Thordin Report post Posted May 23, 2006 I don't agree on limiting number of members, instead of it, we should encourage to have 10 large guilds instead of 100 tiny ones. Though requirements are just ok, but price of 30kgc is nothing, 100kgc+ would be better, but then there should be some rewards for having a guild, such as guild robe/cape, more sophisticated guild structure (more layers) and so on, but that is a different story... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zaer Report post Posted May 23, 2006 ofcourse.. the whole point isnt to limit the number of people in a guild indefinately, but rather to make guilds work to be able to have more member. Maybe just more money is a bigger guild, but maybe quests that have to be done in teams to obtain some special item. This item can then be used to level up your guild, sot that it can have more members, and maybe also some other bonuses. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aislinn Report post Posted May 23, 2006 Also the requirements (level and gc) need to be higher so that people who actually are qualified to be guild leaders are guild leaders, not the first noob off the street who is still asking #help_me questions. No offense but if you can't even figure out where to find the available guild commands, you have NO business running a guild, let alone being in charge of others. Guilds used to be a goal, something special to be accepted into, you were proud to have those golden letters next to your name. Guilds were also known because there weren't so many, and you knew the leaders because they had been around a bit...everybody knew who was in EG, *CO*, CEL, Wolf, GoN, etc...and you knew what to expect. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Atlantis Report post Posted May 23, 2006 yes, at least 1 level at 50 and make it like 50k gc, shouldnt have these people with harvest 20 running a guild cuz they got 15k gc and bought one Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ville-v Report post Posted May 23, 2006 yes, at least 1 level at 50 and make it like 50k gc, shouldnt have these people with harvest 20 running a guild cuz they got 15k gc and bought one What about following? Skill at or over 60 to make guild. Skill at or over 50 to be able to have rank 20 in guild. Skill at or over 40 to be able to have rank 19 in guild. Amount of gc to make guild is raised to 40kgc. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Atlantis Report post Posted May 23, 2006 only change I would make is make rank 20 and making guild same level Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aislinn Report post Posted May 23, 2006 Oh, and I forgot... NO being able to transfer a guild over to someone who does not meet the requirements. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thordin Report post Posted May 23, 2006 I would also suggest to have TWO skills 20+ to be able to join guild, having 20. level of harvesting is too easy, one day work... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vanyel Report post Posted May 23, 2006 (edited) Skill level 60 to start a guild; Skill level 30 to join a guild; 100k gc to start a guild; No giving guild to people not meeting requirements; 50k gc payment while giving guild to other person. <edit> Followed teh Hammer Wielder suggestion. Am afraid to be frienly patted with teh hammer wield by Teh HammerMaster De Topic Fairy de PL Edited May 23, 2006 by Vanyel Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aislinn Report post Posted May 23, 2006 50k gc to start a guild; at least 100k Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thordin Report post Posted May 23, 2006 Skill level 60 to start a guild;Skill level 30 to join a guild; 100k gc to start a guild; No giving guild to people not meeting requirements; 50k gc payment while giving guild to other person. <edit> Followed teh Hammer Wielder suggestion. Am afraid to be frienly patted with teh hammer wield by Teh HammerMaster De Topic Fairy de PL 100% agreed Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LadyReni Report post Posted May 24, 2006 Incearsing requirements such as skill's level would discriminate people who don't care about skills as much as they care about roleplaying... They do deserve to be able to have guilds just as much as skilled players... just a thought ... what do you think? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zaer Report post Posted May 24, 2006 no you can roleplay by sitting at beam, or going onto a channel. People have to work hard for guilds so that they actually get a sense of achievement in being in one/owning one. Or you find a play who likes to roleplay and can make a guild, there are alot of those around so its no prob Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LadyReni Report post Posted May 24, 2006 (edited) off topic: pft Zaer I will slap you on #GM Edited May 24, 2006 by LadyReni Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dejan Report post Posted May 24, 2006 I honestly do not see the benefits of this suggestion. Big guilds are usualy full of low-level PKers, so limiting number of members won't change anything. On the other hand, GUILDS = COMMUNITY . Hardcore's suggestion basicaly states: limit the community. This will especially be bad with guilds whose members speak their native language(s), thus forming sub-community. My guild Yugo is one example of such. We are perfectly happy to speak Serbo-Croatian (or