A suggestion for nexus's

[iktor]

OK, before I say anything further this is just a suggestion that I have. It is quite long because I didn’t just want to make a bold statement without showing I have put some thought behind it. One: It is a SUGGESTION not a request. Two: I am happy for you to put forward constructive criticisms or arguments against, just please don’t just come on and say my ideas crap without anything constructive (its just spam otherwise). Three: the game is run by entropy and those he chooses to be mods/devs, not me. He will do what he thinks is in the best interest of the game. My intentions are only to enlighten both him, and the other devs into an idea that I have. If they consider anything worthwhile they will implement at their discretion. I have read the forums quite thoroughly to see if anyone has posted the same thing. I believe that these ideas have been touched upon within other topics but not discussed as I have here.

 

Currently I feel that using pick points on nexus’s are causing negative effects on the game. The two ideas I have for changing them would be to take them out altogether, or be based on a culmination of one or more skills. Ie, the nexus for armour and weapons could be based on the att/def levels of the player. The magic nexus could be based on a players crafting/manufacture/magic skill. These are purely examples and are not necessarily the way I would expect these two nexuses to be worked out.

 

I feel that the game is not as “free” with character development as it could be. Anyone who chooses to spend precious pick points on anything other than phy/coord attributes and human nexus is putting themselves at a distinct disadvantage on the battlefield. It is my understanding that the best combat fighters are those that have put all their points into combat related attributes. A player wishes to make any reasonable weapons/armours/potions etc is at least 4 levels behind someone who doesn’t. A considerable disadvantage particularly at the higher levels. I foresee many of the top pk’rs being opposed to this but - I suspect- they prefer the class structure as it is now, rather than giving all players a fair chance.

 

How are players limited if not by nexus’ then? My suggestion would be to change to a level based style of abilities. Players will be able to do more as their level in a particular skill is increased. This concept is not foreign to EL, in fact it is already implemented in both magic and summoning skills. This idea would also help harvesting to become a “real” skill again (I’ve noted in many posts that a number of people view the harvest skill as somewhat redundant). Players would only be able to harvest items dependant on their skill level. Exp would obviously be more rewarding as the higher level items would give more exp.

 

I envisage this idea would also be a much needed boost to the economy. At this point in time most players can attempt anything at very low levels. Currently anyone can attempt a skill (obviously failure rate is high when you don’t have the levels) by purchasing the necessary research (books) and getting the nexus reqd. With my idea players who do not have the skill level will be required to buy the items if they want them thus pushing the economy of the game. For example, a noob can currently enter the game and use his 4 pp’s to get inorganic 4 and go straight out to diamonds. By making a min level (say 50-60 for instance) only those who have worked hard on harvesting may start gathering these ingredients, the only other way to obtain them would be to buy them. Also something as grand as the new hydrogenium ore would not have to require a sword to be harvested, just a very high (>100?) harvest level. That way the ore would still be rare enough to be extremely valuable.

 

By making skills level based rather than nexus based many items could be made useful. Most players bypass the need for many items by getting the nexus’s reqd for better stuff. If there was a limit on what a player could use, depending on their skill level, item use could be attained by increasing levels. ie a player may not upgrade their iron shield for steel until level ## defence. Thus there are benefits for players in achieving certain goals. I know that many would be upset now at the potential at not being able to do things that they can currently. However, I feel that there is a sense of accomplishment that is rewarding when a goal is reached.

 

I also believe removing nexus’s would help assist in the implementation of other skills. At this point in time most skills are associated with a particular nexus. If new skills are introduced they will probably need to be associated with the current nexus’s, or even worse more nexus created, thus widening the rift between combat specialists and all rounders. With a skill based system new skills could be implemented without having to be integrated with a complex system of nexus requirements.

 

In conclusion what I’m getting at is that I believe there is a class system being created, purist fighters and others. My assumption is that this is not a deliberate action by the devs but of course I may be wrong. In any case, I love the game and appreciate all the work being done by the devs. I hope they (devs) find something worthy of note in my opinions but do not expect them to act on it. If people like my ideas and Ent chooses to implement something based on anything that I have said then I am glad to have been a part of the creation of this game. My only intention here is to offer a suggestion to something I have noticed and have my own opinions on. I understand that the whole community does not share my thoughts or ideas and you are most certainly welcome to disagree.

 

Be gentle

Edited July 2, 2006 by iktor

[Thordin]

I have already suggested A/D requirements (here) on weapons/armor, and after a discussion, the topic was closed (on my own request), and this is what Entropy replied:

 

And no, there will be no requirements for the armors. The requirements are intrinsic.

 

However I am supporter of level requirements as well. I wish you good luck in your effort, although I think it will be most likely in vain

Edited July 2, 2006 by ThordinElement

[Hyperion]

well there are a lot of ppl for the lvl requirements... but entropy would have added it if it was good for the game I think... so he must be convinced otherwise...(if you could explain what the reason for not adding them is that would be a lot clearer)

 

Hype

[Thordin]

well there are a lot of ppl for the lvl requirements... but entropy would have added it if it was good for the game I think... so he must be convinced otherwise...(if you could explain what the reason for not adding them is that would be a lot clearer)

 

Hype

 

I respect Entropy's decision (however I do not agree, but still I respect it) about that. He just thinks, it doesn't match his vision. It's his game after-all.

