Negative Perk discussion

[Brom]

Humm, lots of options. I think if we were going to rebuild or edit the PP system the easiest thing would be a player-wipe But I do not think people who be too thrilled about that. I would actually enjoy it

 

Honestly there are many ways it could be done, most have been suggested.

1) Cause everyone in the game to reset.

2) Those with negative perks should have a negative pickpoint level. (IE -10) keeping in mind they have the option to reset.

3) (More like a dream ) Remove all Perks from players, set OA to what it should be and let the players Reallocate thier points, remote reset, keep Positive perks available. IE: Brom for example has reset 2 times. So recalculate his OA from the levels he has, then let him set his Pickpoints. Major downside to this one would be overpowered players, Most people who actually be much stronger than they were before. Brom would start killing Male orcs and Cyclops with some nice perks.

4) Player Wipe

 

Lots of options. I think the best for everyone who simply be a Player-wipe or cause everyone to reset. My third choice would be cause people only with negative perks to reset.

[Daxon]

Player wipe huh? So everyone should have to completely restart on something that quite frankly isn't that important? Leave the perks, maybe reduce the cost and gain of them, make negative perk effects really negative (power hungry = instead of -3 food, -9 food, antisocial can't trade with any player nor talk with any NPC, etc).

 

Everyone always looks for the easy way out.

[Acelon]

Brom, it seems you want a player wipe for some reason but according to the devs, it will not happen. A playerwipe would just cause EL to lose even more players.

[Daxon]

Brom, it seems you want a player wipe for some reason but according to the devs, it will not happen. A playerwipe would just cause EL to lose even more players.

188815[/snapback]

 

What would really piss me off about that is that my character is not raised with perks. No perks at all. So I'd get wiped for absolutely nothing.

[Brom]

Its a suggestion, and I agree it was a stupid one. And just so you know Daxon. Brom has no perks either. (I learned the hard way, after 2 resets)

[Guest Enyo]

a player wipe? what is that and it sounds like i would be totally against it.. i could see a PP database reset ..maintaining oa pp but not a player wipe if it is what i think it is.. that's nuts

[Alderan]

Humm, lots of options. I think if we were going to rebuild or edit the PP system the easiest thing would be a player-wipe But I do not think people who be too thrilled about that. I would actually enjoy it

 

Honestly there are many ways it could be done, most have been suggested.

1) Cause everyone in the game to reset.

2) Those with negative perks should have a negative pickpoint level. (IE -10) keeping in mind they have the option to reset.

3) (More like a dream ) Remove all Perks from players, set OA to what it should be and let the players Reallocate thier points, remote reset, keep Positive perks available. IE: Brom for example has reset 2 times. So recalculate his OA from the levels he has, then let him set his Pickpoints. Major downside to this one would be overpowered players, Most people who actually be much stronger than they were before. Brom would start killing Male orcs and Cyclops with some nice perks.

4) Player Wipe

 

Lots of options. I think the best for everyone who simply be a Player-wipe or cause everyone to reset. My third choice would be cause people only with negative perks to reset.

188785[/snapback]

 

you forgot to list my idea: take out the entire PP system. like I said, I always hated it and the game would be better without it. :glare:

We should just go back to the way it was before PPs. -_-

[chatterbug89]

I don't realy think it's fair to just wipe everyone's negative PP....Some people...cough...me...cough....have put up with the negative perks for a VERY long time...now you are just goign to wipe them and all their months of greiving were for nothing :S BAh, I don' tknow....if you guys had all the negative perks (except geltin bones..that is the worest one in my opnion...) you would see what I mean.

 

Also...why do you want to make some of these perks even worse and lower the PP of them....what is the point in that? For example, the quest NPC's are my only salvation from antisocial and you want to take that way along with any trading with players?! Well gee....lets take away chat too while we are at it. The whole game resolves around player interaction and you want to make it so the people with anti can't do the main thing in this game.

 

As for doing a wipe where everyone gets a reset, keeping all their PP except for PP gained from negative perks woudlne't be too bad...it's still sort of unfair for the people who put up with some of these perks for so long...they deserve some credit. But either way...doing somethign like that is probaly posible...from what I have heard...it woudl probaly be posible to just have a script do it...mcuh easier than doing it with C...though maybe not as reliable.

[Mr.Mind]

I suggest that we be able to remove perks via the wraith and have the pickpoints subtracted/added equal to what they are when you get them.

 

For example: someone takes hellspawn and gets the 10 pickpoints. After awhile they don't want it any more so they go to the wraith and have the wraith remove the perk (of course the person would need to have 10 pickpoints saved up in order to remove the perk).

