gold

[vwpro]

ok your right at that point, but dont forget ur talking about desert chims only, and ur lvl is prob pretty high, think about the others too, who earn less then 1k

for pkers its so much diffrend, i sometiems burn over 200 Air ess a day, and around 30 srs/200 HE in 10 minutes

 

and yeh, i dont liek to make potions

i dont have the nexuses either

im a pker

[Scorpius]

How many hours per day do you play EL ?

Not sit and talk.

 

Its not about me. I dont care that much about having or not having. My way in here is to help and be nice. Not to be the strongest around. I play like everyday after working. maybe 4 hours a day. and half of the day is about to train. other half is for helping others.

[NitageR]

Err during real wars not no drop day .. it's no problem to use/break etc etc items for 20k gc in less than 1h.

Edited July 4, 2006 by NitageR

[the_voice]

ok your right at that point, but dont forget ur talking about desert chims only, and ur lvl is prob pretty high, think about the others too, who earn less then 1k

for pkers its so much diffrend, i sometiems burn over 200 Air ess a day, and around 30 srs/200 HE in 10 minutes

 

 

i made example of fluffies not chims. and my levels weren't 100 when i start play.

my point is if you don't invest something then don't expect any gain.

 

and for pk your thoughts are correct, you need a lot of money to go to pk. but see it like an expensive hobby as summoning is.

[Jezebelle]

omg voice learn to read, he says all he does is fight, NO ALCHEMY

 

go dictionary and read what NO means ok?

we are saying that fighting as a STAND ALONE skill cannot support itself, your stupid examples where you make your own srs and he make no sense in this context.

 

and jezebell why you talking about magic/summoning? this thread is about fighting. Summoning will never be profitable, but there are ways to soften the loss, such as summoning in an area where there are animals and picking up meat, or monsters and picking up GC and drops.

I remember long aog pl4atyna summoning in VC ogre a chim for drops, lmao

why say summoners bring only sorrow? thats a stupid, egoistic, arrogant statement and if you really think like that about a game i suggest you take a big break, and get real.

 

 

I did not say the summoners bring sorrow..you can tell the Voice to learn to read..I suggest you do the same

 

And yes..this is about fighters. But not one skill is self supportive..even alchemist have to know how to harvest..potioners..same story..so..you deffo need at least 2 skills developed to support yourself here.

 

And another thing..theres absolutely NO need to get abusive or flamish here, we are, as far as Im concerned on the same level, I do not look down on anyone and Im sure you dont want that either. So lets just discuss this in a normal way, without namecalling. If you cannot show that respect, I suggest this topic will be closed by the authorities.

 

Jez

[trollson]

You cannot expect training to be profitable

no, thats just stupid, you guys, get rewarded for something you like ,we dont, why?

im not going to play as bodyguard rofl, like anyone needs one, people can diss

 

so ur saying u cant be rewarded for training, why do alchemists and harvesters get exp ? , they hsould be satified for the products they make then

Training manufacturing skills is not profitable or fun; its expensive and tedious.

 

There are two ways gold comes into the game economy: Monster drops and selling to NPCs.

 

If monster drops are minimal, then Harvesters are the sole generators of wealth in the economy; they get something for (nearly) nothing, that they can sell to an NPC for gold. Yes, this is getting paid for training, but they are then constrained by the hourly experience limit.

 

Almost every creatable item cannot be sold to an NPC for more than its ingredients. So other occupations must rely on selling their services and goods to other characters. This is not training, they are actually using their skills; they still gain experience, but what they create is dictiated by profit not what is best for training.

 

How can you use your fighting skills to make money from other characters?

[Learner]

How can you use your fighting skills to make money from other characters?

PK

 

And being an MMORPG, that also means that teamwork is encouraged, so one player in one class/skill not being to make a profit by himself is acceptable!

