Calling all guildleaders

[Damned_Angel]

The Brotherhood of Bane appoints an Envoy to handle guild diplomacy, that person does not have to be the guildleader.

 

As I said before the Brotherhood of Bane is in favor of this idea, but we are not sure if it will work in a satisfactory way.

For representation from our guild; it will either be our envoy (most likely), or a guildleader or the guildmaster.

 

I personally agree with the idea of a plenipotentiary ambassador that can represent the guild, when the GM is not available due to various reasons. In non-diplomatic terms this means that the guild evoy has the same representativity as the guild leader or council and his/her oppinion would be 100% sustained by her/his guild.

 

The main issue is if the guilds that choose such a representation would give the appointed envoy a the power to fully represent the guild or if they choose to offer him/her a limitative representation. In this case, if the envoys need all the time to consult the leaders, the Council activity can suffer great delays. But this is only an oppinion.

 

As for me setting up the Council... Thanks LW for the imense trust and honor you offer me, but i'm afraid that Dawn is not a representative guild for the community in this moment due to its size and period of existence within the EL space. But as as a representative of Dawn in the Guild Council i would sustain the efforts of the Executive Leadership in any way our guild can.

 

Marantz as you discovered from this thread, Dawn joined the idea and tried to be constructive. I've posted a draft plan of goals - which were defined by you as "vague, grandiose, ideas but with nothing concrete as a basis", except "punishing bagjumpers, scammers".

 

I want to underline some things:

 

1) interguild projects - is not a grandious, vague and withouth concrete basis idea: i don't want to define guild projects now - i suppose you and most of the people her know this allready, but what is wrong to extend the one guild participation in such projects to many guilds?

 

I will give you an example: let's supose we have a guild with many potioners and a guild with many fighters. They both have weak points in starting their own guild project. Potioners in many cases due to the lack of EMU and fighters due to the lack of nexuses. If they make an interguild project they can complete each other. They split the project result according to some agreed terms. Potioners increase their skills faster - fighters get free potions to train. The same idea can be realized with crafters, manuers, alchemists, etc.

 

2) diplomacy - is not a grandious, vague and withouth concrete basis idea: i don't want to define diplomacy now - i would copy/paste though Dawn Policy regarding the Alliances to understand what an alliance could mean, and who would be interested in such cooperation.

 

An Alliance is a complex agreement between two guilds, including the signing of a Non Aggression Pact and of other complimentary documents.

 

Passive alliances include the signing of a Non-Aggression Pact and let the members conclude other agreements at inter personal level.

 

Active alliances include the signing of a Non-Aggression Pact and establishing any of the following inter-guild relations:

 

- commercial: all the commercial transactions between guilds (not personal transactions of the members) are made with a x % discount

 

- knowledge share: guild’s best specialists manufacture/craft/mix high skill items for the other guild when ingredients provided, without asking a fee for their work

 

- death bag recovery: possibility to send #ig asking for death-bag assistance and receive it.

 

- inter guild projects: members of both guilds can participate in mixed projects. Therefore an inter-guild project thread will be made on each of the guild’s forums [thread available to the other guild’s members] where proposals for projects can be made and people can set teams. For instance crafters in a guild may want to do silver/gold bars and they can team up with the crafters from the other guild. Also some situations a special guild chat channel will be used by members of both guilds so they can communicate easily and do projects together

 

- strategic partnership: in the community polls the best situated member of any of the 2 guilds will gain the votes of the other guild's members for his position to be strengthened. Also other strategic partnership as agreeing on setting the market prices to a certain level.

 

3)community attitude against some "negative behaviour" is not a grandious, vague and withouth concrete basis idea: i don't want to define "negative behaviour" now - because it is allready defined by the game creators and forum owners/administrators in the section "outlaws". This "outlaw" section exist - outlaw means negative behaviour towards a part of the community. So this Council would reccomend some ideas to that part of the community that was affected.

