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Lorck

Honorable pking

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That may be dishonorable pking too vamp. Its not the point.

 

The point is some people saying it is generally an outlaw action. Its not. If you got bagjumped or get scammed or whatever you did not have a choice. When you entered a pk map you in fact had a choice.

 

When trading with someone, the normal is not being scammed. If you get scammed the another person is an outlaw. When some leave a bag, either for dieing or dropping itens, the normal is to leave the bag there, if someone get the content (and dont killed you) you can call him/her outlaw.

 

The normal in pk is to get attacked, and you choosed to enter the map.

Edited by Lorck

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the thing is, outlaws was made to warn other people of unfavorable circumstances- such as running across certain payers on PK maps. if someone puts your name there its just a warning to others-this person is highly likely to pk you- i mean, if you had low stats and had to go into a pk map for some reason, like the wine quest, wouldnt you want to be warned of people who are known to pk and to steer clear of them? it doesnt put a bad name on any pkers out there, but merely as a warning (although you'd think people would steer clear of anyone on them). to me, pkers do not ever fall under the same category as bagjumpers, so please dont mistake that i think pk=scam. i do realize that if i go onto a pk map i should expect to get pked, but if theres anyone i should avoid i would like to know.

those names that make it there only affect me when i'm in those pk maps and never outside of them.

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[\quote] ha! honrable pking? I never saw honorable in pking. :D Pking is all about showing if you can beat this player or top another one yo been training hard to beat in pk areas so bad. its all about look right here > ;) . There's no honor in pking! It's a matter of kill or be killed. Why should players have honor in pking? Some people pk to gain some respect and be noticed by people and so many reasons a person would pk. But for honor? I think not. In my opinion, it is to gain respect thats all i'm saying see this guy? he has respect lol > :)

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if someone puts your name there its just a warning to others-this person is highly likely to pk you- i mean, if you had low stats and had to go into a pk map for some reason, like the wine quest, wouldnt you want to be warned of people who are known to pk and to steer clear of them?

There are already a warning when you enter the map, and as i said to attack is the rule in pk, not the exception. The pk maps nowadays are almost empty, if you need to be there for some reason and see another person, just run on sight, dont wait to see if the guy is an honorable one or not.

And yes, posting in outlaws will make the joy of some of your enemies and make them talk bullshit about you without any merit, and even warp the initial subject in a desesperate try to make you look bad. Look at desdamona's thread, several people did exactly this with her and most of them are my friends, and desda my enemy.

Edited by Lorck

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Wow, your saying if a player kills another player he becomes an outlaw? Just for killing another play? what is this game coming to. PK is a part of the game and because you get killed it shouldn't cause the pker to become an "outlaw". Wow pking was so much different 3 years ago when the older players were around. This is just sickening.

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Although I respect Ghrae as a wise person, I have to disagree with him now.

 

PKing should NOT being considered anything else but playing, not acting outlawish. To enter a PK map, you have to actively participate on that and you are given warning before you do so. Ergo all actions have come from you and you only and you willingly agreed with the risk that someone may kill you and take your possessions you drop. That's what PK maps have been made for IMO. Just look at others MMORPG, PKing is common doing there, not considered outlawish at all, because you choose to enter such a map, nobody can force you (luring the defensleless newbs is another thing, for they don't know, but then it's abusement, not outlaw).

 

But there is a big BUT!!! Whenever some unexperienced player enter such a map for whatever the reason, someone kills him and he is complaing at outlaws, usually PKers cry on him and not being polite to him, explaining what happened and why in a polite way. This may give wrong look on them and such as this, they are considered mean and rude, which may lead that they are misplaced for outlaws.

 

So my to summarize this: if someone kills you on PK, he is not considered an outlaw, but he should also react (or at least try) politely either.

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Ok, i was reading an outlaw thread and i saw a mod (Ghrae) comenting this:

Being PK'd (illegal or otherwise) is typically considered an outlaw action.

Of course i will start to attack his guild (no, i never did it before, ask Kinalor) for this, but its not my point.

 

My main point is: i barely cant believe in what i read. So if attack a bagjumper is an outlaw action.

 

And finally, why to have pk maps? If you use them people say you are an outlaw and blame you for using a game feature.

This was to be original response.....thought I would see how it went first, and let others offer their opinions.

Okay........In the outlaw Thread Ghrae responded in his capacity as a mod, so really if this is to be considered a declaration of war by you??? I would say it is not against CEL but at the mod team.

Have you thought this through?? it sets a precedent .

As usual my comments are tongue in cheek.

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But, there is also a mindset here....I wonder how many people here remember Brisingammen and Shenriss?

for those who don't let me try to explain...they are a rl couple who played....formed their own guild with rl friends. They played with honour. I don't think they pk'd, everything went good until suddenley they flew up the ratings, then they didnt get any peace. They pvp together....and were continually attacked.

Their names are still high up the ratings.....(unless they have made new char's) they have sadly gone.

This type of game.....where you can do "harm" to your opponent will always bring out the worst in a few

and that can spoil for the many. You hear the term Pro used.....and several use it to describe themselves, well......there has been only one pro player during my time...one player who altered the game for us all....altered it for those who might never know of him....that is Mr Mind. He had a clear vision....to f*@%$ the economy and he did it.

