mana drian has 6 now?

Remote Heal: Currently 3 HE, 3 ME = very expensive. Should be 2HE and 2ME. And since this is a lower lvl spell the required 15 mana is way too much. Especially now that you've lowered mana potions back to 5 mana again. Oh sure, Tutorial NPC...but you can't expect people to beam back to get healed every single time. So I suggest lower remote heal mana to 10 and make mana potions give 8 mana (I know its not a multiple of 5 but who cares and give the same to minor healing potions too).

 

Harm: 5 HE and 3 DE. Should be 4HE and 2DE.

Mana Drain: 6 AE. Should be 5.

Its bad enough that we lose mana, let alone essences. Remember that a mage would have higher Will and less might so they wouldn't be able to carry as much as a battle-mager.

 

Ok, well, I will make the mp/hp give 5 mana/health. The price will stay the same though.

This solves everything, so no more complaints. And yes, I know, you still want the free vials, but unfotunately this is not possible.

ok Ent this isnt directed at you youre just trying to shut people up. but ok everyone are you happy sr still wont give a vile and now mana pot are going back to 5 mp...whats the point this makes things worse cant you see that .just leave it how it is ..how is increasing cool down and decreasing mana points going to make up for sr not being benifitial in spawn Ent isnt gonna change the vile so i say we just accept it how it is and leave well enough alone..Ent please leave it how it is

 

I think the idea is to slowly lower the numbers of empty vials in the game. If there are still loads hanging around then any idea of making them manufacturable/craftable is not gonna happen.

[bofred]

i think that that this cooldown-tweaking has no real link to the main problem, that alot of ppl have to live with the thought, that they lvl up a char that has been wasted pp by a third person. i think thats a very bad motivation to play this game in the next time!

 

 

making the MP back to 5 mana would be meeting in the middle, still i dont really like, but its ok.

Edited July 11, 2006 by bofred

[Lorck]

Ok, well, I will make the mp/hp give 5 mana/health. The price will stay the same though.

This solves everything, so no more complaints. And yes, I know, you still want the free vials, but unfotunately this is not possible.

ok Ent this isnt directed at you youre just trying to shut people up. but ok everyone are you happy sr still wont give a vile and now mana pot are going back to 5 mp...whats the point this makes things worse cant you see that .just leave it how it is ..how is increasing cool down and decreasing mana points going to make up for sr not being benifitial in spawn Ent isnt gonna change the vile so i say we just accept it how it is and leave well enough alone..Ent please leave it how it is

Wanna easy mana source at spawn? Take 4 veg nexus.

 

The point of going back to 5 is to give the ones who took 4 veg nexus an advantage, and its fair, imho.

 

It will increase the cost of training by not giving vials but you cant have everything.

[Roja]

 

lo0l

 

GG economy, no re.

 

direction of this game? down

 

 

direction you'll be going soon...out of these forums.

 

Forum Rule:

9. Use Constructive Criticism

Do not insult the developers or implementations of the game. When a new addition is made to the game and you find something wrong with it, then phrase your words in a thoughtful and meaningful way that people will be willing to respond to. Back your ideas or opinions up by facts or good, well thought out suggestions.

[mufossa]

i think that that this cooldown-tweaking has no real link to the main problem, that alot of ppl have to live with the thought, that they lvl up a char that has been wasted pp by a third person. i think thats a very bad motivation to play this game in the next time!

 

 

making the MP back to 5 mana would be meeting in the middle, still i dont really like, but its ok.

Meeting in the middle please explain....It seem they are making one thing worse to make the other appear more desireable...it is an illusion...

 

Ok, well, I will make the mp/hp give 5 mana/health. The price will stay the same though.

This solves everything, so no more complaints. And yes, I know, you still want the free vials, but unfotunately this is not possible.

ok Ent this isnt directed at you youre just trying to shut people up. but ok everyone are you happy sr still wont give a vile and now mana pot are going back to 5 mp...whats the point this makes things worse cant you see that .just leave it how it is ..how is increasing cool down and decreasing mana points going to make up for sr not being benifitial in spawn Ent isnt gonna change the vile so i say we just accept it how it is and leave well enough alone..Ent please leave it how it is

Wanna easy mana source at spawn? Take 4 veg nexus.

