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Fixing some of the economy

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While talking with Blodoks he came up with another interesting tought:

 

Why should manufacturers (i talk about manufacturers cos i tell around that im a manufacturer *coughs*buy from meee*stops coughing*) be able to do everything at level 40? shouldn't also we raise the manufacturing levels required to do some items?

 

 

I think he is right on that topic which, even if not the central point of this discussion is also a factor to take care of.

 

 

Cheers.

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Entropy:

 

Im not sure how much of this you will get to read with the flood of ideas, but here is an econmics persepctive fom an engineer;

 

1. The market is driven by supply and demand.

2. The market is saturated for almost every item.

3. Leveling is driven by the production of items, the more

items, the more XPs, the more levels.

4. Player interaction sparked by the market is a good thing.

 

I suggest the following fixes:

 

1. Increase manu/craft times:

a -> leather boots, 10 mins

b -> iron broad, 1 hour

c -> steel chain 2.5 hours

etc.

2. Increase manu/craft xps:

a -> leather boots, 350 XPs

b -> iron broad, 2500 XPs

c -> steel chain, 8000 XPs

3. When an item is started, the player can do

other things, including fighting, etc, but the

manutime only accumulates when there is food and

the player is logged on. This also gets rid of

large food gulp at the start of a manu/crafting

run.

4. As a player levels, more manu/craft slots become

available, say one slot per 15 levels.

 

This makes sense if you think of the character as representing

a group/business/knight. When the character is low level,

the character has no apprentices/journymen, as the character

rises, more helpers are brought in.

 

I don't know if the balance is correct between manu time/xps,

but with some patient tweaking, it will definately help reduce the

number of items on the market, bringing their values up. Once

the proper balances are found, the market prices will steady at

a workable value.

 

I do not think that Alchemy items need price adjustments at

this time.

 

One thing to realize is the following: In real life, the people

who make money are the people who turn raw materials into

usable products. This includes the mining, smelting, and

manufacturing process. In EL the folks making the money

right now are the harvesters, and to a lesser extent the

alchemists.

 

Thanks for focusing on this issue, it will definately increase the

playability of an already great game.

 

RJ

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I apologize if what I said sounded rude. I didn't intend it that way. I wasn't referring to the opinions as a waste of dev time but rather if these ideas were actually to be implimented because in my personal opinion changing formulas won't be the aspirin everyone is seeking...Actually he invited suggestions and thats what everyone is doing. Some disagree with each other and simply voice that opinion. Please forgive me if what I said offended you.

 

Np Savyl. i am sure you didn't meant to be rude and it's nice to look this answer from you, sorry if I could have looked angry at you, tho. :)

 

It should be harder. Its entirely too easy as it is. Thats the whole point isn't it? Maybe instead of having higher and higher levels there should be more challenging things to do such as level restrictive maps to explore, harder quests, etc etc..

 

those proposals are nice but would them stop the overproduction? probably not. But they would give a reason to reach high levels in the skills.

 

This game is still very much beta and still very much evolving. So, who knows which direction it shall go. Time will only tell.

 

Cheers.

Edited by Tharazik

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Yeah but summoning is a money sink, we need a few of them otherwise we get the money in game just going up and up untill ever newbie that enters the game has a million gc within a day (it does happen, if you was there before the big wipe you would have seen it) I agree summoning does need twicking with the fumuals and exp but i dont believe it should be a way to make money, thats what all the other skills can do.

 

If we can get everyone in game over level 20 oa making there money off of other people. This will mean you will have enough money to buy things from toher players and your items will sell, but instead of selling them to an NPC you will sell them to a player, as a mmo is ment to be a game where you are playing with other people not NPC's. The NPC's will just be there to make sure the price doesn't fall below a certain level. This level is the very bottum line, at which you make no profit selling it at that price. Because if you made a profit the people wouldn't bother selling to players if they wanted to level fast

 

If you wish to say summoning is a money sink, then we could say the same for all skills and leave things as they are: Most everyone broke and bitching about things.

 

I am a top 10 summoner that has had to give up summoning, because I refuse to go sit in the mines for weeks on end just to pay over inflated prices for items I need to summon with. Yes I have a guild, but I refuse to have them help me raise my ONE level while they neglect their skills.

 

As far as my first suggestion, yes I meant the NPC's buy all items for the combined cost of the individual ingredients it took to make the item.