 

 

if you want i can explain my vision regarding all the grandious, vague and withouth concrete basis ideas but i lack the time now and i'm sure the subscribers to this thread have much better ideas than me.

Edited December 21, 2005 by Damned_Angel

[Vanyel]

I was wondering who is the admin of the Council forums and who will be supposed to moderate them.

It's quite important question. Since the Council will be ruled by all guild masters - who will be in charge on forums.

[The_Piper]

IMO the first and only idea to have this council is starting to *TALK* with eachothers.

 

Meaning, to solve problems peacefully except of starting stupid wars for nothing or only insulting other players in local chat or PM.

 

For me this council is a place to talk and sort out problems. Nothing more, nothing less. You dont need a constitution to sit down and talk about issues, just do it. And it can help a lot.

 

My 2 cents,

 

Piper

[Damned_Angel]

I was wondering who is the admin of the Council forums and who will be supposed to moderate them.

It's quite important question. Since the Council will be ruled by all guild masters - who will be in charge on forums.

 

Van this is an issue that was brought to the Council attention allready. I underlined the issue as the first idea to be discussed in a specific section of the forums. In my oppinion i guess the decision should belong to the guild representatives as any other decision.

[LadyWolf]

Who says we have to have a guild council to sit and discuss things?

 

As far as starting "silly wars", thats all apart of the fighting system. If you try to stop them, you will take away the fun that alot of people have in pk. I mean, to think..if UTi got along with *CO*,=Hc= and Ca$h..my life would be boring. I would not have to keep an eye out whenever I entered pk.

 

Now as Marantz said, we can see D_A's outline, but it is long and drawn out and full of pretty words. How about breaking it down to the points you are trying to make? I mean, I have a college degree and made good grades in english and grammar and still had to look the word "plenipotentiary" up.

 

I think the guilds are perfectly capable of speaking to each other as they are. I have other thoughts about the whole reasoning behind this, but I will not address them here, because I will not start a flame war.

Edited December 22, 2005 by LadyWolf

[Damned_Angel]

I'm sorry for any of my future comments - this is a very sad day for me - look at the "Greetings" section of EL forums, so my ideas might seem a bit harsh.

 

But i want to kindly ask those that oposed the Council one question.

 

You want the community stronger or divided?

 

And if you are so kind justify your position (if possible not making remarks like "i don't know how this council would make the community stronger, because we all know that the specialities EL councils allready answered to this hypotesys".

 

Thank you

[Ghrae]

But i want to kindly ask those that oposed the Council one question.

 

You want the community stronger or divided?

 

"opposed the Council"? Well, if you've been reading my posts, I've been trying to get a very clear vision of the council. Until such time I will recommend that CEL not join only BECAUSE there isn't a defined structure to deny/accept. I'm not opposed to the Council in general or because who may/may not run it. But I can't say "I'll buy a green car" until I know more about that green car. In my mind, opposition means understanding clearly what something is and THEN saying No to it.

 

If you think I am opposed, then yes... I am opposed... to any idea that requests membership before the idea has been given at least a clear outline. Several people here have offered opinins on what they would like it to be (The_Piper, Damned_Angel, etc...) but as far as I know, those are just the personal opinions of those people and not the draft "constitution" of this Council. Or was something approved (as an initial draft) that I don't know about?

 

"You want the community stronger or divided?"

Damned_Angel, I have long admired you and respected you... but this is such a loaded question. And it's such an empty question at the same time. It's almost forcing people to say "yes" without their being a true opinion to agree with.

 

It *implies* that to make the community stronger we must join the council or we will collapse. Well, we've managed without the council up to now and haven't collapsed. In fact, the main comment I hear about why players play EL is for the community and all the friends they have made here. So despite the lack of a guild council, community is a huge factor to players in this game.

