So, what do we think about the new changes?

[NitageR]

You should get extra dmg then like 1-2.

[mufossa]

Hi all

Im 405 mili oa exp atm, perkless, 20pp free, every next oa is 20m oa exp, so 4 oa=80mili oa exp and

i took veg 4 only cous i could make srs on spawn, so i didnt needed such big p/c (p44c60 at a123/d134)

Now when mana pots r better than srs i will have 2 reset

not cous i did some mistakes on my character build, but only cous some suggestion which was implemented

maybe next time i reach 140+oa p/c will loose on meaning?so every1 will take only vitality/will/reasoning?

Anyways, i will have 2 reset cous of making 4 vegetal useless 4 figters, i still think that maybe some changes may be undone so i will w8 with reset some time, well, im probably just silly

thx 4 teh pr0 change

cu around in eL

 

eMPi

Well i train with Masterpiter as do a few others and we all know how hard he trains he has literally put everything he has into EL and building his account..i dont think i have met another who truely loves this game as much as he does.he is #1 oa {145} which to me is the most impressive statistic in the game, the player w/ the most experience..and also i mention Nitager who is oa 132 {perkless as well}..i understand why they are upset and BTW it is 5pp 1 for inorg to harvest quartz so they are losing 100 million exp .. and that dosent come easily over a month of training everyday for 10+hours a day....i hope for the best

[Kedan]

the problem with the harm spell is that fighters can use it to easyily, but this is true for all magic. Magic needs to be harder to use. i would suggest having a nexuses for magic. that way it makes it harder to use, and if a fighter wants to use it they will have to give up some pp's

[mufossa]

IMO the harm is strong but it gives chance for ppl to became magicians. Not everyone wanna have plate and pink sword

The only problem is that in this game fighters have the highest mag level, because of the restore spell.

Maybe the higher a/d, the less u will harm by the harm spell? This could make distincion between fighters and magicians.

 

i have the highest a.d and the highest magic how should i not have the stronger spells? why should my a.d affect the many many GC i spent to level magic??????? please explain youre logic????? oh and how am i not a magician I cast spells all day name a spell i cast it tele harm,mana,drain,remote,heal,sheild,restore,invisibility,true sight and many others WHAT EXACTLY CONSTITUTES A MAGICIAN?

Edited July 11, 2006 by mufossa

[Cycloonx]

The latest 3 new potions wiull bring some money to the potioners, so long as they read the books. So the vials were removed to compensate a little bit, and also because there were WAY too many vials in the game.

We might, however, make them manufacturable.

Ok, i used to mix srs on the spawn...

 

1 Sr take: 1 vial + 1 blue quartz + 2 Blue Star Flowers + 1 wine, total emu 7, mana recovered:20

 

Note that in Sr's you need to harv blue quartz... And for each Sr is one vial spent. And finally its 4 veg nexus.

 

1 mana pot take: 1 vial + 1 blue lupine + wine, total emu 4 (but you need to carry to spawn only one vial since you never fail and the vial is not consumed, therefore the total emu to make say 100 mana pots is 301), mana recovered: 10, nexus required 0.

 

Now everyone can enjoy the benefits of making pots to recover mana on the spawn, even those who 0 vegetal nexus and with 0 potion skill. How dumb is this.

 

I guess very few people will buy Srs now, because they can mix mana pots (who recover a nice quantity of mana with few emu) on the spawn. Since the money of the pot makers comes from Srs they are in a very bad situation now, imo, even with the new pots added.

 

I kindly suggest that mana pots recover less mana (or a quantity based on your pot level) or have their cooldown dramatically increased.

====

 

On another hand harm is giving good damage

 

But I guess that training pvp will become a lot harder cuz people can become invisible and wait till someone reach 40's of life then harm. Its a garanteed kill.

 

EDIT:

Others believe that fighters will suffer because potion levels might return to about 15-20gc per.

Fighters will not care because they got a very easy source of mana: mana pots. Why buy srs if you can make on spot (since fighters have good emu and can carry tons of ingreds)?

 

Now pot makers are doomed.

 

I think the mana given by srs should be raised to let's say 30, that would balance the pk more imo and wont make them worthless

[Infamous]

i think mana potions shouldn't give less mana :/

 

what we need is change back to how it was before and add a npc that buy's vials for 1 or 2 gc so ppl won't become uber rich because of it.

i got enough of all those money sinks..there are enough posts about fighters not having gc cuz they need to buy loads of stuff, so it would be nice if we have another source of income instead of another money sink.