Serbian and Croatian as some would prefer) on our channel. One would suggest "you can all join one single channel" - yes some of us do join #381, but some will not for many different, good reasons. In short - no, this is not a good suggestion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zaer Report post Posted May 24, 2006 How would this limit the community in any way? Most guilds atm are just groups of people that dont do much together. If you put in number limits it means the people will be people you know and like, and if there are quests or w/e that you have to complete in order to have more people in your guild then you will have to use teamwork to get them, and so get to know your guildies even more. And if you just use guilds to chat go to a channel or meet up somewhere lolz, guilds should be about teamwork and groups of people working together to accomplish something. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trollson Report post Posted May 24, 2006 (edited) I'll add my voice to this: I do not think this idea is well thought out. The suggestion comes from a single viewpoint; that guilds represent wealthy and powerful bodies. That is a singular stereotype, and misses out on a host of possibilities for guilds which could add to the richness of the community. Why shouldnt there be a Beggars guild, or a guild of aesthetic monks? The current restrictions on guilds are adequate to stop every new character from starting a guild. Level 40 and 30k gc (if I recall correctly?) may be trivial for experienced players, but still require a substantial effort for a completely new player (note: player, not character). I do agree that there should be more to guilds than is currently implemented; but these could be 'add-ons' which could be added overtime, as the guild is built up and develops (and not necessarily just bought for gold). Imagine something like perks for guilds, adding resources and facilities. At the moment there is only one in-game guild perk (the Merchant NPCs), and the purchased features (guild only maps, guild sponsored bots). Edited May 24, 2006 by trollson Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kalach Report post Posted May 24, 2006 I'll add my voice to this: I do not think this idea is well thought out. The suggestion comes from a single viewpoint; that guilds represent wealthy and powerful bodies. That is a singular stereotype, and misses out on a host of possibilities for guilds which could add to the richness of the community. Why shouldnt there be a Beggars guild, or a guild of aesthetic monks? The current restrictions on guilds are adequate to stop every new character from starting a guild. Level 30 and 30k gc (if I recall correctly?) may be trivial for experienced players, but still require a substantial effort for a completely new player (note: player, not character). I do agree that there should be more to guilds than is currently implemented; but these could be 'add-ons' which could be added overtime, as the guild is built up and develops (and not necessarily just bought for gold). Imagine something like perks for guilds, adding resources and facilities. At the moment there is only one in-game guild perk (the Merchant NPCs), and the purchased features (guild only maps, guild sponsored bots). I would agree with this, but I want to echo something Aislinn has said. In order to transfer a guild to any player, that player should meet the minimum requirements to start a guild in the first place. A guild should not be able to be given as a "gift" or to "help a new guy out". That said, I have yet to see a requirement mentioned that actually indicates a player is competent to run a guild. It doesn't take much beyond being told where to click to level a character and amass 30gc. I think anyone could do this by spending a *lot* of time harvesting lilacs in WSC. (Not that someone would take that route.) And then we get another cookie cutter ill thought out guild. It will have a description that boils down to: We have honor/we don't have honor We kill things Outside of an individuals desire to be a leader, I don't know what the point of this extra guild is. It would be nice if the guild was reviewed for reasonability of idea before it was created. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Atlantis Report post Posted May 24, 2006 At the moment there is only one in-game guild perk (the Merchant NPCs), and the purchased features (guild only maps, guild sponsored bots). Shared vision will be used soon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trollson Report post Posted May 24, 2006 (edited) That said, I have yet to see a requirement mentioned that actually indicates a player is competent to run a guild. It doesn't take much beyond being told where to click to level a character and amass 30gc. Good point, but how would you implement such a requirement? Competency is in the player not the character. I suspect that with imagination something could be worked out though. Maybe make starting a guild more of a process than a simple command. Off the top of my head then... Consider that a guild has a guild level, which is also the rank of the guild master (ie, existing guilds are level 20). The guild also has guild experience ('gxp') which determines its level, using the same table as character skills. Guild experience can go up and down, though level only goes up when the gxp passes the threshold (it would be too complicated to