Phenic Report post Posted October 1, 2005 The main thing (in my opinion) is that some players are mass-selling to bots, i.e. 1-5k rings or so.Now the bot want/must sell them, thats why (in my opinion) the prices are so low. Solution: Bots must have a buy limit per day or if a bot is "full" with, for example, 100 votd rings,it don't by another load of Votd rings. But this is/could be a bot rule and has nothing to do with game/client/server development. 203511[/snapback] Bots are not the problem. 'Regulating' bots in a way like that negates the purpose of even owning one. They are paid for to make profit with, and they've all found niches for themselves in the marketplace. The niche is there, the bots are only meeting the needs of the consumers. The fact is, there is a massive supply of rings..... and people like the lowest prices they can get when buying. It does not matter whatsoever how much the rings cost to make. It only matters what people are willing to pay. The prices were slipping well before bots like Richery were around.. Yes, be it unfair, annoying, dissatisfying, but that's the way it is. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kendai Report post Posted October 1, 2005 The problem here is the overproduction of rings, pure and simple. Too much supply floods the market and lowers prices. I have seen the same in manufacturing- it is hardly worth making anything out of leather and expecting to sell on the market. All I can say is thank goodness for Trik. This mass production comes from the fact that many items need to be made before a level can be achieved. If less items gave more experience, then less items ultimately would be in the market. I agree with InsanePerson and bkc56 in this case that increasing the time made per ring and increasing the experience could possibly be a solution. I also agree with bkc56 in his point that we learn as much from our failures (perhaps even more so) as from our successes and thus should get some experience (certainly not all) from failures. Yellow_Man's idea on a cap on experience per hour, like in harvesting, might also be handy too if the above idea does not succeed in lessening the supply on rings. The rings' ingredients are expensive enough to create as is, and if one does not get experience for it, it may very well be a deterrent to creating them after the cap has been passed. As for Entropy's idea, it sounds a bit... extreme. I agree with Yellow_Man that the effect of not being able to eat right away would affect the entire game and how it's played. Perhaps it can be tested, but I believe that we need to consider all other possibilities first. No offense meant, g0d ^_^; Mind you, this is all my humble opinion. I have only begun to start crafting, although I can only make gold and silver rings so far, but unless things change, I'll treat it like my summoning level: just something to do when I'm bored of alchemy, fighting, potions, or magic Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warmastermage Report post Posted October 1, 2005 Form a guild the alchemists did it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rasberrybeard Report post Posted October 1, 2005 Go on strike all you want, and exscuse me while I spit in the face of it by buying everything I need from the el shop. Cheers! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ssjgohan Report post Posted October 2, 2005 Thanks for your attention. Attention is one goal of the strike. Second goal is to inform about a serious economic unfairness. Here are some base prices for things used in crafing: Silver Bars - 40gc Gold Bars - 45gc Gem Sanding Paper - 10gc Fire Essence - 3-4gc Water Essence - 8gc (i think) To make 1 Silver Ring: 2 Silver Bars + 3 Fire Essences == 92gc To make 1 Polished Diamond: 30gc Gem Sanders + 16 gc Water Essences Total cost of VOTD Ring: Silver Ring 92gc + Polished Diamond 46gc + 1 Fire Essence 4gc == 142gc (or 138gc if I would by fire essences for 3gc each) If a bot sells VOTD rings for 65gc, I am wondering at which price buys this bot VOTD rings. 20gc? 25gc? 30gc? Think about it. ok i'm not gonna read through the whole post again but you guys need one of my lessons... Drmabuse. read this and i hope you'll get another point of view on the prices. Fire essence: you can harvest all materials and make those yourselves so actually you got those for free and you can scrap them of your prices list. Same goes for water essence. Silver bars: well you already have made your own fire essences for 0gp, coal and silver ore is easily harvested for free in the caves. Silver rings: you take all of the above (that costed nothing at all) and mix them. SO FAR YOU HAVE SPEND: 0GP Polished diamond: you make the water ess yourselves with free to get materials. the diamonds are harvested for free aswell. 3 gem sanders cost 30gp. then you simply mix. SO FAR YOU HAVE SPEND: 30GP you now just mix everything you have made for votd ring and you sell it for 65gp and what is your profit? 35GP what i'm trying to say is: if you look at this from my point of view you make more profit then you think, i see that most materials are free except for the gem sanding papers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr.Mind Report post Posted October 2, 2005 most materials are free except for the gem sanding papers. 204090[/snapback] This pretty much explains why I don't see the current prices as a problem. People complain because they are too lazy to harvest. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ttlanhil Report post Posted October 2, 2005 This pretty much explains why I don't see the current prices as a problem. People complain because they are too lazy to harvest. 