 

Raising the XP, along with bringing back the increased manu times WILL kill the need to mass produce many items. Instead of getting 46 xp per leather helm, which it takes about 500 leather helms for a level when you are between 20-30, triple that xp, so that it takes 1/3 of the amount of helms, but also increase the make time. It will take you longer to make those helms, but you won't have to make so many to get a level.

 

Yea people are gonna bitch about asking to raise the manu times, but you all have to admit, since the cooldown, and using feasting pots, everything is pretty much faster than it used to be, which has made it even easier to mass produce.

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I also think it would be interesting to limit how much experience is gained per hour per skill the same as we do for harvestiing

I would caution against using a cooldown on the tools. While it would definately limit mass production, it is a hard limit that removes choice. If, instead, you went with an exp cap, like the one used on harvesting, it would allow someone to try to make a large amount of things to use, to sell and for the enriched/modifyable items, only without the added incentive of level grinding.

Is anyone opposed to an exp cap for manu like the one used in harvesting? It seems to have a lot of advantages.

 

Third, reduce the item drops from monsters drastically and substitute a small increase in money drops.

Decreasing an amount of item drops and increasing coins drop from monsters can help maybe, as fighters will need to buy gear for coins they find in drops.

Is anyone opposed to reducing the number of manu product drops, and replacing them with bars or gc?

 

first off, all harvestables should have little to no value. flowers should probably be (if bought by an NPC at all, flower shops could just sell) bought for <.01gc and the higher harvestables under 1gc ea. (varying according to reccomended harvesting lvl and/or nexus requirements.) people should not consider harvesting as a source of income. even a brand new player can get the stuff to make FEs when they start exploring the world, and untill then even when you first start the game it suggests selling rabbit furs.

This might not be popular, but in fact the artificially high prices for flowers have a knock-on effect for other items too. Why worry about selling items at a loss when you can make the money back in 5mins at the PL money tree? 0.01gc might be a little too low, something around 0.05-0.1gc may be fairer. A serious fix to the economy would end the spectacle of high level players sitting around picking flowers all day.

 

If the distortions - mass production for levelling, excessive drops of manu products, gold growing on lupine bushes - are removed then supply/demand laws will take over and the economy will fix itself. Right?

 

Or we can increase NPCs buying prices to make mass production easier and discourage player-player interaction :)

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This might not be popular, but in fact the artificially high prices for flowers have a knock-on effect for other items too. Why worry about selling items at a loss when you can make the money back in 5mins at the PL money tree? 0.01gc might be a little too low, something around 0.05-0.1gc may be fairer. A serious fix to the economy would end the spectacle of high level players sitting around picking flowers all day.

 

If the distortions - mass production for levelling, excessive drops of manu products, gold growing on lupine bushes - are removed then supply/demand laws will take over and the economy will fix itself. Right?

 

Or we can increase NPCs buying prices to make mass production easier and discourage player-player interaction :)

First of all, we actually do NEED those flower bushes and the 5 minutes that you are talking about is more like several hours and thats to buy some basic items.. essence, potions or other items to make those things such as feasting potions because some of us .. if not most of us like me have NO gold in storage. :P

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First of all, we actually do NEED those flower bushes and the 5 minutes that you are talking about is more like several hours and thats to buy some basic items..

I'm a flower junkie too, but I just don't see why this should be one of the most profitable activities in the game.

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Any thoughts on this Ent?

 

I hope that we are not just spinning our wheels here and pissing you off. There are some really good ideas here, both ones that I agree with and ones that I think are commie pinko claptrap. I mean misguided. errm...:)

 

Because the last page or so has been mostly re-iteration of the same ideas, I propose a two-day moratorium in this thread. On Friday, revisit it with a fresh perspective and see if there are any new thoughts or critiques.

 

I really think we can do some good for the game here, and I hope that the rest of this discussion is as thoughtful, thought provoking, and civilized as it has been.

