NPC storage bots at Idaloran need some additional features

[vitez]

Well, in order for Idaloran NPC storage bots to be realy productive and useful we need few additional features.

1) We need buy/sell log so we can track down who is buying what, and make statistical analyzis what is the top-wanted thing.

2) We need current LAGER status at every possible moment, so we can know whether we should start working on some stuff if it sells rapidly. I do not want person to come to the bot, willing to buy 100 mercury and realize there is only 10 pieces left!

3) We _REALLY_ need ability to track down WHO from the guild invested what, and which percent of his stuff has been sold. If a memberX of guild guildY has invested items worth of 150000 gc, we would like to know at any moment how much money we can safely give to that person.

 

I understand this is a work on progress, but I BEG developers to fix this as soon as possible, because the price we pay for these bots is much higher than what we actually will get from them.

 

Ah yes, another thing - the GUI interface for these new NPC bots should actually be the same, but modified, storage NPC interface, with sections. Current NEXT/PREVIOUS blah blah - interface is NOT user-friendly.

[Aislinn]

Where were you when they were on the test server?

 

http://www.eternal-lands.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=23053

 

http://www.eternal-lands.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=23644

[Torg]

I understand this is a work on progress, but I BEG developers to fix this as soon as possible, because the price we pay for these bots is much higher than what we actually will get from them.

Errr... actually, afaik once they came to the main server Ent was wanting to be finished with them (except for any bugs of course). This is why there are threads posted about them available on the test server, and why there is a test server in the first place.

[Arnieman]

Aislinn - in this case, test server testing couldn't have helped this inherent problem, as far as people wanting an action log...

 

http://www.eternal-lands.com/forum/index.p...ndpost&p=238295

 

Entropy had said there were some security issues to providing the logs...

[Aislinn]

Yes I know but if he read the threads and went to test them, he would have seen that himself and not bought a real one if he didn't like them.

[Arnieman]

true enough, but still the logs would be nice if it could have been sorted out for guild leaders to get them... then again, I didn't even bother to touch on the interface thing - certainly, a GUI for it would be nice, but I was ok on the test server in my tests with what we have...

[Entropy]

NPC storage bots?

Dude, WTF?

Why the fuck would I bother to 'fix' them when you don't even know what their purpose is?

 

And BTW, we do log everything, but the logs are not public, we keep them only in case there are issues.

If you don't like them, feel free not to pay their quarterly fee, I am sure some other guild will be able to use them just fine.

[RallosZek]

What vitez means with storage npc, is just the interface, since there's now multiple pages to scroll through and no way to see how much of an item is left. For regular npcs this is fine, since they have unlimited supplies and limited ammount of different items.

 

However, a storage widget would be as counterproductive, since where would you leave the price of items and how would you buy?

 

From a 'customer' perspective, they work well, but I can see the problems for guilds, since there's currently no way to distribute money to members who have contributed, other then limiting access to fill the merchant npc to only a few people and administer it using tools outside Eternal Lands (Tip: this is where your guildforum can help).

[Torg]

What vitez means with storage npc, is just the interface

What Ent is saying is that he isn't even going to bother listening to someone that can't even call them by their correct name. They have nothing todo with storage. They are Guild Sales NPC's. I think the confusion came in the word Store (as in shop, not storage).

[MagpieLee]

What vitez means with storage npc, is just the interface

What Ent is saying is that he isn't even going to bother listening to someone that can't even call them by their correct name. They have nothing todo with storage. They are Guild Sales NPC's. I think the confusion came in the word Store (as in shop, not storage).

 

SOO true. I came here to read if the NPC of Idaloran would have more special features then the other storage NPCS, but instead they were only about the guild-rented merchant npcs.

[Aislinn]

What vitez means with storage npc, is just the interface, since there's now multiple pages to scroll through and no way to see how much of an item is left. For regular npcs this is fine, since they have unlimited supplies and limited ammount of different items.

 

However, a storage widget would be as counterproductive, since where would you leave the price of items and how would you buy?

 

From a 'customer' perspective, they work well, but I can see the problems for guilds, since there's currently no way to distribute money to members who have contributed, other then limiting access to fill the merchant npc to only a few people and administer it using tools outside Eternal Lands (Tip: this is where your guildforum can help).

Again, the whole point is, there was a very long and very well publicized testing/trial period for people to use them and point out this stuff when it was asked for. Now that they are in place, people who couldn't be bothered to worry about it when they were being "fixed" now decide they want one and don't like the features or lack of them.

[TheMadToker]

I understand what you are saying, about the fact that people who did not test these on the server should have... but the fact is they are in the game now, and a lot of the issues some of the npc owners are having is just common sense.

 

For instance, the fact that there is no way too see the npc's current inventory, short of adding more items just to see what is already in there... it's an enormous hassle. Also the fact that we cannot remove any items short of buying them.