[Lorck]

Trainers

 

Need Sr's

Need He's

Need basic armor (wich degrade alot)

Need some diss rings,tele rings

Maby essence for teleport room

 

 

 

Pkers

 

Need alot Sr's

Need alot HE AE MAG,MA,SP,EN ess

Need advanced armor (wich degrade alot)

Need alot diss rings,tele rings

Rostogol

Atleast 2-3 super expensive items

 

Evryone uses Expensive items in Pk, wich means you have to use them also, including a rostogol

wich is no drops at all

 

and that all of1k gold a hour from fluffy

 

and dont forget tankel takes or last bits of money for trying to 'fix' some things

 

 

so you tell me again how fighting can be a profit skill when you earn 1k gold per hour from fluffys

while you lose in that hour mostly more then 1k gold for expensives

 

and jeze i prefer be the bad evil stealing pker, then the egoistic alchemist who doesnt care about other people

 

 

i might be not half as pro as you because you have teh knowledge at all but :

 

monster training

 

antisocials need srs

fighters use manas so about 400 gold for wine each fluffy session

he you can make 1k yourself and train some days with (cost 160 fps with decent alch lvl, flowers and silver for free)

basic armor , i never managed to poof a tit chain before i got a new one dropped so say cost 4.5k for one tit chain

diss, tele not needed for monster train

portal essies no longer needed, xp factory in imbroglio closed

 

so you have expenses of about 800 gc on a usual fluffy session and go home with about 3k gold and some nice

tit axe books worth 550 gc on npc and maybe some capes and other stuff.

 

i in personal covered all my costs on monster training just by dropped tit axe books. if you take anti to have 10 more picks be happy with them. im happy with the several 10k of gold i alone made out of books.

 

for pk i cant give you my point of view because i only visit pk maps on no drop days for some fun.

 

 

so dont tell fighters become poor from training. pkers might and pvp'ers should for sure.

One more exemple of the classical "Chewbacca defense".

 

If you do your alch and pot you get profit. If chewbacca lives in...

 

What this has something to do with the topic "fighters cant make money with using their own skills: magic, attack and defense". If you do pot and alch you are not fighter only, but something "multiclassed".

[Lorck]

How can you use your fighting skills to make money from other characters?

PK

 

And being an MMORPG, that also means that teamwork is encouraged, so one player in one class/skill not being to make a profit by himself is acceptable!

Right. Mixers can provide itens for the fighters. And fighters can provide gold for the mixers... oh, wait they cant because they dont get enough gold from monsters.

What can fighters do for the mixers? Get bored in blue lupines till get gold to pay them?

EDIT: Oh, and you also missed the countless threads about you only losing money on pk, almost never gaining anything because of rostogols.

Edited July 4, 2006 by Lorck

[Thordin]

idc what u guys suggest, i just dont wanna do anything besides training/pk rofl

 

Wtf this, jezebell with full tit plating (i heard) and she doesnt even fight

just for the looks? give it to me then, u may look at it when ever u want.

 

 

*sighs* whats with you, fighters?

 

Just coz Im more a lover then a fighter doesnt mean I should go dressed in rags now, should I? ^^

I have been asked before why do fight bears (for their meat, even tho im a vegetarian..) in full plate?

Well, the answer is simple..the brown leather dont suit me,, thats why!

 

Even tho I dont fight much, i wanna look good..and for the record..it was a steel set I was wearing!

I dont realy like the look of titanium armour much..lol

 

get a grip, fighters..this World is NOT all about you guys..

 

*hugs*

 

Jez

 

You are playing MMORPG, the last three letters mean ROLE PLAYING GAME. Let's focus on the ROLE PLAYING part, ok? ROLE PLAYING means you can play some role, you seem fit to you. If Jezebelle wants to play noble merchant lady, worn in full plate, what's wrong with it?

 

And I think this dilemma is hard to solve. There is never-ending war between fighters and rest. Ad profit: yes, alchemy may be profitable, but did you count time unit needed for it? First you need to harvest resources, which takes approx 2/3 of time, depending on what you are mixing (metal bars need even more time to harvest), for which you don't get any money at all. Then you have to mix it and hoping that someone will buy it. Same goes with potions. Don't you dare to say that manufacture is profitable. Look at my manufacture ranking, you'll see that I am not a beginner in this, yet I do that for fun of creation, not money (I hardly get some lousy goldies for it). So the only pure-profitable skill is harvesting. But you can see, there is balance between XP and money. If you train (not PK), you receive decent amount of XP, if mix, you get less XP and some money, if you harvest, you can get max (approx) 9-11k of XP/hour, but good money for it.

