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Jezebelle

Calling all guildleaders

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I love when people are blind to other thoughts.

 

I have been asking before..what are you so afraid of?

If this Council is unneeded, or chaos*, or it wont work..why are you fighting so hard against it?

1. I'm not fighting against council, you again, made up an enemy. Need one, feel free.

2. If I would like to fight against it, look what you have written (I bolded it to make it easier to spot). Chaos is something what is absolutely not needed.

 

 

Yes, why is the Council trying to ad to the mods jobs? perhaps to help out, since they are so busy?

You said so many times you don't want to do mods' job and here we go. You don't want to be a mod. You want to be an addition. May I ask, whether you asked anybody if such addition is needed or just go for it, be an addition and force others to accept it?

 

realy? Then why all the pms to me to be a middleman/woman?And not to the moderators?

Perhaps thats a question YOU should ask yourself

I have no idea, maybe cos they were misleaded by someone and told that they should NOT trust moderators?

 

 

*bolding by me

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I love when people are blind to other thoughts.

 

I have been asking before..what are you so afraid of?

If this Council is unneeded, or chaos*, or it wont work..why are you fighting so hard against it?

1. I'm not fighting against council, you again, made up an enemy. Need one, feel free.

2. If I would like to fight against it, look what you have written (I bolded it to make it easier to spot). Chaos is something what is absolutely not needed.

 

ah great..now you are attacking me on a typo? real mature..:D

 

Yes, why is the Council trying to ad to the mods jobs? perhaps to help out, since they are so busy?

You said so many times you don't want to do mods' job and here we go. You don't want to be a mod. You want to be an addition. May I ask, whether you asked anybody if such addition is needed or just go for it, be an addition and force others to accept it?

 

Read my post like they are written and you will see that in my long time experience as a player there IS need of such an addition. And for the exact reason, feel free to pm me ingame or on forums, because I am not risking a ban because of you provoking me to break #26

 

realy? Then why all the pms to me to be a middleman/woman?And not to the moderators?

Perhaps thats a question YOU should ask yourself

I have no idea, maybe cos they were misleaded by someone and told that they should NOT trust moderators?

 

..................this dont even deserve an asnwer..

*bolding by me

 

 

I think this tread is done here. All that needs to be said is said, and even more that was nOT needed here.

The Council has been created and will post their Job Discription as soon as its done.

Till then, feel free to pm me or Damned_Angel ingame or on forums if you have any questions.

I do not want this to end up in flames so I am asking the Forum Moderator to please close this tread after this post.

 

Thank you all for your contributions.

 

JezeBelle

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ah great..now you are attacking me on a typo? real mature..smile.gif

Jez, with all respect, too many typos, misinterpretations in this thread. You shall start thinking of what you're posting.

 

Read my post like they are written and you will see that in my long time experience as a player there IS need of such an addition. And for the exact reason, feel free to pm me ingame or on forums, because I am not risking a ban because of you provoking me to break #26

Read my words - did you waste your precious time and ask anybody for opinion?

You're not breaking the letter of rule 26, but with this words you're for sure breaking its spirit. You're suggesting that there is something wrong with mods, what is, let me say it clearly and with big letters - UNFAIR and DISHONEST. If you have anything against mods, instead of making conspiracy say it aloud. If there are serious problems we all should know them, don't we?

And don't you think that if your long time experiecne as a player would be so precious everybody would be running to ask for your opinion? (Sorry, for meanness and sarcasm, but I give up - you don't get my points at all).

 

.................this dont even deserve an asnwer..

Why?

Edited by vanyel

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ah great..now you are attacking me on a typo? real mature..smile.gif

Jez, with all respect, too many typos, misinterpretations in this thread. You shall start thinking of what you're posting.

 

it was just a typo which has been edited

 

Read my post like they are written and you will see that in my long time experience as a player there IS need of such an addition. And for the exact reason, feel free to pm me ingame or on forums, because I am not risking a ban because of you provoking me to break #26

Read my words - did you waste your precious time and ask anybody for opinion?

