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Lorck

Honorable pking

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One more thing. There is no point to outlaw a person for doing what they are suposed to do and when people are already warned. You just put them at the same level of the scammers and ruined his/her reputation.

 

But now you're saying that nothing you do in PK is outlawish? You stated above that the following was outlawish:

 

Attack friendly people, attack neutrals or friendlies while pvp, to say you will not attack then attack, call someone to 1vs1 and call a friend to help you, pull weapon when you was training pvp, keep the bag if you requested a friendly fight. There may be more, but those are what i can think at moment.

 

EDIT: Oh, attack the training partner of your guildie too.

 

Which i agree with. I also agree with:

 

These actions, when reported in outlaw forums, where they belong should not receive ridicule directed at the poster.

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One simple question: if PKing is "outlawish and not liked", why we have those maps then for?

As said thousands time before, you got warned, you got even warned by messages during the play. (Thyralax is writing them iirc). Lorck is undoubtedly right in that you CHOOSE to enter a PK, and NOBODY MAKES you do so. On the other hand, scammers/bagjumpers give you no choice, they simply do those nasty things.

 

And one note: without PKers, we the producers will go jobless.

 

This debate is getting ridiculous. There are PKers, respected and taken as an example, and they are PKers disliked and hated, but thas DOES NOT MAKE THEM OUTLAWS. It simply adds a flavor to fighting, but they do nothing wrong but the very natural thing on such maps.

 

EDIT: typos

Edited by ThordinElement

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lol you have a brain deficiency bharain?

 

he is saying that:

 

If you kill someone after promising not to kill them, or kill an ally, or take a deathbag after agreeing to a FF, or attack a pvper then you are an outlaw and should be posted here.

 

However if you kill someone in a pk map you are not an outlaw, you are merely playing the game. What Ghrae said was that anyone who PKs is an outlaw, which is the most ignorant and self-centred statement i have heard for a long time. It is people like him who become destructive forces in this world.

 

PK maps are a place to PK. If you make a promise to someone and then kill them, or do any of the things both me and lorck have listed then you are an outlaw and as such a post should be made. However if you just kill someone in a pk map and you havnt promised them that you wont then you are not an outlaw. They took the risk by entering the map and so cannot complain about the consequences.

 

These are the facts, they cannot be disputed nor changed.

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One simple question: if PKing is "outlawish and not liked", why we have those maps then for?

As said thousands time before, you got warned, you got even warned by messages during the play. (Thyralax is writing them iirc). Lorck is undoubtedly right in that you CHOOSE to enter a PK, and NOBODY MAKES you do so. On the other hand, scammers/bagjumpers give you no choice, they simply do those nasty things.

 

And one note: without PKers, we the producers will go jobless.

 

This debate is getting ridiculous. There are PKers, respected and taken as an example, and they are PKers disliked and hated, but thas DOES NOT MAKE THEM OUTLAWS. It simply adds a flavor to fighting, but they do nothing wrong but the very natural thing on such maps.

 

EDIT: typos

 

Let's take this a step further... if we have maps that are PK and if you walk in you get attacked... then why have alliances? Why not just make it a free for all? And then, let's make it against game rules to have alliances, because hey, it's a PK map and you were warned, you must want to fight.

 

Yes, I'm being sarcastic... but as you can see, people choose every day not to PK when it suits them. And some PKers (hello, did you see the word "some") choose to kill people because it's really easy and they get to "lol" afterwards. And that is why we have "Outlaws".

 

By the way, if you don't like the Outlaw section you should ignore it. Such discussions only serve to bring more attention to the section. This thread has told us there is a reason for it and dishonorable PK does happen.

 

If you feel wrong accussed, you have the ability to counter the thread with your side of the story.

 

It almost sounds like despite PKers admitting there are valid reasons for Outlaws they'd feel safer if it wasn't there... to sweep it under the wrong so no one can tarnish the reputation of a PKer (because as we all know reputations are so uber important in the game).

 

What Ghrae said was that anyone who PKs is an outlaw, which is the most ignorant and self-centred statement i have heard for a long time. It is people like him who become destructive forces in this world.