account for losing levels). However, if the gxp ever drops below zero the guild is dissolved. Each guild level gained also earns one guild pickpoint, which can be spent on some improvement to the guild as a whole. Similar to character pickpoints, they could be used to acquire guild-specific perks etc. A new guild is started by gathering the founding members in the same room, and declaring an oath (or whatever mechanism). The guild starts at level 1 (and 140 gxp), the guild master therefore has rank 1, and the others have rank 0. Normal rank requirements for guild actions remain, so you cannot recruit new guild members until the guild reaches level 15 (and the guild master can then '#accept'). Guilds can reach levels over 20, and there could be new guild commands available to higher ranked members. There would be some deeds and actions by which gxp can be earned. These could vary based on the guild, and could be the result of taking guild perks (eg, a trappers perk could give gxp for sacrificing certain animal parts). That initial pick point (and some other cash or item sacrifice) would be required to buy the first way the guild could earn gxp. The more cooperation required to acquire gxp the better... Then, charge gxp for certain guild actions -- particularly for accepting new members, and when members leave or are fired, and raising ranks, all cost gxp. Basically, all member-management actions cost gxp, and you have to think carefully about having reliable recruits. Guild experience could also serve as a place for Moderators to 'fine' guilds. Some method of handling inactive characters may be useful, but since they have already cost the guild gxp for admitting them, its no skin off our noses. Guilds are't ranked by members anymore, but by level. ...well, thats just one idea. It should be easy enough to retrofit to existing guilds. But there are plenty of other interesting options without straining the game mechanics. Edited May 24, 2006 by trollson Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zaer Report post Posted May 24, 2006 thats the kinda thing we were talking about >.< good idea btw ^^ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kalach Report post Posted May 24, 2006 thats the kinda thing we were talking about >.< good idea btw ^^ It is a very interesting thought. And it avoids the one thing that I don't want to see happen (Having seen posts about increasing GC cost and skill level cost). It doesn't penalize the person with a competent idea and plan, who has not amassed skill levels. There are two sets of criteria people seem to be concerned with: #1 -- Being competent to have an interesting guild. #2 -- Knowing enough about the game to be able to reasonably administer the guild. Being currently far from having a stat at 39, let alone the cash (although that will be trivial once I have that stat), I would say that I am familiar enough with the game mechanics to administer a guild. I think waiting to 39, though, will help me become more familiar with game geography. This to say that I think the current requirements meet criteria #2, as long as guild transfer is limited to people that meet that requirement. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ville-v Report post Posted May 24, 2006 A new guild is started by gathering the founding members in the same room, and declaring an oath (or whatever mechanism). The guild starts at level 1 (and 140 gxp), the guild master therefore has rank 1, and the others have rank 0. Normal rank requirements for guild actions remain, so you cannot recruit new guild members until the guild reaches level 15 (and the guild master can then '#accept'). Guilds can reach levels over 20, and there could be new guild commands available to higher ranked members. So guild couldn't change guild info, guild tag, chat with gm before required level is reached? Then it should be easy to level up... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trollson Report post Posted May 24, 2006 (edited) So guild couldn't change guild info, guild tag, chat with gm before required level is reached? Then it should be easy to level up... How hard or easy it is to gain gxps is a matter of balance over the long term, since this level of difficulty will continue into the guilds maturity. But yes, the embryonic guild would have no info, tag, or chat until it reached the necessary levels to have enable or use them. No tag at all... Makes it something to be earned, rather than just paid for. Yep, you'd have to work at building your guild. So the more initial members the better to gain those initial levels, but since the starting gxps are so low (140), if any of them leave the resulting gxp loss (say 1000 gxp per member leaving) would dissolve the guild. A cunning balance between numbers and reliability is needed. (Though some guild commands may need to be made available to the guildmaster regardless of rank, or may be associated with a guild perk) Edited May 24, 2006 by trollson Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ikaris Report post Posted May 26, 2006 (edited) Oh stop trying to be elitist snobs since you already have a guild. Just get over it ... YOU ARE NOT SPECIAL or superior to anyone else just because you have been here longer. Grow up and stop trying to hog the sandbox ... silly children. Leave the guild structure alone. Live and let live. Edited May 26, 2006 by Ikaris Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
