The Uselessness of Other Players

[Jevik]

First off, I want to be perfectly clear that this isn't a bash to other players, or the game design. It is meant as constructive criticism. I'd also like to make it clear that I really do think this game has a lot to offer, else why would I bother posting this, or play the game for that matter?

 

Let's talk about the basic game design of EL (as I see it). The game, simply, is not enjoyable to level up in. However, the game *is* enjoyable to gain new levels in. What I mean by this, is that it's fun to get new levels in stuff -- it's cool to be able to make that new potion, or cast that new spell, or fight that new monster.

 

However, the process of levelling up until you can hit that new content is horrendously boring. You don't notice it at first, because you hit the new content fairly quickly at the lower levels. Also, if you get bored of one stream (say combat), can switch to another (say manufacturing).

 

But around 30 or so, you hit a brick wall. Things slow *way* down. And then again at around 40-50, the pace of new content hits another brick wall. Let me rephrase that -- it slams balls-first into another brick wall. And you're stuck doing the boring process of levelling up, for weeks at a time, until you can get to new content.

 

And then at higher levels, you don't level up to get new stuff, you basically level up to be the best.

 

All MMORPG's face this problem. And the general solution that they have is that, when content fails, community picks up the slack. Unfortunately, for the most part, EL is designed to not have a community.

 

In fact, players are useless, or worse than useless in most cases. Hunting is the big example. It's far, far better to hunt on your own; it's not just that other players can't help you, but they in fact HURT you by taking spawns.

 

Other players are literally only useful for economy purposes. . . buying or selling you stuff to and from. Although this will change with guilds, as Entropy has mentioned.

 

Most games force player interdependancy right from basic game design, usually one of two ways. The first is by hard limitations: Class-based systems where a single character can only do a fraction of what's needed on their own. Sure, it's usually possible to get by on your own, but it's a hell of a lot harder and frsutrating.

 

Others go by a more soft method. You can do what you want, but the total amount of what you can do is capped, so it's usually far more worthwhile to specialize in one or two things and get others players to help you.

 

Here's the point where I cop out. I don't have a solution that will fit into the current game architecture. But I hope that the points raised will at least spark some thought on the matter.

 

Jevik

[duran]

and neither of the solutions fit the design filosofy of eternal lands unless im mistaken.

 

yes i see the problem, and no i have no solution right now (partly as im seeing two screens at the moment, if thist turns out readable, good)...

 

after 30 there is no content, and frankly i think entropy is a bit stuned at the speed some people got that high.

 

funny, this game have all the high points of ultima online in a way. but at the same time its heading into all the same pitfalls.

[Jevik]

and neither of the solutions fit the design filosofy of eternal lands unless im mistaken.

 

Exactly the problem. The best fit I can think of would be skill specializations at certain levels, and players who are above those levels could retroactively assign their exp to things.

 

Jevik

[rolan4]

Most games force player interdependancy right from basic game design, usually one of two ways. The first is by hard limitations: Class-based systems where a single character can only do a fraction of what's needed on their own. Sure, it's usually possible to get by on your own, but it's a hell of a lot harder and frsutrating.  

 

:arrow: The key-in-the-gold-mine quest NEEDS someone to assist. That fact should be more explicitly emphasized in the QUEST dialog. More quests along this line encourage bonds and friendships, and I think this teamwork thing is what we need more of. Yes, as the community grows and friendships grow into guilds, guilds grow into nations, wars will be fought - what more could you ask?

As for newbies? - if you like what you see in the early stages (monitor his stats: by clicking on his name at http://eternal-lands.solexine.fr/~radu/online.php), then you take him under your wing, teach and nurture him, and then recruit him into your guild or nation. That's what is (or should be)happening right now!

 

-------------------------------------------------------

as for leveling up:

The game, simply, is not enjoyable to level up in. However, the game *is* enjoyable to gain new levels in. What I mean by this, is that it's fun to get new levels in stuff -- it's cool to be able to make that new potion, or cast that new spell, or fight that new monster.  

 

However, the process of levelling up until you can hit that new content is horrendously boring. You don't notice it at first, because you hit the new content fairly quickly at the lower levels. Also, if you get bored of one stream (say combat), can switch to another (say manufacturing).  