You're not breaking the letter of rule 26, but with this words you're for sure breaking its spirit. You're suggesting that there is something wrong with mods, what is, let me say it clearly and with big letters - UNFAIR and DISHONEST. If you have anything against mods, instead of making conspiracy say it aloud. If there are serious problems we all should know them, don't we?

 

Its clear, even you know it, the mods cannot do all the work, so the Council can fill in the blanks, so to speak, what crime is commited with that?

 

 

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Another try.

Jez, with all respect, too many typos, misinterpretations in this thread. You shall start thinking of what you're posting.

 

it was just a typo which has been edited

 

Once again. You should start controlling your own words. You managed to suggested that guilds not joining you should be called outlaw. Then you claimed it's misinterpretation.

Now you said the chaos is not bad. Ok, I accept that it's a type, what doesn't change the point. Think twice before posting. Read what you want to post. Each mistake, especially such serious as 'outlaw' phrase should never have occured in such important thread.

 

 

Its clear, even you know it, the mods cannot do all the work, so the Council can fill in the blanks, so to speak, what crime is commited with that?

I don't udnerstand you. How could you miss my point again. I will rephrase it:

Have you asked anybody if such addition is needed and wanted? Have you realised that it's not only up to you if mods/guilds want you and the Council as addition. It's just a sign of complete lack of respect. You behave like you know best, and yes, I'm aware of your long term experience as a player.

 

Once again sorry for being mean, sarcastic, for being evil and not seeing your rights. I know I'm not as experienced player as you, but with all respect, could you read my words and give my answers?

Vanyel

Edited by vanyel

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Another try.

Jez, with all respect, too many typos, misinterpretations in this thread. You shall start thinking of what you're posting.

 

it was just a typo which has been edited

 

Once again. You should start controlling your own words. You managed to suggested that guilds not joining you should be called outlaw. Then you claimed it's misinterpretation.

Now you said the chaos is not bad. Ok, I accept that it's a type, what doesn't change the point. Think twice before posting. Read what you want to post. Each mistake, especially such serious as 'outlaw' phrase should never have occured in such important thread.

 

I am aware of the fact that my words are counted in this thread, sine i am being attacked on every letter.

 

 

Its clear, even you know it, the mods cannot do all the work, so the Council can fill in the blanks, so to speak, what crime is commited with that?

I don't udnerstand you. How could you miss my point again. I will rephrase it:

Have you asked anybody if such addition is needed and wanted? Have you realised that it's not only up to you if mods/guilds want you and the Council as addition. It's just a sign of complete lack of respect. You behave like you know best, and yes, I'm aware of your long term experience as a player.

 

Yes I have spoken to several players, even HIGH placed players, and they agree with me that the helping part on el can be much improved. The moderators are extremely busy so the Council can fill in the blanks, as i said before.

 

Once again sorry for being mean, sarcastic, for being evil and not seeing your rights. I know I'm not as experienced player as you, but with all respect, could you read my words and give my answers?

Vanyel

 

I just did. And im asking again for a lock on this thread.

 

Jez

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Jez, with all respect, too many typos, misinterpretations in this thread. You shall start thinking of what you're posting.

 

it was just a typo which has been edited

I am aware of the fact that my words are counted in this thread, sine i am being attacked on every letter.

 

Erm... You probably misunderstood me, I wasn't correcting typo. I stated that chaos is something we rather don't need. I've never attacked anybody for typo - why should I? I'm making zillions of them myslelf.

 

Yes I have spoken to several players, even HIGH placed players, and they agree with me that the helping part on el can be much improved. The moderators are extremely busy so the Council can fill in the blanks, as i said before.

The question is who you want the council to be addition to? To players or to mods. From your posts it seems that to mods. Reasonable would be talking to them as well.

 

I ask not to lock this thread. (I'm moderator on this forums, but since I'm taking part in discussion I don't moderate this thread). The discussion here is very interesting and important. Please, try to understand me, Kit, Lady Wolf and others. We're not against you personally. We are just worrying about the community.