 

lol and about raising Sr's to 30... i won't pk anymore cuz you need Sr's -> sr's give no vial -> need to buy vials -> poor me cause vials getting more expensive.

[Desertus]

about vials again. IMO they should be available either as it was before or leave Harvey as the only source of vails(for now until they can be made by players). I see no sense in it when only those 2 pots leave vials. all or none.

I mean sense in general not economy, but yes you can answer that its a game so everything is posible...

 

EDIT: expanded thought

Edited July 11, 2006 by Desertus

[Kalach]

about vials again. IMO they should be available either as it was before or leave Harvey as the only source of vails(for now until they can be made by players). I see no sense in it when only those 2 pots leave vials. all or none.

 

I do. As a newbie, one of your best sources of healing can be through these potions. This gives the newbie who uses these potions a chance to sell something back to the potioner whos making FPs for the manufacturer. It sounds like a winner to me.

 

Edit to add:

 

Also, cooldown should have a big effect on whether people move to mana potions vs. Srs. If this is a problem, I'm sure Ent can adjust the cooldown to make SR seem more attractive.

Edited July 11, 2006 by Kalach

[MagpieLee]

IMO the harm is strong but it gives chance for ppl to became magicians. Not everyone wanna have plate and pink sword

The only problem is that in this game fighters have the highest mag level, because of the restore spell.

Maybe the higher a/d, the less u will harm by the harm spell? This could make distincion between fighters and magicians.

Yes, I've trained quite abit, becoming above average in magic. Now my harms ~50 and now I can hunt giants better when I'm bored. Unfortunately my fighting is only 59,61 A/D with a magic lvl of 70 so I am much more of a pure mage then they are and thus, will never win in a PvP match with anyone like that.

 

So anyway here are my opinions. (As a potioner-mage who uses a quarterstaff and sold 200 FPs last night).

 

Whilst the remote heal, harm and mana drain are much better effectively, they are over the top in terms of essences. Its bad enough we need mana for them, let alone essences (and mana has been increased too ).

 

Remote heal has 3HE:3ME, should be lowered to 2 each (previously 8 mana, now its 15...this is too high because of SR cooldown. Make this 10-12 mana per cast).

Harm should have 1 lower HE and Mana Drain should have 1 lower AE. All changed spells should now give better exp now too.

 

Mana and SRs are unbalanced now.

Mana potions have a much faster cooldown, and does 10 mana and returns vial. SRs long cooldown, 20 mana and no vial return. This should be tweaked to:

 

SRs: 2 second lower cooldown and replenish 25-30 mana. The same change should be given to BRs too (25-30 HP). Oh, and increase the rare chance of EMP/PGH slightly.

Mana Potions: You might as well leave it as it is.

 

Potions should not be as potent as the spell. If the invisibility spell has 30 seconds, the potion should have 15-20 seconds (same goes for true sight).

 

I use Quarterstaff. Its now got a reduced break chance. =

Edited July 11, 2006 by MagpieLee

[Kindar_Naar]

I do. As a newbie, one of your best sources of healing can be through these potions. This gives the newbie who uses these potions a chance to sell something back to the potioner whos making FPs for the manufacturer. It sounds like a winner to me.

 

Why do you think the newbee will sell the vials if he can make mana/healt potions himself (no requirements, remember). I would just buy the first batch and then keep on making these potions for myself... since there is no vial loss.

[majestyk]

I won't add anything to the vials discussion, there already have been enough opinions on this. I would like to talk about the harm spell and the magic skill as a whole.

 

High level magic skill should not only result in more damage made by harm, it should also _reduce_ damage taken by magic by affecting magic resistance. The "magic immunity" spell level should be increased (absolute protection must be expensive), a "magic shield" spell adding to protection from magic in it's place would be nice.

 

You might complain that this does not help lower level players. Yes, you are right. If you are level 20 a/d and meet someone with level 60 a/d, you are dead. If you are level 20 magic and meet someone with level 60, why shouldnt you be as dead?