....I couldn't agree more. You should be working for a purpose other than being better than the other guy by leveling up your powers. If you keep the number of guilds down to say 1 per hundred players, and develop the teamwork theme above, this game will really rock! I suspect that's what the 'church' groups in this game are intended to accomplish - but they are too secretive and sinister for my taste, and I dare say they haven't recruited too many players either. (excepting the one in VOD where they lock the door behind you - I chose death before dishonor on that one, and there was no-one around to pick up the pieces)

[duran]

im all for skill focusing but not as a non-return route, i will not see newbies leave as they selected the wrong focus and ended up with a unplayable character in theyre view. what they should be allowed to then is to take a step or two back (at a cost) and reevaluate where they want to go. mutch like the churtches today (alltho they realy need to give a bigger bonus in my view. and i dont like the fact that some of the priests areso hidden away that only realy high level chars can get at them)...

[Kasgoroth]

A short thought on point allocation, just to mention it: If you lvl-up in magic, you shouldn't get any points to allocate for STR or DEX only to WILL and INT. Because in some games I've played you had general LVL of experience and each time you lvl-ed up, regardless on what you did, you could allocate points where you wanted. I hope EL doesn't turn into something like this.

 

Besides that I still think that the idea to temporarily choosing classes and being allowed to change them anytime you like was by far the best till now. There might be penalties to changing classes, eg: you've choosen to be an alchemist and stay it for a week getting alchemy bonuses or being able to use special items (whatever). When you choose to change your class to a warrior (also while surving the god of alchemy who is adverse to the god of war), you get your lvl of alchemy degraded a bit (not to much, but you should feel the difference), must give up all your special items you were able to use while being an Alchemist and serving the respective god and you'll have to do a quest for the god of war to prove your intentions (nothing to hard, but it should be challenging). AND you won't be able to change your class again for the next week.

 

This way we could have a class system bringing more variety into the game and difference between players, but at the same time with no permanent restriction to one class. You can decide what you want to be and change your mind whenever you desire, if you are ready to pay the price.

 

It was just one of many suggestions we can make for that kind of system, you might think of better restrictions, etc. but in general it could work quite well.

[duran]

and i thought that was the plan for the gods but for some reason that didnt happen (atleast not yest)...

 

maybe we should hook items to gods so that only if you follow a god can you gain access to them...

 

one other thing to do is that you pay the gods a small sum to keep theyre favor (gaining some sort of bonus, either extra exp or higher chance of success in stuff you do or similar) that way we give the players something to burn money on

 

and the favors given to people giving gold (or maybe items) should be accessible even if your char isnt a declared worshiper of that god. but if you are a declared worhiper of a opposed god then no dice...

 

the task is to balance this out...

[Arafin]

Well, I can think of a way to limit the way that people after they hit certain levels try to be the best. MAke it to where you HAVE to choose classes. I mean you guys keep saying that clases ar a bad idea yet you keep starting more and more posts where their are no use for them.

 

Start with the basic 3 classes: Fighter, Mage, Adventurer

 

Fighter specializes in fighting, and manufacturing, and magic and summoning and alchemy are brought down in ercentages or you cant learn them at all (I think some p should be given, but if people keep posting nonsense then do it)

 

Mage specializes in magic an summoning and defense, other attributes llike manu be brought down, and their combat, attack is as well

 

Adventurer doesnt specialize in anything, and gets no bonuses or anything.

 

 

 

By doing that, eveyone can be happy, because then they can be mages and people ho dont want classes can just shut up and b an adventurer cause it has no class.

 

 

I was also playing another game a while back, and they had it to where when you start you start off as just a common person. As you gain more xp and such you become something new like:

 

lvl 0: commoner

lvl 50+: noble

 

And they also had classes where you could stay normal, or you could go through series of events in the game to become a fighter, where your stats are brought up in certain areas and others brought down.

 

For like the fighter, you start out fighting weak things, and the further you make it the stronger you become.

 

 

For this game I think you shouldnt lose xp for being a certain class but you ought to get extras in that:

 

This is what I propose:

 

You can join a class maybe enlist somehweres. Once you become one, you start gaining xp for everything you do that pertains to THAT CLASS. Then when you go back, you can...spend these points on things. Maybe for a fighter you can buy like +5 to your health or something.