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First of all, we actually do NEED those flower bushes and the 5 minutes that you are talking about is more like several hours and thats to buy some basic items.. essence, potions or other items to make those things such as feasting potions because some of us .. if not most of us like me have NO gold in storage. :)

 

actually if u NEED those flower bushes maybe u should look at u'r playing style to b honest. i went ahead and became antisocial, i don't harvest flowers for money, and i get along fine. believe it or not even b4 i went antisocial i never harvested for money and still did great. next time u see me ingame PM me if u'd like and i can help u (even showing u a few things to help u exploit parts of the system i've listed that i'm trying to get fixed like free to next to free PoFs)

 

<joke> lupines are bad, u shouldn't do lupines, okay? if u do them, u'r bad, because lupines are bad, okay? it's a bad thing to do lupines. so don't b bad, by doing lupines okay? that'd b bad, lupines are bad, okay?</joke>

 

 

This might not be popular, but in fact the artificially high prices for flowers have a knock-on effect for other items too. Why worry about selling items at a loss when you can make the money back in 5mins at the PL money tree? 0.01gc might be a little too low, something around 0.05-0.1gc may be fairer. A serious fix to the economy would end the spectacle of high level players sitting around picking flowers all day.

 

actually that's what i said according to ents specifications, if u looked later my FULL opinion is that harvestables shouldn't b sold to NPCs at all. that it would be better to let the other player's more limited cash set the limits on what a player can sell since apparently the devs don't think it would b worth it to code the NPCs to limit what 1 can sell to them. players don't have unlimited cash like the NPCs do. so if u take the NPCs out of the equation completely it will force them to work on complete supply/demand plus taking the unlimited GC from the NPCs out of the game, which would in turn allow the devs to balance the other NPC prices at just above cost, because on manufacured items and monsters would be the ONLY introductions of money into the game. w/o that relatively quick availability of money, ppl will actually have to work for their money, valuing their time more, raising prices again 1ce the harvestables settle down on the general market.

 

 

 

edit: actually Dent, i think most of us are just arguing our points now. that isn't a bad thing though, it helps provide more detail to the suggestions to help entropy see the pro's and con's of each idea :)

 

i hope that's how ent sees it too neway, i do.

Edited by DemonCowboy

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i see two major problems with the economy. One is the monster drops. Monsters should only drop nonmanufacturable items and rare items. This will allow nonmanufacturable items, like cloaks, to be introduced into the market. They shouldn't drop manufacturable items, because this lowers the price because of too much supply. In return for getting rid of the drops, monsters should drop more coins to fund the fighters. Looking at it from the fighters point of view, a fighter would be a fighter for profit, if there were no profit he would seek more lucrative employment. By dropping more coins, he can buy the items he needs like essence, potions, weapons and armor. Thus spurring the economy.

Second, i think the NPC prices are way too high. The NPC's should only be used for a last resort sale. For instance, if you make the magic shops buy fire essence for 1 gold coin each, people will be more likely to sell on the market channel for around 2 gold coins. Right now, with the NPC's buying for 3 gold coins, nobody wants to sell them for less than what the NPC's pays. Bars at the NPC's are way too high too. If you buy the bars and essence to make swords, you cant sell them for what you have in them. So by lowering the NPC prices, you would encourage people to sell on the market channel. So basically, i think that the NPC prices should be low enough that noone would want to sell to them so people will sell to other players. Then the alchemists might buy from the harvesters. The crafters and manufacturers might be more likely to buy from the alchemists. The fighters, since they arent getting the manufactuable drops, would have to buy from manufacturers, potionists, and crafters.

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i see two major problems with the economy. One is the monster drops. Monsters should only drop nonmanufacturable items and rare items. This will allow nonmanufacturable items, like cloaks, to be introduced into the market. They shouldn't drop manufacturable items, because this lowers the price because of too much supply. In return for getting rid of the drops, monsters should drop more coins to fund the fighters. Looking at it from the fighters point of view, a fighter would be a fighter for profit, if there were no profit he would seek more lucrative employment. By dropping more coins, he can buy the items he needs like essence, potions, weapons and armor. Thus spurring the economy.

 

I agree with you on this one

 

Second, i think the NPC prices are way too high. The NPC's should only be used for a last resort sale. For instance, if you make the magic shops buy fire essence for 1 gold coin each, people will be more likely to sell on the market channel for around 2 gold coins.

 

hmmm i don't agree on this one.

 

If actually people finds, for example, very difficult to sell bars at a reasonable price (usually 5gcs over the NPC price) how could lowering the NPC price help that? it would just bring even more surplus resources to the game when the people that sells at NPCs (i do that sometimes, yeah) starts to have to sell only to players.

 

lowering the NPCs prices will bring to an even more deflation, which isn't a great thing.

 

Cheers.

