Jump to content
Eternal Lands Official Forums
Jezebelle

Calling all guildleaders

Recommended Posts

Depends on the intent. I think the intent here is to have a group that aids in sharing information on many aspects of gameplay. It should NOT be a total bitch session. If it is gameplay issues then I think the guildless should or could be included. If done right perhaps we can even bring a unified voice to issues beyond our control such as game changes. Could be very positive. If it is nothing more than a witch hunt and crying room count me out. If we discuss relevent issues, problem players and use it to resolve differences count me in.

 

Storm

 

 

I think you should read my posts again, Storm! I have no intention to bitch or moan about ingame issues, i wanna make this Council WORK with those issues.

 

Please..read back my posts..:blink:

 

Jez

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think you should read my posts again, Storm! I have no intention to bitch or moan about ingame issues, i wanna make this Council WORK with those issues.

 

Please..read back my posts..:icon13:

 

Jez

 

I understand that, I just wanted it restated, which is why I started off by saying "I think the intent here is to have a group that aids in sharing information on many aspects of gameplay". A couple people were already statring to B and C it seemed and thought it prudent to restate the purpose. Please read back my post! :icon13:

*hug*

 

Storm

Edited by storm

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks all, for supporting this idea, we can and we will make a difference in this world, if we stand united :(

 

Now..all who are in favour of a Guild Council, and havent allready,pls register on our forums and leve me a PM there, so i know you registrated for the Council, and not for our guild, ok ?

http://wandw.freesuperhost.com/phpBB2/

 

Jez

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry jeeeeeeeeezebell i think that it is a horrrible idea like what if i am guildmaster someone like "ME" heh then your lil councill we talking about people like me if i a guildmaster

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry jeeeeeeeeezebell i think that it is a horrrible idea like what if i am guildmaster someone like "ME" heh then your lil councill we talking about people like me if i a guildmaster

 

 

benhe, sweetie..thats the whole point..even when guilds(masters) dont get along ingame..the Council Meetings are THE place to set aside our differences for that time beeing..:)

 

Jez

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Greetings from High Council of Dawn,

 

Although we decided to set up such an interguild council with out allies, we will participate also in this one.

 

It came to our attention that a guild forum was proposed to host a separate section for the Interguild Council issues. With all do respect for the initiators of this proposal, Dawn guild won't agree with that but instead proposes the creation of a brand new forum for an Interguild Council. A Interguild Council deserves its own forum - not a section within a clan forum. This will break the neutral allure of the forum, making some of the guild leaders feel unconfortable with the Council itself or offering even moral advantages to the hosting clan.

 

Lady Reni raised a very interesting problem regarding the guildless players and the need for them to participate in the discutions regarding the future of the community.

 

In our vision, the proposal has good and bad parts. If a voting system would be implemented - the presence of guildless players could mean a good way to change the results within the polls, since there are many "alternate" chars - well developed and known - that can cast their vote if invited. At least theorethically there is only guild master for any guild. Therefore our suggestion would be for the guildless players to organize their own structure that can communicate with the Interguild Council and for the interguild Council to be represented by guild masters only or by a representative (coleader). We underline that, because an representative without the rights offered by the rank of plenipotentiary ambassador within his/her guild can't speak for the guild vision itself. Within this context, we suggest that the representatives to be nomitated by guild masters only, so we ae sure they trully represent the guild.

 

Many of the people here mentioned that the representatives should be well known by the community. The Dawn High Council considers that this way of evaluating people is very subjective.

Edited by Damned_Angel

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Greetings from High Council of Dawn,

 

Although we decided to set up such an interguild council with out allies, we will participate also in this one.

 

It came to our attention that a guild forum was proposed to host a separate section for the Interguild Council issues. With all do respect for the initiators of this proposal, Dawn guild won't agree with that but instead proposes the creation of a brand new forum for an Interguild Council. A Interguild Council deserves its own forum - not a section within a clan forum. This will break the neutral allure of the forum, making some of the guild leaders feel unconfortable with the Council itself or offering even moral advantages to the hosting clan.