You want to improve the community by this Council. We're afraid that the Council might do a lot of damages. We're pointing out our worries, doubts, thoughts. We're asking for answers to them. If you don't have them now, maybe isntead of overreacting you could ask for them on the Council forums? That's why it was created. You don't have to answer right now. Take time and answer when there are answers.

I would like to stress that I am not attacking the Council itself. Just at the moment I don't see much good it might do, I see, though, at least couple areas it could break the balance.

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Just out of curiousity, how are you planning on getting more people to help newbies, force them? Either people are or arent going to help newbs, you cant really make them do what they dont want to do....

 

 

Nobody is forcing anyone, but those that sighned up for the Council know the intentions of the Council..:D

 

Jez

I am sorry, this really doesnt make any sense to me... I just want you to explain... You say this will help newbs, but if someone is going to help newbs, wouldnt they already be doing it? What will this change then?

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I'm not going to reiterate that this is like beating a dead horse. NOONE IS ATTACKING YOU PERSONALLY JEZE! Noone is opposing the council. We are just worried about the true motives that are behind it, and about how this can be truly beneficial to the game that we all love.

 

Why is it so hard to look past yourself and see that this is all that me, Ghrae, Vanyel, Marantz,Arnieman and any others need? We just need answers to questions and concerns?

 

I can tell you right now tho, I am truly worried if the true intentions of this council are clear. It bothers me that you think you need to be and addition to mods. Would it not make more sense for Roja to allow them to elect more NH's and do internal promotions to compensate? That way there is more official "help" that can be given? How can you be so sure that the council's way of thinking is not going to interfere with the workings of the game and make the mods job even harder?

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<_< Hello, I am new to the guild leader stuff. But I think that if we over do this stuff we will lose sight of the fact that it is a game. I love this community game because of the many different players and their good & bad habits, good & bad moods, good & bad behavier. Without it all, I think it would be boring and not worth the time. We cannot become dictators and a bunch of enforcers making everybody a drone. Visit my guild page and this is what our guild feels is right. Others may not agree but it's ours. Each guild should take care of it's own. We make it a point to help a new player each day we are in the game playing. So please don't make it so real life with kangaroo courts and all that. So no more laws and lawyers please. Thank you for reading. :D:icon4: And also, I have met the game mods and I think they are doing a great job in the game. I think they help the new players alot but it is a community and all should help. You get out what you put in. :hiya:

 

http://eternallands.bravehost.com/ visit here soon

Edited by RayGunner

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Funny, I have to agree with Raygunner on the mods doing their jobs - I have talked to several in my playing in EL. I was at one time concerned about if and how mods respond to players, and when I almost posted everything in a public thread, WHICH would have been WRONG, I instead pm'd Aislinn about my concerns. The result that I concluded based on the conversation we had, and my other dealings with mods? Just because we (as players) don't see what WE (as players) think should be done, does not mean that the moderators are ignoring the problem. In other words, just because we don't see what happens, doesn't mean the mods don't take action.

 

I am convinced that if the moderators felt they needed more people to help them, they would ask for such, from people they know they trust. I do not see why a guild council needs to act in place of or in addition to the job the moderators already are doing.

 

As for the newbie helping, I don't think the guild council should be involved in regulating who does this or who should do this in any way. From my experience, having tried to help people on channel 1, and seeing the people at beam helping, I am more convinced that this "help" goes MUCH better if it is done ONLY by people who have no more cause to be there than the desire to help. Telling people that they have to help defeats the purpose of having a person willing to help, in my opinion.

 

I'm getting sick of drumming the same points, and I think everyone else is, too. I just want to know what we need a council for, when everything that's been proposed is already handled elsewhere?

Edited by Arnieman

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"I never judged him for being bannedfrom the forums, i was merely pointing that out sice he stated never to be in any trouble with the mods, thats all.

 

Jez"

 

:P Erm thats NOT what I said at all, try READING what I typed, I said that I HAVE NO PROBLEMS with the Mods, I broke the FORUM RULES and was punished for it, I accepted the punishment. If a player gets sent off in a game for a foul, it doesn`t mean he has a problem with the Ref, it just means he broke the rules. The point I was making which you failed to see, is that I have no problem with how the Mods deal with problems or questions aimed at them. As far as I am aware, NO Mods have an issue or a problem with me.

