ingredients needed for new teleport rings

[Ghrae]

As a top crafter, initially I'm inclined to say NPCs should be selling for higher, can't we make a profit? But I also read the posts about people using the Teleport Room on C2 (something which I forgot about until this thread). In many ways, that alone cancels the heavy usage of the rings no matter what the cost.

 

BUT, there is a positive to these rings. Let's face it, the economy is in an ever sliding position. What crafter buys all his ingredients? Hell, the crafters are already selling their C1 rings at below cost of buying the ingredients from market. So why is there an argument about buying their ingredients for C2??

 

LOok at it this way: it's an XP FARM! The vast amount of XP gained making the essences, bars, base rings, polished gems and finished rings is HUGE. You want xp or cash? If you say cash, you're living in a dream world. The economy does not support a regular method of getting rich in crafting (as much as I wish it would).

[Bharain]

Antisocial hellspawners should be willing to pay the full cost for the rings if only for the initial crossing to c2. OK that's not much of a market but it's some

[Thordin]

As a noob crafter (I'm somewhere at bottom in top 200 ) I have to agree with top crafter. But if there's no profit (no need to be HUGE), motivation to make these rings is crippled. There should be at least some profit at all. (I would be satisfied even with 5gc per ring or such...)

[vwpro]

IMO if the charge for changing continents stayed at 1000 GC then the rings would be worthwhile. I've no idea why it changed, it was a valuable and accurate amount. How hard is it to make 1k?

 

how easy is it to spend 1k ?

[Mr.Mind]

I will never make any of these rings. There is more money in other items.

[Ghrae]

Really? More money in other items? What finished goods are producing a regular and consistent profit?

 

All I hear about are moans from all make-skill peoples how there is no market for them.

 

In fact, if anything it seems the harvesters are the real money makers. It's easier to sell 10k silver ore than it is to sell 5 Iron Plate.

[Cycloonx]

Really? More money in other items? What finished goods are producing a regular and consistent profit?

 

All I hear about are moans from all make-skill peoples how there is no market for them.

 

In fact, if anything it seems the harvesters are the real money makers. It's easier to sell 10k silver ore than it is to sell 5 Iron Plate.

 

Yep, harvesters get big money. The thing is that everyone can make his own stuff, the only boring things is harvesting the stuff. So When you could chose between paying 6-7gc each for a HE, or 4gc for 2 silver ores + mixing exp it's quite logical what most people will chose (since the mixing times are so low no one cares about mixing because it goes so fast).

 

There is no more real skill that makes you big money. Even alchemy is lowering, it gave me a great income in the past but is very low atm (I have loads of stocked up essences).

 

But for those rings I still think there is no market. Maybe just the cheapest ring will be made just to get to c2 fast and then use the teleportals.

 

[RallosZek]

LOok at it this way: it's an XP FARM! The vast amount of XP gained making the essences, bars, base rings, polished gems and finished rings is HUGE. You want xp or cash?

 

The point is, for the ring there's more alc exp, then crafting exp and the balance has gone lost. As well as the balance for market value / sell back value.

 

If you say cash, you're living in a dream world. The economy does not support a regular method of getting rich in crafting (as much as I wish it would).

 

I think el is the only game I know, where 'jewelers' are used as economic money sink. That doesn't come close to any history/lore/rl/rp whatever that I know.

 

Really? More money in other items? What finished goods are producing a regular and consistent profit?

 

Bars to npc.

 

All I hear about are moans from all make-skill peoples how there is no market for them.

People moan period. Simple math tells you, making these isn't economically viable - in fact, it'll bankrupt you pretty soon.

 

In fact, if anything it seems the harvesters are the real money makers. It's easier to sell 10k silver ore than it is to sell 5 Iron Plate.

So what does that tell you about the economics, when half products/ingrients are more profitable then end products? We'd never have computers, if it was more profitable to make transistors.

Sure - xp should have a price in a game where items don't matter in the end, but it should remain reasonable.

[skodarap]

I just wonder why all new rings need higher crafting lvls to make than disengagment ring, but consume less food?

[Drakos7]

You dont need as much food when you are pumping all those energy ess into them

Edited April 7, 2006 by Drakos7

[Thordin]

Well more food than disengagement rings? MORE FOOD THAN 36? You must be insane! When I make disengagement rings, I am already drinkink potions of feasting like an addict! Well I hope that somebody will notice this and adjust these formulae that these rings would be worth to make. This is indeed a bit ripoff.

[Jaha]

Really? More money in other items? What finished goods are producing a regular and consistent profit?

Bars to npc.

erm.... which bar is a profit to sell to npc?

[petersohn]

For NPC the best profit is selling blue lupine. But that's a bit boring because you are full so fast that you can't go AFK.

[RallosZek]

erm.... which bar is a profit to sell to npc?

All - when selling to npc, compare prices npc buy ingredients/half products for, not market value.

 

All bars are profitable market value as well, just not a big market.

Besides - you only have to get or make one ingredient yourself and make good profits at the cost of a few pickaxes/cooked meat.

[Ghrae]

[besides - you only have to get or make one ingredient yourself and make good profits at the cost of a few pickaxes/cooked meat.

 

Wait... let me get this straight... making the bars from scratch is good profit... but making C2 rings from scratch is impossible to do?

 

Either Rallos you agree that making things from scratch is profitable (in my arguement, it's also profitable in xp) or you are talking about manu in a crafting post (which doesn't belong here).

[Cycloonx]

Making things from scratch doesn't give a lot of profit though. You use like 2-3 feasting pots per ring, that's 33gc for a ring that cost like 70gc So you can make profit, but the profit is worthless, better go picking flowers ...

