Fixing some of the economy

[Kedan]

Yeah but summoning is a money sink, we need a few of them otherwise we get the money in game just going up and up untill ever newbie that enters the game has a million gc within a day (it does happen, if you was there before the big wipe you would have seen it) I agree summoning does need twicking with the fumuals and exp but i dont believe it should be a way to make money, thats what all the other skills can do.

 

If we can get everyone in game over level 20 oa making there money off of other people. This will mean you will have enough money to buy things from toher players and your items will sell, but instead of selling them to an NPC you will sell them to a player, as a mmo is ment to be a game where you are playing with other people not NPC's. The NPC's will just be there to make sure the price doesn't fall below a certain level. This level is the very bottum line, at which you make no profit selling it at that price. Because if you made a profit the people wouldn't bother selling to players if they wanted to level fast

[DemonCowboy]

first off, all harvestables should have little to no value. flowers should probably be (if bought by an NPC at all, flower shops could just sell) bought for <.01gc and the higher harvestables under 1gc ea. (varying according to reccomended harvesting lvl and/or nexus requirements.) people should not consider harvesting as a source of income. even a brand new player can get the stuff to make FEs when they start exploring the world, and untill then even when you first start the game it suggests selling rabbit furs.

 

I really think he has a good point here. Resources sell for way too much, and the resulting inflation means that as you increase the complexity and number of ingredients you lose more and more potential profits. Harvesting should be used in place of spending GC, not to generate it.

 

let's consider this:

 

If silver is at, let's say, 1gc and chrysanthemum is at 0.1 gc then HEs would probably be sold at 2.5gcs each without an NPC that sets the lower price barrier.

 

While lowering the value of harvestables could be a good idea (that still needs a complete redrawing of the economy imho) it needs also a price barrier for the finished products or it will just let the prices fall more.

a complete revamp of the economy is what it's going to take. there is no patch that is going to fix this. patchwork to the NPC prices are what lead to where we are now. it's going to take a complete and total remake of the economy. that's also part of y, when i first started posting about the economy in the dev suggestion threads, i offered any assistance i could give to help. because it's not going to be an easy thing to fix the economy

 

 

And for who said harvest gives too much money: No man, you are wrong. It is not harvest that gives too much money, the other skills that gives too few money, so people harv to survive.

i suggested it this way because ent asked for ONLY price, formula, exp change suggestions when the fact of the matter is that harvestables SHOULD NOT b bought by NPCs at all. it's half of the problem w/ the economy. y bother actually playing the game for the coins you need when u can just go to PL and harvest lupines? that's just what MANY people are doing. there should not be an easy outlet for harvestables, it should be left to the player market to decide values since the players need them, not NPCs. currently, that's where the first problem resulted from, that created the changes, that put the economy where it is today. harvesting and selling to NPCs is currently where i'm guessing >75% of the money comming into the game is comming from, and that should not be so.

 

for that matter, since this is off of the 411 that ent is looking for neway, harvesting shouldn't b a skill. the items are already needed to increase other skills so the reason to acquire them is already there. i think that inorganic nexus and knowledge for the higher items, (the way it basically is now,) would be sufficient to detail what harvestables one can gather, and gathering speeds should be decided mainly by the item, not any sort of experience or level.

 

I think that the main problem is in ratio of dropped items. Why make titanium longsword which require EFE? I will just buy it from fighter for 800gc. Economy is not something, which can be fixed in an hour. It's gentle and fragile mechanism which needs to be balanced by small steps. Decreasing an amount of item drops and increasing coins drop from monsters can help maybe, as fighters will need to buy gear for coins they find in drops. And as for adjusting formulas, IMHO drastic changes in formulae won't do any good, just small there and there (and either remove EFE from titanium longsword, or change the drop ratio) just to evolve it, no revolution

 

(and now I am seeking fire shlelter before the flame storm comes )

i agree w/ this totally, though unfortunately it's not what ent was asking for from what i've read.