 

And what does "community stronger" mean? Do I want to keep EL a game where people can easily chat? Yes (I've yet to see any game out there that is so easy to chat with people and offers so many simple ways of doing it). Do I enjoy the friendly banter at storages, at training areas, and on open channels like #jc 4? Yes. Have I seen people create alliances between guilds based on nothing more than friendship (i.e. both guilds have rules against PK)?? Yes

 

So, if you're going to suggest that if there is no council that the community will divide... I'd like to hear why you feel that will happen.

 

If you feel that the community will be stronger because of the vaguely proposed council, I don't know if I can agree or disagree. Piper's idea of just a monthly gathering of guilds to chat seems enjoyable, but I worry that with that many guilds the cross talk and random conversations may not be highly confusing.

 

Again, before you ask such a question, please don't try to be so political and beg for the emotional response without at least filling the question with substance. It's almost like saying "Would you like to watch your wife die or buy this green car?" (I'm hoping here the the emotional response for most people is to buy the vaguely described green car ) My point being that both halves of the question both you and I asked are not directly related but the only "good" answer is to pick what appears to be the non-bad answer, which in your case is still unofficially described.

 

On another note, I'm still thinking about your outline for the council. I appreciate you taking the time to outline the council via your suggestion. As Marantz mentioned, the wording in some areas is vague and I do not want to suggest that CEL get into something that may put us in an akward position, but since your proposal is just a draft, I am thinking more on the ideas you proposed knowing that we may have to change the wording. Thank you for your efforts.

[Damned_Angel]

Bro, i ask this question in general. Not related to the Guild Council or anything.

 

So generally speaking - Is better for EL to have a strong community or a divided community?

[Vanyel]

I'm sorry for any of my future comments - this is a very sad day for me - look at the "Greetings" section of EL forums, so my ideas might seem a bit harsh.

 

But i want to kindly ask those that oposed the Council one question.

 

You want the community stronger or divided?

 

And if you are so kind justify your position (if possible not making remarks like "i don't know how this council would make the community stronger, because we all know that the specialities EL councils allready answered to this hypotesys".

 

Thank you

 

 

1. I will suggest Seridia Viatoris not tot join the Council, due to:

• 1. unclear aims of it;
  2. unclear ways of dealing with issues;
  3. lack of any plan, except general thoughts ("we would like to imporve community", "we would like to discuss outlaws", etc.)
  4. I find the ideas presented here discriminative toward guildless people;
  5. I'm very afraid whether the Council won't be use as an item of pushing and threatening guilds not in it/supporting its decisions;
  6. I'm disappointed with the way of dealing with simple questions by some people in this thread - considering that the council will deal with people having their own ideas/doubts/worrieds like this - I don't want to have anything in common with this
  

You want the community stronger or divided?

 

I don't see many waya the Council could make the community stronger - concerning that not all guilds will join it. I see, though, couple ways the council could divide the community (guilds in council vs guild not in and guildless players). Simple dealing with guildless people ("we will let them have one representative") is unacceptable. Dealing with guilds not in ("make them outlaw" at first then pulling back from this) is shocking. This make me think that the council will more divide than unity. I don't see, also, how not joining it or not supporting each of its decisions (if it will manage to make any without any reasonable plan of work) could divide the community. It's like saying:

"we know the only right way, if you don't follow us the World will end".

With respect

Vanyel

 

PS. Thank you Damned Angel for giving us some ideas about the work of council. Your posts are making things much more clear. Great job!

[MarantZ]

DA, I applaud your efforts - I really do. But the overly long description got longer with your explanation.

 

Therefore I'm still looking for a CONCISE set of bullet points of the goals of such a council. No one seems to be able to produce such a list.

 

So, here is the situation, a newbie logs on, and says, 'hey, this guild council thing I've heard about, what does it ACTUALLY DO?'.

 

What reply would you give?

[Damned_Angel]

DA, I applaud your efforts - I really do. But the overly long description got longer with your explanation.

 

Therefore I'm still looking for a CONCISE set of bullet points of the goals of such a council. No one seems to be able to produce such a list.