 

As for you comments on the Council being the "middle man", what makes you think that anyone actually wants somebody else to get involved with an argument over a bag jump, or a spawn steal ?? If its NOT breaking the rules, and the Council have NO POWERS, whats the point in even talking to them? If an OFFICIAL GAME RULE has been broken, then the Mods can be called. Who is going to call someone with NO POWER to do anything except say "Plz dont do that, ya being very naughty" I can imagine some of the replies they`ll get. As Vanyel said, most of the issues you are refering to, are part of the game rules anyway, harrasment, name calling, scamming.....its all been covered. Doesn`t someone telling you off for being bad count as harrasment? Esp when that person ISN`T actually a Mod?

 

And again, the helping New Players, yeah its a great idea, but if your going to ask people from ya own Guild to help anyway, WHY do you need a Council to do so ? I still see no reason to have a Council, and you still haven`t given me any real answers.

 

P.S Ladywolf :lol: Thanks for ya support babes

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Funny, I have to agree with Raygunner on the mods doing their jobs - I have talked to several in my playing in EL. I was at one time concerned about if and how mods respond to players, and when I almost posted everything in a public thread, WHICH would have been WRONG, I instead pm'd Aislinn about my concerns. The result that I concluded based on the conversation we had, and my other dealings with mods? Just because we (as players) don't see what WE (as players) think should be done, does not mean that the moderators are ignoring the problem. In other words, just because we don't see what happens, doesn't mean the mods don't take action.

 

I am convinced that if the moderators felt they needed more people to help them, they would ask for such, from people they know they trust. I do not see why a guild council needs to act in place of or in addition to the job the moderators already are doing.

 

As for the newbie helping, I don't think the guild council should be involved in regulating who does this or who should do this in any way. From my experience, having tried to help people on channel 1, and seeing the people at beam helping, I am more convinced that this "help" goes MUCH better if it is done ONLY by people who have no more cause to be there than the desire to help. Telling people that they have to help defeats the purpose of having a person willing to help, in my opinion.

 

I'm getting sick of drumming the same points, and I think everyone else is, too. I just want to know what we need a council for, when everything that's been proposed is already handled elsewhere?

 

I guess we just dont see eye to eye on that then. I DO feel more help is needed, in every way i said the Council could provide.

 

Once more:

 

1) a.helping out newcomers. The Guilds involved in the Council will ask their members/guildleaders to specify a skill so newcomers know who to turn to with questions about that specific skill.

b. welcoming newcomers at beam/the wraith. At this time, it is not done enough, and new players wander around lost and get frustrated and quit or spam and get punsihed. Thats not realy encouraging to keep on playing imo.

 

2) sort out differences between players. Sometimes 2 players have an issue. mostly based on misunderstandings or even language problems. Suely they can turn to a moderator, but often they dont, for various reasons. If the community knows who to turn to with such an issue, its may be solved.

 

3) adress bad behaving players. Altho with no technical powers, i feel that a good talk can work miracles.Without the interuption of a moderator, without actual punishment, a player can be convinced of shaping up. If talking fails, there can be put out a punishment, like silnce treatment, trading/buying/selling embargo. Offcourse players can laugh in our faces and go on anyway, but i think its worth a shot. In MY experience, it CAN work.

 

3) discuss the game and its features. Within a small group (even all guid reps/leaders present is smaller then an entire comminuty) things can be discussed and an opinion or suggestion may be formed and put either to forums or send to the devs/mods.

 

I know all this is done atm, without a Council, but all individual, with exception of the Moderaters.

But, in my opinion and my experience, it has more effect when its done by an organized group, such as te Council.

 

Im not saying it wil make our World a perfect one, but at least we can try and make it a bit better.

 

I do not see any harm in forming the Council, and doing the things we wanna do, since its all allready done, in a smaller setting.

 

No one is being forced to do anything..how could they be forced anyway? If someone dont wanna join in, they simply dont join in, no hard feelings.

