OMFG, Not EL related but quite an issue.

[Arnieman]

To be fair, spar, that if America should stick to America, we should mention a few more times we "stuck our noses where they didn't belong.

 

1917 - With urging from Britain and France, ignoring similar urging from the Empire of Germany, and the eventual fall of the Russian Empire coming, America finally declares war on the Empire of Germany, Austria-Hungary (AH), and the Ottoman Empire (OE). Result: Germany, feeling the effect of war-weariness, and now dealing with a "fresh" enemy (that hadn't really partaken of the war yet), surrenders. Also defeated - AH and OE.

 

1941 - Already assisting Britain in a war with Germany, and now attacked by Japan, America uses the excuse of being at war with Japan to go to war with Germany. Result: France is liberated, Britain is saved from defeat, and the Nazi regime falls - while the enormity of their genocide is staggering, imagine if it would have continued longer, or been carried out worldwide.

 

1991 - Aided by American efforts to help Iraq against Iran, Iraq decides to invade Kuwait - which loses, then have its independence restored by - you guessed it - America.

 

1996 - NATO, under the command of America, coordinates efforts to stop the violence in Bosnia.

 

1998 - NATO again returns to the Balkans, under American command again, and helps bring peace to Kosovo, where Serbia was committing genocide.

 

But I guess your right, Americans should just let everyone do what they please and not worry about it until it affects us... does anyone remember the effects of Isolationism?

[Daxon]

But I guess your right, Americans should just let everyone do what they please and not worry about it until it affects us... does anyone remember the effects of Isolationism?

 

You forget Arnie -- if we back off, then people will say we're even more selfish.

[dragburn]

i still think that the U.S. should go back to isolationism. right now helping these other places and installing our own puppet dictators doesnt have very much impact. but remember the proverbial "shit" hasnt hit the proverbial "fan" just yet. many think we are allready in up to our knees but in a few years we wont be able to see daylight for all the crap. we can keep doing what we have been doing and tempt fate or we can pull out now and be in less of a pile than if we had stayed. isolationism may hurt a few other countries but then again have they really helped us to profit from helping them? not many if any.

[Arnieman]

But I guess your right, Americans should just let everyone do what they please and not worry about it until it affects us... does anyone remember the effects of Isolationism?

 

You forget Arnie -- if we back off, then people will say we're even more selfish.

213168[/snapback]

I forgot nothing - why I pointed out Isolationism.

 

I think I said this before - we're damned if we do, damned if we don't.

 

So, what really would you have us do, Dragburn? Retreat into Isolation and wait for another sneak attack? Call me selfish if you must, but I'd rather we were taking care of terrorists BEFORE they hit us again. Whether Iraq was truly part of the "War on Terror" before or not, it really can't honestly be denied that it is now.

 

We cannot retreat while the job is half done, or we're asking for another Al-Qaeda attack. And while we finish, we must go for what is right, not for what's easiest.

 

EDIT: I just looked back at the beginning of the topic - how'd this go from Rita to war?

Edited October 25, 2005 by Arnieman

[Kenneth916]

I just looked back at the beginning of the topic - how'd this go from Rita to war?

213294[/snapback]

 

Various comments that seemed to insinuate that Americans ONLY care about the horrible things that happen in our own back yard (I guess accusing us of being isolationists in a way.).

 

The truth of that is that we are just like others in the world, we care More when it is in our back yard.

[sparhawk]

empathy,thats what we need around here.Not the Apathy some of you guys have taken up.But i guess if theres a man with a gun and a guy who is about to be shot there aint a question on who we would want to be.

[dragburn]

So, what really would you have us do, Dragburn? Retreat into Isolation and wait for another sneak attack? Call me selfish if you must, but I'd rather we were taking care of terrorists BEFORE they hit us again. Whether Iraq was truly part of the "War on Terror" before or not, it really can't honestly be denied that it is now.

 

We cannot retreat while the job is half done, or we're asking for another Al-Qaeda attack. And while we finish, we must go for what is right, not for what's easiest.

to answer the above: i would institute a policy of massive amounts of power in dealing with any threat (nukes and almost unspeakable punishments...remember it is only cruel and unusual the first time!). in other words if we were attacked by another country nuke it till the people glow then shoot em in the dark. if you show your force and intimidate everyone else you only cement your strength(especially if you seem either insane or easily pissed off). our country is pussyfooting around and is making it seem as if the reprocussions for a terrorist attack only affect a small percentage of the terrorist group. if you have a splinter get the hunk of wood out before it becomes infected i.o.w. attack at the source and show no mercy. pure brute force and the threat of extinction are all terrorists really understand. if they all die their massage dies too. as well a better solution to this bull in iraq would be to hire a small elite mercenary group to deal with the "terrorists". they allready know how to blend in and fight the way the enemy does now so why not beat them at their own game. instead of the blackwater mercenaries patroling the streets of the big easy send em to bagdad. what im saying is dont send troops to fight gorillas...send gorillas to fight gorillas especially since they arent bound by that whole rules of warfare bull.

 

p.s. for all who dont understand the meaning of a joke the shooting already nuked people in the dark thing was one.

[Arnieman]

I like the ideas of using guerillas (gorilla warfare would really piss off the animal rights activists).

 

However, the nuking theme seems a bit extreme - though it would make target practice so much easier.

 

Seriously talking about the nuke - the problem is that there are too many people with too many nukes that if one nation shot one nuke at an enemy, they probably would have a volley of nukes coming for them from another enemy, which in turn would inspire more nukes flying, and maybe even preemptive strikes on other enemies (we're all gonna die anyway, let's just even the odds a bit more...) ... before long, anyone surviving is freezing both their arses off in the nuclear wintry night illuminated by their own glow...

[sparhawk]

Reminds me of dune the machine crusade when earth was bombed by atomics and becam sterile.

[Brom]

I like the ideas of using guerillas (gorilla warfare would really piss off the animal rights activists).

 

However, the nuking theme seems a bit extreme - though it would make target practice so much easier.

 

Seriously talking about the nuke - the problem is that there are too many people with too many nukes that if one nation shot one nuke at an enemy, they probably would have a volley of nukes coming for them from another enemy, which in turn would inspire more nukes flying, and maybe even preemptive strikes on other enemies (we're all gonna die anyway, let's just even the odds a bit more...) ... before long, anyone surviving is freezing both their arses off in the nuclear wintry night illuminated by their own glow...

214094[/snapback]

 

Arnieman has my grasp of this. Ive read how this has progressed and the fights that Arnieman has put up are the exact same ones I stand next to. Though he worded it better than I could have.

Overall, The US is not evil, We are doing everything we can, which we get blamed for being wrong. the things we do not do we also get blamed for, and to fix those things we did not do, we also get blamed for. Wow. I have this to say.

At least we are doing something.

Extra note that fits in here perfectly: Hind sight is 20/20.

Edited October 28, 2005 by Brom