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Items cooldown

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problem: not being able to escape a group when attacked

note: this is not a PK issue. multi maps include non PK maps. and PK maps include non multi maps

soln 1: teamwork. if you wanna fight a bunch of people, you don't do it alone. even without any forks. as the fight ends, we return to original problem, but you're losing anyway

soln 2: enriched diss rings. multi- friendly. freezes all opponents attacking you for 15sec or whatever. as a rare item, this will drive some money to the crafters and give them something new to play with

soln 3: this is the current one, which the objectors seem to miss. try it out. then, when you find out how much of a hassle it is, adjust it so that it's reasonable. 1 diss ring per 2sec won't happen anymore... 1 per 10sec means they're not much use... so what happens? experimentation, and they get tuned.

 

issue: makes fighting harder

note on fighting animals/monsters: come prepared. have your mana topped up before starting to fight. have someone to watch your bag should you die. avoid multi- maps i you can't handle them. all the current stuff just a little more-so

note on PK: the other dude has the same problem. ergo, it's less of an issue for PKers. this leaves the problem above, already with 3 proposed, workable solns

 

now. that should be the PK issues covered (and remember that this is a trial, don't expect it to be the same now as in 2 months). any different issues that you can bring to ent?

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People complaining about not enough mana, maybe they should increase their mana max points by investing their pick points accordingly?

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Question: Would Potions of Feasting be categorised as Food or Potions? (or both?)

 

If it's Potions (and not Food), then a strategy could be to:

 

1) Eat Cooked Meat

2) Manufacture whatever

3) Drink Potion of Feasting while the Food category cools down

4) Manufacture whatever

5) Eat Cooked Meat while the Potions category cools down

6) Manufacture whatever

7) Drink Potion of Feasting, etc.

Edited by Shouja

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It is food, as it modifies the food points.

However, it's cooldown will be very small, so it can easely become the manufacturer's best friend.

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Hmmm... in that case, it looks like feasting pots will become the next big level-up mechanism for potion-makers. The ingredients are cheap, the process is cyclical (make potion of feasting, drink potion of feasting, make potion of feasting using recycled vial, etc.), and the cooldown value is low. Not to mention the price is going to skyrocket. Maybe NPC prices for the book and the actual potions will need to be adjusted for this.

 

 

The food points given by Potion of Feasting is 50.

The food cost of making a Potion of Feasting is 10.

Therefore, you can make 4-5 Potions of Feasting per one consumed, based on food.

 

Assuming that a Potion of Feasting takes 3 seconds to make, and the item cooldown for it is 5 seconds, you can get into a sustainable pattern of pot-making quite easily. Making 2 potions of Feasting (6 seconds, -20 food) would be enough to take you over the time limit for the food cooldown (5 seconds), and you could eat again (+50 food). That way, you could even eat Cooked Meat (+25 food, ?? seconds) once in a while and get away with it.

 

~Shouja~

 

 

EDIT: Admittedly, I'm a newbie at summoning and PKing, but from what I can figure out of the stats, the best cape/perk to get right now would probably be the Conjurer to halve all mana costs for summoning, since SRs would take longer to use now. Also, Fast Regen might get a boost in popularity as well.

 

Another point though, is that I can see people spending even MORE pickpoints on Will now, since that would raise both health and mana. Since mana restoration (ie. drinking SRs) AND health restoration (usage of the "Restoration" spell that uses up precious amounts of mana and hence makes you reluctant to use it until really necessary) has been slowed down, you need a large initial stock of health and mana points before entering combat. So pumping Will would be the best idea.

 

Or another side effect would be people avoiding multi-combat maps from now on. Say, how's progress on the dueling feature coming along?

Edited by Shouja

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The cooldown for the potion of fasting will not be that low (5 seconds). Will be 20 seconds or so.

 

As for the PKers community, about the dissengagement rings, I still don't understand their problem. How is that going to prevent them from fleeing? I thought that by using it you get dissengaged from everyone that is attacking you, no?

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The cooldown for the potion of fasting will not be that low (5 seconds). Will be 20 seconds or so.

 

As for the PKers community, about the dissengagement rings, I still don't understand their problem. How is that going to prevent them from fleeing? I thought that by using it you get dissengaged from everyone that is attacking you, no?

People are smarter than that now, you will be surrounded by 3-4 people, but they will not all attack. Instead, only like 2 will. then when you diss, the others. then diss, the others, it is an endless cycle until you run out of diss rings unless you can use a VOTD or whatev ring

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However, it's cooldown will be very small, so it can easely become the manufacturer's best friend.

(Emphasis added)

The cooldown for the potion of fasting will not be that low (5 seconds). Will be 20 seconds or so.

 

Does that mean that the cooldown for other food items would be even higher than 20 seconds? So something like:

 

Bread - 10 seconds

Vegetables - 20 seconds

Fruit - 40 seconds

Cooked Meat - 1 minute?