 

Though I have a lot of other suggestions, those are two that really should have been in since day one, and how no one commented on those on the test server is amazing to me. Obviously they were not tested enough or by enough people for us to have all these issues now. The fact is, they are in the game now, and I'm sure generating a hundred times more traffic then they ever did on the test server.

 

Dumping them into the game as-is without any sort of plans for tweaking isn't fair. I mean, had I known how ill-tested they were, I would have been on the test server myself... but I suppose since I wasn't my points hold no weight.

 

Anyway, just my two cents.

 

I do want to say though that they are a great idea, and thanks to the Devs for giving us this option. It really helps the smaller guilds who simply don't have the resources to run a normal trade bot.

 

All i ask is you don't close the book on these NPCs yet, they are far from perfect and could use some tweaking. The first of which should be the two points I touched on.

[Torg]

I mean, had I known how ill-tested they were, I would have been on the test server myself... but I suppose since I wasn't my points hold no weight.

Unfortunatly this the the problem. Ent has been saying for ages that people don't do enough testing of things on the test server when he announces something new. Everybody says this after a feature is implemented that they think could be improved. The point of the test server is to get things tested and do all the development there so it is ready and complete when it gets rolled over to the main server. Once its on the main server, apart from bug fixes, its on to the next feature.

 

What we need, is for people to change their mentality about things. If you see something that you like the sound of or think you might use, jump onto the test server for a few hours, play around with it, note the things you like, and those you don't (and any bugs you find), then post about your experience in the relevant thread and hopefully it will added/changed.

 

As for this specific issue of not showing how much is in the inventory, I agree that that is an issue. Hopefully Ent will recognise that and update them for you.

[Arnieman]

I was involved in the first and second round of testing of the NPCs, and due to chooseing to spend some time away from home (and my comp, and as such completely away from EL), I was unable to take part in the third round.

 

We were asked to test what we had, to see if it worked. It did.

 

We were not asked about design issues or anything like that. What we had worked, and what we don't have, wasn't even material to the discussion when we were testing. To make that clear, we were told to test what we had, not what we might want. Since what we had worked, we couldn't say it was buggy since it didn't give us a log, or it didn't have a GUI for items and pricing...

 

If this is a suggestion to improve the Guild Merchant NPCs, shouldn't this be in Suggestions?

 

Personally, if I were to buy one, I would like a GUI - but we who played then lived with the old storage interface too. I'd also like logs, at least the records of what's being bought and sold, and to who.

 

Now, I never meant it wasn't logging somewhere - I would consider this a very basic thing, anything that happens on the server gets logged, or you're just asking for trouble. Making a player log for the NPC shouldn't be too hard, but I'm fine with not partaking if I can't get such. If another guild wants the hassle of trying to work out the issues without the proper support, let them.

[Minardus]

Maybe you devs should encourage ppl to use the test server.

 

Putting a line like "if you don't know how to get on the test server, then DON'T!!)" into a message asking for ppl to test stuff, doesn't really encourage any1 IMHO.

 

If you would explain how to change from port 2000 to 2001, maybe there would be more ppl testing. I know I would.

[Learner]

Maybe you devs should encourage ppl to use the test server.

 

Putting a line like "if you don't know how to get on the test server, then DON'T!!)" into a message asking for ppl to test stuff, doesn't really encourage any1 IMHO.

 

If you would explain how to change from port 2000 to 2001, maybe there would be more ppl testing. I know I would.

Entropy added that because he's had to troubleshoot several bug reports, that have turned out to be from people not following instructions or not even knowing how to unzip things properly.

[Atlantis]

Maybe you devs should encourage ppl to use the test server.

 

Putting a line like "if you don't know how to get on the test server, then DON'T!!)" into a message asking for ppl to test stuff, doesn't really encourage any1 IMHO.

 

If you would explain how to change from port 2000 to 2001, maybe there would be more ppl testing. I know I would.

Entropy added that because he's had to troubleshoot several bug reports, that have turned out to be from people not following instructions or not even knowing how to unzip things properly.

And people reporting bugs that aren't really bugs is a bigger waste of time for the devs then not having those people on the server at all.

[RallosZek]

From a 'customer' perspective, they work well, but I can see the problems for guilds, since there's currently no way to distribute money to members who have contributed, other then limiting access to fill the merchant npc to only a few people and administer it using tools outside Eternal Lands (Tip: this is where your guildforum can help).

Again, the whole point is, there was a very long and very well publicized testing/trial period for people to use them and point out this stuff when it was asked for.

 

But you lack to mention organized. I understand the bidding had to be tested too, but if you have only 2 test npcs available and spend time testing bidding on both of them, then testing time goes to waste and people sit around doing nothing.

Secondly, you'd have to be guilded to test them.