 

Misquoted and out of context. Come on Zaer, put the school education to use!

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read my post ghrae, i have summed up everything that has been said by the PKers and the majority of the community. Do you have nothing better to do with your life than try to continue the arguement?

 

Im out of this thread, eveything that needs to be said has been said and is obvious to anyone who wishes to know. Anyone who continues this debate needs to get a life.

 

Misquoted and out of context. Come on Zaer, put the school education to use!

 

funny guy, the fact that i am much younger and able to act more maturely says alot about you. Have a nice day, i suggest reading a book or going outside :blush:

Edited by Zaer

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And some PKers (hello, did you see the word "some") choose to kill people because it's really easy and they get to "lol" afterwards. And that is why we have "Outlaws".

 

So KILLING PLAYERS on PLAYER KILLING maps is considered outlawish? :blush:

 

Oh dear, someday I'll get posted in outlaws by a phantom warrior from Naralik for killing him, while training. It's the same principle.

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And some PKers (hello, did you see the word "some") choose to kill people because it's really easy and they get to "lol" afterwards. And that is why we have "Outlaws".

 

So KILLING PLAYERS on PLAYER KILLING maps is considered outlawish? :blush:

 

Oh dear, someday I'll get posted in outlaws by a phantom warrior from Naralik for killing him, while training. It's the same principle.

 

Not the same principle. You don't train by killing players who are no where near your levels. You couldn't possibly kill enough of them to make it worth your time or effort.

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And some PKers (hello, did you see the word "some") choose to kill people because it's really easy and they get to "lol" afterwards. And that is why we have "Outlaws".

 

So KILLING PLAYERS on PLAYER KILLING maps is considered outlawish? :blush:

 

Why not? Bagjumping on the bagjumping maps is also consider outlawish. (for those who don't follow, *all* maps can be considered bagjumping maps. And scamming maps, too.)

 

Just because you *can* doesn't mean that you *should* whenever you feel like it. And since there isn't a set of community rules, people who think they were done dirty are always going to post about it, whether you or I agree with them or not.

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Okay, let's pretend my second line does not exist.

 

Still the question remain: is killing players on player killing map outlawish? and maybe morei important question: why?

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One more thing. There is no point to outlaw a person for doing what they are suposed to do and when people are already warned.

 

You're supposed to PK in PK maps, you're warned before you enter those maps so therefore no PK action is outlawish? Lorck seems to have missed:

 

If you kill someone after promising not to kill them, or kill an ally, or take a deathbag after agreeing to a FF, or attack a pvper then you are an outlaw and should be posted here.

 

from his summary/explanation.

 

lol you have a brain deficiency bharain?

 

Take your personal attacks elsewhere thank you.

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I will say again.. Not ALL PK happens on PK maps. some are Arenas. And not ALL give warnings either :) and I agree with Kalach. He summed it up nicely :cry:

Why not? Bagjumping on the bagjumping maps is also consider outlawish. (for those who don't follow, *all* maps can be considered bagjumping maps. And scamming maps, too.)

 

Just because you *can* doesn't mean that you *should* whenever you feel like it. And since there isn't a set of community rules, people who think they were done dirty are always going to post about it, whether you or I agree with them or not.

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Still the question remain: is killing players on player killing map outlawish? and maybe morei important question: why?

 

Why can you "bagjump" someone? I'm not saying that there shouldn't be the possibility of role playing someone evil. What I'm saying is that if you do what is considered evil things, the players do have the right to post you as an outlaw. Sometimes those claims have merit. Sometimes they do not. The specifics determine any actual wrong doing.

Edited by Ghrae

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Okay, let's pretend my second line does not exist.

 

Still the question remain: is killing players on player killing map outlawish? and maybe morei important question: why?

 

If you scam or bagjump an experienced player that has had the warning that scamming or bagjumping is possible on any map, you still harm that player against their will. That is considered outlawish.