 

So, here is the situation, a newbie logs on, and says, 'hey, this guild council thing I've heard about, what does it ACTUALLY DO?'.

 

What reply would you give?

 

My friend i'm sorry to dissapoint you but is not me to give a reply to any question. I'm just Dawn representative within this structure and one of the people trying to help this Council work. I'm not a representative of the Council - i was not empowered to talk for the council and probably i won't be one of the Council's Leaders - due to the fact that there are many leaders of representative guilds that can take the job. I guess what i wanted to do is to come out with some ideas.

 

Now that you underlined that - i've mentioned that this Council can host various debates.

 

One of the subjects that can be debated could be the the effects of the cooldown on market inflation in EL, as to prepare for the moment announced by Ent, (1 month after the introduction of the update) with some kind of an outlook report that could help the developing team with various ideas.

 

For instance the gc exits from the game. Are there enough "gc exits" in Seridia? (Illirion would have some - that's what rumors say). Can a gc exit can be added to ensure a continuous flow of gc from the game? like a ship transportation tax?

 

What would be the effect on eliminating the books from monster drops? Is the Nordcarn bookseller used by anyone? Can it be improved?

 

Are the animal non-stackable items affecting the market - cause of the fact they mantain the summoning (between certain levels) less gc consuming?

 

The model of enchanted swords market that in low scale seems to be more stable could offer some information regarding a what would happen if we would have a reduced number of items on market?

 

Could the wraith become - a gc exit?

 

Could a change of the current tool status to one similar with pickaxes help a bit?

 

What would happen weapons/armors drops include broken stuff? I mean is more realistic since the monster fought with it. Would that ensure a gc exit?

 

What would happen if some recipes would change? for instance the recipes for high end items?

 

Who regulates the market now? Because is very clear that the market is not regulated only by an offer/request system. Aren't some groups selling at dumping prices?

 

The NPC prices are the reference system for the market but those prices are working only in potions and alchemy. Could a crafting seller/buyer npc help regulate the crafted items market?

 

And many issues like these?

 

I guess these can be a subject of a debate.

[LadyWolf]

Opposed? No, I am not opposed to the idea. Just like Ghrae, anyel, and Marantz, I am unclear of the goals of this council. If I was oppossed, do youthink I would seriously spend the time I have trying to get answers to the simplest of questions?

 

You want the community stronger or divided?

 

I think our community is great like it is. We have a great balance of good-doers and are oh so ebul players. One thing I wanna stress, this IS a game, NOT real life. An rpg at that. Meaning there are different roles to be played. If you try to stamp out the bad completely, then what do you have? A bunch of out of work good-doers.

 

True it might be nice to get together and discuss things, but like it was mentioned before, you get all the guilds we have in EL together at once and no matter what you do, there is going to be mass hysteria.

 

Also, as Vanyel said, I think that implementing this council is going to further drive a wedge between those of us that are in guilds and the guildless ones. It will also pit those guilds in council against those that might not join, no matter how much you say it won't happen, you know the ones that don't join will be looked upon as outlaws and shunned.

[Damned_Angel]

Long time ago after he participated to the Venice Carnival, Delacroix said (in old lombardian dialect) "Quanto dirne si dee non si puo dire". - How many things are to be said, but can't be said -

I'm sorry but i see masks... too many masks.

[Damned_Angel]

This kind of dialogue is not new either.

 

"I don't see" vs "I see" on a theoretical system was the best debate the world had since Renaissance. The example i have in mind is the debate between those that sustained geocentrism and the few adepts of heliocentrism (Nicolaus Copernic or Galileo Galilei) during middle ages.

 

All we do is to have 2 sides: traditionalists that don't see any good such Council would give to the community, or want to be convinced of the existance of this good first and people that think in a more liberal way that want to give it a try.

 

I respect everyone's oppinion but i'm afraid that arguing here won't help at all. Too much talk and too less work. I never imagined that all EL guilds would join such a Council, i'm a realistic person that does not believe in Utopias not even in virtual ones.