For the rest, see Atahn's remarks - I'd see it as a bug if I can't manage my stock, but when your mindset is focused on 'test if stuff works', you're not looking at what you might need for things to be really workable.

[Aislinn]

But you lack to mention organized. I understand the bidding had to be tested too, but if you have only 2 test npcs available and spend time testing bidding on both of them, then testing time goes to waste and people sit around doing nothing.

Secondly, you'd have to be guilded to test them.

For the rest, see Atahn's remarks - I'd see it as a bug if I can't manage my stock, but when your mindset is focused on 'test if stuff works', you're not looking at what you might need for things to be really workable.

In those threads I mentioned, I see plenty of people suggesting things and entropy asking about what they were suggesting and why they wanted them. So the suggestion that people weren't allowed to ask about things NOT on the npc's already is totally false.

 

Also, have you taken a look at the guild page lately? There is no lack of guilded people ingame to test, even only counting the high ranked ones.

[Torg]

Also, have you taken a look at the guild page lately? There is no lack of guilded people ingame to test, even only counting the high ranked ones.

Actually, even this isn't a problem. There is a reason Ent gives out millions @ beam for testing stuff. It is so you can create guilds to test them.

[Sweettea]

Maybe you devs should encourage ppl to use the test server.

 

Putting a line like "if you don't know how to get on the test server, then DON'T!!)" into a message asking for ppl to test stuff, doesn't really encourage any1 IMHO.

 

If you would explain how to change from port 2000 to 2001, maybe there would be more ppl testing. I know I would.

 

He has a point. I was lucky enough to have someone who I knew take the time to tell me how step by step. I have in turn tried to help those who I could get on the test server. I have been on test server before, last time was to test Merchant NPCs and Hyper Space bags. I couldnt find the NPCs and and werent many ppl on to ask. The last testing for the NPCs I wasn't able to get on test server for some weird reason. SO I left it alone. Maybe an Idea could be to bring some fun to the test server. lol. Have a contest or something.

 

 

Also, have you taken a look at the guild page lately? There is no lack of guilded people ingame to test, even only counting the high ranked ones.

Actually, even this isn't a problem. There is a reason Ent gives out millions @ beam for testing stuff. It is so you can create guilds to test them.

 

When I went on test server the last time my guild went "poof" soon as I logged on, lol. And about getting mucho gc for testing.. You have to be on at the right time. Not all of us can.

[Aislinn]

You get gc to test what needs testing when it needs testing, not to go have a party and play.

 

The test server isn't for "fun", it's for testing.

[Entropy]

He has a point. I was lucky enough to have someone who I knew take the time to tell me how step by step. I have in turn tried to help those who I could get on the test server. I have been on test server before, last time was to test Merchant NPCs and Hyper Space bags. I couldnt find the NPCs and and werent many ppl on to ask. The last testing for the NPCs I wasn't able to get on test server for some weird reason. SO I left it alone. Maybe an Idea could be to bring some fun to the test server. lol. Have a contest or something.

 

It is not my problem you couldn't find two NPCs on Isla Prima. And yes, I did announce they are there.

And in the later part of the tests, we did put 5 NPCs so more guilds can test them.

And not only that, but I did announce prizes for those who find bugs. What more do you want?

 

Anyway, some new features will be added, such as a #list_inv command to show the inventory of an NPC.

As for not being able to remove items from an NPC, that's a simple workaround: Buy the item, then get the money back from the NPC.

Commerce is not easy.

[TheMadToker]

Since my thread in the suggestions forum is apparently as dead as disco, I would like to repost one of the suggestions I had written there, in here:

 

"I like how the NPC remembers the prices that were already set, like if an item is completely sold out, as soon as I restock it the price is already set... what I don't like is how the NPC also remembers what slot the item was in. I had went and cleaned out the inventory only so I could put things back in by groups... all essences togather, armor grouped together, etc. So that it would be easy for people browsing the items to buy, unfortunately once and item is in the NPC remembers the exact slot, so no matter what I do, the items are always a jumbled mess, I just think it would be easier if the owners who want to group things in a more ordely fashion can do so."

 

I'm very glad you plan on adding an Inv command... as that was pretty much the biggest issue I had, but I don't imagine it would be too difficult to make it so the NPCs do not remember what slot a particular item was in, so at least we can keep it better organized then a mis-match of items all over the place. This reason is why some of the other guilds do not even want to renew the NPCs, I've heard them say that looking at the list and seeing a mess of items is rather bothersome.

 

It would just be better for all involved - whether its guilds stocking items or other players buying them - to be able to browse the items in groups.

 

And I agree on the removing items issue, it is only a matter of a simple workaround to take stuff out, so that's really not a problem. But an organized list, now that would be great.

 

And once again, thanks for adding these guys, it's a great idea that helps out the smaller guilds without the resources to run a normal store bot.