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Entropy

So, what do we think about the new changes?

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The main problem of this game at the moment is that all high level fighters are high level wizards, therefore giving them few weaknesses and lots of options on how to defeat someone.

 

Having a nexus for magic spells has been discussed before. Right now, I'm a little in between. And any high lvl fighters would put pp in them anyway. Some may reset to put points here (see above for people who've reset to get 4 vegetal).

 

Only suggestion I could make to this is to have higher level armour decrease the effectiveness of spells. Eventually some kind of clothing to help magic may become available to specialist mages.

 

 

EL isn't put in classes so everyone can become everything they want..

your suggestion is to make classes

Actually i would say that there are classes in el. The classes are determined by the nexuses we take.

 

Agreed in a post i made earlier here

 

Although I was told quite firmly that this matter has been discussed in depth I still feel that nexus are pointless. If one person of equal level can become stronger solely by the way they spend nexus points then classes are created imo.

Edited by iktor

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I haven't even logged in since the server update, but just got done reading about what was implemented. I won't comment on the no more vial, spells and such because alot has already been said and I don't think I can offer anything more.

 

I just have one thing to comment on:

 

Steel and Titanium axe artificial nexus lowered to 5 (from 6 and 7)

 

Uhhh...are we (those who did raise our artificial nex to 6 or 7) going to get those two pick points back to distribute elsewhere or am I going to have to consider a reset? I only raised mine to 7 because I wanted to be able to manu 'everything'. Granted I haven't made any of the new weapons or armor yet so I don't know if they require a higher nexus to create.

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I am still a newbie and I am continually impressed by the dedication of the personnel striving to make EL a dynamic and entertaining game, from the makers to the players. The updates I have seen so far have impressed me. I look forward to meeting (killing/being killed by) new monsters, trying new spells, armor, and potions, though much of this will be later in the game since I have to develop my character more.

 

The latest changes are good. For the vials I see this as step in the right direction, as the impact on the market and game play are determined, tweaking of the fine points will occur; like Manufacturing vials, adjusting break percents, or increase xp or gains from potions.

 

The only change I have reservations about is the increase in essence cost for for remote heal, my character is a healer and my game play uses alot of time harvesting and using alchemy to support this. My last 5 lvls of magic have been done 20 xp at a time and I have excepted it will be a long time before I see high magic levels as a healer. It seems counter to the EL idea of community to make the this low level spell and first spell that can help someone other than yourself so expensive in essence cost. Please reconsider this change, or consider as mentioned earlier in this thread the creation of a greater remote heal for higher level players that has higher mana and essence cost with a higher return for amount healed and xp earned.

 

V/R

Elric67 (newbie healer)....(disclaimer for grammar and spelling, I speak 2 languages, bad english and worse)

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Perhaps a minor remote heal and a major remote heal spell?

 

Minor would have a fixed heal amount (7-10pts) with cost of 1 & 1 essences.

 

Major would have a variable heal amount (based on levels) and a cost of 3 & 3 essences.

 

Minor would allow new players to practice their magic and help one another.

 

Major would allow serious magic users or PK groups to be able to aid each other for strategy play and better results.

Edited by Ghrae

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Ok not so sure I agree with the idea that SR will become worthless. EMP arent, so why will SR be? Instead mana pots WILL replace SR for training/PVP but pkers will still prefer to use SR and EMP in pk maps.

 

As will this "mage" class that may come about.

 

I predict SR will still sell but the price will increase, since the seller will no longer be getting vials in return (although there may be SOME deals made here and there).

 

I would LIKE to see the SR ep raised since it will require more for those higher levelled spells and the cooldown isnt likely to keep a player alive long if he is relying on his SR stocks.

 

Mana pots will not only be a new source for new players but hardened potmakers will be selling them too now, since a fighter may need to buy some in a hurry to claim a spawn site, even though he can then mix up whilst he holds it and recycle the vials there.

 

Tbh, all this outcry seems very early on, and I think we should at least give the update time to make an effect on the economy before shouting it down and asking for changes. (Despite my saying i would like to see SR change above lol)

 

Give this all a chance and see how the economy goes, THEN suggest improvements and changes.

 

 

I would like to throw in some possible predictions and explainations as to why i think these may occur:-

 

Vials, obviously price has increased already, but i think it will continue to do so, simply because bulk is required to achieve higher pots levels. No longer recycling the vials means the potion makers will have to use some of their hard earned gc to replace the ones used to level, meaning either a lot of blue smurf mana pot drinkers camped out at mira or harvey will become more popular than teh Holy Apple. (at least anyone who first joins and reads up quartz mining now ahs a good income from selling Quartz, which I also predict will increase as a result, once vials are manuable).