 

The main problem of this game at the moment is that all high level fighters are high level wizards, therefore giving them few weaknesses and lots of options on how to defeat someone. Part of the problem is that restoration needs to be reliable and mana drain is powerful, therefore giving a lot of motivation to raise that skill; another problem is that there is not enough specialisation needed to actually do high level magic. I can't remember any other game where a (so called) specialized fighter was able to use so high level spells. IMO every spell higher than restoration should require nexi, for example nexus 0 for everything including restoration, magic nexus 1 to everything including magic shield (replacing the magic immunity), nexus 2 for everything including drain mana, and magic nexus 3 for the new invis and true sight spells, and some higher level magic spells which might come (like fireball, wall of ice, paralyze) should even require more.

Combinations where fighting and use of magic both excel should stay very rare, limited to those of highest overall levels.

[Infamous]

EL isn't put in classes so everyone can become everything they want..

your suggestion is to make classes

[MagpieLee]

The main problem of this game at the moment is that all high level fighters are high level wizards, therefore giving them few weaknesses and lots of options on how to defeat someone. Part of the problem is that restoration needs to be reliable and mana drain is powerful, therefore giving a lot of motivation to raise that skill; another problem is that there is not enough specialisation needed to actually do high level magic. I can't remember any other game where a (so called) specialized fighter was able to use so high level spells. IMO every spell higher than restoration should require nexi, for example nexus 0 for everything including restoration, magic nexus 1 to everything including magic shield (replacing the magic immunity), nexus 2 for everything including drain mana, and magic nexus 3 for the new invis and true sight spells, and some higher level magic spells which might come (like fireball, wall of ice, paralyze) should even require more.

Combinations where fighting and use of magic both excel should stay very rare, limited to those of highest overall levels.

 

Having a nexus for magic spells has been discussed before. Right now, I'm a little in between. And any high lvl fighters would put pp in them anyway. Some may reset to put points here (see above for people who've reset to get 4 vegetal).

[Istiach]

EL isn't put in classes so everyone can become everything they want..

your suggestion is to make classes

Actually i would say that there are classes in el. The classes are determined by the nexuses we take.

Edited July 11, 2006 by Istiach

[Thordin]

Ad magic: Instead of adjusting harm, remote heal and mana drain, more powerful, more advanced and more level requiring spell should be added. So lower level mage has harm as a damage spell and high level mage should have someting like "disintegration spell" as a replacement for harm on higher levels. Remote heal should be replaced by "remote recovery spell" and mana drain should be replaced by "mana leak" on higher levels.

 

Ad vials: unbalanced, have mana potions give 10 EP, SRs 30-40 EP and EMP like 75 EP (raising their popularity)

 

Ad everything else: 100% satisified

 

Suggestion on vial formula:

 

3 quartz+1 coal+1 FE=pack of 5 vials

Nexus: 0

Recommended level: 2

Manufacture XP: 5

Edited July 11, 2006 by ThordinElement

[skodarap]

Well to be honest i really don't understand why vials are removed from higher lvl pots, ok u say it's because of too many vials in game, but what caused it? IMHO it's the "high" cooldown on food that "forced" ppl that manu/craft/pot/alch to buy feasing pots...maybe it'd be better solution to drop that cooldown a bit, so atleast cooked meat would be useful for some low-mid food consuming mixes...

[MagpieLee]

Ad magic: Instead of adjusting harm, remote heal and mana drain, more powerful, more advanced and more level requiring spell should be added. So lower level mage has harm as a damage spell and high level mage should have someting like "disintegration spell" as a replacement for harm on higher levels. Remote heal should be replaced by "remote recovery spell" and mana drain should be replaced by "mana leak" on higher levels.

 

Ad vials: unbalanced, have mana potions give 10 EP, SRs 30-40 EP and EMP like 75 EP (raising their popularity)

 

3 quartz+1 coal+1 FE=pack of 5 vials

Nexus: 0

Recommended level: 2

Manufacture XP: 5

 

I'm always up for more spells.

SRs giving that much mana isn't good imo.

Vials should give some crafting exp too

[majestyk]

EL isn't put in classes so everyone can become everything they want..

your suggestion is to make classes

Actually i would say that there are classes in el. The classes are determined by the nexuses we take.

 

Exactly my point. Nexuses are a specialisation to a certain class. There is still nothing against becoming everything you want - just not everything equally good at the the same time.

[MagpieLee]

Well to be honest i really don't understand why vials are removed from higher lvl pots, ok u say it's because of too many vials in game, but what caused it? IMHO it's the "high" cooldown on food that "forced" ppl that manu/craft/pot/alch to buy feasing pots...maybe it'd be better solution to drop that cooldown a bit, so atleast cooked meat would be useful for some low-mid food consuming mixes...