 

This gives motivation to become a class, but doesnt mean you have to, and make a place for jut like adventurers where they can do the same so that way they arent losing anything really.

 

Fighters:

1000 points-+1 health

5000 points-+1000 xp to attack

10000 points-+5 health

15000 points-+5000 xp to maunfacturing

20000 points-+10 health

25000 points-+7500 xp to attack

 

Mages:

1000 points-+1 mana

5000 points-+1000 xp to defense

10000 points-+5 to mana

15000 points-+5000 to magic

20000 points-+10 mana

25000 points-+7500 xp to defense

 

Adventurer:

2000 points-+1 mana, +1 health

5000 points-+1000 xp to combat

10000 points-+2 mana, +2 health, 500 xp to combat

15000 points-+2500 xp to potion, +2500 xp to alchemy

20000 points-+5 mana, +5 health

25000 points-+7500 xp to combat

 

That way no one is getting jipped. Or better yet make it to where you dont have to choose a class but have the option to proclaim yourself with like a tag in front of you name with a F for fighter, M for mage, and nothing for anything.

 

So if you choose to be a mage and level up skills in magic and summoning, you get Mage points. Or when your defense goes up you get Mage points. Then if your attack goes up or you lvl up in manufacturing you get Fighter points. And if you level up in Alchemy or Combat or Potion, you get Adventurer points.

 

 

Not really fixing it, but if you got someone who is a mage, then they have leveld up in the mage abilities and more then likely have more mage points they have distributed. As for a fighter same thing. As for no proclaimation, they can be good anywhere.

 

Sounds good way to fix things, then your looking for someone low to hep them level a skill to join your guild so they can be good.

[Kerrighan]

I totally disagree, with all.

 

I play this game because i'm not forced to nothing. I have no class, no profession, no guild, no nation and no religion. And i like this way

 

I never colaborate, not request colaboration of nobody to solve a quest

( except for the information exchange ) And i like this way

 

I pertain to no group. my interest and the way i develop is dcided by me, and only me. no fucking GOD is going to tell me waht i should do. And I like this way

 

I'm not a top character, has no hight stats, not incredibly rich. And i like this way

 

I'm suficiently adult to no need a forced game plot. and suficiently clever to follow my own plot. And i Like it this way

 

I continue playing EL because i think it is a Game for adults ( weel some times i look the others behaivour and i doubt it), becuase i can play as i want without stupid limitations in honor of playability, interest and so on

 

I always thought that the big interest of EL is that because the whole concept ( and all that boringness that you're talking about) will make that all the teeneagers with the "I wanna be the topper-ultra-maxy-mega-hero"

don't came here.

 

I always expected that games evolves and people could do things other than established plots

 

I always expected that the actions of players could modify teh world, in the sense that changes become permanent.

 

I always expected that Ent could manage a way that things could be done inteligently, way that players can get into politics, become kings,etc without the use of the force ( which is way things usually happen) by using bribery, negotiation,torture, espionage.

 

But all the above proposals go in way of a more PvP world. Classes, weapon specializtion, guilds, powers granted by gods,etc

 

If all of any of this happens, this became another "Tibia-like" game, only looking a bit better on graphics side

[duran]

i think the idea is that if you dont wnat to you dont have to, problem is to keep it that way without unbalancing the game or make it boring for those that want to.

 

basicly im nor for nor against but i ones posted an idea that you could go for professions and when you quit the profession you retain the perks of the profession that you have gained so far. what those perks should be tho i dont know as they are way hard to unbalance in comparison to people that dont bother with them (i guess thats why entropy had the gods only give exp bonuses and not mutch else)...

[Kasgoroth]

What duran is suggesting could also work pretty good. You know, something in that direction has to be done.

 

@Kerrighan: your intentions are good, but you're thinking to much one-sided. Actually our opinions do not differ that much, I also prefer to have the freedom in choosing what to do, but you still need to separate characters from one another, NOT permanently... temporary. I totally disagree with any permanent limitations - there are enough games that do that. As it is now, from some point on in the game all players become the same, having the same stats, being able to do the same things and being nowhere special at all. IRL you can also choose a profession, then drop it and decide to do something else. And while you carry it out you're getting bonunses for certain skills/attributes etc. The goal of our suggestions is to make characters unique, if you can think of any better ways don't hesitate, share your thoughts with us.

