Mass Production ?

[Cycloonx]

I want to start a discussion here about mass production and the negative affects of it on the market

 

I don't really know how to start but let's go:

 

I was talking to TheVoice today in gm about the cooldown and mass production, we both say the cooldown hasn't slowed us down but even made it faster to get stuff! The biggest reason is because of the mixing time that is gone (maybe the ants took it? ). We also think mass production is caused by the exp system, surely for manu items, for the other skills it isn't a real problem (like for essences etc). You have to make a lot of manu items to level up, no one makes 100.. shields, chains, swords for fun (yeah maybe some weirdos ) but they all just do it too level up, and this hurts the market prices

 

So we thought about a new system It's like this: Throw the exp of manu-ing away, manuing should be based on long manu times and only low amount of items to level up. Well, not really level up, we see it like this:

 

When you start with manuing you will only be able to make the easiest things, when you want to make something you need to go to a manu place (like in votd) to make it, the mixing times should be at least like 2-3 days (i'm not sure you should be online the whole time). When you made like 5 items (this number can be tweaked) you will be able to make the next weapon in row. So it will still take some time to be able to make a plate and high lvl items and the market will not be flooded by manu items (because I think manu items really flood the market atm). You could also let people pay a fee to the manu place to use it. And maybe people will buy again stuff, because when you only can make 1 shield/2-3 days, you will need the help of other people to get more shields when you break like 1-2 shields a day!

 

I hope I explained my thoughts well, and maybe entropy can get new ideas of this

[Kala]

Great idea, but this really only works for people who are devoting their lives to manufacturing, and so when people want to make 1 or 2 steel shields to last them for a while, they'll have to take a few days off from whatever else they may be doing.

 

I'm all for the idea, but I know they'll complain endlessly about it, just like they did with the cooldown.

[Cycloonx]

But I don't think you should stay for 2-3 days in the manu place... You should be able to do other things meanwhile, but let's say, the manu place would ask ingreds (like bars, coal, fe etc) at certain times so you need to interupt your training on other skills ...

[Kala]

Well that would make no sense, making a sword while you're not there...

 

I liked Roja's system of making multiple things for one sword and having to actually go somewhere and go through a process. Not sure where that thread is, though...

[Cycloonx]

Maybe some manufacturing people there could make it ... or we can change the time to 5-6 hours, but you will need to do a lot of things so it will not get boring, see it like a mini game to make it.

[Kedan]

I think your times are abit long when you think the most a shield is every going to be worth is like 2k and that isn't really much for 3 days work lol. but you have the right idea.

 

I was thinking more like a shield takes an hour to make, but this isn't all in one go, you would have to make different parts of the shield all of which take 1-5 minutes and gives you like 1k exp. that way on higher levels when you need 100k exp to level up that will only be like 8 shields but would still take you 8 hours to make, and people could make selling the shields for 1k-2kgc, the problem is thinking of what these little bits could be, it would normally be bars but the problem with bars is they give you alch exp, so you would need to change the whole system or make something from the bars but befor the shields.

 

Also an idea i saw posted a while ago was to have to maintain a fire at a certain heat while making the armour and weapons, and this would give people something to do while making the items so they cant go afk and dont get bored, although it would have to be abit more than just added coal to a fire because that would get boring quite fast

[Cycloonx]

You can make the thing where you hold the shield, the gold ring on it ... euh melting the bars, euh ... Maybe with a lot of imagination you can find 5-10 steps to do

[Learner]

Help the ants get the raw materials you need, and you might be surprised at what they will make! They are slowly starting to level in both alch & manu!

[Cycloonx]

I was also thinking about this: When someone dies at a monster, the monster should take the bag and wear the armor (like the ants do) so you need to kill that monster to get your stuff back and it should only drop 50% of his stuff like normal players do. This could also be a good outflow for items ...

[Tuver]

I have to agree that the reason the market suffers isn't so much things are easy to make as people need to make lots of them to get their level. yesterday alone I made 10 steel chain mails. Did I do it because I needed 10 set of chain mail, no; Did I do it for the money, not I sell maybe 2 a day if that. I did it for the xp and the steel chain mail was a bioproduct of my quest for xp. The worse part in this story is I didn't get all the much xp from the chain mail even with the manu god rank 5 and rationity of 13, so I'll probaby have to make 100 more before I get a level.

Edited December 25, 2005 by Tuver

[Cycloonx]

I have to agree that the reason the market suffers isn't so much things are easy to make as people need to make lots of them to get their level. yesterday alone I made 10 steel chain mails. Did I do it because I needed 10 set of chain mail, no; Did I do it for the money, not I sell maybe 2 a day if that. I did it for the xp and the steel chain mail was a bioproduct of my quest for xp. The worse part in this story is I didn't get all the much xp from the chain mail even with the manu god rank 5 and rationity of 13, so I'll probaby have to make 100 more before I get a level.

 

Yes that's exactly what I mean, mass production is only caused by the exp system, and I don't think cooldown will really help it

[Roja]

Soon we'll be adding a lot more items to the game: think like a new item per level. The exp will be like a ladder climb so you won't have to make 3000 leather pants for 20 levels. Instead you'd make the items at each lvl.

[Jaha]

Soon we'll be adding a lot more items to the game: think like a new item per level. The exp will be like a ladder climb so you won't have to make 3000 leather pants for 20 levels. Instead you'd make the items at each lvl.

eek.... How will this affect the number of books? I cant speak for others, but I have enough trouble as it is buying the books I need....

[Cycloonx]

Soon we'll be adding a lot more items to the game: think like a new item per level. The exp will be like a ladder climb so you won't have to make 3000 leather pants for 20 levels. Instead you'd make the items at each lvl.

eek.... How will this affect the number of books? I cant speak for others, but I have enough trouble as it is buying the books I need....

 

I read all books, but it was very expensive and I was lucky I read a lot of them when they were cheap

[MoJo]

It would be nice for the game to become more realistic big time. I like the manu idea, were you have to go to a manu place wait a few hours (days seem to be a bit much) and then it would be made. This would make swords and other equipment go up in price.

:EDIT:

Another thing that would be pretty sweet, is design. If you could put designs on you shield, sword what ever.

Edited December 25, 2005 by MoJo

[bkc56]

The exp will be like a ladder climb so you won't have to make 3000 leather pants for 20 levels. Instead you'd make the items at each lvl.

One point on this: people don't stay with pants because of a lack of choices, they stay because they're easier/cheaper or more experience per hour of work than the better items.

 

A shield may give you more exp per item, but it takes SO much time to make the bars and essence that it's easier to just buy some leather and thread and make more pants.

 

Adding more items in the ladder will be really cool but it won't solve the basic "problem" that people will figure out what works best for experience and make just those items. The other items will be made based on need or market value.

[heu]

I don't think mass production affects the market so hard... Making "good" stuff for exp is not very smart... it's expensive and doesn't give you much exp... the real mass production is with pants and helms... well, there isn't much space for it in the market... so I'm sure that most people who make it, sells them to the NPC.

 

I think the real problem is the EFE... they are too cheap. Maybe because they are monster drops...

 

*I like the idea of the design*

[Ice]

I have to agree that the reason the market suffers isn't so much things are easy to make as people need to make lots of them to get their level. yesterday alone I made 10 steel chain mails. Did I do it because I needed 10 set of chain mail, no; Did I do it for the money, not I sell maybe 2 a day if that. I did it for the xp and the steel chain mail was a bioproduct of my quest for xp. The worse part in this story is I didn't get all the much xp from the chain mail even with the manu god rank 5 and rationity of 13, so I'll probaby have to make 100 more before I get a level.

 

It don't matter how many of an item ppl need to make..... well maybe to some extent, but for the most part ppl are competitive with each other. If you increase exp with out increased manu time, ppl will just have higher skill levels. At least thats what I believe!