 

Would this kind of system be subject to any abuse? I think its a fair way to remove unwanted perks. I'm starting to find out that monster magnetism isn't too much of a benefit for me any more.

[Learner]

I suggest that we be able to remove perks via the wraith and have the pickpoints subtracted/added equal to what they are when you get them.

 

For example: someone takes hellspawn and gets the 10 pickpoints.  After awhile they don't want it any more so they go to the wraith and have the wraith remove the perk (of course the person would need to have 10 pickpoints saved up in order to remove the perk).

 

Would this kind of system be subject to any abuse?  I think its a fair way to remove unwanted perks.  I'm starting to find out that monster magnetism isn't too much of a benefit for me any more. 

188867[/snapback]

Not equal, it should cost a little bit more in the way of PP's so that you can't just trade perks at will.

[Brom]

I like you chatterbug, without you, this post would be nearly all one-sided, I honor your courage. Lets discuss.

 

have put up with the negative perks for a VERY long time

Reset, you no longer HAVE to put up with them. That is your own choice.

 

now you are just goign to wipe them and all their months of greiving were for nothing

Correct. Its in the past, leave it there.

 

why do you want to make some of these perks even worse and lower the PP of them....what is the point in that?

To make you not want to take them Negative perks are not supposed to be helpful. They are supposed to be Negative.

 

For example, the quest NPC's are my only salvation from antisocial and you want to take that way along with any trading with players?! Well gee....lets take away chat too while we are at it.

Its a loophole in Antisocial. You are not suppose to be able to trade with any NPC, Thus the purpose of "Antisocial" Right now it does not have much of a negative affect (Other than Mercury/Sanders). Taking away chat! ha! that I would not ever allow.

 

still sort of unfair for the people who put up with some of these perks for so long...they deserve some credit

Once again, You CHOOSE to take negative perks. You do not HAVE to put up with them.

 

Lots of views, this is simply mine.

 

P.S. Dont worry about the player wipe, I do not see them doing it.

Edited August 18, 2005 by Brom

[Mr.Mind]

Not equal, it should cost a little bit more in the way of PP's so that you can't just trade perks at will.

188878[/snapback]

What about still using the same amount of PP, but a decent amount of gold (like 50k to remove the perk). Then people still wouldn't be trading them at will.

[Alderan]

Is anybody listening to me? like i said, the best solution is to take out the PP system entirely. I think most people that played before it was around liked the game a lot better without it, or maybe I'm just the only one, but I still say the game would be much better without the stupid PP system. Not one good thing has come of it. It's only caused the creation of topics like these; trying to get ideas of how to improve the system. so obviously nobody likes it the way it is. The best way is just to take it out of the game. -_-

Edited August 18, 2005 by Alderan

[Acelon]

Alderan, no one is responding to you because the majority of EL would be against you. Personally I hated the old system. Everyone had the same stats, there was NO diversity.

[Brom]

Is anybody listening to me? blink.gif like i said, the best solution is to take out the PP system entirely. I think most people that played before it was around liked the game a lot better without it, or maybe I'm just the only one, but I still say the game would be much better without the stupid PP system. Not one good thing has come of it. It's only caused the creation of topics like these; trying to get ideas of how to improve the system. so obviously nobody likes it the way it is. The best way is just to take it out of the game. sleep.gif

 

Ill be honest, I do not remember the old system. Perhaps you could explain how it worked?

[Acelon]

In the old system, you had to complete quests then you could purchase attributes from certain NPCs for gold and beaver fur (one of them). Same thing for nexus but nexus weren't used back then and you could increase vegetal once from a quest.

[Alderan]

sure, the old system needed some improvement, but it was a lot better than this PP system

[Guest Enyo]

Alderan, no one is responding to you because the majority of EL would be against you. Personally I hated the old system. Everyone had the same stats, there was NO diversity.

188964[/snapback]

 

ditto

[Learner]

Yes, everyone on the old system tended to have their stats all maxed out if there was a way to raise it.

[Acelon]

No, the PP systems makes you choose what to be and it causes ALOT of diversity. Its great but the perk system could be reworked

 

After thinking about it, Negative perks should stay however should be lowered in Points like Brom said. However, the max number given on all of the neg perks should be like 5. Hellspawn and Anti give 5, Godless and Jelly bones gives 4, I can't dance gives 3 and Powerhungry gives 2. That way if someone really needs the pickpoints, they can get them but in the end, they are getting the negative end of the bargain.