 

So here it goes, either money, or XP, you can't have both. FIghters have to rely on the rest of the guild to provide them support, this encourages teamplay. If you wish to be privateer fighter, why do you play MMO then? This is about teamplay, you need us (the mixers) as inflow of items, we need you (the fighters) as a outflow of items. But you must differ between PKer and monster-hunter. Monster-hunters deserve some profit, while PKing is just showtime of skills IMO (going to PK is optional, so you cannot expect infinite inflow of "free walking items", can you?).

Edited July 4, 2006 by ThordinElement

[Lorck]

Err... i dont trully understand you Thordix...

Ok, fighters need to rely on mixers. But what they offer to the mixers? Hugs?

EDIT: Oh, and about experience you may refer to overall experience. I think mixers get nice for skill experience which makes them stay higher in top 50 and feel proud of it.

I agree that should be some pickpoints bonus if you do many skills or nexus reduced or whatever, but this does not mean that fighters need to spend hours that should be fun in mines/blue lupines when they dont like it.

Edited July 4, 2006 by Lorck

[Thordin]

As I stated above, I see no reason, why PKing should be profitable. However I agree that monster-hunters (I divide fighters into two groups: monster-hunters and PKers, just to make it clear) are not receiving enough gold coin drops from monsters to cover your expenses, unfortunately, that is economic problem on the other hand there is another thread for it, no need to discuss it here.

 

(I suggested more GC (perhaps some %chance of extra gold drop) drop and less manuable item drops (this does not include cloaks!) (to encourage market between makers and fighters) many times there)

[Aislinn]

Thread cleaned up.

If any legitimate comments were lost because they were tucked away in a post full of flames, I apologize.

 

If this discussion cannot continue civilly, the whole thread will be deleted and those responsible will be put on posting restriction.

[Zaer]

ofcourse it wont be discussed civily, anything suggested by PKers, or anything that affect PK, always gets flamed, didnt you notice after like 2 years of it?

 

bring back flame forums, they pwnnz0red

[Kedan]

To earn money from fighting just kill monsters that are below you, meaning you have to cast restore less and you make more money. This ofcourse means you get less exp, but its already been said that if you want to train you normally lose money

Edited July 4, 2006 by Kedan

[Zaer]

is like in most other fighting based games, you "farm" things lower lvls than you for drops etc, and then train on things closer to your lvl.

 

However the way the fighting system in the game works this doesnt function to the same extent. The drop rates are much less, and there are so many fewer monsters. In the other games you can easily kill 100+ monsters in 10 mins, on here its more likke 100 per hour.

To make this effective either the number of monster or what they drop needs to be increased

[Infamous]

fighters make the EL world go round so no fighters = no other things (who you gonna sell ur essies/armours/potions/rings to?)

anyway i don't like to harv or sit at storage making things all day at all, last couple of weeks i been forced needed to harv all day long to make some profit for the new items.

now all you harvers/manufacturers/potionists/crafters who don't like fighting.. put yourselves in our position, would you like to fight all day? a couple of weeks long?

 

and btw all the talk about RL and fighters being selfish/doing nothing for the community is BS this is a game and is supposed to be fun.. it's fun when you do what you like.

we buy all the stuff others make so they won't be stuck with all those items is this selfish? no not at all.. it's supporting the community.

pk'ers being ebul creating sorrow etc got nothing to do with the topic.

 

every skill supports the community in some way, fighting only needs a little help to keep on doing so.

[chaoogie]

You buy all that stuff because you choose to be a fighter/pk'r..you NEED those things, its not like you just say oh heya ill take those chains maybe i can use it in a fight one day.. you need the items to train/fight. and they boosted the gc drop rate not that long ago... maybe all monsters should drop 1kgc ...then maybe few months later everyone will have billions of gc like on old server

[carone]

I don't see what's wrong with making XP and money at the same time. Why exactly is that bad?

 

I haven't played any MMORPG's other than EL but lots of singe player RPG's and in every one of them you gain XP simply by playing the game, which is supposed to be fun, and usually is.

 

In EL most of the time you sit at some bush or ore and wait till you're full, then you go sell what you have to NPC's and with that money you can afford the fun part.