 

drops of manufactured items just bring more of them into the game. fighters should b given enough coinage to buy the items they need from other players and NPCs, NOT be given these items in drops. exept maybe in certain circumstances for the realistic issue - like armed gobs, armored skellies, and the like that show to carry such items - even then, only in rare situations. because from a RP view, u just broke that armor most of the time to kill that armed skelly) drops could be harvestables or maybe even rare special items that could ONLY be gotten from fighting like furs and stuff that can't b harvested, maybe other items that could be used in manu and the like that only monsters can make/get whatever. this would keep the gc comming in for them so they can buy the stuff they want/need.

 

But what about the newcomers? They will suffer, because they will be weaker for much longer. There will be elite players with high levels from fast-making and they won't be able to cope them. Slowing the production without any countereffects is only crippling the economy more and more, because noone will want to do it anymore, everyone will only harvest and alcheming.

Well then we all start over, or newcomers are weaker longer. Either way, it has to be fixed and somebody's going to get hurt and pissed. *shrugs* People forget they are actually testers in a beta game.

i agree w/ this - i mean after the game is completely functioning i suspect we're all going to get wiped neway . after major changes, like a possible revamp of the economy, we probably should have to start over. to see the changes from the beginning, so as beta testers, we can see the full effect of the changes.

-------

EDIT:

Yeah but summoning is a money sink, we need a few of them otherwise we get the money in game just going up and up untill ever newbie that enters the game has a million gc within a day (it does happen, if you was there before the big wipe you would have seen it) I agree summoning does need twicking with the fumuals and exp but i dont believe it should be a way to make money, thats what all the other skills can do.

 

that's the problem, we don't need to create more money sinks we need to eliminate the easy harvesting money, that's where most of the problem is. as long as u can harvest free money all day long in PL , y would u do anything else for money? that's where the overflow of money that started the need for these sinks is comming from - summoning should be profitable, just like any other skill u have to actually work at. harvesting u don't have to work at so u shouln't get that much money from. ESPECIALLY not in unlimited quantities from NPCs leave it to the hard earned money of the players not the unlimited money from the NPCs.

Edited April 25, 2006 by DemonCowboy

[Atlantis]

Have Trik buy all manufacturable goods for the base cost of making the items (remember to figure in the cost of feasting pots)

This NEEDS to be added/fixed in my opinion. As it is now, you make a profit of a little over 1gc on making leather helms, but once you add feasting potions and fails it turns to 0 profit. Which is fine, but the only thing high level manuers can make for profit is these helms, for people like Lochness for example, the amount of exp to level up of leather pants etc. would be a HUGE loss.

 

In short: NPCs should buy for base cost on all items, not just one, or those specific items just get overproduced.

[Kedan]

I do like your idea demon,. It could work if you stop NPC's buying the raw metrials, but it might also mean the prices fall even lower. Because if the raw metrials have no base price(by base price i mean which you can sell them to NPC) they could fall to being worth nothing. which would lead to the price of all items above that being able to fall to the base price of them, or if items dont have a base cost for the item either, so lets take Diss rings, as you can't even sell them to a NPC they could fall to almost 0.

 

But this might not happen, if you can get the demand for the item around the same as the supply, which would mean the market would be keeping the price stable not the NPC. Problem is most items in game dont work that way due to the high supply and low demand

 

Edit

 

Atlantis we dont really need the NPC prices to cover your costs, we need to try to get people buying the items for the cost + abit extra for your work

Edited April 25, 2006 by Kedan

[The_Piper]

After reading all this, and still being a fan of more detailed manufacturing, i think, the idea with making swords in stages by adding every stage one item like essence or bar, rocks.

 

Taking an iron sword and add in stages some bars and essences to create an iron broad sword will get us rid of a mass of iron swords, even the monster drops.

 

Changing the whole manufacturing system into a stage based which reuses items, should get us rid of the many items flooding market.

 

Well, lets make leather pants:

 

Take one piece of leather and a thread, click mix and you have a leather pants stage 1. Repeat this 5 times and youre done.

 

We could reuse them when changing them to padded leather pants. Take one leather pants, add some more leather, thread and iron bars and youre done.

 

Reuse a leather torso to make plate mail, reuse a leather helm to make iron helms. And so on.