 

If you PK any unwilling player that has had the warning that PK'ing is possible on the current map, you still harm that player against their will. That is no different from the above statement, so why shouldn't it be considered outlawish?

 

Yes, you can avoid it by not going through those maps. You can also avoid bagjumping and scamming. If you don't want scammed, don't trade with other players.

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Okay, I got your point. But my point was that these maps were actually designed for killing each other, yet no map was originally designed for bagjumping and scamming. Killing eachother is the purpose of that map, or is it not?

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Ye, dont play the game and you will not get scammed. Its impossible to play without trade with anyone else. :cry:

 

You can be attacked without willing to fight in a pk map. But then again, you accepted which that could happen, you knew the risks and agreed with it. You should not whine when that happened.

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imo, if you (generic) step in arena with full armor, col, serpent, cape etc. and attack a 30/30 player that's pvping, then, you *deserve* to be called rude, disonorable and so...

 

What's the point in attack a defenseless player? Just to ruin a newbie fun?

 

No surprise that someone come in forum to cry...

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Okay, I got your point. But my point was that these maps were actually designed for killing each other, yet no map was originally designed for bagjumping and scamming.

 

The developpers chose not to use a duel system in PK to allow people to play the bad guy. They did limit PK, though, to allow newbs a chance to get started. They also chose not to lock the contents of a drop-bag or death-bag to the owner, to allow people to play the bad guy.

 

Killing eachother is the purpose of that map, or is it not?

 

Sure... In fact, I would say that the game was purposely designed to allow for unwilling PK victims, bagjumpers and scammers. Scamming has been limited by rule to be only appropriate for non-newbs. PK has been limited by code to be only appropriate in PK maps.

 

The outlaws forum was purposely design to allow for people who are the victims of any such activities to post complaints and warning, and for the accused to defend their cases to the community.

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I always say, people who dont have either:

-at least 50/50 of att/def

-80 of life

-hability to cast restore

should not pvp. There are zillions of monsters to train on at that level. And training pvp without those requisites meet is not productive. You would get better exp/drops from monsters.

 

And again, i said that attack non-enemies while pvp is outlawish and rude. But to be outlawish and rude is not a thing that most pkers do, some are rude and outlawish but there are plenty of harvester bagjumpers and manuers who destroy the economy. So all harvest0rs and manuers are ebul too?

Edited by Lorck

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Ye, dont play the game and you will not get scammed. Its impossible to play without trade with anyone else. :cry:

 

I disagree.

 

#1, I could play a manufacturer who does all the harvesting I want by myself.

#2, I could play the game but limit myself to only things I got from drops.

 

But, you are right in that I would be missing a portion of the game if I tried to do things. Just as I am missing a portion of the game by not going into PK maps.

 

And again, i said that attack non-enemies while pvp is outlawish and rude. But to be outlawish and rude is not a thing that most pkers do, some are rude and outlawish but there are plenty of harvester bagjumpers and manuers who destroy the economy. So all harvest0rs and manuers are ebul too?

 

Sure... Haven't you seen the flowers/economy thread? More or less an outlaw thread for people who use the money bushes.

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I'm a new character I won't lie. Fairly weak and full of niave ideas and beliefs I'm sure as most of us were when we first started out.

 

 

So let me say I've read all of this thread and the BoD thread (which was ghastly) and have a few things to say. Honor??? What is that? It differs from culture to culture place to place. You know what I think if you go into a pk map weather you are NEW are not, you have to know you may be attacked without provication. So don't complain about it. I've had to cross many pk maps and been killed many times for it, but life goes on...if you're going to cross a pk map but you don't plan on fighting...don't carry anything valuable. That just seems like common sense to me.

 

Next, if you want to fight....what's honorable? I say 1 on 1 is honorable, that's it. I don't care about anything else. I don't pick people out to pk though they generally pick me. Now my solution to this was to get BoD...sound dumb? Why it keeps me safe. Before walk through pk say to get to wolfram...get killed by someone 5 times my level. No big deal it's his right as the pk map is his terrain and his element. Now with BoD whose gonna just walk up and attack? Some might, but the chances go down. In doing such I have saved myself a lot of time and trouble. That's smart, and time is money everyone should know that. Hell even after 2 days in the game you know that.