Edited April 8, 2006 by Cycloonx

[Ghrae]

C2 rings can be sold for 175gc at the NPC

[Cycloonx]

Oh didn't know that, that's good

[RallosZek]

[besides - you only have to get or make one ingredient yourself and make good profits at the cost of a few pickaxes/cooked meat.

 

Wait... let me get this straight... making the bars from scratch is good profit... but making C2 rings from scratch is impossible to do?

 

Either Rallos you agree that making things from scratch is profitable (in my arguement, it's also profitable in xp) or you are talking about manu in a crafting post (which doesn't belong here).

 

No, you're deleting context to support your argument, which otherwise can't be made. Re-read what I said.

 

[edit]

Did some calculations, will do more later, but here's one:

Titanium bar:

If you sell all the harvestable components to npc ('harvesting as a career'), you make 31.82 per bar.

Exp total, if you combine: 215

NPC buys bar at 40gc, profit: 8.18

 

PV ring:

205.15 for harvestable components to npc

Exp total, if you combine: 3505

NPC buys ring at 175gc, loss: 30.10

[/edit]

Edited April 10, 2006 by RallosZek

[skodarap]

 

PV ring:

205.15 for harvestable components to npc

Exp total, if you combine: 3505

NPC buys ring at 175gc, loss: 30.10

 

 

3.5k exp for only 30gc cost doesn't sound too bad for me

[molime]

3.5k exp for only 30gc cost doesn't sound too bad for me

 

Agreed, if that was *crafting* exp I'd be very happy. Then it would really be a matter of 'you want XP or cash', then it would be an exp farm - for crafters, and they're high-level rings.

 

However, that total of 3505 exp consists of 3320 alch exp and only 185 crafting exp. Sure, for alch and oa it's nice BUT: if you want alch or oa exp HEs are better. I'm not an alchemist, although I have a high alch level due to making the stuff I need myself. I'm a crafter! The roleplaying part is kinda forgotten here - even though I'm not exactly a hardcore roleplayer, this IS the 'role' I've chosen. And crafting already is a 'profession' that's not exactly recommended to start

 

For a disring the base crafting exp is 190 in total, against 395 alch exp - still more alch exp unfortunately but a lot less than with the Irilionrings.

 

A total of 185 crafting exp after a lot of preparation, after reaching a high level... while the base crafting exp you get for a disring is 190 - and the time to prepare ingredients is a lot less! For neither exp or gc these are good from a crafter's point of view. Both you can get more and faster in other ways. Right now it's only the fun of making something new and different for a change (but that fun doesn't last long compared to the time you spend in emerald and iron/silvermine ), and a matter of 'honour' as a topcrafter to be able to offer them.

 

(I'm gradually working on making some calculations, exp and costswise, but using notepad and a calculator I just do a bit of it at a time )

 

(edit: forgot something)

Edited April 11, 2006 by molime

[skodarap]

Ok i don't know the exact numbers as i'm not manuer, but isn't it the same in manufactoring? yes, some items give more manu exp (like serp for example gives 300) but there's also a lot more harv and alch exp in it than in crafting.

[Thordin]

Not in leather things. You BUY leather as well as threads (ok, maybe killing 1k of spiders will do).

But the point is obvious. Two thirds of XP, maybe more, from manufacturing/crafting go to alchemy skill. That is why they are so hard to train, otherwise, there would be plenty people with skill over 40, able to create any ring/weapon/armor.

What concerns me is that I am not motivated to create these rings, just because, I have no profit (even +1gc would satisfy me, really). But when you are losing gold as well as material, economy is falling apart. Some may say, that it is you choice: money or XP, but what is the point of creating something, if I know, I will lose money.

Not to mention that money used mainly in character developement. (investing back).

[Ghrae]

The idea of a MMORPG is interaction. If you take out that element, you have a single player game.

 

Everyone is right, skills like manufacturing and crafting require the use of other skills (alchemy, harvest, fighting if you want to kill 1000 spiders , etc). And in Eternal Lands we have an option: we can do all of that ourselves OR we can work with others.

 

Check out my stats... my alch sucks for someone with my levels. I farm out the alching to others. In trade they get the ingredients and I get to focus on other things that I enjoy.

 

So let's look at the profit per ring slightly differently. Let's look at it as a partial purchase from other players.

 

Ring of Isle of the Forgotten:

Buy silver ring from market (approx 75gc) each

Make your own polished sapphire

Harvest your own ruby

Make your own essences (they are fairly simple and low level).

Sell to NPC at 175gc. Cost to you: 75gc. Profit: 100gc.

 

Ring of Isle of the Forgotten:

Make your own silver ring

Make your own polished sapphire

Harvest your own ruby

Buy Energy Essence from market (approx 7.5 each): 38gc (I rounded up)

Buy Magic Essence from market (approx 6.5 each: 130gc

Sell to NPC at 175gc. Cost to you: 168gc. Profit: 7gc.

 

In short... we have an opportunity to make NEW rings... with BETTER base xp for making the finished ring... and the chance of profit.

 

At the price most teleport rings sell for on market, the only way they are profitable is if the crafters are making part of their ingredients as it is. So if they can continue making just part of the ingredients they need, it can still be profitable.

 

This game isn't suppose to be an easy way to fly up the levels and amass hordes of gold easily. It's suppose to be a challange. And it is. One that there is the ability for profit as I've explained above in two different ways.

[Rend]

Well said Ghrae, these new rings give crafters a faster way to level. Look at it that way instead of just the profit side.

 

Besides, soon crafters will be mega rich from enchanted weapons . Read -> http://eternal-lands.blogspot.com/