Fixing some of the economy

[ville-v]

Maybe npc price for tit chain you get after high rank at Aluwen should be lowered, since it is now 38k and you could buy 9 from players for that price. It is meant to sell cheap, so maybe 3.8k? Or 5k?

[Enyo]

I still say the biggest problem is overproduction because everyone wants to level as fast as they possibly can. I think that was part of the purpose of the cooldown. Speaking of the cooldown, Learner suggested that perhaps there needs to be a cooldown on tools and reduced on food or instead of food. I didn't agree with him at first but now after thinking about it more I do agree with Learner. We also need a cooldown on all tools..even on magic. Leveling and productions needs to slow down a bit. Don't forget this is a MMO game. The game tries to make things as realistic as possible within a fantasy/medieval realm. Only machines could mass produce the way the players on this game do and even then not with such perfection.

[Thordin]

But what about the newcomers? They will suffer, because they will be weaker for much longer. There will be elite players with high levels from fast-making and they won't be able to cope them. Slowing the production without any countereffects is only crippling the economy more and more, because noone will want to do it anymore, everyone will only harvest and alcheming.

[ville-v]

No, harvesting, fighting and magic

[Aislinn]

But what about the newcomers? They will suffer, because they will be weaker for much longer. There will be elite players with high levels from fast-making and they won't be able to cope them. Slowing the production without any countereffects is only crippling the economy more and more, because noone will want to do it anymore, everyone will only harvest and alcheming.

Well then we all start over, or newcomers are weaker longer. Either way, it has to be fixed and somebody's going to get hurt and pissed. *shrugs* People forget they are actually testers in a beta game.

[Thordin]

But what about the newcomers? They will suffer, because they will be weaker for much longer. There will be elite players with high levels from fast-making and they won't be able to cope them. Slowing the production without any countereffects is only crippling the economy more and more, because noone will want to do it anymore, everyone will only harvest and alcheming.

Well then we all start over, or newcomers are weaker longer. Either way, it has to be fixed and somebody's going to get hurt and pissed. *shrugs* People forget they are actually testers in a beta game.

 

I agree, sometimes, I just forget that.

 

I just feel sorry for the newcomers...

[RedHawkXIII]

And for who said harvest gives too much money: No man, you are wrong. It is not harvest that gives too much money, the other skills that gives too few money, so people harv to survive.

 

This is true--Harvestables at the cheapest should be the floor for ALL items that involve making them, so people would bother to make the items instead of selling them right off. So a good "formula" to go by would probably be (total cost of resources) + (3% of total cost of resources) = NPC price. That is, if there is an NPC for everything. (Remember, crafting has no NPC to floor prices). The 3% would make a decent profit from the cost of the harvest materials, and demand for resources would probably skyrocket. The manufacturers would get the cycle going by pumping Gc into the Player market, putting more money in the harvesters pockets.

 

You probably would want to avoid affect the breakage of weapons and armors and the monster drops, since the fighters aren't complaining (the drawbacks in fighting are something one comes to deal with). Naturally speaking, armors and weapons aren't really supposed to have a huge demand, since they are sort of like furniture--meant to last, so low demand. High demand items like Essences come and go like the wind, so naturally high demand, fair price for your work. However, the manufacturing and crafting have a terrible work:profit ratio.

 

If you are looking for a quick fix, fix Trik buying to buy items from players at (total cost of resources) + (3% of total cost of resources) = NPC price, and have a crafting skill NPC (maybe christopher? or a new person) that follows the same formula.

 

There really is no quick fix to an economy, IMO.

[ville-v]

Crafting skill npc? Haven't you looked to pl magic shop?

[RedHawkXIII]

Crafting skill npc? Haven't you looked to pl magic shop?

 

He doesn't buy anything from players, no? I meant a Crafting skill version of Trik, is all.

Edited April 25, 2006 by RedHawkXIII

[Thordin]

(total cost of resources) + (3% of total cost of resources) = NPC price

 

Problem is with leather, as it can be bought from shop for 10gc, but if you complete certain quest, you have it much cheaper. Same goes with wine...