 

Perhaps more skills would help, e.g. one skill to train for each weapon class (used in many games) and fighting strategies should differ from one weapon class to another. Like a dwarf with a Hammer does a lot more damage than someone with a normal longsword who is more agile and can dodge the attacks of the dwarf more often, thus constantly hitting the dwarf, but if the dwarf hits he hits him hard (I'm aware that Warhammers in EL have high + to damage and negative to hit, but I'm talking about the abilities of the characters themselves 'cause as it is now everyone will have the same basic and cross attributes in the end) . This is just an example for fighting, whereas I think that a new fighting system similar to what LEXIC has suggested would take EL to a higher lvl in gaming experience.

 

About the gods... well... I don't really like to serve a god, but on the other hand they give you considerable bonuses if you serve them (and you can stop serving a god anytime, you'll lose your bonunses though and will have to start from the beginning if you decide to serve him again), though the quests should be rethought, I mean killing 150 rabbits is not a challenge, only time consuming. Besides if you have enough money you can just buy the furs from other players. This example was for the god of war, for him I'd make a quest that would require killing a particular creature and getting some rare items, etc. but it should be balanced out in a way that even the strongest players have fun doing the quests.

 

phuuu...

[Kayliana]

...

Edited May 8, 2019 by Kayliana

[Kerrighan]

Kasgoroth, Kayliana: You're ture in part. Jevik, you too. Leveling is boring.

 

After playing tabletop RPG's for years i found that after you reach some level and some richness, NO GAME offers anything. It's up to you, the player, to seek something interesting to do. Not in the way of beign the better, nor beign rich. Something more..... "novelistic". Perhaps something that cannot be reflected by the stats

 

Do you Never though " what if i could kill Trik to thieve his Potion Maker Cape? Never Thought " Ok some body should take the rulership of portland to keep this damned goblins out. Never imagined " waht if i get the boat, travel to south and find a new continent ? That's the kind of things i mean. leave your step on earth. and when you leave the game. everybody can rememeber you as legendary because a mountain, a valley, a city or a nation have your name

 

Respect to nobility it's ok. but as you planned, everybody can got it. I see no diference with any of the other statswith enough time, the max 100 player allowed per server will became nobles

 

ONe small solution to this is that players should be able to create some kind of special item. Ie: While manufacturing a sword, there should be a small random chance of "discovering" a new type, a bit diferent of the standard. This type is only known by the player who discovered it. And only he can teach you to build it up. Something "Kasgoroth's Titanium goblinkiller sword", which is a titanium short sword with a +1 hit and +1 damage to kill goblins. Simply introduce a "teaching skill", and kasgoroth can train other's to build "HIS" sword.Same can be applied to any manufacturable item, spell or potion in the game. And remeber. totally random, with independence of level. We can easily end with hundreds of sword types without too much effort on server side. And in fact there's no need for a new graphic for it. An "aprraisal" or "Evaluate" icon could do the job

 

REAL Magic can also help because it can be very creative. But anyway, all we now Ent didn't like too much magic so better don't loose time talking about it.

 

Kayliana: Nobles are ok but i disagree in one thing. WE are not commoners. We are the high class. We are adventures. WE kill goblins.WE kill trolls. Ever imagined Flora killing a goblin?. WE are the Elite. NPC's are commoners. They are the crowd. WE are here to do important things, to rule the world. Thats' why i don't understand that flora has a HOUSE AND A SHOP and Jevic has no private room where sleep or where leave his things

[Arafin]

I think people are to into Diablos game. Think outside the box.

 

So you dont like classes fine dont have to be a class.

 

Maybe make a Secret of Mana approach where if you train with a certain weapon you get xp for that type of weapon. Meaning you use a sword you get sword xp only.

 

What you guys are asking is a lot. As for multiple killing of creatures...GREAT IDEA. HOWEVER, people will want it to be added to the killing of players which I HATE. No one person should be teamed like monsters could be its just not ethical. A group of 3 level 50+ players could take out every player on the map quickly fighting at same time.