 

I think that is just wrong. Yes, I still play the game and I enjoy it a lot, but it could be so much better.

And I've said it before and I still think that a solution is to further increase money drops from monsters.

 

If the fighters have more money they can buy the things they need from the manufacturers and can concentrate on the thing they like to do and have fun doing while the manu'ers do what they enjoy doing.

Sounds easier than it is, but the way it is now, especially with all the expensive new armor and swords no fighter can afford, I think it's necessary to make some changes.

 

Relatively small steps, but we need more money than is dropped right now. The last increase was a step in the right direction but not nearly enough, imho.

[belali]

he didnt say to increase all drop's to 1 k,he said to increase it from 1-35 to 1-70 for example,and its really good idea

anyway there must be some difference between fluf and armed orc,

1-100 would be good for fluf and more for desert chim and more for mountain more more more.. till giant

[chaoogie]

..i know he didnt say increase all drops to 1kgc...that was an exagreation(spell check), it was more of a farest stretch of his idea. Also they did increase the rate for Gc Dropped and loved the change as they got the good xp and better gc, fluffy and mountain drops should stay the same as what they are now, and have d.chims/forest chims drop more than 65gc as they are newer monsters.

 

Also in most the other skills you lose Gc to the Xp you get for said skill, with a/d you get easy and constant xp, there is no limit or cap to it, AND you get Gc, and lots of drops you can use, and possibly sell(which now adays is kind of hard).

 

Summoning = no profit, you can summon chims/fluffies but most you try to pk diss/can pwn 4-7 chims/flufs/ or die and only lose rosto and come back and pwn your deadish summons.

Manufacturing = decent profit could be better

Crafting = breaking evenish gc/xp, unless you have a guild/friends who give discounts on ingreds

 

 

 

and does anyone see some weird ass forum code above my posts?

Edited July 5, 2006 by chaoogie

[belali]

so if monster drop's good why all fighters harvest,alch or making pot?

 

or why they are so poor(i mean pk'er like scarr)

Edited July 5, 2006 by belali

[trollson]

is like in most other fighting based games...

There is much more to EL than just a fighting. While it is an important part, it should not be considered the reason EL exists.

I don't see what's wrong with making XP and money at the same time. Why exactly is that bad?I haven't played any MMORPG's other than EL but lots of singe player RPG's and in every one of them you gain XP simply by playing the game, which is supposed to be fun, and usually is.

Games like EL are designed to encourage character interaction and cooperation, which makes the difference between it being an MMORPG, and not just a lot of single-player RPGs in a shared environment. If you could achieve both XP and wealth easily through training, then you really don't need to interact with anyone else.

 

Other reasons are to do with the type of economics which exist in this genre of game; these are discussed in depth in the various threads on the economy.

 

One quick thought; to keep a seperation between training and wealth:

increasing the drops value can be offset by decreasing the spawn frequency

This would require more variability in an individual creature; at the moment all creatures of a particular type are identical. This would add nicely to a few other suggestions which have come up, for instance;

• variable strength monsters, to cover gaps between types, and represented by adjusting their sizes.
  
• named spawns, so a monster's name need not be just "Goblin", but could be "The Goblin King" (or even "Bob").
  
• exotic ingredient drops to feed back into the civilian community; a fluffy skin cape could have interesting effects.
  

...never really understood where a Fluffy rabbit keeps all that gold anyway

[chaoogie]

I meant when you train a/d + get drops+constant xp+decent Gc, your winning each time you kill something, and you can not be a PURE anything in this game, you need to do other things to advance in what you want to advance in. Maybe he isnt poor because he has lots of items just not Gc for new weapons/armor and cant make the money fast enough with harvesting and training on flufs... small suggest serp/tit long forest chims, good drop and gc. plus they drop EmP's

[carone]

Games like EL are designed to encourage character interaction and cooperation, which makes the difference between it being an MMORPG, and not just a lot of single-player RPGs in a shared environment. If you could achieve both XP and wealth easily through training, then you really don't need to interact with anyone else.

Making XP and money at the same time does not prevent character interaction at all.

On the contrary, right now the fighters make the things they need for fighting themselves, because they can't afford to buy them. How exactly is that helping player interaction more than them having money and possibly buying those things from other players(alch, manu, crafters)?