 

As for Wildcars concern about the Council being mod bashers, i dont see why that would happen, we are all after the same goal; make this World a great one to live and play in!

 

As for calling this a World; whats wrong with role playing all of a sudden? Is it only allowed INgame? ^^

 

Jez

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Newbs get TONS of help! I have to say that they dont need more. Theres all sorts of places where one can learn more about the game(example #channel 1 and #hint, #beam etc). most of what newbs learns come from a. mods( #help_me) or the more favorable answer b. many of the nice players here. I learned from channell 1 and many other players. I personaly think that having a united front on newb helping will not help them. Its better the way it is. If we gave all answers to newer players how will they be able to learn on their own? They are not babies that we have to spoonfeed. Instead lets teach them how to pick up the fork. If we have a many people trying to help one person they will get annoyed and stop listening( err i mean reading)

Individual forces will help newbs more than a united group!

 

(Many of us do it not for attention but from the goodness of our heartsso dont try to claim or get fame!)

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I guess we just dont see eye to eye on that then. I DO feel more help is needed, in every way i said the Council could provide.

 

 

As for Wildcars concern about the Council being mod bashers, i dont see why that would happen, we are all after the same goal; make this World a great one to live and play in!

 

 

I've tried to be subtle about my comments but the more you state your reasons the more the true underlying reason is shown Jeze. You feel this is so needed, perhaps...perhaps because you want to be a mod again so badly that you can taste it, and the fact that you can't be eats you up? So why not suggest the next best thing eh? Psuedo-mod. Not all the powers of a mod, but it can serve to stroke that ego.

 

 

I mean, I could be wrong, but then again...I could have just hit the proverbial nail on the head.

 

Either way, this council seriously needs to be halted UNTIL there is a clear concrete plan for it, one that DOESN'T resemble the role that our (well capable) mods already fill.

Edited by LadyWolf

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I've tried to be subtle about my comments but the more you state your reasons the more the true underlying reason is shown Jeze. You feel this is so needed, perhaps...perhaps because you want to be a mod again so badly that you can taste it, and the fact that you can't be eats you up? So why not suggest the next best thing eh? Psuedo-mod. Not all the powers of a mod, but it can serve to stroke that ego.

 

 

I mean, I could be wrong, but then again...I could have just hit the proverbial nail on the head.

 

Either way, this council seriously needs to be halted UNTIL there is a clear concrete plan for it, one that DOESN'T resemble the role that our (well capable) mods already fill.

 

 

well, you've got one thing almost right in this post: its just not that you COULD be wrong, you ARE wrong.

 

But thats ok, we all make mistakes :P

 

Jez

Edited by Jezebelle

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No back up statements jez?(btw its wrong not WRON) We cant go around telling people they are wrong if you cant come up with a statement to back it up. We arent cavemen, we cant just pick at one point in a whole essay"I could be wrong" and use that agaisnt the person. We are civilized people and will not tell people they are wrong just for the sake of it. Just to try to bring a person down a peg who doesnt agree with you? Sounds like a few of the old past tirants...

 

EDIT: Please stop with the colored or bolded statements! Its annoying and it looks like if someone were to scroll down they would only see your" grand theories".

Edited by sparhawk

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No back up statements jez?(btw its wrong not WRON) We cant go around telling people they are wrong if you cant come up with a statement to back it up. We arent cavemen, we cant just pick at one point in a whole essay"I could be wrong" and use that agaisnt the person. We are civilized people and will not tell people they are wrong just for the sake of it. Just to try to bring a person down a peg who doesnt agree with you? Sounds like a few of the old past tirants...

 

EDIT: Please stop with the colored or bolded statements! Its annoying and it looks like if someone were to scroll down they would only see your" grand theories".

 

 

oh come on Hawk, do you realy expect me to respond on inuendos about me wanting back my mod status? No way is that the case, not for quit some time now. I am very happy helping out ingame as i do today, i just feel it neds to be done by more players, in a friendly and fun way.

Did it ever come to your mind that we, the older players can learn ALOT from newcomers too? New brooms and such..?