Edited by Tharazik

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We have to concentrate on the supply and demand not on the NPC prices. NPC prices should only be there as a last resort, like they could be use for the devlopers to see and item price is falling if to many of them are selling to an NPC, then they adjust either the fomual, time to make it, or give it a new use (trying to either lower the supply or rase the demand)

 

NPC prices, where a little while ago concide way to low to sell to, but because of the high supply and low demand fell to the point they are now when the only thing stopping them going lower is the NPC, and if that is lower, it will just keep going lower and lower

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Monster drops (we barely get drops as it is) aren't what is ailing the failing EL economy. Its the massive over production of items from the players need to level thus making supply and demand virtually null and void.

 

Demon, you make me laugh lol. Yes I'm a bad goddess because I do harvest blue lupines and I wouldn't have to if I had gold but I don't have gold and I am one of those high level players. I refuse to take anti social and infact I am against that perk because all it does is encourage multiplay which isn't fair to the players who don't cheat.

 

I don't pk so no income from that. I do miss the days of Ros stone drops. I remember that big heated debate about how everyone said that by removing Ros stones from the monster drops it would help to improve the economy. I warned people then that it wouldn't but no one listened to me. I warned people that with the stone in the hands of the harvester the price would skyrocket and the economy wouldn't change one iota. Guess what? I was right. :dry:

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One more thing, there is no such thing as a perfect economy not even in a game so lets just forget about that ever happening because it won't. What the economy needs now is more balance and placing a cap on experience per hour or better yet a cool down on all tools, even a needle will do more to help the economy than anything else. It still won't be a perfect solution because perfect doesn't exist and there is no such thing as an Etopian society, not even in a virtual reality.

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Why should manufacturers (i talk about manufacturers cos i tell around that im a manufacturer *coughs*buy from meee*stops coughing*) be able to do everything at level 40? shouldn't also we raise the manufacturing levels required to do some items?

We used to have this, it's not an original idea at all. I've been harping on getting required levels back since we dropped that, we definitely need it. (search :dry: )

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Why should manufacturers (i talk about manufacturers cos i tell around that im a manufacturer *coughs*buy from meee*stops coughing*) be able to do everything at level 40? shouldn't also we raise the manufacturing levels required to do some items?

We used to have this, it's not an original idea at all. I've been harping on getting required levels back since we dropped that, we definitely need it. (search :dry: )

 

 

We weren't talking about required levels Aislinn :cry: we were talking about 'stretching' the raccomended levels for the items.

 

Atm you can do a titanium chainmail at level 36. it would be better to increase the reccomended level to, let's say, 40.

 

 

Cheers.

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I have read this hold thread and i believe the main thing to fix the econmy is all about Supply and Demand. At the moment we have a massive Supply due to mass production, and a small Demand for some, but there are a few items with a good Demand, there is just to much Supply, so here is a list of all the idea i have seen in this thread that with affect the supply and demand in a good way.

 

Supply

  1. Manufactoring in stages.
    This increases the time to make a single finished item, but would still give the same amount of exp, as you can split the exp giving in stages. It also leads to more chances to fail and loss making it, which means people would more likly wait till there at the recamended level before making them.
     
    Example
    Stage 1 Iron Bar: 2 Iron ore
    Stage 2 Iron Bar: 1 Stage 1 Iron Bar, 1 Iron ore
    Stage 3 Iron Bar: 1 Stage 2 Iron Bar, 1 Iron ore
    Stage 4 Iron Bar: 1 Stage 3 Iron Bar, 1 Iron ore
    Stage 5 Iron Bar: 1 Stage 4 Iron Bar, 1 Iron ore
    Stage 6 Iron Bar: 1 Stage 5 Iron Bar, 1 Iron ore
    Stage 7 Iron Bar: 1 Stage 6 Iron Bar, 1 Coal
    Stage 8 Iron Bar: 1 Stage 7 Iron Bar, 1 Coal
    Stage 9 Iron Bar: 1 Stage 8 Iron Bar, 1 Coal
    Stage 10 Iron Bar: 1 Stage 9 Iron Bar, 1 Fire Essence
    Iron Bar: 1 Stage 10 Iron Bar, 1 Fire Essence
     
    You can see this will obvuoly make everything take longer to make, 10x longer mixing time for an Iron Bar only. The fomualers will Need to be edited so they the higher the item the more mixes they need, meaning they take longer.
     