 

Piper

[DemonCowboy]

I do like your idea demon,. It could work if you stop NPC's buying the raw metrials, but it might also mean the prices fall even lower. Because if the raw metrials have no base price(by base price i mean which you can sell them to NPC) they could fall to being worth nothing. which would lead to the price of all items above that being able to fall to the base price of them, or if items dont have a base cost for the item either, so lets take Diss rings, as you can't even sell them to a NPC they could fall to almost 0.

 

But this might not happen, if you can get the demand for the item around the same as the supply, which would mean the market would be keeping the price stable not the NPC. Problem is most items in game dont work that way due to the high supply and low demand

it's only like that because harvesting is a skill and ppl will harvest to get the exp. that's y i said that harvesting SHOULD NOT b a skill then ppl will only bother to get these items to either sell to other players for money or to get them to actually make something out of them. there is absolutely no reason that harvesting should be a skill who cares who's the best at sitting doing nothing neway?!? that's about all harvesting as a skill accomplishes.

 

leaving the prices of harvestables to the players would at least give a true balance to work from. to see how bad harvesting is ruining the economy. right now w/ most harvesting efforts going to NPCs we can't even track how bad harvesting is ruining the economy, just any1 who's talked to other ppl in the game know that it is. how many ppl have u heard saying they were going to "the PL money tree"? as long as GC is that quickly and easily gotten, the economy will never get fixed.

 

besides, even w/ no floor if harvestables get too low in price no1 will bother gathering them to sell meaning there might be free bags here and there of 120 of an item, but i know, especially w/ essences just for myself, ( i can sell but i usually dont because i use them,) that i make them in the several hundreds. so either way that GC will not b introduced into the game making GCs worth more. then having the NPC prices on items that took work having a floor those prices will never get below a certain ammount. still keeping things in tact, WITHOUT the exess money entering the game from harvesting. that will ultimately force prices HIGHER because u have to make money to buy that next book. to advance further.

Edited April 25, 2006 by DemonCowboy

[Kedan]

Ok i like your idea demon, it sounds like the first thing that needs to be done to fix the maket, and then onto of that you have other ideas.

 

I would suggest we try this, we stop all NPC's buying all harvestable items (there will be ALOT of bitching, but it needs to be done). I see the first thing that happens is people becoming very poor, but as long as we adjust the formuals of all other skills so that they can make some money if they take the time to mix up the items (more money per raw metrial the higher the item) then it should be ok.

 

It's going to need alot of work though

[DemonCowboy]

i've always said that it will b ALOT of work to fix the economy, that there is no simple fix. and i don't think ppl will become too poor, they'll just have to start actually making items like FEs to start with. then the next step would be balancing those prices and formulas according to skill in them. to balance out the g/c between the lvls . new people should not have as much GC as ppl who have been playing awhile to EARN it.

 

yes, when it's all said and done there will probably be millionaires, but only the 1s that worked their tails off to get there. plus, they'll be VERY high lvl and have EARNED it. that's who should be getting the new expensive items neway, not any new player that can sit idle for long periods of time just doing 1 thing.

 

edit: typos

Edited April 25, 2006 by DemonCowboy

[Kedan]

I think there should still be a way for the millionaires to blow there money in a way that shows there millionaires, otherwise you get what happen before the big wipe where they just give away money to newbies. This could either be with a skill like summoning which the only real use for it is to show off, or to constally have new items coming into the game.

 

I personally would suggest a mixute of both, because if you just had new items coming in, it would mean alot of work just to keep the millionaires from not giving away there money to newbies and ruining the market. With having a skill to blow there money they can constenly waste money in it and compete with other millionaires to show who is richest

[flinto]

OK as entropy asked - a few explicit changes:

 

1. Decrease the cost of Gem Sanding Paper to 5gc (or have an additional crafting god quest allowing you to buy it for 5gc - I know its not a simple change to price or formula)

 

2. Change Gold and Silver Rings to use only 1 bar (gold or silver) - or produce 3 rings per current formulae

 

3. Have trik buy swords and shields and armours for base cost of raw materials (don't include food cost and loss adjustment)

 

4. Decrease the price of mercury to 6gc so that it is possible to make spirit ess for less than magic shop sells at (9gc)

 

5. Decrease the food requirement to make rings (by 1/3-1/2). We have already used a lot of food to polish the gem or personally I would like to see a much reduced amount of food requirement for the magic ring/med but it require an amount of mana (after all we are adding magic into the ring). Maybe then there would be a reason for crafters to buy COMs and more SRs would be used.