 

Lady Reni raised a very interesting problem regarding the guildless players and the need for them to participate in the discutions regarding the future of the community.

 

In our vision, the proposal has good and bad parts. If a voting system would be implemented - the presence of guildless players could mean a good way to change the results within the polls, since there are many "alternate" chars - well developed and known - that can cast their vote if invited. At least theorethically there is only guild master for any guild. Therefore our suggestion would be for the guildless players to organize their own structure that can communicate with the Interguild Council and for the interguild Council to be represented by guild masters only or by a representative (coleader). We underline that, because an representative without the rights offered by the rank of plenipotentiary ambassador within his/her guild can't speak for the guild vision itself. Within this context, we suggest that the representatives to be nomitated by guild masters only, so we ae sure they trully represent the guild.

 

Many of the people here mentioned that the representatives should be well known by the community. The Dawn High Council considers that this way of evaluating people is very subjective.

 

 

 

I absolutely agree to the neutral forum. I merely used that one to make it easier for everyone, but I too, had reservations..:)

Any volonteers to set up such forum?

 

As for the guildless players; IO allready stated they can make their own council and have a representative in the Guild Council.

 

 

And, but that speaks for itself..abuse should mean blacklisted from any council.

 

Jez

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I absolutely agree to the neutral forum. I merely used that one to make it easier for everyone, but I too, had reservations..:)

Any volonteers to set up such forum?

 

As for the guildless players; IO allready stated they can make their own council and have a representative in the Guild Council.

 

 

And, but that speaks for itself..abuse should mean blacklisted from any council.

 

Jez

 

 

The forum was set up: EL Interguilds Forum

 

We have to decide on a name for the council, by default it will be "EL Interguild Council". But this can be changed anytime.

 

The guild masters will have to sign in - there should be some ranks created specifically for each of them as "W&W Guild Master, AID Guild Master, *CO* Guild Master etc - or maybe *Riva Ambassador, KOS Ambassador, etc

 

These names are just examples, just the first ones that came to my mind this morning - and i'm sleepy. :shame:

 

Also we will need some sections - for the discutions to be a bit organized.

 

Maybe "Council's Round table" for eventual polls and proposals for polls.

I don't know if "Diplomacy" or what else. (we have these in Dawn High Council + extra exclusivelly guild related boards so now is all i can think of) But all the suggestions will be amazing.

 

I will try to browse all the posts again to see if i can find subjects of interest for guild representatives.

 

Till then i think it will be a good thing to register and so on.

 

We should decide if we want the boards available to everyone or just to registered users (private and hidden for other people browsing the forums).

Edited by Damned_Angel

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've designed something you may want to take a look.

 

I appologize if not all your ideas were implemented - i've tryed to follow all your posts and ideas, but i might forgotten something.

 

Therefore my excuses if i forgot anything - i hope this will be a first step.

 

http://www.phpbbserver.com/phpbb/index.php?mforum=eligc

 

 

Thank you, it looks good.

I do have a few questions/remarks tho:

 

1) I would like to see only guildmaster can acces these forums, or at least the sections that are esp for the Guildleaders

 

2) there should be a Daily Board section, for the about 5 or 6 guildleaders that will be chosen out of all guikdleaders to discuss daily matters

 

3) Is this an EL forum? That wpuild mean most moderators can see, read and use these forums. Is there a possibility to exclude them, for they are not (all) guildleaders and therefor should have no acces?

If not, i would like to see a independant forum made, not related to EL forums at all. I could be wrong tho, my technical knowledge doesnt reach that far, lol

 

Jez

Edited by Jezebelle

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Thank you, it looks good.