;X sorry for the OT but i'll clear this out ^^

they went (at least shenriss) to the french server for more role play and less pk. imo if ppl don't want to get attacked on pk map they should go play on an other server -_- (port 300 for info but frnech only :( ) and do like shenriss.

@ molime : u are right, PK map for player killing...

 

 

 

~Michic0_oL (aka TommyKnocker)

 

edit :

and well... imo the topic is going nowhere : we got on one side the low lvls & non fighters who post as soon as they are pked "omfg [XXXXX] killed me while training" or "[XXXXX] is a bagjumper : he killed me while pvp" etc... and the fighters who say : its normal, ur on a pk map... if u don't wanna be killed don't enter a pk map.

well, thing is each time u get in a pk map u get a warning... so don't be surprized if you get killed, and this is, according to me, enough to answer to lorck. PKers shouldn't be considered as outlaws coz ppl getting in a pk map are warned. Take it like Sin, or NItager, laugh and train hard to get ur revenge.

Edited by Mr.Yndiana

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Okay........In the outlaw Thread Ghrae responded in his capacity as a mod, so really if this is to be considered a declaration of war by you??? I would say it is not against CEL but at the mod team.

Have you thought this through?? it sets a precedent .

OMG, since you are an inteligent person, this is malice. Ok, lets take down teh troll:

 

Lets read at Ghrae's signature.

***Unless otherwise stated, my posts are my opinion, NOT official***

Where in that post he stated it was official? If he said that i would just stfu.

 

Ghrae is a player, and have player opinions. If he makes some offensive coment (it was the case) as a player, other players cant react to that. I left CEL out of this, read one of my comments on this topic.

 

Its extremly unlikely that i will see Ghrae on a pk map, because almost never he goes there. So, the chances of he getting killed are extremly slim. In the other hand, he can ask to some higher level fighter/summoner to take me down and they will. So, there are a no win situation for me. And i still did that. Why? Because it was the right thing to do.

 

Oh, vamp, it was just unbelieveble to try to warp an issue to make me "have a war against the mod team". I knew you could be low, but not THAT low.

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Okay........In the outlaw Thread Ghrae responded in his capacity as a mod, so really if this is to be considered a declaration of war by you??? I would say it is not against CEL but at the mod team.

Have you thought this through?? it sets a precedent .

OMG, since you are an inteligent person, this is malice. Ok, lets take down teh troll:

 

Lets read at Ghrae's signature.

***Unless otherwise stated, my posts are my opinion, NOT official***

Where in that post he stated it was official? If he said that i would just stfu.

 

Ghrae is a player, and have player opinions. If he makes some offensive coment (it was the case) as a player, other players cant react to that. I left CEL out of this, read one of my comments on this topic.

 

Its extremly unlikely that i will see Ghrae on a pk map, because almost never he goes there. So, the chances of he getting killed are extremly slim. In the other hand, he can ask to some higher level fighter/summoner to take me down and they will. So, there are a no win situation for me. And i still did that. Why? Because it was the right thing to do.

 

Oh, vamp, it was just unbelieveble to try to warp an issue to make me "have a war against the mod team". I knew you could be low, but not THAT low.

actually old chap, I was taking the piss out of you...... I did say it was tongue in cheek :)

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Sorry if that was the case. I feel so stupid. :)

Before people say, yes, i am stupid. But just now i got the feeling. And i also can see people using it in future comments about me. \o/

Edited by Lorck

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Not all Pk maps give warnings :) Me and a Buddy of Mine got it good in SKF :P The worst Pk that ever happened to me and I still didn't post in outlaws simple because I have my own outlaw list. I don't really care what map I am on, anyone who attacks me without MY consent. i take it as an offense. I personal offront but I don't post in outlaws. Even when I feel some deserve it like those who have now ruined Trassian Fight School, Egratia Point Arena and Irenveron cave. I don't even know where to train anymore, lol. But thats just how I play my char. So I hope others don't take it personal either. Evil is as evil does and to My Char if someone attacks for no reason than just because is an affront to my Sweettea awesomeness. i actually tend to take is a compliment. They just can't keep their serps off me. I am just that irresistable :)

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Lorck:

 

I think your position is the following, but I want to be 100% sure I understand:

 

Outlaw (illegal) actions are the following:

Bagjumping, Scamming

 

PK is *never* outlaw, but sometimes dishonorable?

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It may, in some cases be dishonorable and therefore an outlaw act. But its not the nature of the pk.

For instance, if someone says "i will not attack you today", you enter pk and the guy attack, i would call this scam.

But then again, its not happen frequently and most pkers are not outlaws. Just pkers.

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It may, in some cases be dishonorable and therefore an outlaw act. But its not the nature of the pk.

For instance, if someone says "i will not attack you today", you enter pk and the guy attack, i would call this scam.

But then again, its not happen frequently and most pkers are not outlaws. Just pkers.

 

Okay... Not trying to trap you here, I just want to get a clear pciture in my head of your position:

 

You said:

 

Its just sad when people attack *only* people weaker.