 

6. Reduce the Food requirement for making an FP to 5

 

7. Remove manufacturble (swords/armour/rings/pots) items from monster drops but compensate with larger gold hoards with a similar frequency to the manu items

 

8. Reduce tankels price to fix something to 1/4 of base cost

 

Hopefully with less changes a ring will become more costly to use in comparison to the teleport spell

 

Hope this helps

[sbarstow]

OK as entropy asked - a few explicit changes:

 

1. Decrease the cost of Gem Sanding Paper to 5gc (or have an additional crafting god quest allowing you to buy it for 5gc - I know its not a simple change to price or formula)

 

2. Change Gold and Silver Rings to use only 1 bar (gold or silver) - or produce 3 rings per current formulae

 

3. Have trik buy swords and shields and armours for base cost of raw materials (don't include food cost and loss adjustment)

 

4. Decrease the price of mercury to 6gc so that it is possible to make spirit ess for less than magic shop sells at (9gc)

 

5. Decrease the food requirement to make rings (by 1/3-1/2). We have already used a lot of food to polish the gem or personally I would like to see a much reduced amount of food requirement for the magic ring/med but it require an amount of mana (after all we are adding magic into the ring). Maybe then there would be a reason for crafters to buy COMs and more SRs would be used.

 

6. Reduce the Food requirement for making an FP to 5

 

7. Remove manufacturble (swords/armour/rings/pots) items from monster drops but compensate with larger gold hoards with a similar frequency to the manu items

 

8. Reduce tankels price to fix something to 1/4 of base cost

 

Hopefully with less changes a ring will become more costly to use in comparison to the teleport spell

 

Hope this helps

 

I'm sorry but this seems to be the exact OPPOSITE of what Entropy wants...He wants to get more items and gold out and you want to get more items and gold in...If anything prices and ingredients for items need to increase, not decrease.

 

I do agree that monster drops are a bit too frequent and should be toned down to get some stuff out of the economy.

[DemonCowboy]

I think there should still be a way for the millionaires to blow there money in a way that shows there millionaires, otherwise you get what happen before the big wipe where they just give away money to newbies. This could either be with a skill like summoning which the only real use for it is to show off, or to constally have new items coming into the game.

 

I personally would suggest a mixute of both, because if you just had new items coming in, it would mean alot of work just to keep the millionaires from not giving away there money to newbies and ruining the market. With having a skill to blow there money they can constenly waste money in it and compete with other millionaires to show who is richest

well i agree to a point, there should be ways that millionaires can show off but if it's in a skill, it should be a rather that's designed for the sole purpose to blow money. one that doesn't take a whole lot of effort to get good in, just time.

 

i saw fishing in the possible to do list. spend money on tackle, bait, just for the biggest fish that serves no real purpose other than something relatively minor so that they're not worth much, but can produce bragging rights at spending the money and the time to get the very best one. maybe higher lvls can produce chances at finding some sort of rare treasure or something giving even more to brag about.

 

plus when roja gets the time and ambition maybe she could create custom nobleman's clothes to don like armor that provide no real protections exept maybe from certain days like solar flares, or acid rain or whatnot. that they would buy just to have and walk around in. maybe even jewed weapons that have a VERY HIGH breakage rate so that they're kept just for show - i'd like to have an emerald serp in my hands for photos myself...lol

 

sorry, the future isn't what this thread is about, it's for the right now - my apologies ent.

Edited April 25, 2006 by DemonCowboy

[Gwain]

I do like your idea demon,. It could work if you stop NPC's buying the raw metrials, but it might also mean the prices fall even lower. Because if the raw metrials have no base price(by base price i mean which you can sell them to NPC) they could fall to being worth nothing. which would lead to the price of all items above that being able to fall to the base price of them, or if items dont have a base cost for the item either, so lets take Diss rings, as you can't even sell them to a NPC they could fall to almost 0.

 

I Guess that the NPCs buying the finished products for gold coins AND NOT buying the raw materials would push ppl to sell their harvestables to PC/produce something with their harvestables.