How about the potions that STACK returns vial and potions that don't stack loses the vial?

[Thordin]

Ad magic: Instead of adjusting harm, remote heal and mana drain, more powerful, more advanced and more level requiring spell should be added. So lower level mage has harm as a damage spell and high level mage should have someting like "disintegration spell" as a replacement for harm on higher levels. Remote heal should be replaced by "remote recovery spell" and mana drain should be replaced by "mana leak" on higher levels.

 

Ad vials: unbalanced, have mana potions give 10 EP, SRs 30-40 EP and EMP like 75 EP (raising their popularity)

 

3 quartz+1 coal+1 FE=pack of 5 vials

Nexus: 0

Recommended level: 2

Manufacture XP: 5

 

I'm always up for more spells.

SRs giving that much mana isn't good imo.

Vials should give some crafting exp too

 

Manufacture or crafting isn't really important issue in this.

And SR need to have advantage against mana potions, so 30, 35 or 40 EP with vial lost seems quite fair for me.

 

Well to be honest i really don't understand why vials are removed from higher lvl pots, ok u say it's because of too many vials in game, but what caused it? IMHO it's the "high" cooldown on food that "forced" ppl that manu/craft/pot/alch to buy feasing pots...maybe it'd be better solution to drop that cooldown a bit, so atleast cooked meat would be useful for some low-mid food consuming mixes...

How about the potions that STACK returns vial and potions that don't stack loses the vial?

 

Well, that would only keep coming vials from FP while losing vials from SR pots, unbalancing vials issue maybe even more.

Edited July 11, 2006 by ThordinElement

[MagpieLee]

Well, that would only keep coming vials from FP while losing vials from SR pots, unbalancing vials issue maybe even more.

Maybe reverse it and potions that don't stack returns vial. I'm only suggesting this because removing them is too drastic when there have been some good suggestions to lower their numbers anyway.

[Kalach]

I do. As a newbie, one of your best sources of healing can be through these potions. This gives the newbie who uses these potions a chance to sell something back to the potioner whos making FPs for the manufacturer. It sounds like a winner to me.

 

Why do you think the newbee will sell the vials if he can make mana/healt potions himself (no requirements, remember). I would just buy the first batch and then keep on making these potions for myself... since there is no vial loss.

 

You're thinking like an experienced player, not a newbie. Why would a newbie want to sit around making potions? Most newbies aren't going to look through the encyclopedia and realize they can make the potions themselves. Even if they realize the *can*, that doesn't mean they'll want to spend the time and effort making them.

 

Edit: Fixed grammar

Edited July 11, 2006 by Kalach

[Bharain]

Well to be honest i really don't understand why vials are removed from higher lvl pots, ok u say it's because of too many vials in game, but what caused it? IMHO it's the "high" cooldown on food that "forced" ppl that manu/craft/pot/alch to buy feasing pots...maybe it'd be better solution to drop that cooldown a bit, so atleast cooked meat would be useful for some low-mid food consuming mixes...

How about the potions that STACK returns vial and potions that don't stack loses the vial?

 

All potions except for the first two make the vial into a different shape so it does kind of make sense that you can't reuse these vials ... maybe in a later update (once the number of vials in circulation has reduced) potions can return a "Spoiled Vial". Harvey could then sell vials for 1 quartz, 3gc and 1 spoiled vial.

 

EDIT: woops, forgot about coord, def, att, etc ... i'll get my coat

 

EDIT2: after further thinking i've realised this wouldn't solve the problem, it'd just make vial prices go up, there would still be the huge influx of vials from FPs. If Mira charged gc+vial for potions it would remove that source without having such drastic effects on potion makers.

Edited July 11, 2006 by Bharain

[Thordin]

You can also discuss vial solution I suggested here.

[duran]

hrmf, the more i think about it the more it strikes me that the main problem is that the "newbie" ways of doing things are to "good".

 

fire essence never fail, harvesting never "fail", low level potions never fail, therefor people have to reason to move on from these if they can automate the gain from them. ie, park the char in the game for some hours doing the same thing over and over while you go watch some movies, hang around with your friends or take a nap.

 

i recall elder scrolls: morrowind having a similar silly effect on some skills, swimming was one of them. basicly you could park the character against a bridge column, leave something to hold the button down and then watch the skill points get collected.