I do have a few questions/remarks tho:

 

1) I would like to see only guildmaster can acces these forums, or at least the sections that are esp for the Guildleaders

 

This will be done. As soon as 6-7 guildmasters register, the thread's status would be changed to private/hidden - this means: guest can't see/read/browse the threads - registered members will be able to see/browse/post in the general section - ONLY guildmasters will be able to see post in the Council Sections so they will be the only ones with this priviledge. So technically speaking you will need a certain permission to access the Council Threads on the forum. Even if the forums will have 3000 registered users - only the guildmasters can access the Council threads. Is, if you want like in the guild sistem - let's say only levels 19/20 access all threads, level 5-18 only some threads, while level 5 only the public section.

 

2) there should be a Daily Board section, for the about 5 or 6 guildleaders that will be chosen out of all guikdleaders to discuss daily matters

 

Done. :-)

 

3) Is this an EL forum? That wpuild mean most moderators can see, read and use these forums.

 

 

No Jezz. This forum in external and has no connection with EL forums. The server is a public one, doesnt have any connection with EL.

 

 

Is there a possibility to exclude them, for they are not (all) guildleaders and therefor should have no acces?

If not, i would like to see a independant forum made, not related to EL forums at all. I could be wrong tho, my technical knowledge doesnt reach that far, lol

 

Jez

 

As is said above. There will be an ierarchy regarding the information.

 

The guest section will be available to everyone including guests. This will allow newbbies to post ask any questions or to post any help_me topic they need.

 

The general section - would be available to all registered users

 

The Council section - would be available exclusivelly to the registered guild masters.

 

 

Therefore to answer to your question, the guild masters/representatives only would be able to read certain section. Lol but if a mod is a guildmaster/representative he can gain the access through his/her position lol - i guess.

Edited by Damned_Angel

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

Therefore to answer to your question, the guild masters/representatives only would be able to read certain section. Lol but if a mod is a guildmaster/representative he can gain the access through his/her position lol - i guess.

 

 

haha, I see, and im glad you know what I mean :)

And yes, offcourse if a mod is a guildleader he/she will have acces, no prob at all.

 

 

As for the rest; Good job :P I think we can make this work!

 

For those that allready registrated at W&W forum: sorry guys..lol..you have to do it again..:P on the forum posted in the post above..

 

*hugs*

jez

Edited by Jezebelle

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Trojan_Knight

Before I get to into this topic.. I would like to say, howdy to some of yall that I have not seen in a while.. Its been a long time.. Im still not able to get on the game. But, Im glad to see that some of you that Im friends with are doing ok.

 

Anyways, onto the topic at hand.. Like previously mentioned this is a great idea that has been tried a few prior times to my knowledge. And also as stated they phased out.. The reason for the phasing out is somewhat really unknown to me. But in all honesty I thought they were great ideas and a great way to possibly help the community of EL.

 

For the most part I think that they began with all kinds of hype. But possibly phased out do to, lack of organization, or possibly a lack of having equal rights with in each meeting of clans/guilds/other communities. Now dont get me wrong, the last similar topic to this. Was better then its previous. But still I feel as if a hard written, plan will be needed for it to succeed.

 

Currently as you know, from either knowing me if some of ya do or by reading the above.. That I am unable to get on the game do to my graphics card not being "great enough" to get on the game. So any meetings that take place on the game. Will result in me not being allowed to attend. So if this is strict to guild masters only. Then I guess ~LE~ will not be able to do so.. Unless you would allow my acting leader or one of my high ranking associates with in my community of ~LE~ to attend on my behalf. Any meetings that would be forum related. Depending on when they are held. I would be able to attend.

 

So with the above being stated.. If allowed to attend in the manners of which ~LE~ is subject to. I would have to say.. That for the most part you can count ~LE~ in. Please let me know..

 

Regards

 

Trojan Knight

Legends of the Empire

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I originally posted a reply, then deleted it. I felt that I need to think about it some more and felt that my first reply may have come across harsh. But now I have thought about it some more and here are my thoughts:

 

This is a regurgitated concept. We've seen it a few times in the past as others have pointed out. And it's always refreshing to see how many raise their hands to say "count me in." I mean, it's nice to know that so many are quick to agree that it would be nice to live in a world errr... game where we are all nice to each other. For that, I applaud everyone who is in favor of this concept and their enthusiasm.

