What happens when we die

[LemonStar]

It seems to me (this is an idea taken from another thread btw) that dying doesn't posses much of a problem at all. I myself have gone aroun dpoking large monsters just for the shere sake of it. Go in naked end up in the underworld walk back out again. Shouldn't the act of dying, well sort of mean something.

 

As a suggestion how about (no idea how feasable coding wise this is) we make it so that when you die you still have the same chance to lose items etc, but you also lose exp... I think best if this is lost from OA exp. If you lose say 1% of your total OA exp each time you die, then that means that dying is a bad thing, espacially as it means slower pick pointing time. Haveing the rate set to a percentage means that newbies would lose less exp (or we could even set it like losing items, it won't happen until to you are over a certain lvl) than someone with an OA in the 50's.

[Caulm]

i disagree, when u die you lose ENOUGH -_- , we dont have to make it that you lose OA xp ect.

[cedox]

I agree, I want areas that are inpenetrable without a good organized attack by several players. This would be a good way to do it, if that area was infested with bad monsters plus it was a pk area. That with some fear of losing something would make a good place for legends... Killing fields

 

- cedox

[ttlanhil]

losing 1% OA (or a half level or something) sounds okay to me. currently there isn't much hassle in dying... at first it takes a while to find the way out, but older players can be out in a half minute, and have a guildie or friend waiting at their bag... total loss is a few minutes. big deal.

I'd also like to see a chance for your gear to break when you die. like 40% chance it stays with you, 40% it goes into a deathbag, 20% chance it breaks (or degrades, for those few items). rosto stone would still garuantee 100% carry, of course, and it would become a little more valuable. careful guy would have to be adjusted to 50%/35%/15% or something

[Aislinn]

Dying should be worse, most definitely.

We should NOT lose exp, definitely not.

 

I would like to see the underworld be a meaner place, a harder place to get out of. A place where bad things can happen to you. Traps, cave-ins, lava flows, evil spirits get you, things that hinder your ability to get out.

 

Edit: I think we lose enough items, and they break enough also, without making that happen even more with death.

[ttlanhil]

at a bare minimum, having stuff that makes a mapwalk out of underworld a Bad Idea

[cedox]

I was thinking that when someone dies he would reincarnate as a gnome or even as an underpants stealing barrel gnome, but that would be too harsh.

 

- Cedox

Edited September 5, 2005 by cedox

[Mister_Q]

I myself have gone aroun dpoking large monsters just for the shere sake of it. Go in naked end up in the underworld walk back out again. Shouldn't the act of dying, well sort of mean something.

 

i do that too when im bored but some players go PKing etc with plates and then its stupid when you die and loose your stuff.

 

currently there isn't much hassle in dying... at first it takes a while to find the way out, but older players can be out in a half minute, and have a guildie or friend waiting at their bag... total loss is a few minutes. big deal.

 

i hear all kinds of stories (or should i say flames) about ppl stealing deathbags of one an other..

 

Traps, cave-ins, lava flows, evil spirits get you, things that hinder your ability to get out.

 

youre already dead but what if you want to get your stuff reall quick? no guildies on, you fought and died with plate, and you have to come there before the 12 min and/or potential deathbagstealers? so you can only fight when friends are on and they arnt always, and if they are, they dont have the time sometimes..

 

but overall i do think dying needs to be adjusted just a bit.. like less time or something? 6 min? or something like a message: you cant fight for a period of time (dunno how long) becaus you have to rest..

[Sistema]

I soooooo totally agree with Aislinn!!

[cedox]

but overall i do think dying needs to be adjusted just a bit.. like less time or something? 6 min? or something like a message: you cant fight for a period of time (dunno how long) becaus you have to rest..

 

Good idea the downtime, but this still doesn't solve the immersion destroyer(and please don't say it isn't immersion destroyer, 'cause role-playing is what this server's admins seem to want. And me) that is you can go bashing a a gargoyle, a bear maybe in the future some big monsies like dragons with Bare Hands and even kill them by dying and attacking them over and over again. It makes killing something big routine, not an achievement. You just live your good stuff in storage and take some 30 iron swords with you. How uncool is that?

 

- Cedox

[trollson]

Multiple levels of 'underworld' -- if you die in one, you decend to the next level down. Throw in a few demons prowling around to spice things up...

 

There could even be things on the lower levels which are worth trying to get to.

 

Though you could easily discourage players if it was too hard to get out of Heck.

[Arnieman]

I have to say this: Maybe dieing should mean more than "mapwalk and out". However, when you get past level 50 in anything, getting to the next level is hard enough WITHOUT the chance to lose exp. This problem is compounded with overall and pickpoints - pickpoints are already scarce enough if you try to have any skill AND fight.