 

If I say that I do not want to do something, it means that I consider that it does not match my vision on how the games should be, so it is not going to be implemented. Period.

[iktor]

If human nexus stayed and others were taken out they would at least stop those choosing to do some manufacturing/potioning/summoning... from being disadvantaged in combat.

 

If a person was to choose the nexus allowing them to manu/craft/summon/potion everything it would set them back 22 pick points. How can someone in this position even come close to a pure fighter. They cant unless they are 22 levels higher. In other words, to do anything but fight and commit your points to fighting is disadvantaging you!

[skodarap]

If human nexus stayed and others were taken out they would at least stop those choosing to do some manufacturing/potioning/summoning... from being disadvantaged in combat.

 

If a person was to choose the nexus allowing them to manu/craft/summon/potion everything it would set them back 22 pick points. How can someone in this position even come close to a pure fighter. They cant unless they are 22 levels higher. In other words, to do anything but fight and commit your points to fighting is disadvantaging you!

 

well i fight a lot, but also do all the other things - i have 28 nexuses atm, and planning to add 3-4 more, and only thing that helps a bit to even things out with pure fighters for me are neg perks

[Aislinn]

If you had searched first, you would have seen that this has been discussed to death. Literally.

[iktor]

ok, sorry aislinn. i did search but did not find it discussed in the entirety as I have discussed it. Please don't make the mistake of thinking this post is based solely around the idea of using weapons/armour based on levels.

 

I am more concerned by the fact that because I have taken nexus for inorganic I have made it harder in combat. Those who attempt to take more nexus for skills other than fighting compound the issue, that being they need to make more oa's to compete with pure fighters.

 

I did a search for nexus and went back almost a year. I did not find any posts discussing the points i have raised but that is probably because I did not search thoroughly enough then.

 

Please feel free to lock this thread and i shall try to be more thorough in the future.

[Aislinn]

I'm not arguing what your points are, I totally agree with you on all of them. However, all of these issues have been discussed and argued and pleaded to no avail.

[trollson]

I must be in a very small camp, in that I rather like the nexus approach, although I think that its application is watered down, which makes it weak. Rather than scrap it, I'd make it more decisive.

 

I really don't think that hard level requirements are right for an RPG system like EL; more encouragement for levelling, decreased diversity in characters, and by taking away character development decisions, pre-packaging progression, moves the system towards the class-based camp. The idea itself is straight from the class-and-level school of RPG design, and the use of the term "level" to describe skills is perhaps to blame for encouraging this way of thinking.

...I could go on here, just be glad I deleted an essay worth of RPG design & theory

The only hard decisions players have to make for character development is how they spend their pick points. This is where they can make their character's different from the rest, unique and personal.

 

Why is there such resentment to spending their hard earned pick points on nexus?

Buying nexus levels is not a choice but a necessity

If you want to make use of your high level skills, you need to take the nexus to enable the tasks, and people always resent paying a tax.

 

So can we adjust the system so that spending on nexus is a valid choice, and not a requirement?

 

This brings me to the second weakness in the current nexus system:

Nexus and skill levels are highly coupled

As skill level increases, tasks of matching difficulty require higher and higher nexus. The two character parameters are not independant, and it is a valid suggestion to reduce the redundancy by removing one of them (obviously the nexus).

 

I would suggest two changes to make nexus more useful and to allow greater diversity in character developement:

1. Decouple nexus requirements from skill levels. Low difficulty tasks can require high nexus, and some high difficulty tasks require no nexus at all. It is then possible to persue a skill to the highest level and still exploit it without spending on nexus.
   
2. Make nexus equivalent to other attributes, in their expected ranges. Define nexus as attributes representing non-physical/mental characteristics.
   

A couple of quick examples, since I am pressed for time:

• Spend all on P/C and become a Conan-like fighter, using primative weapons and armour, relying on physical strength to succeed.
  
• Spend on a high human nexus, use the most sophisicated weapons and armour, flashy rapier play, to win your duels.
  
• The weak and clumsy farm-boy-with-magical-aptitude, spends heavily and early on magic nexus to cast powerful but unweildy (low difficulty) spells.
  

Additional points:

task driven design, not skill driven

• skills are just the character's learned ability in some type of activity. Presenting skills as lists of tasks echos back to class-and-level design, which limits the concept.
  
• Think of tasks in their own right, described by the following:
  

1. the applicable skill and technical difficulty of the task.
   
   
2. the required nexus and nexus level to even attempt the task (if any).
   
   
3. the required knowledge (if any).
   
   
   

• Don't assoicate nexus and skill: The nexus for a task is based on the nature of the task, and not the associated skill. Any skill can potentially be used in conjunction with any nexus to perform a range of tasks.
  
• Attributes as nexus: If nexus are treated as primary attributes, then the reverse is true: primary attributes as pre-requisits for tasks. However, since attributes already affect the game in other ways, this additional use should be limited. Of couse, it helps if the other attributes all have equally valuable roles in the game!
  
  

Edited July 4, 2006 by trollson