 

But the reality of this "concept" is something that needs be taken into consideration before we all jump on Jeze's bandwagon. There are many details that have either been purposely left out or negligently ignored. And without some details how can someone really say "yay" to something like this.

 

Many ideas start off as idealistic and even popular, but we have already seen this one with a dark side: making non-participating guilds outlaws?! I have to agree with Kala here... duress is not a valid way to garner support. I was appalled by that. And despite Jezebelle's claim that it was misunderstood, I can not for the life of me see how it could have meant anything else.

 

But for the sake of arguement, let's ignore that very scary insight into non-compliance. What do we have left? Guild Leaders get to decide on who is punishable and who isn't. And when some guilds see an action as wrong and other guilds do not, then what? Majority vote? Sounds simple, doesn't it? So how do you guarantee that players will get a fair vote? Let's face it, alliances, popularity and even bribed votes can all cast an unfair shadow on players.

 

How does a minority group get fair reprensetation? What's to stop the majority from simply ignoring their interests or quickly voting against them? Hmmmm?

 

Who determines the five council leaders? And what are the qualifications? And how much power do they have beyond a normal guild leader in the council? What are their duties? Responsibilities? And who holds them in check when they do not perform or do not perform to the expectations of the council as a whole?

 

I believe I heard the word "meetings" mentioned a time or two. Eternal Lands has crossed common barriers and is an international game. There is strong support from Europe, Australia and America. Not to mention the lesser represented, but still important, other countries. And yet the biggest problem is uniting them across the barrier known as Time Zones. How will these meetings be scheduled so that all can attend them? How will these meetings compensate for school? work? real life requirements that we all must face?

 

Concerning helping newbies. I don't think EL will ever look down upon those that truly help new players, either by advice, by supplying them or by setting an example. However, does there need to be a council to help a newbie? I've often been impressed by the stray player who does so just because he wants to or now can. He didn't need any approval or group backing. He (or she) just did it. If you wish to help, then please do so... but I fail to see how helping a newbie needs the organization of a council to do so.

 

And who is the council to determine how someone is to play the game? This is a RPG - Role Playing Game. So if someone wishes to join Eternal Lands and play the role of a thief or a "bad guy" should they now feel the wrath of the council and be excommunicated? Are we now the Catholic Church in deciding who can and can not play the game?

 

I've had my death bag "jumped". I've been PK'd when exploring a new maps. I think we all have. And yes, it IS frustrating. But we've also had our death bags gaurded and returned by complete strangers. And we've had people we've only known in passing stand up for us in a PK map. I'm sorry, but as frustrating as the bad times are, you can not have the bad without the good. Communism is a great IDEA but it has failed in reality.

 

You want people to sign up? Then I think that many of these issues (and probably many more that I have not thought of) need to be addressed. How can one vote when one doesn't know how it will work? I will not and can not join something that may be created on principles of good but may only result in abuse and corruption.

 

Of course, this can not be an official answer from CEL. You see, despite being one of the guild leaders... despite having been there when the guild was created two years ago... despite being a mod... and everything else that I have done along the way, I do not technically hold the position as "Guild Leader". Lotharion has had a case of "real life" and has not been able to join us for several months. Although we do expect him to return early in the coming year, that is still a couple of months off. So I guess CEL will be forced to be an outlaw guild. And not because of the myriad of issues I have suggested above, but by the one rule that has been explained: only guild leaders can be on the council and have access to the forums.