 

Essences, alchemists are gonna be richer than ever. Mixing magic essences will overtake health essence as a primary income source. Not only will healers use more of these but its already clear that a lot of crafters seem to be buying them in bulk for mixing up C2 rings. Energy ess I also predict will rise in popularity on the market, so both of these ess are liekly to see fairly good price increases simply because of a greater demand. Factor in that the feasting potion now costs more and doesnt produce a recyclable vial means that this too may eventually seep thru to the costs of producing Ess and selling them at a higher rate.

 

Manufactured items, again, higher costs for these on market once this settles down, as the fp usage is greater in gc costings, filtering thru to market and showing itself by people asking a higher price for their wares.

 

SR...will be used a lot more for binding stones now, and the EMP market will see a drastic increase, with prices raising to be much higher than the current binding stone price of 2kgc. I predict this may happen whether the EP points given are tweaked or not.

 

So, take heart all you pr0 level fighters that have 4 veg nexus and are thinking its a waste. It isnt. You simply need to get your hands on binding stones and make EMP from your SR. That covers your pking, and the SR sales you can now do will supplement you a secondary income to pay for the new armours/weapons/potions/ess req's. Your SR market are all those fighters out there that DONT have veg nex and therefor HAVE to buy SR anyways for pking with. (I strongly advise all guilds who are enemies with one another to NOT have no-trade sanctions simply because you fight each other!!)

 

Lets face it, fighters, you sure as hell aint gonna make your GC from selling off the iron greaves and cuisses u got lying around atm....only other fighters want em, and they are in teh market to sell their OWN winnings.

 

Ok, a little unstructured in all this, and i apologise, but given time i think this is the way the market will go as a result of the latest update if its given a chance to settle itself in.

 

Feel free to point fingers at my post and snigger openly.

 

- PYE

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I was thinking about the powerful harms...

 

They are doing good damage now, since people have COLs nowadays in pk... There also magic imunity...

 

The only problem is the described above, people can go invisible wait for someone get life bellow 50 and harm.

 

A humble suggestion to mitigate this pr0blem, and make pvp training possible:

Medallion of Magic Protection

Grants +2 of defense, also imunity to damage spells. If you get hit for 40+ of magic damage while wearing it breaks.

 

======

 

About the veg nexus discussion, i also took veg nexus and it is like 20M of overall exp wasted at my level. :(

 

Something has to be done to balance stuff again. In a side note making SRs offer higher mana recover dont solves the problem since people with 0 vegetal nexus and 0 potion skill can still have their mana restored nicely which is unfair with the fighters who trained potion to mix at spawn and for the potion makers which is seeing their market vanish.

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Why should I do EMP when I can go kill some forest chims or maybe after update fc doesn't drop it anymore, have to check it :S

But this way I get it cheaper. Note, dunno how others but last time I used EM it was umm like 4-6 weeks ago ?

Anyway small mana pots are cheaper and better than srs now :(

 

Agree with Thodix :>

Edited by NitageR

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Umm, EMP requires magic 4 as well, a little remark. And to make EMP from bindies? Binding stone costs 2kgc now, and for 50 EP? I think this is not going to happen.

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Why should i do EMP when i can go kill some forest chims :S

And get it way way cheaper. Note, dunno how others but last time i used EM it was umm like 4-6 weeks ago ?

 

No reason YOU should, but a fighter that CANT kill chim and DOES need EMP is likley to buy some from you...whichever method YOU use to make a sale to this fighter, you are gonna run out of EMP eventually and if you can create more form excess SR stocks, why SHOULDNT you make EMP? Especially if you can get 4-5k per EMP and only paid 2k for the binding stone?

 

(prices are used as an example)

 

Umm, EMP requires magic 4 as well, a little remark. And to make EMP from bindies? Binding stone costs 2kgc now, and for 50 EP? I think this is not going to happen.

 

 

Good and valid point about the magic nex. :omg:

 

 

 

Mind you, there was also a suggestion in here to make the higher levelled spells require the magic nexus as well, so..... :(

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I do. As a newbie, one of your best sources of healing can be through these potions. This gives the newbie who uses these potions a chance to sell something back to the potioner whos making FPs for the manufacturer. It sounds like a winner to me.

 

Why do you think the newbee will sell the vials if he can make mana/healt potions himself (no requirements, remember). I would just buy the first batch and then keep on making these potions for myself... since there is no vial loss.

 

You're thinking like an experienced player, not a newbie. Why would a newbie want to sit around making potions? Most newbies aren't going to look through the encyclopedia and realize they can make the potions themselves. Even if they realize the *can*, that doesn't mean they'll want to spend the time and effort making them.