 

The fact is everyone wants to win, and nobody wants to lose. That's to be expected. There are solutions to some of these problems though I think.

 

Don't go into a pk map alone. It's no worse than walking through a bad part of town where you know people get mugged often. Would you walk that street at night alone? Probably not...pk is no different there is always someone waiting just around the corner to "mug" you.

 

Rosto will not always save you! Don't think it will. It doesn't make you invincible. Don't believe me...eh wait till someone pulls out a BoD. Seriously everyone seems to think there are these set rules on how you should pk, and what should be allowed and shouldn't be. All I have to say is what the hell! What's next, am I going to have to stand in a certain spot and ask when I can attack and heal in a pk map :P and be told what weapon I can and can't use.

 

What's ironic is that these so called "high level" players that are preaching this (not all of you the one's I'm talking to should know who they are) are in fact guilty of many infractions themselves. If someone comes into a pk map no matter who would you kill them? Some wouldn't some would I'd say. IF it was a noob a lot would, knowing that they had no chance. Now let me ask you, is attacking someone that has no chance honorable? Not really, it's xenocide. Yet many do it. If a high level character comes in unarmed not looking to fight but to instead harvest wolfram for example...would you kill him. Chances are you'd try and take advantage of what you'd view as a weakness. Is this honorable? No.

 

There is no honor in battle is my point. Disagree with me fine, want to ignore me even better, think I'm a bad person *shrugs* so be it. It doesn't change the fact to be the best you have to be more ruthless then the guy next to you. That's just how it is. I don't condone fighting someone 4 on 1, but if it happens *shrugs* deal with it. Instead of crying about it, get even. Fight fire with fire. They want to fight unhonorably return the favor. Make them pay and wish they'd never laid eyes on your char. But instead what do we get....crying...he did this he did that, he cheated...high school all over again *shakes his head*

 

Bah great game, one of the best I've seen...to bad there are to many whiners.

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I'm going to say my opinion - from most of Lorck's posting, I get the impression that somehow, he considers me a cheater for NOT going into PK maps to PK - some mod wants to clarify to him that you CAN doesn't mean you HAVE TO? Or maybe he's right - if I enter a PK map, and don't attack anyone, I should see Aislinn, Learner, or some other mod sending me a PM warning or ruling me, or in extreme cases locking my character - all because I choose not to PK...

 

Wouldn't that be a big waste of time for them to deal with - just as much as them going after every scammer or bagjumper would waste their time. Or going after PKers in PK maps for PKing would also be a waste of time.

 

There is a difference between game rules, and player rules. In the game, you can die, or hit a tp nexus, or drop a bag and walk off - you can leave a bag. It is a game feature, completely legal, that someone could walk onto the left bag, and remove whatever they want from it. By PLAYER rules, this is considered outlaw behavior.

 

It is a game feature that allows unbalanced trading - you don't have to offer a proper value for your items, or receive the proper return for a trade to go through. So, Scamming too is a game feature, within the rules for the most part, but then again, outlaw behavior.

 

To fully drive home my point - PK maps are another game feature - you walk onto them, and you CAN be attacked by other players - though this is not the NORMAL condition, as the NORMAL condition on any map is not fighting. Now, it is a game feature that someone can attack and slaughter someone less than a quarter of their levels - again, a game feature, fully within the rules. On the other hand, that is outlaw behavior - it definitely isn't honorable.

 

The simple existance of the outlaw forum only allows the distinction of honorable players from the dishonorable outlaw players. What is the old phrase? Ah, yes - "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen." If you can't stand that when you PK someone dishonorably, and they bring it up in the outlaw forum, stay out of the outlaw forum.

 

BTW, Zaer - good job bypassing a forum filter.

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Oh dear, someday I'll get posted in outlaws by a phantom warrior from Naralik for killing him, while training. It's the same principle.

 

Can you get posted in outlaws for killing what's already dead? :P

Edited by Daxon

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