 

For the rest of you who have previously supported this idea... and even to those that still do, I hope that you can find a way through these issues, I wish you the best of luck.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I originally posted a reply, then deleted it. I felt that I need to think about it some more and felt that my first reply may have come across harsh. But now I have thought about it some more and here are my thoughts:

 

This is a regurgitated concept. We've seen it a few times in the past as others have pointed out. And it's always refreshing to see how many raise their hands to say "count me in." I mean, it's nice to know that so many are quick to agree that it would be nice to live in a world errr... game where we are all nice to each other. For that, I applaud everyone who is in favor of this concept and their enthusiasm.

thank you..

But the reality of this "concept" is something that needs be taken into consideration before we all jump on Jeze's bandwagon. There are many details that have either been purposely left out or negligently ignored. And without some details how can someone really say "yay" to something like this.

 

It is not my bandwagon..it is a new feature i hope to realise with the help of others.

 

Many ideas start off as idealistic and even popular, but we have already seen this one with a dark side: making non-participating guilds outlaws?! I have to agree with Kala here... duress is not a valid way to garner support. I was appalled by that. And despite Jezebelle's claim that it was misunderstood, I can not for the life of me see how it could have meant anything else.

I am glad some, even most DID see the misinterpretation of my words

 

But for the sake of arguement, let's ignore that very scary insight into non-compliance. What do we have left? Guild Leaders get to decide on who is punishable and who isn't. And when some guilds see an action as wrong and other guilds do not, then what? Majority vote? Sounds simple, doesn't it? So how do you guarantee that players will get a fair vote? Let's face it, alliances, popularity and even bribed votes can all cast an unfair shadow on players.

 

Guildleaders are (at least in the old days and I do hope and im my experience most still are) well-experienced players with leadership quealities that can put away personal issues with guilds and players to be able to be unbiased in handling issues.

How does a minority group get fair reprensetation? What's to stop the majority from simply ignoring their interests or quickly voting against them? Hmmmm?

 

As allrerady stated, the Guild Council does not have or not will use MOD powers to punish anyone. And its my experience that a good talk with someone usualy can solve issues better then a kick, mute or ban.

Who determines the five council leaders? And what are the qualifications? And how much power do they have beyond a normal guild leader in the council? What are their duties? Responsibilities? And who holds them in check when they do not perform or do not perform to the expectations of the council as a whole?

 

the Daily Board will be voted by all Guild Leaders who apply for the Council, it will be done by a POLL.

Their duties are e.g. to make a list of things to discuss for the monthly meetings of the Council, adress smaller issues etc. This all will be discussed at the first Guild Council Meeting.

 

I believe I heard the word "meetings" mentioned a time or two. Eternal Lands has crossed common barriers and is an international game. There is strong support from Europe, Australia and America. Not to mention the lesser represented, but still important, other countries. And yet the biggest problem is uniting them across the barrier known as Time Zones. How will these meetings be scheduled so that all can attend them? How will these meetings compensate for school? work? real life requirements that we all must face?

 

This is always a hard thing to do, dealing with the Time Zones. But as you know in your job as a mod, it can work, if everyone is willing.

 

Concerning helping newbies. I don't think EL will ever look down upon those that truly help new players, either by advice, by supplying them or by setting an example. However, does there need to be a council to help a newbie? I've often been impressed by the stray player who does so just because he wants to or now can. He didn't need any approval or group backing. He (or she) just did it. If you wish to help, then please do so... but I fail to see how helping a newbie needs the organization of a council to do so.

Its always good to see players help eachother. I have reasons enough to have put this duty on the list but i will not discuss them here due to Moderating Rules.

 

And who is the council to determine how someone is to play the game? This is a RPG - Role Playing Game. So if someone wishes to join Eternal Lands and play the role of a thief or a "bad guy" should they now feel the wrath of the council and be excommunicated? Are we now the Catholic Church in deciding who can and can not play the game?

Same goes for official Moderators, isnt it?

 

I've had my death bag "jumped". I've been PK'd when exploring a new maps. I think we all have. And yes, it IS frustrating. But we've also had our death bags gaurded and returned by complete strangers. And we've had people we've only known in passing stand up for us in a PK map. I'm sorry, but as frustrating as the bad times are, you can not have the bad without the good. Communism is a great IDEA but it has failed in reality.