So how would you make those prices fit?

[Dunian]

I think this may have been suggested before in another thread, but what if players stop getting experience for making things below their level? This would be a little more realistic (You don't get smith experience for leatherwork; and after you make so many leather helms, there isn't that much more to learn from them).

 

So if a player is making leather helms, and he's at the reccomended level (10), He gets the leather helm + ~35 manufacture exp.

Once he advances to level 11, he only gets ~30 exp per helm

At 12 he gets ~25. By 17 he no longer gets any experience from making leather helms.

 

Of course the percentages would have to be tweaked, otherwise there'd be 'gaps' where it'd be hard to make enough exp to advance to a level where you could make the next item at a reasonable fail-rate. Also, after a long time, it'd be impossible to get manu exp until more advanced items are added. But theres a chance that this'd cut down on the mass production.

[ville-v]

What if it would decrease just 1 exp/level like in a/d? The the manufacturer would still get more exp than 1+rationality+god percents until he hits level 45. It is too evil to give nothing for manufacturer that needs some leather helms but has level 17.

Edited April 25, 2006 by ville-v

[duran]

the staged weapons should not be that hard to make i think.

 

take existing pictures. turn them gray, and then apply an effect similar to the cooldown, but so that each stage have a bigger image of the item showing. the final one will be the only version thats in color.

 

this would even take care of scammers as they cant just try to sell a partialy fabricated item as the real thing. hmm, one issue tho, those bars that have a very gray color as it is...

 

hmm, so maybe a red background color that becomes more and more black as the item is finished? bah, i give up...

 

still, its an interesting idea, atleast if each stage gives as much xp as the creation of a single item currently gives. that way people will be making as low as 1/20 of the number of items that they made before. and while its will not be that bad to loose a stage 1 item to a critical failure, its realy going to pain when it happen on the last stage.

 

hmm, i worry that a whole lot of people will be making only stage 1's tho to train with minimal loss/expenses. but if only finished stuff can be cashed in?

[LochnessLobster]

I have long thought about what the possible solution/s might be to the chronic deflation which continues to spiral in the EL economy. I played many angles in my head and only see one which I believe might work. I think that NPC's need to buy basically every craftable/manufaturable etc item in the game. If the npc's bought these items at least for the cost of the ingrediants it would in give an outlet for excesses of these items. Trik currently buys iron helms for 50 gc. The cost to make an iron helm is 152. Players will stop making iron helms altogether long before they sell on the market for 50 gc so trik buying iron helms for 50 gc does not help control overproduction. I for one have given up on manufacturing. I have not given up because I don't like doing it I have given up because there is nearly no demand for ANY items. I have been the leading manufacturer for the last year and no players can effectively level in manu making metal items. They are far too resource dependent and you have no outlet for them after making them but people continue to try. They soon get desparate to sell and start dropping their prices in desperation causing more downward pull on pricing.

I think the only workable solution to be the npc's. The prices the npc's pay for items could be tweaked for effect much like the FED does with the interest rate in the US economy. This is just my oppinion for what it is worth.

[Mr.Mind]

I have long thought about what the possible solution/s might be to the chronic deflation which continues to spiral in the EL economy. I played many angles in my head and only see one which I believe might work. I think that NPC's need to buy basically every craftable/manufaturable etc item in the game. If the npc's bought these items at least for the cost of the ingrediants it would in give an outlet for excesses of these items. Trik currently buys iron helms for 50 gc. The cost to make an iron helm is 152. Players will stop making iron helms altogether long before they sell on the market for 50 gc so trik buying iron helms for 50 gc does not help control overproduction. I for one have given up on manufacturing. I have not given up because I don't like doing it I have given up because there is nearly no demand for ANY items. I have been the leading manufacturer for the last year and no players can effectively level in manu making metal items. They are far too resource dependent and you have no outlet for them after making them but people continue to try. They soon get desparate to sell and start dropping their prices in desperation causing more downward pull on pricing.