 

 

 

I must be the only example! Not a true newb, but my character is and I'm new to more than one update it looks like.

 

Remembering that potting was frustrating for me with losing ingredients and doing the Harvy shuffle for vials, when I finished the Wraiths tour yesterday, I put his bonus into potting and decided to work on potions first. Of course without noticing yesterdays update! Making reasoning pots at level 8 loses about 25% or more of my vials through the failure rate. Having the vial disappear when I drink one is frustrating, also not particularly realistic. After all, when I chug down a Schmidts I don't eat the bottle, I take it back for the 5 cents!

 

I know I can buy mana pots and use them up for no benefit, but that doesn't feel very realistic either. I recall at one point eating nothing but FP's and using the empties to make pots which I'd sell back to Mira for more FP's. Usually keeping potions in my own loop that way. The new system will work, just be somewhat slower.

 

You guys have a point. Most newbies won't figure out potting for a good while. Originally I didn't until I realized that guzzling reasoning and will pots while making Titanium bars gave good exp!

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Why should i do EMP when i can go kill some forest chims :S

And get it way way cheaper. Note, dunno how others but last time i used EM it was umm like 4-6 weeks ago ?

Anyway small mana pots are cheaper and better than srs now :(

Agreed Mr Nitager. Fighters can mix mana pots in spawn using low emu so srs == useless outside pk.

 

Btw, i think Piewacket was refering to EMPs because of his friend Xanter who uses it all the time. I use like 2-3 EMPs per week and only in desesperate circunstances like i dont have mana and i have cooldown on dis ring, etc. Some other people uses EMPs all the time to look pr0 because they can fight someone a little above their own level.

 

And to use Srs to mix binding stone is bullshit since you will need binding stone (which is more expensive than the EMP itself) and magic nexus.

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Actually, SR are gonna be pk only was the point i was making. And EMP being the stell plate of the potioners stock, hence my predicting a price increase to be ABOVE binding stones.

 

As i said, its all only a prediction and i am willing to wait and see if it happens, but feel free to pull it to bits.

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Actually, SR are gonna be pk only was the point i was making. And EMP being the stell plate of the potioners stock, hence my predicting a price increase to be ABOVE binding stones.

 

As i said, its all only a prediction and i am willing to wait and see if it happens, but feel free to pull it to bits.

I agree with part of it.

 

First, i think SR will still be used in pk, agreeing with you. But also note that PK is a part of the market for SRs and people used to use much more SRs while training than while pking, so the market for SRs is now very small.

 

Second, since we can get EMP by making minor mana pots (and people are making tons of them after update) the EMP prices will go down, not up.

 

Anyway people who spent 4 pps in veg nexus can cry or reset or hope that will be a change to this stuff.

Edited by Lorck

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Although I was told quite firmly that this matter has been discussed in depth I still feel that nexus are pointless. If one person of equal level can become stronger solely by the way they spend nexus points then classes are created imo.

Which is the idea, to keep a jack-of-all trades from being more successful than everyone else. What happens to the economy when nobody wants to trade for anything, since they can do everything themselves?

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My opinions:

 

Pots;

 

I have always trained on spawns by making mana pots. I have pot lvl 28 (i think) and vegetal 0. Personally, I like the change, but i also believe it will kill the sr/br industry. Especially since 2 mana pots cool down faster than 1 sr.

 

Spells:

 

Harm - I like the concept of doing more damage with a harm spell. Basically, 10 damage is nothing to a person with 300 mp, which most pkers have, approximately, with COL. This rewards higher level magic folks, and makes magic a viable method for character creation, rather than just a means of healing.

 

Mana Drain - See harm, same basic comment, i like it.

 

Remote Heal - I do not like this one. It is too many essences for a newbie to get to raise magic levels. This makes the healer at the fire, for example, very difficult. If i understand correctly, the cost of a remote heal went from about 16gc to 48 gc. I suggest that a new spell, say remote restore, at say magic level 29, is implimented. This spell starts healing say 20 mp, then adds a bonus per level. It uses larger numbers of essences, while remote heal stays as it was.

 

Magic Immunity - I have a tough time with this spell. It basically negates the ability to use magic in combat, and thus develop a character as a wizard type. I have a few options that could help here, with any or all to be considered/modified:

 

1. Matter Immunity - same as magic immunity, but it stops any damage during a fight. This

allows a wizard to have equalish footing with a fighter.

 

2. Remove Magic Immunity - a spell that dispells magic immunity, allowing the wizard character to

attack.