  2. Remove Monster Drop's of Mixable Items
    By this i mean anything that another skill can create. This would also effect the demand, because if a fighter can't get the weapon they need from fighting alone they will have to buy it. Ofcourse for them to be able to buy it they need to be giving other items for them to make money on. This would be any other item that can't be made in game, and that fighters wouldn't use themselfs (if they used it themselfs it means they wouldn't need buy it, which is as bad as the mixable items, but i tihnk it would be best to make a market for them). So for example they would drop books (maybe ever book in game, but the rates of drops would need to be adjusted to match the demand for the books), thread, all animal items, leather, vials.
     
    The main thing is that mixable items need to be removed from drops, and drops of a piticual item to be lowered, but more items that is drop. So something like Tit serp con book would drop less, but there would be more books adviable to be drop. Therefor the fighter would get around the same amount of books, just different types of books not all the same book.
     
  3. Cooldown On Tools
    This will mean that people can only make things at a certain speed. Which will lower the production of items. It along with this was a rise in exp it would mean people would make less items per level and per hour, but still getting the same amount of exp, which would mean less to sell on market, lowing the supply. The only problem i see with this is it fouces people to either sit and wait while making something, or do more than one skill. I see most people choosing the second option, and then if they have to do more than one skill they would normally choose to do a skill that helps there main skill. E.g. Manu as main, and then Alch while waiting. This will mean there no market for the intermedate items as everyone will be making them themselfs.
     
  4. Cap's On All Skills
    This would work just like harvesting, where you can only get exp from a certain amount of items per hour. This would first mean that people would be forced to make the highest items they can start after the hour in order to get exp. Then if they was using that skill for money, they would more onto the item that makes the money after this time. It would deffently decrease the supply. The down side i can see though is this forces people to try to make items before the recomended level, which can be a down side as it leads to more high level items it game (when you normally aim to have less of the higher level items). Also if the high level item they are making doesn't have much demand on the market, it's going to make it even worse, as people will be making as many as they can for the exp, then selling them at what ever price (because in the end a small amount of gc back for the exp is better than nothing) leading to that item lossing value. Which is very bad because if the highest item is selling cheap, then everything under it will have to sell for even less. But this could work if we can keep the demand for this item very high.
     
  5. Limit The Amount Of Raw Matrials That Can Be Harvested
    This can be done it a number of ways, but the best way i think would be every person can only harvest a certain amount of reasource per hour (so it would stop you when your harvest exp cap would cut in. That would limit the amount a person can manu items to a certain extent. They would be force to buy from other players if they want to level any more. Problem that could happen is, people who have enough money would just keep buying the harvestable items and then sells the finished products for what ever they can on market, just in order to get as much exp as they can. This would still leave the problem of mass producing for a while, and it gives people will lots of money a chance to get ahead of the rest. Good thing is this can't last, as people will adventally run out of money, meaning mass profuction will stop, and prices will slowly come up. Although i do see this as one of the idea most people will not like, even though it should help them.

Demand

  1. Remove Monster Drop's of Mixable Items.
    I wont go into detail on this as i'v said it above
     
  2. Re-use Lower Items In The Skill
    We already have this to a certain extent with crafting, and it works well, it has created a market for items such as polished gem's and silver/gold rings/medalion. It's not perfect at the moment as there is still more supply than demand, but it does add demand to lower level items of a skill, which normally end up being useless to other skills, e.g. Iron Sword, at the moment noone uses this as they can get a Titanium long. So for an example how how this can work in Manu
     
    Iron Broad Sword: 1 Iron Sword, plus some bars and fire essences
     
    And if we do this so the every sword needs the prevous sword it means that ever time someone is buying a Titanium Serpant, they are actually buying 1 of every sword, making the demand for swords in general alot higher.
     
  3. Change The Way You Earn Attack Exp.
    At present using a weapon when training means you get less exp, therefor people dont use a weapon. If it was changed so that people would gain the same amount of attack exp, or even more when using a weapon, we should start seeing the demand for weapons increase
     
  4. Level Restrictions For Using Items
    This would force lower leveled people to use the lower items, meaning more demand for the lower items increase. This has tryed to be done in-game now, but looking at money being the reason why lower leveled people can't get higher items. But due to both low and high level people getting there money the same way (harvesting bl's or fruit) there is no differencing in the speed of them getting money, so items fall to what they both can affored. So personally I think this is not needed if we can sort of how players earn there money, but it could be there as a backup (and if your looking for a quick fix this would do it, but ofcourse quick fixes only work to a certain extent).