 

~Shouja~

 

EDIT again: Right, beside that point, as far as I can foresee, this would not affect the lower levels as much as it would the higher-leveled players. Lower-levels have lower skills, so would take more time to make an item. Thus, the limiting factor on rate of production is not food, but time. However, as your skills progress higher, the time taken to make an object decreases, so the limiting factor is not time anymore, but food.

 

Now, if food has a maximum limit of consumption (50 food points every 20 seconds, assuming that the Potion of Feasting is the most "profitable" thing to eat), that means there will also be a limit on rate of production. (I.e. You can only make a number of items equivalent to a cost of 50 food points every 20 seconds). With that rate of production, you can make one of the following every 20 seconds:

 

- 50 Fire Essences (1 food each)

- 5 Health Essences (9 food each)

- 4 Iron Bars (11 food each)

- 3 Titanium Bars (15 food each)

- 7 Leather Boots (7 food each)

- 2 Fur pants (20 food each)

- 1 Iron Cuisses (28 food each) or 1 Iron Plate Armour (34 food each)

- 2 Rings of VoTD/Naralik/Portland/White Stone (18-24 food each)

- 1 Ring of Desert Pines/Disengagement/Damage (26-36 food each)

- 12 Potions of Coordination (4 food each)

- 2 Potions of Crafting (20 food each)

 

The point I'm trying to make is the following: at higher levels, it won't take the full 20 seconds to make that number of high-level items. This can be solved if the manufacturing process has more steps, of course, as Roja mentioned some time ago in another post. But if the manufacturing process is just a simple click-and-wait-for-5-seconds, then what are manufacturers supposed to do in the rest of the time before they can eat again?

Edited by Shouja

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The cooldown for the potion of fasting will not be that low (5 seconds). Will be 20 seconds or so.

 

As for the PKers community, about the dissengagement rings, I still don't understand their problem. How is that going to prevent them from fleeing? I thought that by using it you get dissengaged from everyone that is attacking you, no?

 

No, 1 ring disses you from 1 attacker

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Have u ever pked some1 that u r talking about "dance moves"?????i guess not so plz spare us those nonsence.....

I was making a small reference to the perks - "There is no fork" and "I can't dance". I remember people used to talk about ICD as free PPs, and no real loss to it - maybe if you can be ganged up on as such, you'll start thinking more about how you can defend yourself, then how to kill the other guy.

 

And I do know this about your precious "PK": it's a little funny how you'll waste your training time to try and take out an unarmed person who doesn't drop anything for you (except maybe veggies). :P

 

Here's the challenge - prove that you actually are the elitists you claim to be - adapt.

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Meh, this thread seems kinda useless at the moment. It seems like Ent already decided on trying this out for a month. We should probably post after the month to see what we think about it then.

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No, 1 ring disses you from 1 attacker

 

I find that hard to believe, especially after reading the source code associated with the diss ring.

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Guest alobar

1 ring disses you from all attackers that you are currently engaged in combat .Like thedoctor said players outsmart that and attack in turns when in groups.But because the ring cooldown is 2 secs and the dis ring freezing effect is 5 secs you can face multiple opponents without risk of dieing.Many times you wont even be hit at all as it takes longer time to successfully launch an attack than use a dis ring.

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most pking is done in turns if you are in a group situation . it just eliminates people who dis and dis and dis. i cant imagine what might happen if you need to wait 2 seconds before using a dis ring again. i can see people dying all the time against higher level pkers which means less people in pk maps and pk maps only filled with high level players. im still trying to imagine what will happen to pk maps in this situation. how long for drinking srs before you can use another i think someoen said 10 seconds? sometimes you need to heal once every 2-3 seconds when you consider what a mirror cape does and being attacked by multiple players. if this is the case then its going to make anyone with a/d below 90 think twice before entering a pk map in case they see one of the people 10 levels above them i mean 10 levels and you cant hit the other player with any sort of accuracy at all. as hard as i try i cant imagine how this will work.

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The diss ring cooldown will not be 2 seconds, it will be something like 15 seconds.

I don't understand though why is it so hard to use a diss ring and immediately use a teleport ring.

 

And I just love to see people complaining about things that don't even happen. (such as: omfg, the diss ring only dissengages you from one enemy).

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And I just love to see people complaining about things that don't even happen. (such as: omfg, the diss ring only dissengages you from one enemy).

no, the complaint is that people have found a way around that

and when you're not really close to the server, that lag-time can make it hard to time two actions right

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well thing sis picture this.... you are fighting an opponent which is your level. then comes another enemy and you dis from your opponent but the high level enemy gets to you before you can teleport... then you cant use another dis for 15 seconds...