If you wanna talk communisme, Kit, feel free to pm me ingame, this is not the place to do so, and i am offended you refer to communisme regarding the Guild Council.

 

You want people to sign up? Then I think that many of these issues (and probably many more that I have not thought of) need to be addressed. How can one vote when one doesn't know how it will work? I will not and can not join something that may be created on principles of good but may only result in abuse and corruption.

 

Again, we will vote for a Daily Council once is clear how many guildleaders are interested in sighning up, and after they do and dont agree with the majority, they are free to leave.

Of course, this can not be an official answer from CEL. You see, despite being one of the guild leaders... despite having been there when the guild was created two years ago... despite being a mod... and everything else that I have done along the way, I do not technically hold the position as "Guild Leader". Lotharion has had a case of "real life" and has not been able to join us for several months. Although we do expect him to return early in the coming year, that is still a couple of months off. So I guess CEL will be forced to be an outlaw guild. And not because of the myriad of issues I have suggested above, but by the one rule that has been explained: only guild leaders can be on the council and have access to the forums.

 

you can always sighn up for the Council of non-tagged ones.

 

For the rest of you who have previously supported this idea... and even to those that still do, I hope that you can find a way through these issues, I wish you the best of luck.

 

we will do our best.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sadly, though I see that my post was read and replied too, I do not see the detail answers I was hoping for.

 

If I am to be part of this, it will be through CEL. And as a guildie of CEL, I will recommend that until such time as all my points are addressed in full and to a satisfactoring level, that we should not participate.

 

I do hope that everyone else here takes the time to raise these same issues (and others). Do not be carried away with an idea when you do not know how the idea will be implemented.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sadly, though I see that my post was read and replied too, I do not see the detail answers I was hoping for.

 

If I am to be part of this, it will be through CEL. And as a guildie of CEL, I will recommend that until such time as all my points are addressed in full and to a satisfactoring level, that we should not participate.

 

I do hope that everyone else here takes the time to raise these same issues (and others). Do not be carried away with an idea when you do not know how the idea will be implemented.

 

 

the detailed answer you are after will be determined by the Guild Council, not 1 or 2 here on forum.

After all, this will be a democratic Council, in which everyone has a vote and is counted for.

You sted you are not a guildleader, so you will not be in the position to take place in the Guild Council, unless chosen by the Guildless Council that someone else volontered to set up.

 

I hope that satisfies your hunger for details.

And please, if you are only posting here to be negative, stop posting, you have made your point clear enough.

 

Jez

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

And please, if you are only posting here to be negative, stop posting, you have made your point clear enough.

 

Jez

 

Democratic? But if my opinion is not one that YOU like I'm asked to leave? I hope that when such questions are brought up in the meeting that fall on kinder souls than yourself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

And please, if you are only posting here to be negative, stop posting, you have made your point clear enough.

 

Jez

 

Democratic? But if my opinion is not one that YOU like I'm asked to leave? I hope that when such questions are brought up in the meeting that fall on kinder souls than yourself.

 

 

I was simply saying, that details are to be worked out yet, this forum is not the place to do so. If you are interested in setting up this guild council, pls register on the therefor set up forum, and we will take it from there.

And again; and perhaps this will make my point clear about the qualities of a Guildleader; a guildleader should be able to put away personal issues for a greater good. I get the feeling you do not have those qualities. The again, if Im wrong, pls proof my wrong in becoming part of the non-guildleaders council and perhaps you will get voted to sit in the Guild Council so you can express your ideas.

As long as thats not the case, a discussion with you is rather pointless here.

 

Jez

 

 

 

Shouldnt this guild idea have its own forum?

 

 

We do ;)

 

http://www.phpbbserver.com/phpbb/index.php?mforum=eligc

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×