 

Its a two way street, the Council, in all its aspects.

 

Enough 'back up statements"?

 

Jez

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Yes Jeze, I could be wrong, but I'm not. You know it(whether you will admitt it or not) I know it, and so do alot of the people that have posted. Nothing you say will convince me otherwise. I wish I had my chatlogs from when I was in W&W, I'd pm them to you as a gentle reminder if I still had them.(Where you informed me of the surprise for after the big release??)

 

Yes, I am a former W&W guildie, that is all I'll say about that.

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Given the fact that I was in W&W for quite some time, and given the fact that I`ve seen quite a few posts in the Guild section, I`m a little worried that this Council will turn into a Mod Bashing exercise.

 

 

Yes Jeze, I could be wrong, but I'm not. You know it(whether you will admitt it or not) I know it, and so do alot of the people that have posted. Nothing you say will convince me otherwise. I wish I had my chatlogs from when I was in W&W, I'd pm them to you as a gentle reminder if I still had them.(Where you informed me of the surprise for after the big release??)

 

Yes, I am a former W&W guildie, that is all I'll say about that.

 

 

 

 

I've tried to be subtle about my comments but the more you state your reasons the more the true underlying reason is shown Jeze. You feel this is so needed, perhaps...perhaps because you want to be a mod again so badly that you can taste it, and the fact that you can't be eats you up? So why not suggest the next best thing eh? Psuedo-mod. Not all the powers of a mod, but it can serve to stroke that ego.

 

 

I mean, I could be wrong, but then again...I could have just hit the proverbial nail on the head.

 

Either way, this council seriously needs to be halted UNTIL there is a clear concrete plan for it, one that DOESN'T resemble the role that our (well capable) mods already fill.

 

 

well, you've got one thing almost right in this post: its just not that you COULD be wrong, you ARE wrong.

 

But thats ok, we all make mistakes :P

 

Jez

 

 

Considering this - I don't have any reason not to trust LadyWolf and Wildcard and the fact they both were in W&W there might be grain of truth in it. It's sad...

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Yes Jeze, I could be wrong, but I'm not. You know it(whether you will admitt it or not) I know it, and so do alot of the people that have posted. Nothing you say will convince me otherwise. I wish I had my chatlogs from when I was in W&W, I'd pm them to you as a gentle reminder if I still had them.(Where you informed me of the surprise for after the big release??)

 

Yes, I am a former W&W guildie, that is all I'll say about that.

 

 

lol, how does your ultimate revenge taste, Ladywolf?

 

I could come up with a few chatlogs of my own to send to you..about your feelings for the moderation here and all..but i wont..since I have better things to do with my time.

 

Yes, we all know there was a time when i wanted to be back on the mod team, but that was worked out and I stepped back, for the sake of the team and the game, and those who need to know, know that.

 

Now all i want is to combine t6he knowledge we al have to make this game even better, again, I see NO evil in that.

If it fails, so be it, if it works, great.

 

What do we have to loose?

 

Again I ask for a closer of this thread, since I see it more and more end up in flames.

 

Jez

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I could come up with a few chatlogs of my own to send to you..about your feelings for the moderation here and all..but i wont..since I have better things to do with my time.

 

 

 

Listen here Jezebelle, my business has never been kept private and secret, so I doubt there is much you could produce to hurt me. Now you show your true colors. Thanks for the display :P

Edited by LadyWolf

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I could come up with a few chatlogs of my own to send to you..about your feelings for the moderation here and all..but i wont..since I have better things to do with my time.

 

Again, a statement fails to penetrate that thick skull of yours, I said PM THEM TO YOU, NOT MAKE PUBLIC!!

 

Listen here Jezebelle, my business has never been kept private and secret, so I doubt there is much you could produce to hurt me. Now you show your true colors. Thanks for the display :P

 

 

I suggest you READ my post before jumping to conclusions :(

 

Edit: this was posted after Ladywolf acused me of making HER chatslogs public After she found out her misread, she took away that sentence out of her post. I thought I would explain that just so theres no confusion :)

 

Jez

Edited by Jezebelle

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