 

Maybe make a comman such as #join (player name). That way if you are fighting crearures, the xp is equally split between the two players, and if you get to far apart the junction is broke after 15 seconds. So if you want to team to kill say a.....Cyclops, 10 people can take turns running then attacking and after the creature is killed, you get 50% of the actual xp reguardless of the amount of players OR just equally split the xp between the 10.

 

I kinda do ike the noble thing, but it shouldnt be based on levels of combat itd have to be balanced, thats why the game had CLASSES.

 

If you were a fighter, your level in fighting had to do more with your rank then not. Then Mages more of magic. Other classes had certain onesa as well.

 

Then they ranked people who CHOSE TO BE CLASSLESS based on all attibutes.

 

Simple, make places only those whove reached that rank can go in out.

 

 

And I think churches need to be made, and religions be made lol, might make game more interesing, and these churches provide nothing but your nam in a book at the altar lol. Nothing else. Just something fun to do lol.

[duran]

its not to hard to code the game so that it allow for more then one person attacking a monster while not allowing it towards chars in PK maps.

 

as for the rest, i dont follow your line of thinking as splitting exp isnt a problem as you get exp pr attack you or the monster does (thats why there are both an attack and defense skill) so unless you and your partner in killing is way of you will get about the same exp. this is why i asked for a defense only and attract attacks option so that high level chars could attract the attention of a monster and keep blocking it while the lower level person trained on him.

 

as for nobles, we allready have that with guilds damn it. the guild master is more or less a noble!

 

personaly im more for a final fantasy 5 way in that you level a profession and that way get access to stuff that you can do later on even if you change to a diffrent profession. the problem here is to give all the professions interesting abilitys so that we all dont walk down the same paths (alltho that will happen anyways as we are all powergamers at heart).

 

as for the selection of weapons, right now only swords have a nice collection to select from. the others are just there in a token pressence. that is why you see me walking around with a staff, i like to use stuff that are outside the norm

 

give the game time. entropy is working on the technical aspects first and then the game aspects last as its the tech that makes the game flow.

[Kasgoroth]

Maybe make a Secret of Mana approach where if you train with a certain weapon you get xp for that type of weapon.  Meaning you use a sword you get sword xp only.

- I have already suggested that somewhere.

 

Simple, make places only those whove reached that rank can go in out.

- I disagree, ppl should at least be able to go everywhere they want, that's called freedom of movement. With time they will get used to the world and know which maps are PK and which aren't.

 

As for multiple killing of players, I think it definitely should be allowed in a similar way MoonShadow suggested it here: Fighting formula

 

-------

 

@Kerrighan: I like the idea of letting players manufacture their own unique items, in fact I've already suggested that somewhere in the forum - I just can't find the thread anymore

But your idea is even better (improved), I haven't thought about teaching skills to other players.... I hope Ent consideres it for future development.

[Arafin]

Yeah freedom is good to have, but in RL can you go ANYWHERE you want. heck now you cant.

 

In every RPG, there are places you cant go. As this game is still in beta I am not really able to say what I like and dislike because I dont know what it will hav or wont have.

 

But Duran I understand it might not take much coding thats not what I said. What I said is if you add it to the creatures people iwll complain about it not being on players as well.

[duran]

IRL there are guards and fences where you cant go (alltho in theory you can go anywhere).

 

people complain all the time, they want to be able to kill god while not looseing anything when dieing (where is the challange in that?), basicly all players wants to be gods. problem is that being god is a lot of effort!

 

im happy walking about as i am, and if you check my stats im nowhere near godlike, i have not botherd powergameing and in fact i have seen people that have created theyre char less then a month ago that have better levels then i have. the question is what you want from the game.

[ShadowKnight]

EL faces the same hurdle as any other RPG. I think the problem isn't that we need classes or anything, I just think that what skills we choose to raise should affect how the game plays. In a way we still have classes, just without the title. You aren't a fighter because you use a sword and are as dumb as a rock. That's a stereotype. You're a fighter because you're specialty is killing stuff.