 

The point of going back to 5 is to give the ones who took 4 veg nexus an advantage, and its fair, imho.

 

It will increase the cost of training by not giving vials but you cant have everything.

Lorck i see what you are saying BUT if they cant maintain production in spawn due to lack of vials they loose there advantage anyway SO like i said before degrading mana potion isnt really helping!!

[Lorck]

You can always make vials at Harvy. Its not the end of the world.

 

Just the cost of training will go up since almost every restore now costs a vial, i hope the drops of the monsters go up to reflect this, but its an another suject.

[mufossa]

You can always make vials at Harvy. Its not the end of the world.

 

Just the cost of training will go up since almost every restore now costs a vial, i hope the drops of the monsters go up to reflect this, but its an another suject.

well i think im done training now mabye 2 more pp and im done

[Roja]

Might I also remind everyone of what everyone was saying about the cooldown, and many other changes to the game. Allow time to pass, if you don't, you won't know how things will be and cannot make accurate enough judgements.

[0ctane]

I dislike the new remote heal spell for the following reasons:

This negatively effects all the new hopeful mages by making healing at IP a waste of time. Cost of HE and ME with cooldown and now 3x the ingreds. I do not need to remote heal at my level, but I feel sorry for the people just starting.

Increasing esses required for spells will make it much harder for those who dont have high magic already. Perhaps exp should rise slightly too?

Truthfully, I have not made it through this entire thread yet, but I agree with the above comments. I used to frequently sit at IP and heal people. Then, cooldown happened and making HEs and MagEs became a boring chore, so I reduced the amount of time I spent healing new players. Now, the cost of healing at IP has tripled! This is a little too rich for my blood.

People have commented that healing is an expensive hobby and it just got more so. I won't stop healing ppl, though, and it is nice that my heals do more points of recovery. Extra experience would lessen negative impact of changes maybe.

Kudos to shamara for continuing to be a good samaratin ... I do not know if I will follow suit. Yes, extra experience would always be nice, but I am bummed by the cost of charity. Maybe bring remote heal down to 2 & 2 (if not back to 1 & 1)? Maybe reduce the alch time for HE and/or MagE? The "more healing for high magic level" thing is nice. But, so what if you can do a remote heal for 35 points if everyone you heal has only 20 material points?

 

I have seen suggestions for two levels of remote heal requiring different numbers of essences. I propose this.

1. return remote heal to its 1&1 prior level.
   
2. create a remote restore that is 4&4.
   

This would put the remote spells on par with the personal ones (1HE heal and 4HE restoration).

[Entropy]

Anyway, I am putting the MP and HP back to 5 points, and this is the end of discussion. Next time maybe you will appreciate more what you get.

[Infamous]

i agree with mufossa..reducing mana potion won't help.

did you even consider the option of having a npc buy the empty vials? (harvy can buy for example)

that way you'll get rid of too many empty vials + your helping out the economy.

economy now: people have low amounts of money and prices are low cause of that. (and players are saying prices of items are too low)

so having a bit more money to spend (cause of the empty vials selling) will increase prices cause players are willing to offer more for the item they want.

with the sr's giving no vial back is only ruining the economy even more cause now people need to keep buying vials from harvy so players have less money and less to spend on items so prices drop even more.

keep in mind that 1 or 2gc for an empty vial isn't that much so players won't become uber rich.

from what i hear players have ~10k empty vials in storage, now do the math 10k*1 = 10k.. won't make ppl uber rich, or 10k*2 = 20k won't make ppl uber rich either. (saving up to 10k empty vials take a long time, so they won't become uber rich in the long run either)

 

once again there are enough topics about low money amounts.. with this you'll reduce ppl with low money amounts, fix economy a bit and solve the empty vials problem.

 

Edit: see what Lorck say's you come up with a solution but create another problem with it (more expensive training rounds)

Edited July 11, 2006 by Hardcore