 

Still i think the things that are needed to help the economy are:

 

1)NPC that buys finished products at the raw material cost.

 

2)finished products should be combined to make the next product in the 'chain'

Example:

iron sword --> 10 iron bars, 1 steel bar, 1 FE - 100 XP

iron broad sword --> iron sword, 1 steel bar, 2 FE - 150 XP

Steel long sword --> iron broad sword, 2 steel bars, 4 FE - 200 XP

Two Edged Steel --> Steel long sword, 4 steel bars, 8 FE - 250 XP

Titanium Short --> Iron Sword, 2 Titanium Bars, 1 Leather, 2 FE - 125 XP

Titanium long sword --> Titanium Short, 4 Titanium Bars, 2 leather, 4FE - 250 XP

Titanium Serpent Sword --> Titanium Long, 8 Titanium Bars, 4 leather, Serpent Stone, EFE - 750XP

 

The same Procedure could be used on Armors (from leather to Plate, i guess). it's much harder to make something like that on Crafting, i guess.

 

3)top items should need let's say 1 hour to be made (like researching a book, with the option to stop the manufacturing and continue later to avoid boredom due to looking the screen doing nothing for that time).

 

Cheers.

[Enyo]

Stopping NPC from buying all harvestable won't fix the economy anymore than changing the formula's for iron broad swords or just about anything else. If you stop NPC from buying harvestables, then stop them from buying anything at all therefore creating an actual economy based on supply and demand and not on the need to level. This is more realistic. NPC buying harvestable is actually not bad because people are poor as it is yet continue to over produce in massive quantities. I like what Learned suggested to me in PM once and that is to place a cooldown on ALL tools in addition to magic... Of course I like my original suggestions in my first post in this thread.. scroll back to page one if you want to read. I also think it would be interesting to limit how much experience is gained per hour per skill the same as we do for harvestiing... I don't want to repeat everything that I've said previously. All I will say now is that changing formulas isn't going to rehabilitate the economy. That won't change much of anything at all because we need more balance in this game than it has. It lacks balance and changing the forumlas won't give it just like placing a cooldown on food didn't give it because players were able to bypass that cooldown by using feasting potions and can now mass produce on even a greater scale than before.. so then what? As Learner suggested, we place a cooldown on the actual tools. Its late here.. have fun trying to create formulas which will do nothing more than just waste more dev time.

[DemonCowboy]

I do like your idea demon,. It could work if you stop NPC's buying the raw metrials, but it might also mean the prices fall even lower. Because if the raw metrials have no base price(by base price i mean which you can sell them to NPC) they could fall to being worth nothing. which would lead to the price of all items above that being able to fall to the base price of them, or if items dont have a base cost for the item either, so lets take Diss rings, as you can't even sell them to a NPC they could fall to almost 0.

 

I Guess that the NPCs buying the finished products for gold coins AND NOT buying the raw materials would push ppl to sell their harvestables to PC/produce something with their harvestables.

 

Still i think the things that are needed to help the economy are:

 

1)NPC that buys finished products at the raw material cost.

 

2)finished products should be combined to make the next product in the 'chain'

Example:

iron sword --> 10 iron bars, 1 steel bar, 1 FE - 100 XP

iron broad sword --> iron sword, 1 steel bar, 2 FE - 150 XP

Steel long sword --> iron broad sword, 2 steel bars, 4 FE - 200 XP

Two Edged Steel --> Steel long sword, 4 steel bars, 8 FE - 250 XP

Titanium Short --> Iron Sword, 2 Titanium Bars, 1 Leather, 2 FE - 125 XP

Titanium long sword --> Titanium Short, 4 Titanium Bars, 2 leather, 4FE - 250 XP

Titanium Serpent Sword --> Titanium Long, 8 Titanium Bars, 4 leather, Serpent Stone, EFE - 750XP

 

The same Procedure could be used on Armors (from leather to Plate, i guess). it's much harder to make something like that on Crafting, i guess.

 

3)top items should need let's say 1 hour to be made (like researching a book, with the option to stop the manufacturing and continue later to avoid boredom due to looking the screen doing nothing for that time).