 

also what people do is group fight so dis rings are used ALOT in this situation. you dis and you attack someone else and so on. waiting 15 seconds before you can use another dis will eliminate most players from pk maps since they cn realisticaly only dis one person before they get attacked again so really only need 1 dis ring when you get into a pk map?? wy would you need more than 1 and in that case what will this do to the market? just some thoughts.

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People complaining about not enough mana, maybe they should increase their mana max points by investing their pick points accordingly?

Well so we should get like 50 will then? o.0

But even that we caould do only 7-8 restores or so and thats not much at Pking

Now you can do around 20 or even more.

And diss rings...if you get gangbanged by 2 guys stronger than you, youre dead for sure. If you can diss like every 10 sec and diss works for 5 sec...

First one guy attacks you and when you diss, another guy attacks. And you can restore only few time so youre dead fast.

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OMFG, those changes are so cool!!!

____________________________________________

Maybe those changes bring some more strategy and timed actions instead of clicking in pots and restoregs and rings. If you are trully pr0 you will adapt to those changes and will stay pr0.

I am surprised by the fact most pkers want more excitement and dont want stuff like this. Maybe those persons are only interested in excitement when they see something to benefect them.

Oh, and if you see lots of hostile players around you and you dont tele, so either you are in a war (and its common people die in wars) or you are just plain dumb.

I for one welcome the changes.

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why are you commenting on something you have no idea about? you arnt a pker you dont know what pkers want.....

 

lets wait for the month trial and then judge. might be good might be bad we wont know until we test

Edited by Banshen

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why are you commenting on something you have no idea about? you arnt a pker you dont know what pkers want.....

 

lets wait for the month trial and then judge. might be good might be bad we wont know until we test

ROFL, i am not pker in this game. I play other games as well. And i do attack other players (in el) if they are annoying or did something wrong to me. And yeah, i still think people are just welcoming changes if it brings benefict to them.

EDIT: And i do not cared to become a fighter in this game because i think the pickpoint system are unbalenced and being a fighter i would not have ways to spend lots of pickpoints in nexuses and doing well in other skills. And the no class system is actractive for me, and i dont want to give that up and be only a fighter.

Edited by Lorck

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Meh, this thread seems kinda useless at the moment. It seems like Ent already decided on trying this out for a month. We should probably post after the month to see what we think about it then.

 

:D OMFG!!~~11 someone understands...

 

This will happen, this will be tested, if you don't like it, bye bye ;)

 

Wait until the testing occurs, gather your actual observations, then let the development team know how it can be improved once testing is given a chance.

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So after all those delays and promises... what will we get ?

 

Question:

 

If i will making SRs as #1 potmaker after that thing implemented and it will take me 4-5 times longer to make each potion, will that mean ill get 350exp per each (instead of 70 now) and ill be able to sell it for 75gc+vial instead of 15+vial now .... ?

 

Because i don't think so... so it will be another waste of time and even when prices will go up a bit (max to 25gc+vial per SR cuz Mira sells for 30gc) this won't compensate the change, exp will be prolly much slower and you won't get even half of profits from before...

 

So potmakers and alchemists will become poorer and manuers richer. Why ? Cuz making plates and such things in big quantities mean usually like 10-20 each so no big deal about cooldown, and even with that you can make prices down on market, and you need like 5 - 10k pots or esses to get any effects on market prices(if you get any effect)

 

And with PKing:

i dont think prices will raise if there will be much higher chance of loosing stuff while combat, i think it just PKers will fight less and also buy less

or sitting in mine/buying rosto go fight a bit, loose it, trying to get another

 

Ok, back to question.

Will player get the exp and money compensated ?

If yes anyone even cared to try simulate that ? Or are we lab rats ? (sorry LabRat :))

I'snt it just a way to get whole game (exp gaining) slower ?

 

Don't get me wrong:

- implemented delays to get economy/market stable = failed

- implemented EFEs to get economy/market stable = failed

- implementing cooldown to get economy/market stable = ?

 

And how it is, that it always affect players with negative way ?

 

Just some facts and questions ?

 

PS btw. can i ask Entropy to PM me in meanwhile ingame ? some old works and forum problems for ages

Edited by Gen_Axis

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Regarding the manufacturing and the wish to raise demand for rare items:

 

With the cooldown applied to all of those items, Greater Healings and Extra Manas will be not only more wanted but actually necessary. Looking at market channel right now, we see those potions being sold by the 10's, not much more than that. So there's not enough of those potions for all the people the way things are now.

 

With the cooldown for food making it harder to mass produce, we'll see even less of those potions around, since they're based on probability alone.

 

I think it would be a problem to have a use-once item so necessary and also so rare.

 

Maybe the chance of making such potions could raise with the skill, lets say for example that everyone starts with the chance we have nowadays, and then it would increase in a high but also highly descending rate so that you could get very close to have 50% chance of making them if you have a high potion skill, but never really getting to 50%.

Edited by Ornitorrinco

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