 

3. Allow some damage/drain through magic immunity based on respective magic levels.

 

Vials

 

I would have to say that this is going to severly damage the potting profession because Harvey just is not

a valid way to get vials.

 

Increased Costs

 

This just does not help, in fact, FPs should go down to 5 gc, imho. There are 2 real sources of revenue in the game at this point, harvesting and alchemy. Other professions need ways to make revenue. Increase NPC purchase prices, NPCs buy all manufactured goods at ~-1-3% of the ingrident cost, monsters drop more gold. A cyclops should be dropping 5 to 100 gc because it can kick an armed orcs butt and take all its gold, then a fluff should be at 20 to 150, same principle. This will stop the massive deflation and allow players to buy more player manufactured goods.

 

RJ

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Nice update.

 

I can't wait to get home and start up EL !!!!!!!!!!

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It has been said before but:

 

Only reason i took veg nex 4 is for mixing SR at spawn. Seems like a waste as it is now. For fighters the advantage of spending 4 "expensive" pp in veg nex is gone.

 

As for spells.....cant commend on them yet....but from what i read im glad i got magic lvl 63 :(

 

Ambros.

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Ok, I read every single post, and here are the conclusions:

 

Harm/Mana drain/heal too powerful. Ballanced by the increased cost in ingredients and mana. So they ballance out.

Not being able to heal at the fire due to the increased cost. No problem, the newbie helper heals newbies for free, until level 17 attack.

We might add a new spell, maybe some sort of null spell, that won't do anything, except for consume ingredients, mana, and give magic exp.

 

There are ways to protect against the increased harm, such as the COL, magic immunity, invisibility, true sight (to detect cloaked mages).

 

The: "Omfg I have nexus 4 veg and now it's useless". The invisibility, true sight and poison antidote require vegetal nexus 5, and I do believe the fighters will use them extensively, and make them on the spot. Those potions will be pretty much required for the combat, now with the new harm/mana drain increase.

 

The: "Make a higer level harm and mana drain and heal". Why? I don't like to be like in other games, with 10 heal spells, each healing a little more than the previous one.

 

I will increase the cooldown for the mana potion, and decrease the one for the SR, to compensate.

 

The "Omfg, nexus 7 aritificial". The next level of armors (which will be added in the future) will require nexus 7.

 

Are we happy now?

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uhm there is alway's a solution for mispended pp 's Entropy but why would they make the potions instead of spending those pp on p/c w/e to become stronger and just cast the spell?

 

anyway why not make a npc that buy's empty vials for 1 or 2 gc instead of such a drastic change?

we could use some extra gc for the new armours/weapons etc.

besides there are topics about shortage of gc so having another money drain is reducing gc even more.

vials price went up to 8 gc, 1k sr's costs 18k+ you need He's 1k of He's cost 7k besides that ppl need air essences, energy essences and alot of other things to cast the new spells..and beside that still need to save up money for new armours that's basicly impossible unless you do another skill besides fighting. (most people don't want that)

 

maybe another suggestion make a special day called "slippy hands" where you get some % chance to let the vial break after using a potion.

there would be more suggestions but this one is to drastic IMO.

Edited by Hardcore

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Vials are really drastic, maybe 10% breaking chance, but 100% is awful, with no alternative income of vials. (Harvy is nonsense, 5 quartz+3gc is insane). It would be really helpful, if makeable vials would be added asap.

 

And I do appreciate all other changes, they are in general good. I like them.

(so I am not bitching about update, just the vials seems to drastic now)

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I forgot to mention earlier, the free healing for under 17 ATT by the Tutorial NPC is a Big Happy. I'm at level 14 and still getting clobbered by foxes, mean deer, and baby spiders. Thanks Entropy, keep that one!!

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I will increase the cooldown for the mana potion, and decrease the one for the SR, to compensate.

Are we happy now?

 

Thank you. Will this be applied also to minor healing/BR?

I hope the formula for vials will keep the prices around 4-5 gc, so that the vial won't be more expensive then the content :(

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I dont expect much demmand for new potions, they are pretty expensive now from Mira, but i dont know how it will in the future when potioners will be able to make them(i mean no books on market yet). I used 3 invisibility pots and got poisoned 3 times so i used 3 cure potions. Low level fighters who cant cast invisibility spell usually also dont have perfect restore which is really required at pk. So they pick also try to pick weak fighters who arent worth of spending much gc on pots. High level fighters who usually have high level magic can cast invisibility without any chances to be poisoned so they wont be interested in new pots. IMO we have now just even more veg 5 non-sellable pots.

My sugestion: if you fail chance roll on pots and get poisoned you still get invisibility.

 

EDIT: suggestion added

Edited by Desertus

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