 

Cheers.

 

these will all help too. but i think the very first step is to get rid of the "free" money from harvestables. and those added in can only help imo

 

Edit:

Stopping NPC from buying all harvestable won't fix the economy anymore than changing the formula's for iron broad swords or just about anything else. If you stop NPC from buying harvestables, then stop them from buying anything at all therefore creating an actual economy based on supply and demand and not on the need to level. This is more realistic. NPC buying harvestable is actually not bad because people are poor as it is yet continue to over produce in massive quantities. I like what Learned suggested to me in PM once and that is to place a cooldown on ALL tools in addition to magic... Of course I like my original suggestions in my first post in this thread.. scroll back to page one if you want to read. I also think it would be interesting to limit how much experience is gained per hour per skill the same as we do for harvestiing... I don't want to repeat everything that I've said previously. All I will say now is that changing formulas isn't going to rehabilitate the economy. That won't change much of anything at all because we need more balance in this game than it has. It lacks balance and changing the forumlas won't give it just like placing a cooldown on food didn't give it because players were able to bypass that cooldown by using feasting potions and can now mass produce on even a greater scale than before.. so then what? As Learner suggested, we place a cooldown on the actual tools. Its late here.. have fun trying to create formulas which will do nothing more than just waste more dev time.

 

actually, it is the first step, because that's the need for all the other money sinks. after the harvesting money is gone, you can raise the prices of the NPCs for created items to cost. giving a place to dump them for the GC instead of just harvesting for the money. plus setting minimum prices on the made items an not anything on harvestables will keep the economy in tact. so ppl can still make money, they just have to work for it. besides that would just be the FIRST STEP.

 

i think u'r failing to realize that there is no quick and easy fix to the economy. it's going to be alot of work, any such way that u go about it. and doing it in steps is going to sting a bit, but otherwise it would take a massive fix all at 1ce that i believe has been daunting the devs from making the fixes needed. we have to look for the end result, not what it's going do do for or to us right now that's inconcequential. like i said i'll bet money that when the game is out of beta most of us will get wiped neway.

Edited April 25, 2006 by DemonCowboy

[Kedan]

I totally agree with you Tharazik, but the NPC buying them should be just on the raw metrial cost, that way people do sell to other people. If all that is implement you should see a rise in the prices, it will still need twicking onces its implemented, but it will set a base line to work with

 

So basicly to sum up all i think that needs to happen is first stop NPC's buying raw matrials (harvestable stuff) Then edit all skills that mix items so they need the lower of the items in order to make the higher one, then add in the stages, so you have to mix the prevous items with 1 item at a time. (this can work for all skills, even summoning when the animal stones are added in) ofcourse it will be harder to reuse old items in most skills, but i think it can be worked with. Then adjust the buy prices of the NPC's to match the new costs of production (they will need to cost more as they use the previous item) and then adjust the exp to match.

 

Then onces ingame you can tweak the fumaulers and exp slightly to make them fair

Edited April 25, 2006 by Kedan

[skodarap]

The same Procedure could be used on Armors (from leather to Plate, i guess). it's much harder to make something like that on Crafting, i guess.

 

As far as i know crafting already has something like that... i mean - aren't silver/gold rings and medallions a half product?

[flinto]

OK as entropy asked - a few explicit changes:

 

1. Decrease the cost of Gem Sanding Paper to 5gc (or have an additional crafting god quest allowing you to buy it for 5gc - I know its not a simple change to price or formula)

 

2. Change Gold and Silver Rings to use only 1 bar (gold or silver) - or produce 3 rings per current formulae

 

3. Have trik buy swords and shields and armours for base cost of raw materials (don't include food cost and loss adjustment)

 

4. Decrease the price of mercury to 6gc so that it is possible to make spirit ess for less than magic shop sells at (9gc)

 

5. Decrease the food requirement to make rings (by 1/3-1/2). We have already used a lot of food to polish the gem or personally I would like to see a much reduced amount of food requirement for the magic ring/med but it require an amount of mana (after all we are adding magic into the ring). Maybe then there would be a reason for crafters to buy COMs and more SRs would be used.