 

But since a critical number of guilds have joined the Council and their representatives registered on the forums i guess is time for some technical debates to be moved from this thread to the special section in the forums.

 

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to everyone!;-)

 

Hugs:-)

 

For those that did not registered or want to do it in the future the Guild Council Forum's Adress is:

http://www.phpbbserver.com/phpbb/index.php?mforum=eligc

Edited December 22, 2005 by Damned_Angel

[Jezebelle]

some of you have been asking for bullet points about what the Council can do for Eternal lands and its community.

Here we go, and mind you, these are IDEAS that need to be worked out, about who is gonna do it etc. :

 

Sorting out differences between players. This dont mean the Council will solve wars. As stated; EL will continue to have guildwars in order to keep te RP fun. This is more about players issues with eachother, mostly based on misunderstandings and all.

Sometimes its nice to have a go-between to sort it out. Both guildleaders/representatives can meet and talk things through, and therefore try and give both players back their ingame fun.

 

helping newcomers feel welcome. The Council will not be taking over the NH's jobs, just supporting them by doing it. I was thinking of having Council members picking out one skill, and make it known to the newcomers who to turn to for advice and guidance in that. (on forums and perhaps #1 when asked)

Newcomers often find themselves lost, and start spamming etc out of boredom or dissapointment, in not knowing what to do. The Council can make them feel wanted and welcome.

 

Speak about ingame matters, such as new developements. perhaps come up with ideas how to handle certain things in leveling, dealing with new features such as cooldown, even organize events.

 

These are, imo atm, the main focusses (is that a correct word?) of the Council.

 

 

I hope I did satisfy you with this. As Damned_Angel said, its not time to start to focus to get the Council working and all. We wiull do that at our Council Forum.

 

*hugs*

 

Jez

[LadyWolf]

some of you have been asking for bullet points about what the Council can do for Eternal lands and its community.

Here we go, and mind you, these are IDEAS that need to be worked out, about who is gonna do it etc. :

 

Sorting out differences between players. This dont mean the Council will solve wars. As stated; EL will continue to have guildwars in order to keep te RP fun. This is more about players issues with eachother, mostly based on misunderstandings and all.

Sometimes its nice to have a go-between to sort it out. Both guildleaders/representatives can meet and talk things through, and therefore try and give both players back their ingame fun.

 

helping newcomers feel welcome. The Council will not be taking over the NH's jobs, just supporting them by doing it. I was thinking of having Council members picking out one skill, and make it known to the newcomers who to turn to for advice and guidance in that. (on forums and perhaps #1 when asked)

Newcomers often find themselves lost, and start spamming etc out of boredom or dissapointment, in not knowing what to do. The Council can make them feel wanted and welcome.

 

Speak about ingame matters, such as new developements. perhaps come up with ideas how to handle certain things in leveling, dealing with new features such as cooldown, even organize events.

 

These are, imo atm, the main focusses (is that a correct word?) of the Council.

 

 

I hope I did satisfy you with this. As Damned_Angel said, its not time to start to focus to get the Council working and all. We wiull do that at our Council Forum.

 

*hugs*

 

Jez

 

All stuff that is handled well enough now. Seems to me this is just a way for some to get some recognition or get their ego stroked.

[Arnieman]

IOW, "since you aren't all blind-faith followers, we're gonna retreat to our place and leave your questions unanswered."

 

I still fail to see how building a council on unclear views will bring the community closer. I mean, we already had this exact same idea a couple months ago, and it went nowhere - and yet, we are still the same community we had to begin with.

 

I am severely discouraged that some people have resorted to (what could be considered) scare tactics to garner support.

[Jezebelle]

some of you have been asking for bullet points about what the Council can do for Eternal lands and its community.

Here we go, and mind you, these are IDEAS that need to be worked out, about who is gonna do it etc. :

 

Sorting out differences between players. This dont mean the Council will solve wars. As stated; EL will continue to have guildwars in order to keep te RP fun. This is more about players issues with eachother, mostly based on misunderstandings and all.