There is also other idea's which need to be done that dont fit into the supply and demand.

  1. Stop NPC's Buying Harvestable Items, and Remove Haresting as a Skill.
    This would basicly mean that the only reason people would harvest is to get items to mix themselfs, or if they know they can sell them on market (stop money coming into the game from people harvesting).
     
    Other ways it would help the game that dont affect the econmy would be. It will reduce the number of macroing. As people can't just make a program that constently harvestest and then sells the items, noone is going to bother. It would also take the most boring skill out of the game, if you think about it, how many people really enjoy sitting in one spot for hours on end just to show they have he highest skill in it?
     
    We would still need to be able to harvest, just have it as something you do, not something you learn. Like eatting, or walking, we need to do this things yo play the game, but there boring so there's no need to make them a skill to train.
     
  2. Fomual Tweaking
    The fumualers need to be changed so that the profit and exp gain increases as you level. This can't be the only thing that is done though, because this alone wont make people want to buy an item from you, it just makes you want to make a better item as you get better.
     
  3. NPC's Setting a Button Price For All Mixable Items
    This is basicly just a last resort, where if the item isn't selling well on the market channel they have a NPC that buy's it for a small price. I however would suggest the main reason it is added to game not so that players have somewhere to sell unwanted junk, but for the devlopers to have a quick way of telling which items aren't selling on market. So if the devloper checked and noticed Steel Long Swrods are being sold to NPC's alot they could then look into why, either be it that the NPC pays to much compaired to what it's worth, There is no enough demand for it on market channel, or the time to make it is to fast. That way it makesspot what items need tweaking in either fumualers/making time/exp alot easyer for the devlopers, so they dont have to relly on players pointing out the problem
     
  4. Weapon Deconstruction
    Basicly you can a finished produce and add certain items to it in order to split it up into some of the items that was used to make it. This would work by giving poeple who want to level fast a way to do it without rruining the econmy, and as they have to add extra items to break it up, and dont get everything back, they will still have to gain items, just not as many as they would making it from the beginning. Problem with this is people want to be able to train there skill and earn money, not one or the other. So i think people would still mainly mass produce items that make them some profit. This could however be added to give people a way of spending there money to level faster, but it wont really help the econmy that much IMO.

I will try to edit this post as people post more idea's that i haven't mentioned, that way devlopers can use this as a quick way to check this whole thread. Fell free to post any more ideas, or any different view points on the idea's i'v got.

Edited by Kedan

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Thanks Kedan, that's a useful post. Since you ask about ideas you've missed out:

IMO harvesting-style exp caps are better than tool cooldown. This way, people can produce as much as they like when the market is 'working' (selling price is greater than production cost). However, when the market is not working, it cuts the supply by completely removing the motivation to mass produce. I prefer this option because its less restrictive than a cooldown. Perhaps those supporting a cooldown could give an indication of the sort of time they're talking about - I'd have thought that a time long enough to be effective would be quite frustrating even for people wanting to make small numbers of items.

Edited by Mundaus

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Perhaps those supporting a cooldown could give an indication of the sort of time they're talking about - I'd have thought that a time long enough to be effective would be quite frustrating even for people wanting to make small numbers of items.

 

I don't support a CoolDown if every other option in the thread would be implemented, if they wouldn't be then i would support a cooldown lasting ~ like a Potion or Feasting.

 

 

Cheers

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This would work just like harvesting, where you can only get exp from a certain amount of items per hour. ... The down side i can see though is this forces people to try to make items before the recomended level, which can be a down side as it leads to more high level items it game (when you normally aim to have less of the higher level items). Which is very bad because if the highest item is selling cheap, then everything under it will have to sell for even less. But this could work if we can keep the demand for this item very high.

 

A fair point although i'm sure that demand for serps is already greater than that for iron broads and demand for iron plate greater than that for iron chain. In the market at the moment, the worst underpricing problems are at the bottom end, so encouraging people to make higher level items may not be a bad thing. I do agree that there could be a problem if lots of people are above the recommended level for the hardest item and then just make that, though since the ingredients are harder to acquire this may not be an issue in practice.

Edited by Mundaus

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Alright, going to step on toes here, but sorry, this comes from a real life crafter. My main business is beading (making necklaces, earrings a.s.o.) I've read through the post from beginning to end, I do believe that bkc56 has a good idea there of improving the economy. Nothing ever can create a perfect economy, but most suggestions are huge steps instead of starting small.