 

6. Reduce the Food requirement for making an FP to 5

 

7. Remove manufacturble (swords/armour/rings/pots) items from monster drops but compensate with larger gold hoards with a similar frequency to the manu items

 

8. Reduce tankels price to fix something to 1/4 of base cost

 

Hopefully with less changes a ring will become more costly to use in comparison to the teleport spell

 

Hope this helps

 

I'm sorry but this seems to be the exact OPPOSITE of what Entropy wants...He wants to get more items and gold out and you want to get more items and gold in...If anything prices and ingredients for items need to increase, not decrease.

 

I do agree that monster drops are a bit too frequent and should be toned down to get some stuff out of the economy.

 

 

Sorry I think you need to go back and re-read Entropy's post. Nowhere has he said he wants to get items and money out of the economy

 

So please post suggestions on what should change in order to improve the game.

We are talking only about price changes, formulas changes, and exp changes (for produced items and summoning).

 

I think this will improve the game for crafters and make the rest of you want to buy rings (or be able afford to). The post is about (as I see it) kick starting the economy not draining it further.

[Gwain]

Stopping NPC from buying all harvestable won't fix the economy anymore than changing the formula's for iron broad swords or just about anything else.

 

[...]

 

I consider the idea of giving a cooldown time on manufacturing/jewelry tools a good idea.

 

consider it as 4) on things to do on my post.

 

cheers.

Edited April 25, 2006 by Tharazik

[Longsh0t]

I've seen some cool suggestions

 

The cooldown on tools and the different 'stages' for manufacturable items are pretty cool and I personally think these could be used to stop the mass production and make the numbers produced more reasonable.

 

I wonder what the effects will be of stopping the NPCs to buy harvestable resources...

 

 

All I will say now is that changing formulas isn't going to rehabilitate the economy.

You are wrong. People need incentives to do things. If you change the formulas in a way that higher level items give more benefits, people make those items over the lower leveled ones. They also start buying lower-leveled items from the market, since their time is worth more when they spend it on those high level items instead of the lower-level ones.

Consequence: a very busy market channel

[Thordin]

Well, I don't envy Entropy reading this long thread

 

If you would like the tool cooldown, you have to adjust XP given to maintain the XP per hour ratio, otherwise, leveling will get only harder, and people would not get entertained. I am not saying "make it easy", I am saying "don't make it harder to level up".

[Enyo]

Stopping NPC from buying all harvestable won't fix the economy anymore than changing the formula's for iron broad swords or just about anything else.

 

[...]

 

Its late here.. have fun trying to create formulas which will do nothing more than just waste more dev time.

 

While the tone that you used in your post is kinda rude (sorry to say that, but a lil more gentleness wouldn't have hurt. Ent Asked for everyones opinions or he would have posted a PM to whom he wanted to listen. If he asked us for our ideas/suggestions how can we waste his time trying to make them? it's his job to choose what is good/bad to listen. not mine, not yours.) i consider the idea of giving a cooldown time on manufacturing/jewelry tools a great idea.

 

consider it as 4) on things to do on my post.

 

cheers.

 

I apologize if what I said sounded rude. I didn't intend it that way. I wasn't referring to the opinions as a waste of dev time but rather if these ideas were actually to be implimented because in my personal opinion changing formulas won't be the aspirin everyone is seeking...Actually he invited suggestions and thats what everyone is doing. Some disagree with each other and simply voice that opinion. Please forgive me if what I said offended you.

 

 

Well, I don't envy Entropy reading this long thread

 

If you would like the tool cooldown, you have to adjust XP given to maintain the XP per hour ratio, otherwise, leveling will get only harder, and people would not get entertained. I am not saying "make it easy", I am saying "don't make it harder to level up".

It should be harder. Its entirely too easy as it is. Thats the whole point isn't it? Maybe instead of having higher and higher levels there should be more challenging things to do such as level restrictive maps to explore, harder quests, etc etc.. This game is still very much beta and still very much evolving. So, who knows which direction it shall go. Time will only tell.

 

Now.. I bid you all goodnight.