Sometimes its nice to have a go-between to sort it out. Both guildleaders/representatives can meet and talk things through, and therefore try and give both players back their ingame fun.

 

helping newcomers feel welcome. The Council will not be taking over the NH's jobs, just supporting them by doing it. I was thinking of having Council members picking out one skill, and make it known to the newcomers who to turn to for advice and guidance in that. (on forums and perhaps #1 when asked)

Newcomers often find themselves lost, and start spamming etc out of boredom or dissapointment, in not knowing what to do. The Council can make them feel wanted and welcome.

 

Speak about ingame matters, such as new developements. perhaps come up with ideas how to handle certain things in leveling, dealing with new features such as cooldown, even organize events.

 

These are, imo atm, the main focusses (is that a correct word?) of the Council.

 

 

I hope I did satisfy you with this. As Damned_Angel said, its not time to start to focus to get the Council working and all. We wiull do that at our Council Forum.

 

*hugs*

 

Jez

 

All stuff that is handled well enough now. Seems to me this is just a way for some to get some recognition or get their ego stroked.

 

You are entitled of your opinion Ladywolf, but me and others do think differently on that

 

 

IOW, "since you aren't all blind-faith followers, we're gonna retreat to our place and leave your questions unanswered."

 

I still fail to see how building a council on unclear views will bring the community closer. I mean, we already had this exact same idea a couple months ago, and it went nowhere - and yet, we are still the same community we had to begin with.

 

I am severely discouraged that some people have resorted to (what could be considered) scare tactics to garner support.

 

 

You asked for the tasks the Council would work on, I posted them and still you arent satisfied. Im not sure what answers you expect, realy, but I have been as clear as i can be at this point. The details will be worked out with the Guildleaders/representatives that have applied for the Council.

I do thank you for your comments.

 

Jez

[Arnieman]

You asked for the tasks the Council would work on, I posted them and still you arent satisfied. Im not sure what answers you expect, realy, but I have been as clear as i can be at this point. The details will be worked out with the Guildleaders/representatives that have applied for the Council.

I do thank you for your comments.

 

Jez

I asked for goals - okay, I got some, still partially getting the "I don't know why we're meeting, we have to decide that later" answer. If you have no purpose to meet, why meet?

I asked how it was better than what we already have in place to do these jobs - no response.

I asked how this was supposed to be different than the last time this was tried - no response.

I asked about the certain unfortunate "misinterpreted" line - so far, you've told us that it was "misinterpreted", but no one seems able to actually say that it won't be as was said, or how we can prevent it from being that way. Some "misinterpretation".

 

I'm kind of concerned that this whole call for a guild council, sans purpose, is an attempt to grandstand.

 

DA - I respect you highly as a fellow player of this game, and had we talked more, I might even call you friend. However, your assertion (and of course, Jez's "misinterpreted" line) leaves me disconcerted. You raise the question to people who have opposed the idea of a united community or a divided one.

 

Honestly, I don't think too many that have answered this call are against uniting the community. I for one am not. However, I don't see how bullying, scaring, and ostracizing people to make them meet together is going to help promote ANY unity. In fact, quite the opposite, such tactics would drive MORE wedges into the community, at least as I've seen in my personal experience.

[Ghrae]

You want the community stronger or divided?

 

Ok, let's base my answer on a more "generic" sense.

 

First of all, I still don't see how these two are related. I don't see an either/or situation. Can the game have a strong community and still be divided? Yes. It's called difference of opinions. I don't always agree with the direction the game or other players have gone. But that doesn't mean that I don't like the game or those people.

 

I was once a co-guild leader of RIVA. The guild was going in a direction that I didn't like. It wasn't wrong. It was just a different focus in how they played. So I left, to allow the guild to grow in that direction. And I've still stayed good friends with the guild as a whole and many of the players individually.