I think the only workable solution to be the npc's. The prices the npc's pay for items could be tweaked for effect much like the FED does with the interest rate in the US economy. This is just my oppinion for what it is worth.

It is teasing how the easiest solution to implement is the most effective. Having trik buy end products for a profit would solve all deflation.

[Thordin]

Thumbs up. Give it a try...

[Kedan]

It would still leave people mass leveling on the items selling them to the NPC and bring more and more money into the game, we need to try to get atleast 50% of the items created in game sold on to other players, and the only way i can see this happening is either making items need to be bought more (which wouldn't be good for things like armour and weapons as there ment to last) or slowing down people making them. Hence my idea of stages. This means people would get alot more exp for one item but it would take longer.

 

And to reply to the final bit duran posted, yeah i think only the final produced produced should be able to be sold to a NPC. Which should mean they would mix it all the way to the finished produced themselfs, or maybe you would get people selling them on the market. But it should mean that people mix it up to the final product.

 

Also the NPC buying prices need to be the same price as what the NPC's would buy the raw metrials for, that way no extra money is coming into the game than would have, if anything it slows down the money coming in, but it still gives each item the chance to be use to train on (As long as the exp and the fomuals of each items is worked out. So you would make it the rarer you want the item the harder/pricyer/more ingedents that item needs, and then you would then work out the exp, i would suggest you do this from the cost of raw metrials, the easyer way to do it would to give 1exp for ever 1gc of the buy price of the raw matrials needed)

Edited April 25, 2006 by Kedan

[Mundaus]

Stating the obvious:

(1) Supply > Demand even with rock bottom prices (well below production cost), because

(2) People want the exp from mass production.

(3) Some items are not produced because market is flooded with monster drops.

 

Obvious solutions:

(1, 2) Harvesting-style exp caps: NO incentive to mass produce unless you make profit. High-level characters will stick to producing high-level items to maximise their exp/hour. Of course, this would necessitate an increase in the exp given per item.

(3) Instead of monsters dropping swords and weapons, why not drop bars? Also, increasing the amount of gold in monster drops should provide some (needed) inflation.

 

Decreasing an amount of item drops and increasing coins drop from monsters can help maybe, as fighters will need to buy gear for coins they find in drops.

 

Spot on.

 

I think this may have been suggested before in another thread, but what if players stop getting experience for making things below their level? This would be a little more realistic (You don't get smith experience for leatherwork; and after you make so many leather helms, there isn't that much more to learn from them).

 

What if it would decrease just 1 exp/level like in a/d? The the manufacturer would still get more exp than 1+rationality+god percents until he hits level 45. It is too evil to give nothing for manufacturer that needs some leather helms but has level 17.

 

I think this is worth a try.

[Guest Lucjusz]

Hi

 

I have idea (utilization idea )

 

1)When someone cast spell he should have a chance to create magic dust.

The chane to create magic dust should depends from how many mana and ess (or cost of ess) the spell he cast requires.

 

2)When someone summon a animal or monster he have a chance to create life dust.

The chance to create life dust should depends from many mana and items he use to summon.

 

3)Using crafting ability EL player can creat utilization ring (or key)

 

small utilization ring: 3 magic dust, 3 life dust, 1 ring, 1 magic ess

medium utilization ring: 7 magic dust, 7 life dust, 1 ring, 2 magic ess

big utilization ring: 12 magic dust, 12 life dust, 1 ring, 3 magic ess

huge utilization ring: 20 magic dust, 20 life dust, 1 ring, 5 magic ess,(1 serpent stone)

 

4)EL pleyers can use this ring to utilization, for example:

 

Using small key I be able to utilization max 50 item (they must be the same).

I make bag with 50 iron sword and in inventory I use this ring, bad and ring disappears

and in inventory appears gold [for example 50x2x(Trik price for iron sword) ]

 

What do you think about that?

 

[EDIT] One more

 

NCP can sell this rings, magic and life dust for n gc and buy them for n-5 gc..

In this way on market the price for them will be stable.

Edited April 25, 2006 by Lucjusz

[Longsh0t]

(...) I think that NPC's need to buy basically every craftable/manufaturable etc item in the game. If the npc's bought these items at least for the cost of the ingrediants it would in give an outlet for excesses of these items. (...)

 

I think the only workable solution to be the npc's. The prices the npc's pay for items could be tweaked for effect much like the FED does with the interest rate in the US economy. This is just my oppinion for what it is worth.

(...)

It is teasing how the easiest solution to implement is the most effective. Having trik buy end products for a profit would solve all deflation.

This may sound simple, but it isn't. By just tweaking the NPC prices you will not get there! I think that if you do that, without looking at the other factors like production time, components required and the time to get those, you will get a situation like 'before the big crash'.

 

Setting correct NPC prices is part of the solution. What also needs to be looked at, is the components for each item (swords, summons, potions, etc).

 

Time is everything. You need to look at how long it takes to make a sword/potion/summon/ring/etc, and then reward it accordingly. Also the creation of higher level items, should be rewarded more than lower level items.

 

 

The mass production is another thing to solve. This can be done using the 'stages' Kedan suggested, or maybe by increasing the time it takes to get the resources/ produce the item. BUT again, if you do this keep in mind that the rewards should also increase.

Edited April 25, 2006 by Longsh0t

[Kedan]

Lucjusz i think we need to work on the items we have in-game before adding new onces. We need to try to set fair prices, exp, and fumuals for every item in-game. And then make a way that keep the supply and demand of each item around the same meaning the prices will be fairly stable. Only after we have that will adding new items be a good idea

[LadyWolf]

Have Trik buy all manufacturable goods for the base cost of making the items (remember to figure in the cost of feasting pots)

 

Have the PL magic shop buy all craftable items for the base cost of making the items.

 

Have Mira buy all potions for the base cost of making the items.

 

Have the other magic shops but essences for the base cost of making them

 

To stop over production of certain items, raise the level of XP given per item.

 

The way things are now, there are all these new shiny toys, but it's almost impossile to raise the money for them unless all you do is sit and harvest ores or flowers all day.

 

Another suggestion, someone pointed out earlier, summoning supplies. In the 15 months that I have played, I have seen wolf furs go from 4gc to 10-12 gcs on the market. Meat from 3 gc to 6-8 gcs. Thus making summoning, a skill that is a very big money drain, even more so. The fur seller, Henrick in Tirnwood sells wolf furs for 15 gcs each. If you lower his selling price to say 8-10 gc's, then that is going to force the price back down on the market from players, thus eleviating some of the high cost of summoning. Same thing goes for meat, if you make Henrick sell meat for say 6gc, then the market price will go backdown on it. Doing this would make a very unprofitable skill, not be so bad.

[Kedan]

ladywolf i like, if buy the base cost you mean the cost the NPC's would have given for all the raw metrials needed to make the item. But about raise the XP, this will just make it easyer to level, not stop people from mass producing, we need to slow down have fast they can make the item, and then to compensate give them more exp.

 

Also about summoning, I think that skill is one of the skills that is ok. At this time it is a money drain, which is a good thing for the game, because it gives players a way to show how rich there are by how high there summoning level is, if we make the items cheaper it will just mean players can buy more, raise there levels, not actually helping the market

[Vormavius]

Like entropy said, lets do that step by step.

 

There are good suggestions from bkc56, Mundaus and Ladywolf.

We don't want to be rich or millionaire, just have fun and survive on our own skills, without harving for a day to play other day. Here we have a phrase: "Sell the lunch to buy the dinner". This is the point.

 

And summoning isn't ok. How many serious summoners we have in the game? 10? 20?

Wonder why.

[Thordin]

Summoning would have purpose, if the animals give you some summoning experience for their fighting with other animals/players.