 

Item drop increase/decrease won't do anything except emphasize the problem already, and increase/decrease the bagjumpers and complaints.

 

Idea: How about when people die, food level goes to 0, all nexii go to 0/c*, and skills receive a temporary penalty (80% of c*/c*)? To make this worse, more than still just a nuisance, either make them unable to eat in Hades, or make food drop/disappear 100% of the time when dieing. Then, people would have to wait to get out of Hades to eat, and each stat that lowered would return at a rate of 1 point per minute, similar to what happens with the original assigning of pickpoints.

 

*c = Current Level of that particular stat. As such, at a nexus of 5, the nexus would show as 0/5. Similar, a stat level of 10 would show up as 8/10, and a stat level of 100 would be 80/100. Only problem, this would likely mean that overall level would have to be ignored, as far as this stat loss goes.

[trollson]

zero'ing current attributes and having a gradual recovery would work well. It would be difficult to speed up, and make characters take a time out (provided they have food!).

 

Zeroing nexuses could be problematic, since characters may end up wearing items they do not have the (current) nexus to use.

[freeone3000]

That happens anyway when you reset.

[pennifuin]

I have to say this: Maybe dieing should mean more than "mapwalk and out".  However, when you get past level 50 in anything, getting to the next level is hard enough WITHOUT the chance to lose exp.  This problem is compounded with overall and pickpoints - pickpoints are already scarce enough if you try to have any skill AND fight.

 

Item drop increase/decrease won't do anything except emphasize the problem already, and increase/decrease the bagjumpers and complaints.

 

Idea: How about when people die, food level goes to 0, all nexii go to 0/c*, and skills receive a temporary penalty (80% of c*/c*)?  To make this worse, more than still just a nuisance, either make them unable to eat in Hades, or make food drop/disappear 100% of the time when dieing.  Then, people would have to wait to get out of Hades to eat, and each stat that lowered would return at a rate of 1 point per minute, similar to what happens with the original assigning of pickpoints.

 

*c = Current Level of that particular stat.  As such, at a nexus of 5, the nexus would show as 0/5.  Similar, a stat level of 10 would show up as 8/10, and a stat level of 100 would be 80/100.  Only problem, this would likely mean that overall level would have to be ignored, as far as this stat loss goes.

193454[/snapback]

 

nice idea arnie! this also means a massive gap in the potion market would open up!

 

i was just about to post a thread about Hell and how disapointingly bad it is...i was thinking that there could be diferent levels of hell, depending on what oa you have, or what a/d/p/c you have, the higher the level, the harder to get out, you could have 3 or 4 diferent hells. why not make hell on one of the big maps like ws? that way, its a longer walk out anyway. along the way you could have a few ANGRY monster (mm does not work) and damage areas.

 

when heat damage comes in, you could have heat damage down there. maybe a maze or two, or shifting doorways...you have to choose the right one, or you go back to the beginning of hell! (three doors side by side, the right door changes every 30 seconds or something?)

 

that should keep people occupied for a bit. this of course, hellspawn would have a greater disadvantage, maybe get rid of the antiperk completely?

[freeone3000]

that should keep people occupied for a bit. this of course, hellspawn would have a greater disadvantage, maybe get rid of the antiperk completely?

I think hellspawn should be kept even if it is changed. They took the 8 pp in exchange for going to hell about once every 4 map changes, no matter which hell it is.

[pennifuin]

but the fact of the matter is, one end of the deal has changed.

[jrritter31984]

the bad thing about taking away OA exp would be that a player could have a oa of 32 with 72 exp over that then die and go to the underworld and come back up fight a few times and get another OA in just a few minutes...

 

it would be abused by everybody... maybe even me just kidding

 

this was my main concern as i read this thread

[Learner]

the bad thing about taking away OA exp would be that a player could have a oa of 32 with 72 exp over that then die and go to the underworld and come back up fight a few times and get another OA in just a few minutes...

 

it would be abused by everybody... maybe even me      just kidding 

 

this was my main concern as i read this thread

193590[/snapback]

That would not allow them to get additional PP's though. We'd just make sure that lose of OA it would still remember you had used up the PP's

[ttlanhil]

the bad thing about taking away OA exp would be that a player could have a oa of 32 with 72 exp over that then die and go to the underworld and come back up fight a few times and get another OA in just a few minutes...