 

And yes, my hobby/business does not support me or my family, so I do have a second job doing something else. Most of the biggest complaints I hear here are mass productions, which is something I fight in real life, it's always going to be there, but nobody once mentioned one fact, aside from mass produce to raise levels, why are most doing it? Simple, TO MAKE MONEY!!! The way the prices dropped for items, the only way you can make some is to have a huge amount to sell (very much like massproduction of countries taking business from crafters making things handmade, thus more expensive and in turn harder to sell). It's the reason why many players massharvest. But taking npc's being able to buy harvestable items will not solve the problem, it will just increase the problem at hand. Reducing the amount they pay for base items would be a start but still will not solve the problem on helping the economy, actually without an opposite step, it would just plunge the EL community into a deeper problem.

 

Another is the price of items harvested, only good reason to use the item to produce a finished product is to gain experience, selling the items is pointless unless you like to take a loss in gc. I gave up crafting in the game due to the fact that it was not profitable. There needs to be a balance to be able to do something you enjoy in the game and be able to support yourself to continue doing so. And no matter what will be done to help the economy it will take time, adjusting and tweaking.

 

As for a solution, that will take some tinkering, and no matter what, it won't work for everybody, so bah ha. For a simple step, I agree on certain things, there should be a way for every player to sell a finished product at base price to a npc if they can not sell to the market. Some formulas would need to be adjusted to reflect the price most players ARE WILLING to pay (it makes no sense to make c2 rings, which take a huge amount of resources when no player is willing to pay the 250+gc they cost to make). I'm not a manufactorer here in the game, but I do have to say some of the ideas of making a finished product I've read about are good ideas, it takes several steps to make a ring, why not apply it to manu and make items, that are considered useless, something thats needed.

 

Unfortunatly I can't give better ideas, simply because my business is based on the fact that every piece I make are one-of-a-kind items and my buyers know I won't reproduce the piece to sell to somebody else. So, I'm going to hide behind my piece I'm working on now and watch how the game evolves (which I love by the way).

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(Taken from Kedan's post)

Kedan, I think you ignored some of the things I posted.

 

Supply

  1. Manufactoring in stages.
    Good idea.
  2. Remove Monster Drop's of Mixable Items
    Good idea.
  3. Cooldown On Tools
    Bad idea.
  4. Cap's On All Skills
    Bad idea.
  5. Limit The Amount Of Raw Matrials That Can Be Harvested
    Very Bad idea.

Demand

  1. Remove Monster Drop's of Mixable Items.
    You said this one twice.
  2. Re-use Lower Items In The Skill
    Good idea but not necessary if lower items are given another use.
  3. Change The Way You Earn Attack Exp.
    Good idea
  4. Level Restrictions For Using Items
    Very Good idea.

There is also other idea's which need to be done that dont fit into the supply and demand.

[*]Stop NPC's Buying Harvestable Items, and Remove Haresting as a Skill.

Very Bad idea.

[*]Fomual Tweaking

Good idea.

[*]NPC's Setting a Button Price For All Mixable Items

Good idea.

 

It may seem like I am passing judgement on these ideas too quickly, but I have very good reasons for stating what I have. I just didn't feel like boring everyone with a HUGE post about why certain ideas wouldn't work.

 

I think what we should do is stop posting until Entropy says which ideas he likes, and then we can go into detail on the ones that have been selected because I see absolutely no point in persuing lost causes (or things that will never be implemented anyway)!

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I just posted the idea which i think could work, some of them do have down sides, but they were worth putting up there. I put both the good and bad points on the idea's, if you think i have missed any points on a certain idea just post them and i will add them, that way ent and the other devlopers get to see what everyone thinks will happen

Edited by Kedan

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While everyone's off topic, one more idea:

http://www.eternal-lands.com/forum/index.p...&hl=deconstruct

Now while I don't go along with the stuff about gaining knowledge, could deconstruction be used to help the economy? Basically something like:

Iron sword + Coals + FEs -> Iron bars?

Then for people who just want exp, they could make iron swords, convert them back into bars (perhaps not as many) and then convert back into swords. They gain exp and dont flood the market? It's just an idea, and I'm quite happy to get flamed :)

 

EDIT: Thanks for adding this suggestion to the list, Kedan

Edited by Mundaus

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