204093[/snapback] I spend huge amounts of time in the mines. I've made hundreds of thousands of GC from HE. laziness isn't the issue. from another thread (especially the parts about market segmenation, ie low level players supplying high level players) some bots sell on market channel... they compete with the players, but not in a fair manner. why is it unfair? because it's a lot less work go to market channel to sell stuff... how long does it take to make a sale? a long time. you miss out on valuable processing time while you try to find buyers, then travel to them (or wait for them to come to you, tying you up from going to get materials or selling to someone else), and make the sale. and if you traveled to sell, you may need to travel back before you can start making stuff again on the other hand, if you have a bot to do selling for you, just just have to visit it once in a while and trade the stuff over. how long does that take? not long. and then it will manage all of the sales for you so far, it doesn't sound great for those who sell stuff themselves, but it's not too unfair. yet. now, lets say you're a buyer, you can buy from a player for X coins, or X +50 coins from a bot. which do you chose? the bot likely has larger stocks, and you know it'll be there when you arive. less chance to be scammed, and you won't have to wait for them to put stuff into trade window and accept sometimes the convenience of a bot is worth a higher price, sometimes it isn't (quite like NPCs, as a matter of fact. bots can sit between players and NPCs for value and convenience) again, doesn't sound too bad. but now lets put these two together bots can make more sales than players because they're far more convenient, and the person making the stuff isn't tied up in sales. bots can sell for far less, because the production is so much simpler once upon a time, bots would sell stuff for worse prices than players. some people would go to them for the convenience o because the bots traded what they wanted and players didn't. but you paid for the convenience. it was just a middle level between players and NPCs. and such it was fair, and the people running the bots made a lot of cash(their sales were lower, but margins a lot higher) then, progressively, bot prices came towards player prices, then passed them. the market, already having problems with players undercutting each other to try to make sales, had a new problem and to compete with bots, players don't just have to match prices, they have to better them. the convenience thing again. but bot owners can better afford the lower prices anyway solution? I dunno. perhaps a guide can be placed on bot prices, between player and NPC prices, since that's where bots lie for convenience. anyone who doesn't want to go with those prices isn't allowed to advertise on market channel (bots messaging channels is annoying as it is anyway) as to MrMinds' suggestion of another bot owner adjusting prices to fight richery... oh wonderful! more bot price wars! as if there's not problems enough as is okay, sure, I can make a profit selling dis rings. how? by doing all the mining, alchemy, and lower level crafting myself. and I do. it works, so where's the problem? the problem is that this ruins work for lower level people. in a real-world setting, some people would be mining and selling to low level crafters and mid-level alchemists. the alchemists will make bars, also to sell to low level crafters. low crafters will polish gems and make raw rings, and sell to high level crafter, who makes dis rings why doesn't this happen? to make a profit at any of these stages would require the end price to go up, or to sell at the inbetween levels at a loss, o less than you could get (though sometimes this is fine, especially with freinds and guildies getting discount rates) 204001[/snapback] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrMabuse Report post Posted October 2, 2005 (edited) ...Fire essence: you can harvest all materials and make those yourselves so actually you got those for free and you can scrap them of your prices list. Same goes for water essence. Silver bars: well you already have made your own fire essences for 0gp, coal and silver ore is easily harvested for free in the caves. ... Why are players selling silver bars for 40gc or FE for 3-4gc? <irony> The ressources are free. I demand that all players sell now FE and silver bars for 0gc. I also demand that Serp Swords are now sold for 0gc. Because the ressources (like efe, ore, etc.) are free. </irony> I tried to buy a steel shield for 0gc. Why is it not working? Because players want to get paid for their work (i.e. the time they spent to collect ressources, the time to mix the ingredients, the skills (nexus/books) needed to manu/craft things). Let's make this clear: You are paying for: That i am collecting/mixing/crafting things. You are paying for the time i spent on this stuff and you are paying my skills (i.e. 6 nexus for artificial 3 and magic 3) and knowledge (mining/modling/ring building/.../... books). ...People complain because they are too lazy to harvest. ... Am I too lazy? I do not have slaves in my guild like you have. I make all the work alone, sometimes i buy FE's. RICH: 61 members BOFH: 2 members (i.e. me and a bot, see: http://el.tfm.ro/bots/botsGrid.php?Formbots_Page=4#bots) Edited October 2, 2005 by DrMabuse Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ssjgohan Report post Posted October 3, 2005 well the price you ask is because of the time you spent making the rings, armor etc but i don't see any use in calculating stuff of FE, bars etc in the price as you get all resources for free anyway + exp is also a reward for you work i've had people in the past asking me to make something for em.. i never took anything in return for it because i was happy with the exp. but i did get them to bring me something for it tho i remember making someone over 700-800 SRs but that person did have to pay for the wine, while i got all the other stuff Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BogusDude Report post Posted October 3, 2005 (edited) Well i'm level 38 craft but a generalist. The idea of a strike to me and alot i've read above is comical. I have not been selling for a few weeks now because, as a generalist, my own demands for rings is high. I'm anticipating the introduction of new rings for cont2 at some point (how long?) and so apart from keeping my personal stocks topped up i'm building a stock of base supplies (gold/silver rings and pol gems) just to store and wait. I've done a few bulk orders in the past selling rings at 50gc each (and yes thats includes tele damage dis), but i don't mind selling them cheap as i've already gained masses of experience from harvesting, alchemy and crafting and can use the money to buy more sandpapers/leather/wine/threads asap. I certainly don't loose out on money like i do with manufacturing. I find it bizarre how some people do nothing but craft (possibly msn addicts) and can't/won't harvest mix their own. Do other skills really interfere with your spam...i mean chat so much. Edited October 3, 2005 by BogusDude Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr.Mind Report post Posted October 3, 2005 .... 204563[/snapback] What he said. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites