Cooldown log

[Infamous]

my experience from Pk with cooldown = awfull ;/

dis rings only have a use when you fight 1 person without any other player near you.

with more people (with one stronger then you) then the best strategy is to just let urself die, sure you can dis from one but then the other would catch you and so on till you run out of dis rings or restores and die.

restoring vs someone stronger is useless cause Sr's have a long cooldown so you can restore a couple of times, but then you run out of mana and your Sr's are cooling down.. (i had that this morning XD)

 

my opinion = cooldowns are for strategy games or huge mmorpgs like warcraft/guildwars where it doesn't really matter cuz you don't die there easily (cause of the huge amount of material points/hit points you have there)

here you have low material points so a few hits and you need to restore.

for example you get hit then you need to restore mana runs up, you use Sr and then need restore again + Sr but the sr is cooling down so you can't do anything but die and end up in hell.

 

another example: Toomass/Matess and me were in the arena, xanter comes into the sandy area and attacks me. i diss and toomass attacks him they fight for a while and eventually xanter disses, matess catches him they fight and xanter disses again then toomass gets him again, they fight and xanter gives up and lets himself die..

normally he would keep on fighting and eventually diss from both and then run but that is not possible with the cooldown.

 

i got this conclusion in one day, don't need a whole month to get a conclusion cuz the fighting won't change in the rest of the month

 

Edit: btw not ment to bitch, but just giving my experiences with the cooldown and opinion

ya what xanter say's in a fight you have nothing else to do then watch ur health go down and wait for the counters till you die

Edited December 9, 2005 by Hardcore

[ttlanhil]

Perhaps it might be better to reduce significantly the food countdown and increase the contdown for manufacturing items so they are more closely matched

but then we're going back to the increased manu delays which have been suggested before, and were reected because it doesn't add any interest or challenge to the game, and makes it take longet to make stuff. this is both boring and more likely to make people want to macro.

In my opinion it would be a good idea to compensate people for this extra work required in alchemy/crafting/manufacturing/potion makeing by ajusting the experience curves so it is easyer to gain levels. One of the percieved problems with the economy is there is too much mass production haveing a countdown system solves this by makeing it far slower to make items and therfore mass produce them but if you ajust the experience gained or ajust the curves so you require less experience there will not be as much of a need to mass produce these items. if implemented correctly it should allow people to spend an equivelent ammount of time gaining levels than before ths countdown system but removeing mass production of items,

originally cooldown was going to come with an increase in XP gains per item made, which would serve mostly the same purpose. and had that happened, I suspect cooldown would have been better accepted since players can still gain levels at a similar pace, just with less item flood (though you'd need to adust food requirements for stuff like HE, which has a strong market but uses large amounts of food)

 

 

It appeared that the veg now had a faster cooldown time tied to the feast pot timer.

correct. the 'food' category countdown comes from the item you eat, then all other items in that category gain the same cooldown period

I'm not really clear how this is supposed to work.I had thought different cooldown times I could eat a veg then opt to use a potion,then switch again as items became available for use again.If i'm wrong in my observation ,then sorry for the post.

from what I read before, you should be able to eat a veggie, then a potion of feasting, and they'd have seperate cooldown cycles. that hasn't happened, though that might be a bug

 

 

now for what I've noticed.

 

being on the forums is a problem. previously I could regularly go on forums, check for new posts, add replies, then go back and eat a couple fruit and get back to work. that's not an option anymore.

same goes with any dev work; either I go offline, regularly alt+tab back to eat, or have to wait a while before I can go back to work in-game

 

In my experience, HE is the best seller around. I could take 10K HE to market channel and have it sold to 1-3 people in well under a minute (well, buyers found, anyway, delivery time not counting... and the fact that there was so much HE being made isn't a problem, because there was a market for it).

now, HE is a lot slower to make, and I suspect many people who made money on HE will stop. granted, this almost forces people to buy from mage shop, so you now have more of a money sink, but I don't like that.

in alch, the best option is now FE. they don't take much food to make, and are fast, so you can still level with them. the problem is that you no have more of a flood of low level items on market

 

There is the client-side bug (when the drivers implement OpenGL 1.3 and earlier, apparently) where the cooldown colour is not turned off for subsequent items. This is a big problem, because it makes people think the rest of their items, including what they wear, is under cooldown. This was a known problem before the cooldown went onto live server, but was regarded as a minor problem. To those who don't know what's going on, it's not minor. To those who know what's going on it's just annoying.

I really don't like this bug.

 

fighting is easier.

despite the protestations of the PKers who can no longer use a few dozen rings in a fight, this change benefits the fighter. and yes this is only for those fighting animals and monsters. it's harsher on the PKer, but their opponent suffers the same.

Those fighting monsters at an appropriate level won't have much trouble from the cooldown; if they need to use potions that often then they're fighting above their level.

granted, the lessened demand for rings, potions, HE, etc isn't so good, but that's on the manu-ers, not the fighters. (and my opinion on things that make fighting a more attractive option in this game is probably known)

 

That all said... I know it's the long-term effects that matter more. I'll continue to try it out, try to adust, and reserve final judgement until the month is up and the effects on the economy are seen

 

a couple of suggestions though:

power saving could reduce the cooldown a bit. 20-25% perhaps. and power hungry can increase it (yeah, yeah, but I have it too, so don't jump at me). currently PH is about 2.5 free PP by my reckoning... to someone like me who spends (or spent) a lot of time manu-ing, what's 2 more food per minute when you use(d) hundreds per minute making rings?

 

as above with the forum thing... some way to stop losing food when AFK would be nice. I'll go back to the old suggestions about moving to a void of some sort... you can chat, but that's all. no healing, no magic, no manu, no food loss. give it the same timeout as going offline near monsters and such and it can't be abused like that

 

proficiency with a skill. if you're more talented at something, it's easier for you... this could translate into less of a cooldown issue for those who are expert at what they do. yes, making the cooldown dependant on your actions would be hard... but adusting the food used shouldn't be. if you have an alch level of 100 (and yes, I know no-one does), should making an HE take as much effort as someone (successfully) making one at level 20? you don't have to make it take less time, ust a bit less food, and there will be some benefit to people with higher levels... and really, if you have alch 50 or 100, what's the difference now? a small reduction in fails is about it

[petersohn]

About BBQ:

 

Now that it came to my knowledge that cooked meat have a lower cooldown than other kinds of food, I'd like to try and make my HE's eating a nice BBQ. As such, could the various fireplaces around the maps, like the one in Morcraven, be activated? I only know of 2 active ones: the beam, and the one near Brogan, in Portland.

 

Thank you

 

EDIT: spelling

 

There is one in Evergreen Forest and one near DP storage also (I imagine everyone cooking meat at this one).

[crus]

Hardcore made a good point..

An average EL player (fighter/PKer) has way 2 little health for such a big cooldown time(s)...

[Entropy]

There are two new items (not yet avaiable) that will deal with some of the problems.

[petersohn]

I think the big pro of the cooldowns is that there is a use now for the cooked meat and the feasting pots. (LOL, I'm starting to like it. )

[jamincollins]

Through discussions in game I've manged to figure out solutions to all problems I've encountered with Cool Down so far. My potion manufacturing and other activities are not negatively effected in any way.

[Infamous]

Hardcore made a good point..

An average EL player (fighter/PKer) has way 2 little health for such a big cooldown time(s)...

 

xanter has 165 health and he had 2 little health for the cooldown too

[burnout]

Ok I have been playing EL for over a year now, just after the big crash (glad I wan't here for that ) and have loved this game ever since I started. I think the cooldown needs ALOT of adjusting before it can be attractive to newer players though. I have worked myself to the top 50 of 4 different skills and almost to a 5th, but when I heard of the of the cooldown I started to prepare for the worst. Made thusands upon thousands of HE's, and just as many SR's, as well as feasting pots. So it doesn't hurt to bad. But, to be completely honest the game play of EL is not even half the reason I stayed with this game. The community here is great and i think that is what is getting hurt the most by the cooldown. I have seen 1/4 of my guild ready to leave the game, and another handful of members wanting a guildwide strike where we stop playing for this month long test period. I prefer niether happen but meh.

The main question of this thread was how does this cooldown change your stradegy and way of playing. For me it changes in one very simple way. I don't make anything anymore, Period. It is a month cooldown time and I have supplies to train my a/d with the freinds I truely enjoy playing the game with. And during those times when noone is around or feels like training, I will be harvesting in preparation for the end or tweaking of this cooldown, so if anyone needs to find me they will find me either in a mine or on a PK map somewhere.

*sigh* but I will miss all those goods times sitting at Raven and NC storage chatting away with people

 

 

Burnout

[FirEBallS]

Ok have not done alot of pk teasting yet. So I'll stay out of that for the most part.

 

As for mixing, pots, alch stuff, or even manu I don't see a big problem. As mentioned befor eat harvest mix seems to work well. For those of you that like to mix at storage feasting pots work great.

 

Training on mosters works fine as well. (Unless you are fighting something Out of your Lvl)

Fight, heal when needed, drink a Sr after that.

 

 

As for Pk Only advice I have is don't try to fight more then one at a time. As I work on more Pk stuff I'll add

My findings here.

 

Good luck all

FireBalls

[belali]

srs and feasting potions are need to be stockable for this cooldown times

[sMooMs]

From what i've heard and seen this is my little essay:

 

I'm not against the whole cooldown idea, it's quite cool it makes this game more advanced.

But the delay times are a bit too high for some things.

 

Food - Veggies and fruits delay is alright for just a person that wandering around or fighting or doing what ever.. but with alching,potion and other stuff it's hard.

It's a good idea to make potion of feasting and cooked meat more usefull items, but what's the use of fruits/veggies then ? just harving 10 and have with you when you travel ?

 

Fighting - If you get multied by monsters/players you can hardly surive this.

 

Example : Player A is getting chased by player B and C, player B attacks A, A disses and than C attacks him.. What will player A do ? IF B and C are too strong to heal against? he has no other choice than visit hell.

 

Yes you can say :

 

- Stay out of PK

- Get stronger

 

This makes it harder for the weaker people to PK.

 

A way to handle a 2v1 is having more will than the average fighter ( which is 16 will ), have 22+ will you can do 4 restores, when done the first restore click an sr, it will load by the time it's loaded u can use 1 more restore, and than your out of mana..

And what if the enemy mana drain you?

 

What i want to say is, that it's not a bad idea but some delay times are a bit too high.

 

I do not want to bitch or sound negative but this is just what i think.

[Pyewacket]

originally cooldown was going to come with an increase in XP gains per item made, which would serve mostly the same purpose. and had that happened, I suspect cooldown would have been better accepted since players can still gain levels at a similar pace, just with less item flood (though you'd need to adust food requirements for stuff like HE, which has a strong market but uses large amounts of food)

 

 

 

Yup, thats very true. And i look forward to this...

 

Actually, I found a very good way to solve this problem, but you guys will bitch a lot. Nevertheless, I will still do it, just for the sake of hearing you bitching

 

So here is my solution (until the new manufacturing system comes up, which is months away).

High cooldown values for food. That means, it will take like minutes before being able to eat again. No food, no manufacturing, no harvesting.

The exp for harvesting and manufacturing will, however, be increased 2 or 3 times, so people will manufacture less but get the same exp.

 

Is this ok with you?

 

from HERE

 

Coming to us in a future update. To be frankly honest I cant understand why it didnt occur at the same time, but I am sure theres a logical reason for it. Given that the recent lead up to the Cooldown has seen a remarkable number of Monster Invasions, I assume theres been some clever thinking to try and reduce some of the stockpiles that guilds have been making (such as Burnout mentions above, for instance).

 

I could be wrong, though, the invasions may just happen to coincide with MPOGD voting schedules. I honsetly dont know, or care. I can see the benefits from the Cooldown will be to improve market prices and its already happening.

 

As stockpiles lower, no doubt that will be the point that increased exp will be introduced, in order to compensate from the new floads of people making again to try and level up skills.

 

 

 

I am a little concerned (ok more than a little) though, when I hear that theres a cutback on fighters training and pking though...seems that might cut into the need for all the items we will eventually be getting increased exp from making in the future....

 

Still, this is a BETA game, and tweaking is always to be expected as no one ever gets it right first time with this stuff. EVER.

 

LOoking forward to things settling down again though for the fighters, or I will have nothing to do with all the stuff i make except to overload npcs and bots.

 

 

- PYEwacket

[petersohn]

Food - Veggies and fruits delay is alright for just a person that wandering around or fighting or doing what ever.. but with alching,potion and other stuff it's hard.

It's a good idea to make potion of feasting and cooked meat more usefull items, but what's the use of fruits/veggies then ? just harving 10 and have with you when you travel ?

 

Fruits/vegs are to make feasting pots. (But still, 60 sec for the fruit is a bit much)

 

 

Fighting - If you get multied by monsters/players you can hardly surive this.

 

Example : Player A is getting chased by player B and C, player B attacks A, A disses and than C attacks him.. What will player A do ? IF B and C are too strong to heal against? he has no other choice than visit hell.

 

Yes you can say :

 

- Stay out of PK

- Get stronger

 

This makes it harder for the weaker people to PK.

 

 

 

I fully agree with you.

[Cycloonx]

Ok I played a full day with the cooldown thingy in the game :mellow:

 

My story:

 

Ok, I logged in for the first time, I tested veggie, and I really loved the animation ... I felt really great because I was really looking forward to this update

 

Next thing was trying to make he, I started with fruits and it took ages to get 20 of them. I talked on GM with some guildmembers and TheVoice told me to use feasting potions. It worked very well, and we were still talking about getting he faster and faster ... I had to say, we learned a lot of new tactics! We can easily make 200he and get 100 extra silver ore to storage in about 15 minutes! (so the bitching about not being able to mass produce isn't true!) I made 2,5k he today, I never made such a lot of he in my EL career! I also think the waiting time for fruits gives an extra dimension to the game, more real life look, like your stomach needs to get energy of the fruits

 

Just something that could be add is like this: When you eat a fruit, the cooldown will only work for the fruit, so you can still eat veggies or meat. So players will carry more diffirent sorts of food (can you imagine you only eat fruits whole your life ?)

 

Another thing about pk'ing:

 

I'm not a pker but I would like to say something about it (TooMass don't shoot me )

Some people say it is much harder to kill a player that is stronger than you. I think that's quite normal, would it be logical that someone who is less strong than you can kill you ? I think it will satisfy you more when you kill someone who is much stronger than you. And I can believe it's really hard to restore without using lots of srs, but I was looking in arena today and I saw players who could still heal like 4-5-6 times and I think no more is needed ... Healing 30 times in a fight looks really weird I think.

 

Another thing about neg perks:

 

I think this cooldown is a very good punishment for neg perks (sure for anti-social ones) I think alch and manu are really difficult for them now, and I think it's a good compensation for their 10 free pickpoints they had in the past

 

So I really like the cooldown thing, it surely adds some extra challenges to the game and it's more fun (not more boring like most of the people say) You just have to search the best way to make certain things. The only thing I can and will believe that it will be very difficult for new players to gain some levels (because of failures and food needed)

 

So this is my opinion

Edited December 9, 2005 by Cycloonx

[Fyvle]

OK, I didn't really have a lot of time - and let's face it, patience - to go through every single post in this thread, so I'm hoping I'm not duplicating someone else's ideas. Apologies and please delete my post if thats the case.

 

Alternative to Food Cool-Down

 

How about we put an expiry on the food itself? Once I harvest the food, I have x amount of in-gmae time until it dissappears out of my inventory?

 

Pros (As I see 'em):

 

1. Easy to roleplay that, as it has a basis in rl. Fruit goes bad, vegetables rot, bread molds, meat turns green, gets up and walks away from you.

 

2. Addresses mass-production and market flooding issue by involving the player in more trips to the pumpkin patch. It slows down production, but at least the player is doing something.

 

I very much like Scafativ's suggestions... if may add to them:

 

Manu: You can only use as many EFEs per week as you have 10s of points of manu; in the 30's? Then 3. The 40's? Then 4. Maybe twice that number- the quantity can be decided.

 

Crafting: You can only make as many magic items as your level in crafting, per day. Crafting 42? 42 dis rings then you're chilled until midnight. Maybe twice that number- the quantity can be decided.

 

Perhaps we could also link the creation of magical items to Ethereal Points? EG; for every moon medallion I make, a certain amount of Ethereal Points are drained... this could also apply to enriched items, modable weapons etc, etc ad endless nauseaum.

 

I don't mind having a food cool-down, but as it stands right now, it seems to be overly long.

 

 

Hope I've helped more than anything else

[Beorn]

Well I found that making health ess in a cave is well um very time consuming it took me around an hour and a half to make 200 health ess with fruits. It is much easier to make them in storage with feasting pots.

[LadyWolf]

Ok, here is something that just came to mind. Everyone is saying don't fight above your level, whether it be monsters or other players. That is all fine and good, but what about during an invasion?

 

Like during the last invasion, I was in portland, it was all fine and good, lots and lots of ogres. Which is well at my level and I had no problem fighting several before needing to restore. then Minion summoned a mountain chim to take out some of the ogres, I guess this ticked Mortos off and "poof" I was surrounded by 20-30 mountain chims, which are very much still way above my fighting level. I was able to diss from several before I lagged and was over taken.

 

The point I am trying to make is, there has been a big push for the invasions, and lately I have rather enjoyed them. They have summoned the appropriate animals for the map they were on (except chims in portland)..What's gonna happen if mortos gets trigger happy again and in a medium level monster map summons fluff's or chims? Lot's of low and med level fighters are gonna die and lose stuff. Which will be bad for the invasions. People are already bitching cause they arent getting their deathbags back during invasions, or cause they arent getting a 24 hour notice that there will be an invasion (was addressed at the last community meeting)

 

So, in conclusion...Yes, don't go fighting monsters over your head in normal training and the 30 second cool down on dis rings and 22 second cooldown on srs won't affect you, but how you gonna control an angry Mortos? (mortos needs anger management btw )

 

Just another observation I thought I'd make. Not bitching in the least, keep up the good work

[Cycloonx]

Anyway, an invasion shouldn't be fun, but a really bad and worse thing

[Entropy]

Coming to us in a future update. To be frankly honest I cant understand why it didnt occur at the same time, but I am sure theres a logical reason for it. Given that the recent lead up to the Cooldown has seen a remarkable number of Monster Invasions, I assume theres been some clever thinking to try and reduce some of the stockpiles that guilds have been making (such as Burnout mentions above, for instance).

 

The reason why the increased exp will come ina future update is so that we balance it properly. The original idea with the cooldowns was to have like 1-2 minutes of cooldown between food, but we decided against it, and made only the 'free' food (veggies and fruits) have a high cooldown, while keeping the other food's cooldown relatively low.

[Pyewacket]

See? Knew there WAS a reason. Thanx Ent.

[duran]

Think of the economy as a bath that is being filled with water and is about to overflow. there are two ways of stoping it you can ether turn the tap and slow the flow of money in curculation or you can pull out the plug and try and take money out of curculation. This reduces the flow of money and may increase the demand for items being bought from npc's if people turn to buying potions of feasting from mira. alternatly you ajust the experience system you will reduce the need for this mass production of items in the first place.

 

how about doing both?

 

still, the el economy is a bath there there never was a plug, the money was allways running out of it.

only problem was that the tap was on full tilt and therefor overpowering the plug...

 

Alternative to Food Cool-Down

 

How about we put an expiry on the food itself? Once I harvest the food, I have x amount of in-gmae time until it dissappears out of my inventory?

 

Pros (As I see 'em):

 

1. Easy to roleplay that, as it has a basis in rl. Fruit goes bad, vegetables rot, bread molds, meat turns green, gets up and walks away from you.

 

2. Addresses mass-production and market flooding issue by involving the player in more trips to the pumpkin patch. It slows down production, but at least the player is doing something.

 

while the idea is nice, it would require a total rework of the current storage and inventory code. basicly what your describing is health for items. this have allready been debated for weapons and armor, and the same reason was given for why it cant be done unless there is a massive rework of part of the game...

 

the most visible change would be that each item that have a health counter could not stack. basicly all foods (maybe outside of the feasting potion) would require a slot in the inventory. you think todays system is bad? im not sure that it would be any better with that change...

[Sweettea]

I have been dealing with this cooldown thing all day. At first I was upset because I couldnt eat me fruits. But then I decided to buy feasting pots. Took a couple hours but I did it. then I realized how many feast pots I would use to make the Ess and Pots I needed and started to get upset all over again. But when I started making Ess and Bars and Potions. The ones I make the most are faster. So Its all good now And I think I may even like this change. I do realize that I amy go broke buying feasting potions but I am makin Spirit Restores and Life ess faster than I was ever making them before so Its all Good

 

Just want feasting pots to be stackable. That would would be awesome. With the fact that I can make things faster I can make more, sell more and get gc to afford to buy feasting potions. I can make feasting pots as well but that isnt as productive for me. So I say Whoohoo!!! Fruits are useless as well and veggies, i dont even bother anymore. But all in all I am doin fine but then i realise say a newer player may have a harder time buying feastin pots to make what they need (can use alot of potions in a few hours) and they most likelly wont have pot lvl to make feastin pots. I had to buy a friend of mine some feasting pots because she was too poor to get them herself so that she could make some stuff to sell to get gc to buy more feasting potions. Now I am just waiting to see how this will all turn out in the end

[jamincollins]

I have been dealing with this cooldown thing all day. At first I was upset because I couldnt eat me fruits. But then I decided to buy feasting pots. Took a couple hours but I did it. then I realized how many feast pots I would use to make the Ess and Pots I needed and started to get upset all over again. But when I started making Ess and Bars and Potions. The ones I make the most are faster. So Its all good now And I think I may even like this change. I do realize that I amy go broke buying feasting potions but I am makin Spirit Restores and Life ess faster than I was ever making them before so Its all Good

Funny, that's what people in channel #4 were advising everyone to do this morning, as I recall. Yet most people just wanted to complain.

 

But all in all I am doin fine but then i realise say a newer player may have a harder time buying feastin pots to make what they need (can use alot of potions in a few hours) and they most likelly wont have pot lvl to make feastin pots. I had to buy a friend of mine some feasting pots because she was too poor to get them herself so that she could make some stuff to sell to get gc to buy more feasting potions. Now I am just waiting to see how this will all turn out in the end

Getting the money necessary to buy a few dozen feasting pots to get started isn't that hard. FE is still feasible to make without them, using only vegetables, fruit, or cooked meat. So, they gather the ingredients, make a few FE, sell them to the magic shop (worst case) and buy some feasting pots.

[Sheesh]

The biggest effect I see is that I am unable to make (or restock) my supplies of ME's and HE's. This is not a big concern to me, but I cannot feasibly go to the beam to heal the newbs and others like I have done in the past. I depleted my sources on the last 3 invasions giving a mass heal to all. So the biggest problem I see, is that I am unable to be nice

 

Oh well, can't be nice forever anyway I wish the best of luck to all in the next invasion.