But there are honorable pking, sometives even if you attack someone weak.

 

I would take this to say:

 

Generally, PK'ing weaker people is dishonorable. But even there, there are some times when PK'ing weaker people is honorable. [translator: for example a red tag not *terribly* weaker]

 

Would you consider that dishonorable PK'ing outlaw? Or would you have three categories like:

 

Honorable PK'ing

Dishonorable PK'ing, non-outlaw

Dishonorable PK'ing, outlaw

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I said it was "sad" not dishonorable. :)

Some people attack only persons way weaker than them, its sad because they dont get a decent fight since the other person have no chance of winning. But i dont think its dishonorable either.

Dishonorable pking is an outlaw subject, no question about it.

Edited by Lorck

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I already said to a riva member that what a hc member did to the riva guys was not honorable.

But its not the point of thread either. If you wanna discuss diplomacy with hc pm LadyReni.

Edited by Lorck

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I am not discussing diplomacy, I am not discussing anything other that the current in game definition of "dishonorable pk"

Many have stated examples of what is NOT dishonorable pk, so as a non pk-er, I would like to know, (as do many others, I'm sure) what "dishonorable pk" IS

If dishonorable PK is considered an outlaw act, which several have stated it is, then we need to know WHAT.

examples please?

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Attack friendly people, attack neutrals or friendlies while pvp, to say you will not attack then attack, call someone to 1vs1 and call a friend to help you, pull weapon when you was training pvp, keep the bag if you requested a friendly fight. There may be more, but those are what i can think at moment.

 

EDIT: Oh, attack the training partner of your guildie too.

Edited by Lorck

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[\quote] ha! honrable pking? I never saw honorable in pking. :P Pking is all about showing if you can beat this player or top another one yo been training hard to beat in pk areas so bad. its all about look right here > :P . There's no honor in pking! It's a matter of kill or be killed. Why should players have honor in pking? Some people pk to gain some respect and be noticed by people and so many reasons a person would pk. But for honor? I think not. In my opinion, it is to gain respect thats all i'm saying see this guy? he has respect lol > :P

Are you being serious? What's dishonourable about going to a PK map and fighting someone who wants to and is capable of fighting you? What's dishonourable about PKing scammers/bagjumpers? Of course it's kill or be killed but the honour comes from who, when and why you choose to kill.

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Are you being serious? What's dishonourable about going to a PK map and fighting someone who wants to and is capable of fighting you?

 

nothing

 

What's dishonourable about PKing scammers/bagjumpers?

 

nothing

 

Of course it's kill or be killed but the honour comes from who, when and why you choose to kill.

 

exactly the point of this discussion.

 

It may be honorable pk to engage someone near your stats that will give you a good fight/xp/maybe even items. No one disputes this.

It is not, in my definition, and many others, honorable to engage an obviously very weaker unarmed player that would give you little xp, next to no fight, and you know is incapable, and unable(due to guild rules) engage you in retribution.

 

That is cowardice, plain and simple.

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There is a warning when you enter a pk map.

The normal is to attack.

Pk map is and should be dungerous.

If the low level guy was standing like a fool in a pk map i dont see why he should not be attacked. The game would be far too easy otherwise.

And most (i dont said all) people who enter pk maps with low stats and barehanded are there to bagjump.

True newbs simply dont should be there. If they are, either they are trying to bagjump or they need to learn a lesson to not be there. Some people teach them the hard way.

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Why do you think theres a warning when you enter a pk map?

Its there to warn people that if you enter it, players may attack you. And usually most people who do enter it are either going to pk or pvp train. Although i dont hang around often on pk maps i leave all pvp-ers alone, its just impolite to attack someone who are training there.

The only thing which would be dishonorable pk-ing is attacking allies/pvp trainers. All the rest are fame game. If you go to a pk map, get ready for some action.

 

Also... why are there pk arenas then?

for people to train pvp without entering a pk map so you dont have to worry about pk-ers. Although some people dont care about honoring pvp training "unwritten ethics" and attack everyone just to get another notch in her/his counters so he can be the "best pker".

 

If you go into a pk map and are not pvp training, then you have almost no right to post in outlaws forum because nothing illegal has been done. Learn to live with it and train a lot more so you wont have to worry about pk-ers or just... dont go into a pk map.

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Also... why are there pk arenas then?

for people to train pvp without entering a pk map so you dont have to worry about pk-ers. Although some people dont care about honoring pvp training "unwritten ethics" and attack everyone just to get another notch in her/his counters so he can be the "best pker".

 

If you go into a pk map and are not pvp training, then you have almost no right to post in outlaws forum because nothing illegal has been done. Learn to live with it and train a lot more so you wont have to worry about pk-ers or just... dont go into a pk map.

 

The incident that caused all this ruckus was an unwarranted attack on two mid 30's a/d people PVP'ing in NC arena.

 

by all your definitions, I had a RIGHT to post in outlaws

 

so I would appreciate it if everyone would quit the hate/flames that I was wrong to post in outlaws

 

You have stated, by your own opinions, that I was correct in posting in that forum about that behavior.

Thank you and good night

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