What I think is the problem is the one that plagues the entire genre. There is no variety, and no action to make up for the lack of variety. Sure, it's nice being able to kill a gargoyle instead of a goblin, but really all you are doing is killing a really strong goblin with a new model. Being a mage yields no difference in gameplay as opposed to being a fighter. For this, we should take a good long look at morrowind, because that is the perfect model of a game that is both open-ended and has unique experiences.

Say you want to get the treasure in the castle. The fighter kills everything then strolls out. The mage has to pick the most effective spell while conserving mana. The theif has to exploit secret ways to get in. Better yet, the fighter/mage paralyzes the guards then kills them. The fighter/theif silently backstabs guards and takes them out. The mage/theif uses a jump spell to scale the castle walls or uses an invisibility spell. See, each person gets the job done in a unique and fun way, without restricted classes.

However, here's the part that can only be solved by good game design. There has to be a reason to level up. There should be some distinguishing feature between lvl 1 and lvl 99, and not just that you can kill bigger, uglier things. However, if you find a solution to that age old problem, let me know.

[rebootedrock]

hmm a distinguishing feature? how about anyone with mage in them gets an aura. the auras could look diff colors and depending on certain graphics would allow you to look different. heck you could even design your own aura by using prefab options

like

*note these would all have diff colors

the classic electron around atom thing

cloud of gas

electricity

mist/fog(lighter than cloud)

glow

bright glow

energy coming off you in waves(like yu yu hakusho)

Classic DBZ supersajin

small lights zooming off you

~~~~~

now to not slow down the server, you could...

have it drain mana

have an option to conserve energy(stops mana loss rate)

option to disable them(for low fps'ers)

~~~~~~~

the uses of them could include different things such as:

*note: upon choosing your aura you can choose ONE and then at say lv 30 2 bonuses and so on.

mana regen

exp bonuses

health regen

chance to critical hit

chance to dodge

ability to run away anytime

harv cap boosted by 50

ability to have the effects of a cape(ONLY ONE EVER)

~~

i think this 0wns so im going to make a post on it...

shadow knight theres your answer :wink:

[Guthix]

Morrowind is a great game, but there really isnt THAT much of a difference between the classes in it, since for the most part they just affect the skills that you can lvl up to 100 in all of them eventually anyway. It doesn't really have unique ways of doing things--you can buy any spell, backstab anyone or whatever no matter what your class, race or birthsign. In a lot of ways morrowind is just a "get all your stats up to 100 and pwn everything" kind of game just like all the mmorpgs are, so we really wouldnt accomplish any great new things for the mmorpg genre by modeling el after it.

[ShadowKnight]

You're taking the wrong parts out of my analogy. I just think it is a game which manages to have almost limitless replay value without classes which limit what you can do with any one character. First of all, I would like to see you get all of your stats maxed in this game. I was just saying that it is great because each area of expertise yields different experiences. Fighting keeps you alive, but its uses are limited once everything is dead. Magic is a great utility to have, but you have to ration it or stay stacked up on potions. Not only that, its uses in combat are for support only, as I often ran out of magic before I could charcoal the bad things. Stealth is a great way to stay alive, and lockpicking doors and chests ain't bad either, but there isn't always a way around killing the bad guys. See, it manages to be balanced and yet different. I'm not saying we should rip it off, just take a few notes.

And I am also saying that this game needs to change as you grow stronger. Monotony is this games worst enemy. However, I can only give general ideas, most of which have already been said before, as to how to solve that problem, More, spells, weapon variety...you know the drill.

[Kerrighan]

Well. Being certain that adding skills/spells isn't always the best solutions, i Think adding new types of skills could be

 

Basically, now the game it's full of "previsisble result" skills. When you combat against a fox you can know if you win or loose before starting a combat ( ie for level 17/17/17 i know i always win a combat with all the foxes) it's ok for some things like combat but should be this way for some other skills

 

Waht about you're able to negotiate the price of things with shop Npc's? Define a "negotiate skill" wich depends on randomnes ( as every other), level ( as every other) but on market state too. Then the chararcters has the skill to negotiate but THE PLAYER should have the inteligence to know WHEN to sell/buy to get the best price

 

Another one. Bribery. should'nt be fun to be able to bribe a Priest so the quest for a god could be easy, paying him for iit?