 

So I guess the only real question is: do I want a stronger community?

 

I still think this is a loaded question. You might as well as: do I want to be rich? Who would answer "no"? So yes, I want a stronger community. But I also don't think that the aim of such goals should be taken lightly.

 

Do I think a council can help make a stronger community? I think it is possible. However, I think that just the wish to be a better community is not enough. There are logistics to be considered that if not thought of carefully could result in feelings of frustration and even anger. (Specifically, during these meetings of 15-30 guilds, how do you plan on letting everyone have a turn, and yet also be able to discuss issues without the meeting going for hours?).

 

And lastly Damned_Angel, at least in my case, I wouldn't have accepted the invitation to be a mod if I didn't care about the community or the game. In all honesty, being a mod is a lot more work than anyone realizes it. And since there are no rewards for doing it, it has to be something you care about.

 

For that same reason, I've dedicated countless hours on the CEL Information site and have had to coordiate with a ton of people on corrections, suggestions, etc. Again, do I care about the community? Yes. Am I doing something about it? Yes.

[Jezebelle]

You asked for the tasks the Council would work on, I posted them and still you arent satisfied. Im not sure what answers you expect, realy, but I have been as clear as i can be at this point. The details will be worked out with the Guildleaders/representatives that have applied for the Council.

I do thank you for your comments.

 

Jez

I asked for goals - okay, I got some, still partially getting the "I don't know why we're meeting, we have to decide that later" answer. If you have no purpose to meet, why meet?

We do know why we will meet, to discuss the things I mentioned

 

I asked how it was better than what we already have in place to do these jobs - no response.

it will be better, because we think we have more time to do it.

 

I asked how this was supposed to be different than the last time this was tried - no response.

You dont know me very well, do you? If i want something, i will work very hard till I get it..if I believe in something, I will work VERY hard to make it work..I am commited..I am willing..and I have some good people backing me up.

 

I asked about the certain unfortunate "misinterpreted" line - so far, you've told us that it was "misinterpreted", but no one seems able to actually say that it won't be as was said, or how we can prevent it from being that way. Some "misinterpretation".

Agaian, my words can come across to harsh at times, perhaps its because im no native speaker..?

 

I'm kind of concerned that this whole call for a guild council, sans purpose, is an attempt to grandstand.

If it does, whats lost? at least we tried..

 

DA - I respect you highly as a fellow player of this game, and had we talked more, I might even call you friend. However, your assertion (and of course, Jez's "misinterpreted" line) leaves me disconcerted. You raise the question to people who have opposed the idea of a united community or a divided one.

 

Honestly, I don't think too many that have answered this call are against uniting the community. I for one am not. However, I don't see how bullying, scaring, and ostracizing people to make them meet together is going to help promote ANY unity. In fact, quite the opposite, such tactics would drive MORE wedges into the community, at least as I've seen in my personal experience.

 

Nobody is twisting your arm to join the Council..and..as we got further into this plan, I think we all know we cant get all guilds to join in, and we cannot 'punish'the guilds that dont join the Council either.

Does that answer your questions?

[DragonSlayer]

I must begin this saying Tankyou to everyone who give ideas for the Council they will be discused and some will accepted and others will be rejected...

 

For those who have questions about the council management... you are right in having those questions, but sadly not me or Damned Angel or Jebelle can answer... the only people who can answer that questions are the Council Leader and belive it or not they don't exist yet... so how can they answer?

 

Yes you have right in having lots of doubts.. but to be answered a council must be formed... all questions here will be answered once it have been setup, we just have a bunch of thoughs about how it should be formed and what it is going to do, they may or may not be like i want it to be.... but i do hope it will be a close one

I was really expecting more guilds to help us in the realization of this Council, but as long as a Council does not exist your questions can't be answered in a categoric way... hmmm... it is like a circle...

 

I just have one thing in my mind and one goal... I want make the game better, it is fine how it is though, but it could be more enjoyable....