 

it would be abused by everybody... maybe even me      just kidding 

 

this was my main concern as i read this thread

193590[/snapback]

nah, they'd be, say, -200k past OA72. got a lot extra before they can start gaining on their next level, but still have the same OA. they won't get the same OA twice (but good spotting to point out a problem)

[Drobus]

That happens anyway when you reset.

193514[/snapback]

 

I don't think they are saying you should be automatically reset.

 

Anyway, what I would do is leave nexuses and stats, like physique and coordination, alone, but the player would go to 0 food, and all skills would be halved, which would recover at a rate of 1/minute while food level is above 0. Thus, if my attack skill were 50, it would go to 25/50 on death, if I died again when it was back up to 30/50, it would go to 15/50. Thus, this would let me keep adventuring if I wanted to risk it or I could wait half an hour or so to get skills back to normal. This also has the benefit of making death more costly for higher levels. Someone who has 100 attack would go to 50/100, and have a 50 minute wait for skills about that high to get back to normal.

 

Hmm, you might also have to change some XP formulas, so this couldn't be abused, as when your A/D is lower, you get more XP versus the same monsters (I would imagine without some programming modifications, the affect would be the opposite effect of attack and defense potions, which make you stronger, but reduce the experience you get).

[Ryuu]

As a suggestion how about (no idea how feasable coding wise this is) we make it so that when you die you still have the same chance to lose items etc, but you also lose exp... I think best if this is lost from OA exp. If you lose say 1% of your total OA exp each time you die, then that means that dying is a bad thing, espacially as it means slower pick pointing time. Haveing the rate set to a percentage means that newbies would lose less exp (or we could even set it like losing items, it won't happen until to you are over a certain lvl) than someone with an OA in the 50's.   

193420[/snapback]

 

Great.. I'd lose 550k oa exp

 

but heck, imagine what'd happen to don if we killed him in KF

[Dunian]

I dissagree with the bit about not losing enough when you die, I just lost greaves and iron plate, along with other things, to a cyclops :glare:

 

However, it would be neat to have multiple levels of the underworld, with a few monsters wandering about to keep you on your toes. Or even better, why not create an animal\monster there every time one dies, then make it dissapear once it dies or respawns outside!

 

Dunian :battleaxe:

[trollson]

I don't think they are saying you should be automatically reset.

 

I think freeone3000 was refering to were nexuses are temporarily set to zero, characters are still equipped with armour and weapons they can not longer use.

 

This situation must be encountered when characters reset, and so is already handled.

 

It is beginning to sound like zero-ing current attributes (and maybe nexuses) is a workable penalty for dying.

[Lyanna]

It's workable, I suppose. And it automatically scales according to player. How about if everything's current level gets zeroed, and recovers at the usual rate of 1 point per minute?

 

Therefore, a newbie after dying would have the following stats/skills:

Att: 0/5, Def: 0/5, Harv: 0/10, Alch: 0/0, Mag: 0/0, Pot: 0/0, Sum: 0/0, Manu: 0/6, Craft: 0/0. OA: 15/15

 

Phys: 0/6, Coord: 0/6, Rea: 0/5, Will: 0/6, Ins: 0/4, Vit: 0/4

 

Human: 0/1, Animal: 0/0, Vegetal: 0/0, Inorganic: 0/2, Arti: 0/0, Magic: 0/0

And everything regenerates back up to normal at 1 point per minute. So, to arrive at maximum efficiency again, the newbie would have to wait 10 minutes (that's the max - for harvesting skill).

 

However, an experienced player would have something like this after dying:

Att: 0/65, Def: 0/65, Harv: 0/40, Alch: 0/50, Mag: 0/30, Pot: 0/30, Sum: 0/20, Manu: 0/46, Craft: 0/40. OA: 87/87

 

Phys: 0/36, Coord: 0/46, Rea: 0/15, Will: 0/36, Ins: 0/4, Vit: 0/4

 

Human: 0/5, Animal: 0/4, Vegetal: 0/4, Inorganic: 0/4, Arti: 0/4, Magic: 0/3

Therefore, they will need 65 whole minutes before all their current levels went back to normal.

 

However, note that Potions could probably be used to increase current skill levels back up to normal faster. So this could completely revitalise the entire potion market. And since it's mainly the experienced players who have the money to afford potions, it balances nicely. And, if more map area effects are set, technically the devs could subtly control how people congregate. (Eg. If the Magic School in Tarsengaard gives you a Magic skill recovery rate of 5 points per min instead of just 1, then mages would flock there to recover after death. Likewise, workshops for manuers and crafters, barracks and forts for fighters, etc.)

 

The only thing I can think of is that this might still be too harsh for the newbies.

 

-Lyn-