[Guest skaar]

Soon we'll be adding a lot more items to the game: think like a new item per level. The exp will be like a ladder climb so you won't have to make 3000 leather pants for 20 levels. Instead you'd make the items at each lvl.

 

well, till yet all you can do to bring up your manu lvl was to make pants, i suggested it many times that trik should buy steel weapons, but the only answer was that that will ruin the market ( which market, no one bought that crap - thats next point, noobs with serps, jooo, who the f..k wants a s2e? ) and you need too many ingreets to make them to let them poof in a bag and they exp was a joke for that failing amount. there was nothing other to lvl up than pants and only making new item won't solve the problem. make trik buying all produced stuff (at least to a fair price) and balance the xp/ingreets for manuing.

 

PS: made more pants for lower lvls.

[Guest stalag]

Lets put it simple, mass production dosen't affect economy...its clear?

By the contrary it helps economy...ok ?

I've never seen an healthy economy without mass production but thats prolly me that lives in the real world...

 

The fundamental problem here is lack of players, thats right, every healthy economy must have an growing consumer base and EL community is shallow.

 

People always are suggestion to put the game harder, it makes me laugh, if we look at the top 50 is more steadly then a rock, which means the game as it is now isn't easy at all.

 

Whats the problem in making 1k of pants? It dosent sold ? of course not...

 

 

1 - Low number of players

2 - low number of jobs - almost everyone has pp in all possible activities so why buy if we can make it?

 

"I dont sell my iron plates" - its common to read this and of course not...

 

1 - they are expensive, yes expensive, for the common player, the kind of player that is the most on El the kind of player that play an hour per day at most and the kind of player that won't waste 14k on it ever.

 

2 - i waste ? some says...sure they do.... to keep it getting dust in storage because it breaks easily if its used in combat.-..so storage is the place ti have it

 

3 - i use? of course u do...the pk player...the rich ones but yes they are a minority so minority that after a week play we alredy knows their names.

 

4 - the same applays for greaves, cuisses, serps etc etc etc

 

So the problem isnt mass production and cooldwoen didnt fix it not it will ever...ok?

 

"Soon we'll be adding a lot more items to the game: think like a new item per level. The exp will be like a ladder climb so you won't have to make 3000 leather pants for 20 levels. Instead you'd make the items at each lvl."

 

new items great ! but if they are too expensive or breakl to easily won't change a thing in the real game expect for a minority of players. And we will continue to do 3000 pants becasue :

 

1 - is fun to do mass production!

 

2 - if it takes hard ings or takes too long to produce 1 item...except a few nerds no one will do it becasuse .....we cannot forget the mean reason for El.... is to have fun after a full time jobm after put kids on bed etc,..... ok?

 

 

So lack pf players, lack of jobs, high breakls probability of items don't help.

 

Why iron swords are so demand and players are willing to buy them..cuz they are in a quest to god mortos...this is the way to go....

 

why serps dont sell....cuz are expensive, serve only in pk, or to show off....

 

Finally who fights monsters with full armour and serp?? no one...so no market...

[Cycloonx]

Mass production is surely bad for the economy, you say it yourself, the amount of players stay the same, but there are too much items in the game. When the number of player don't get up, the only thing you can try to do is getting the number of items down. And I surely think that is the easiest thing, or we need someone who is good in advertising ...

[MagpieLee]

I thought one of the reasons why the Cooldown was implemented was to dilute the amount of things on the market, its done almost the opposite lol. The only problem is keeping up with the ingreds which runs out quicker then ever.

Anyway - I want to know more about these new items..

[Roja]

-Books, I dont know if they'll be affected at all or what yet.

 

-Everything will be balanced out more too remember.

[Mr.Mind]

Quit bitching. They're working on it.

[Cycloonx]

Quit bitching. They're working on it.

 

My posts aren't made to be bitching but to show what is really going wrong on the market so the devs can work on it and make the game much better than it is already

 

Without feedback they get nowhere