 

So i thankyou everyone for your ideas and the interguild forum is open for new ones

 

For those who expect a answer i just ask for patience, once the Concil is setup... ALL of them will be answered

[Vanyel]

For those who have questions about the council management... you are right in having those questions, but sadly not me or Damned Angel or Jebelle can answer... the only people who can answer that questions are the Council Leader and belive it or not they don't exist yet... so how can they answer?

 

I can't agree with you. Such questions, we asked, must have answers before the council is formed. Especially, since they stop couple guilds far from the Council.

 

I was really expecting more guilds to help us in the realization of this Council, but as long as a Council does not exist your questions can't be answered in a categoric way... hmmm... it is like a circle...

 

Once again, without answering to our questions, especially by people that came with this idea, is a bit... well, it makes me doubt. Some of us just don't like to blind follow any way. We prefer to know where the path we are on leads. If we don't - sure we can risk - but the possible outcomes are very dangerous for community and risking is not best idea in this situation.

 

Agaian, my words can come across to harsh at times, perhaps its because im no native speaker..?

 

Actually, even if you're native speaker you couldn't have expressed yourself more clearly. The message was very obvious - "you're not with us, you're against us and you're outlaw".

[MarantZ]

All we do is to have 2 sides: traditionalists that don't see any good such Council would give to the community, or want to be convinced of the existance of this good first and people that think in a more liberal way that want to give it a try.

 

Not quite. I wouldn't describe any one who wants to see the point/goals/aims of such an organisation as 'traditionalists'. Rather I'd call them 'people who ask questions' - nothing more, nothing less.

 

But anyway, DA, Jez, etc, the council is not for me, but that doean't mean I don't wish you good luck with trying to improve the EL community in some fashion.

[ttlanhil]

apart from pointing out that this has been tried before (the Eternal Lands League of Guilds) I've avoided posting here. I think it's time to now

All stuff that is handled well enough now. Seems to me this is just a way for some to get some recognition or get their ego stroked.

 

You are entitled of your opinion Ladywolf, but me and others do think differently on that

a lot of people agreed back when ELLG was started. it flopped. those things are already covered. some can be done better, sure, but I don't think a league of guilds addresses that

newbie helping: unless you're an NH/mod... this should never be something you're told to do. you should either do it because you want to help, or stay out of the way (and yes, I'm aware of the situation of the community service stuff)

interguild disputes: do you really think that if there's a problem between two guilds that an outside organisation between guild leaders can resolve it? I don't.

suggestions & link with devs: that's what the player reps were for. and once the new skill systems and items and all are added, the council is likely to come back. if you're a guild leader and you can't use the forums here (or even in game if necessary) to discuss dev stuff... well...

reports on problem players: outlaws forum. or #ig to get their guild leader

 

and now comments on other stuff.

no set goals: yes, leaving it open for once the group is going makes sence. but you need to be able to justify it before people will invest the time. I think that was missed.

guildleaders only: okay, go talk to all of the guildleaders and ask them if there's someone (even if you limit it to those with rank 15+ or even 19) online more than them... probably in many cases it will be. that's part of why the ELLG allowed co-captains or representatives (not in the same standing as guild leaders maybe, but they were allowed in). the other reasons like guild leaders being away, time zones, etc has already been covered

guildleaders knowing the game: it only takes 30k and a skill over 39(or worse yet, purchasing a guild from another player. over 30K gc and a skill at 20). that can be done in a short time if you get stuck in. and there are a large number of newbies who think they should start a guild... end result is a lot of guilds formed that will flop due to lack of membership, or stay small... with only a few people in them and a guid leader who hasn't been playing EL for that long

 

now, I'd like to see better communication between guilds and all (I think that's one of the best aspects to ideas like this one).

I supported ELLG and in theory I'll support this attempt (in practice, it depends on implementation), but I think there's simpler ways to acheive it.

stuff like an #ig for rank 15/19+ (both to send and receive... guild leader communication, it'd be useful at times)