Edited April 25, 2006 by Savyl

[sbarstow]

OK as entropy asked - a few explicit changes:

 

1. Decrease the cost of Gem Sanding Paper to 5gc (or have an additional crafting god quest allowing you to buy it for 5gc - I know its not a simple change to price or formula)

 

2. Change Gold and Silver Rings to use only 1 bar (gold or silver) - or produce 3 rings per current formulae

 

3. Have trik buy swords and shields and armours for base cost of raw materials (don't include food cost and loss adjustment)

 

4. Decrease the price of mercury to 6gc so that it is possible to make spirit ess for less than magic shop sells at (9gc)

 

5. Decrease the food requirement to make rings (by 1/3-1/2). We have already used a lot of food to polish the gem or personally I would like to see a much reduced amount of food requirement for the magic ring/med but it require an amount of mana (after all we are adding magic into the ring). Maybe then there would be a reason for crafters to buy COMs and more SRs would be used.

 

6. Reduce the Food requirement for making an FP to 5

 

7. Remove manufacturble (swords/armour/rings/pots) items from monster drops but compensate with larger gold hoards with a similar frequency to the manu items

 

8. Reduce tankels price to fix something to 1/4 of base cost

 

Hopefully with less changes a ring will become more costly to use in comparison to the teleport spell

 

Hope this helps

 

I'm sorry but this seems to be the exact OPPOSITE of what Entropy wants...He wants to get more items and gold out and you want to get more items and gold in...If anything prices and ingredients for items need to increase, not decrease.

 

I do agree that monster drops are a bit too frequent and should be toned down to get some stuff out of the economy.

 

 

Sorry I think you need to go back and re-read Entropy's post. Nowhere has he said he wants to get items and money out of the economy

 

So please post suggestions on what should change in order to improve the game.

We are talking only about price changes, formulas changes, and exp changes (for produced items and summoning).

 

I think this will improve the game for crafters and make the rest of you want to buy rings (or be able afford to). The post is about (as I see it) kick starting the economy not draining it further.

 

I don't see how introducing more items by making the ingredients cheaper will kickstart the economy, as a matter of fact I see it doing just the opposite. Supply and Demand, it has been said before, you have more items people are less willing to buy them.

[DemonCowboy]

 

 

I apologize if what I said sounded rude. I didn't intend it that way. I wasn't referring to the opinions as a waste of dev time but rather if these ideas were actually to be implimented because in my personal opinion changing formulas won't be the aspirin everyone is seeking...Actually he invite suggestions and thats what everyone is doing. Some disagree with each other and simply voice that opinion. Please forgive me if what I said offended you. Now.. I bid you all goodnight.

actually, my suggestions i've stated that there is no quick-fix. it's going to b alot of work, for the devs to create, and for the players to adjust. there is no 1 simple solution that will fix all. there were mistakes made in the design of the economy. not because of anything lacking on the dev's efforts, but just because of the ppl factor. there was no way the devs could anticipate how players would behave. but i think alot of the suggestions here done in steps will fix the situation, judging solely on current behavior. all i'm saying now is that there is no single fool-proof solution, nor can it b done all at 1ce, but will have to b done in stages.

[Dent]

I honestly think that DemonCowboy is on to something here. By removing the massive influx of money from selling bulk items to NPC's you increase the value of everything. This makes it worthwhile to make low level things to sell, and the market demand will set the prices very quickly.

 

I would caution against using a cooldown on the tools. While it would definately limit mass production, it is a hard limit that removes choice. If, instead, you went with an exp cap, like the one used on harvesting, it would allow someone to try to make a large amount of things to use, to sell and for the enriched/modifyable items, only without the added incentive of level grinding.

 

Imagine trying to make bone powder with a tool cooldown. Bad idea.

 

Third, reduce the item drops from monsters drastically and substitute a small increase in money drops.

 

These would be the first three stages I would implement, while immediately looking into the idea of progressive manufacturing for sometime down the road.

 

What you will find is a very tentative and quiet market channel for the first few days / week. Then the folks who are too busy to harvest on their own would start making bids. Within a very short time, people will find a happy medium for both harvestable items and finished goods. This works. There are dozens of examples of this working IRL. What doesn't and has never worked is a central market authority and control.

 

What we have in EL right now is the NPC market and the several layers of player's black market. It reminds me of my trips accross the Iron Curtain 15 years ago.