 

 

What about "seduction", viewed as a kind of "natural involuntary unnoticed bribery"

 

The fact about this kind of abilities it's that they are relativeley simple to implement in relation to NPC's but they are damned dificult to get on use on Players. That's what make very dificult that a RPG becomes real. Other players only respect money or power, but never are prone to bribery or seduction tries. There are ways to force them a bit. but i can see a lot of people whining because "my character don'tdo what i want", forgeting that in a true RPG. no character do waht player wants. The charactaers should do what the characters want.

 

That's why MMORPGS seem all so unrealistic. In any story on a fantasy medieval setting, no character stay mining for more than a month only for getting " higher mining level". at most they get tired, boredand leave after at most 3 days

[Guest theghost19]

I think Kerrighan got the point about RPGs. At a certain lvl you have to do other things than fighting monsters or harvesting. Maybe you can kill 10 gobs with the clap of your hands at lvl 99 but it's boring if you're doing that every day. The mage just makes a short move with his left hand and the problem is solved. Wow! But you get bored, doing it over and over again. That's why a good story has an end! It may be an open end so the reader has to make up his mind about what could happen afterwards but it has an end! Maybe you saved the world or did whatever you had to do to finish the game but you have come to an end and you're glad that you finally did it.

 

It's so much more interesting if you know that someday you're finished and you just want to get a little bit further.... (wondering why the sun is still shining outside just before you realize that it's early in the morning and you have been playing for a couple of hours). The problem is there is no end in EL. You can just go on harvesting and lvl up. It's only limited by the maximum of exp that can be handled by the program.

 

I think player characters should have some sort of ageing and they die or fade out at the end. Maybe leaving some useful things to other players. No, I don't mean the underworld! I mean that they're gone forever and the player has to start all over again with a new character.

 

Another thing is that there is no point of no return. That's not realistic. Everyday in your life you have to make a decision what to do next and it has some consequences on what's going on in your life. But you can't go back. Time goes by and you have to cope with it. There should be some point of no return in EL. Let the NPCs react on what you do, e.g. if you talk to Garis first instead of Faris there should be a difference in game play. This is just an example but it would make the game more realistic and it would add a replay factor. If you start all over again there is no real change in gameplay. You're maybe faster on leveling up so you're getting bored even faster than the first time. I'm fond of the game Deus Ex where a player could decide what powerups to use, how to get into a building or whether to kill someone or talk to him first and (nearly) everything you did had some consequences on the game play.

 

I know EL is not like Deus Ex. It's just another example of gameplay and you can't add a complex story just within a few days. There are other things that have to be done prior to this.

 

While writing I just came up with another idea of adding a replay factor to the game. Create different worlds and make them a sort of add-on to the game. If you finished the first part you can go on playing the second and so on. Whether you'll have to start all over again on the next part is up to the game designers.

 

Bottom line:

- There should be a goal for the game and a replay factor (e.g. different choices on how to do the quests or different quests depending on what you do, add-ons for the people who have finished the first part, etc.)

- Finish the game code first and add the story and stuff when the base is finished.

 

Greetz,

 

TheGhost19

[Kasgoroth]

@theghost19: A couple of good rudiments IMHO, but they don't really fit in here. An MMORPG is a constantly evolving world adding the element of conclusive death would ruin EL for most players since only few would find the will to start over again. You can't make it "real-life", there are so many aspects that are different. The idea itself is not that bad, just recently I've read somewhere about a game that implemented that feature, but it doesn't fit into EL and you should concetrate on improving EL (not ask for a completely different concept) when you make a suggestion FOR EL.

 

Concerning points of no return in EL and your example with Garis - this has nothing to do with the gameplay-system of EL, you don't need to change anything within the gameplay to make a good quest. If you want non-linear quests, then you could write one and send it to the appropriate staff member (Slayton, who is one of the Questwriters for EL) or just wait until someone else does it and hope that the quest turns out to be interesting. We need more challenging quests, but that's up to the Questwriters...

 

 

 

@Kerrighan: basically I like the ideas, would be fun if some of them get implemented, BUT I don't agree with you saying: "...it's ok for some things like combat but should be this way for some other skills...", because it isn't ok. Combat makes out a big portion of the gameplay and it definitely has to be improved the way some of us suggested it.