 

Changing the system should give everyone the option to redistribute. However, with their current overall level and not the total overall level, that is going a bit overboard.

[Aislinn]

Alderan, no one is responding to you because the majority of EL would be against you. Personally I hated the old system. Everyone had the same stats, there was NO diversity.

188964[/snapback]

Personally I agree with Alderan

But it's like beating a dead horse so I've moved on to try to fix the things I CAN fix.

[Alderan]

Personally I agree with Alderan

188991[/snapback]

 

 

HAH! Take that LV!

 

 

But it's like beating a dead horse so I've moved on to try to fix the things I CAN fix. 

188991[/snapback]

I guess you are right. But the PP system needs some major changes, and I think it would just be easier to just go back to the old system instead of messing with this new one that no one is ever gonna be happy with. of course, the old system needed a lot of changes too, but it was still better than the PP system =\

Edited August 19, 2005 by Alderan

[Kami]

Negative perks should stay because they bring more diversity to the game and a player has more choices to make and if he makes a wrong choice he will have to pay the price.

 

About changing the effect of them i think its pointless because it is the same for everybody and because it would be probably hard to change them now

188652[/snapback]

 

The Problem there is that there really is No Choice, Only Gambling and Fiddling. The only person that the PP System ever fools in believing it can shape their character as they wish is newbies and those who know how to Use Reset.

 

The Truth is, when a player first starts, they Understand Next to Nothing about the PP System. They'll Wonder around IP for an hour before finally asking how to play properly and no one (Myself included) is able to properly explain the System to them. And Because of this, Newbies will almost Always Makes "the Wrong Choice."

 

Of course, we have Reset. But that opens a whole New Can of Worms.

First, No player ever understands the System well enough to Know If and When they've made a mistake and once they do understand, Resetting is one of the most painful things that could be done. Many Players have Quit because of that alone.

 

Second, It is totally Abused. Once a Player Does understand the System, Reset allows a player to Manipulate (Not built) their Character as they see fit.

 

Then, Once a Player has Manipulated their Character to their likings, the Whole PP system becomes useless to them cause all the works done with.

 

Humm, lots of options. I think if we were going to rebuild or edit the PP system the easiest thing would be a player-wipe But I do not think people who be too thrilled about that. I would actually enjoy it

188785[/snapback]

 

Not a Player Wipe. That would do more harm then good. In the Shape the Current game is now, no one wants to reset they entire character and play everything over again.

 

But, once the overall game is improved and rebuilt from the ground up, most players would be more then happy to reset their Characters.

 

Is anybody listening to me? like i said,  the best solution is to take out the PP system entirely.

188936[/snapback]

 

I'm listening and I agree that the PP System needs to be stripped from this game (but mainly the Perk System).

 

But I do not agree that we should Ever bring back the old system. It's almost as bad as the PP System. On the other hand, A Much better idea would be to Seperate the Perks, Attributes and Nexus completely. Do not have them all based on Pick Points and Make players have to Earn them instead of just Buying them. And Not solely by Quests either, though we do need more Quests.

 

Attributes could be Earned Normally, tough I dislike it currently. There's certain Topic elsewhere that discusses these and Nexues so I can't talk here.

 

But I'll focus on an idea I most support, which is that Perks should be given out by Gods and other NPCs as Quest Rewards and only once you've finished a very long list of Chores (also, not just giving them useless Crap) and not Just from one NPC and not just by turning in your PP Like you would Cereal Box Tops. That way, After Working for ever so long to Please a God/NPC, you'd get a reward of a Perk (or possibly your choice of Perks). Also, because you can only 3 Gods (Or NPC for those who choose not to follow a God), the Perks avalible to a player would be limited by that player's Choices. And then, If a Player decides latter that s/he doesn't like the Perk, you either have to Leave the God/NPC (and lose all that work doe for that God/NPC) or Offence that GOD/NPC (which would be very Bad, to say the least.)

[Arnieman]

Interesting discussion, and a few things I want to note that are at least related. As I see it, this discussion is more an extension on the pick point dilemma, than just a discussion of negative perks. So, here are a few problems I see with the system as a whole:

 

1. Nexii points cost too much to really do anything.

In the past, I heard it trumpeted as the triumph of this game that we "didn't force classes". It has been my recent work on my character that has given light to this lie, at least to me. I recently reset, and in rebuilding my character, I had to spend 21 picks on my nexii alone. Now, I understand that I shouldn't have a realistic expectation to do everything, but this isn't exactly "not forcing classes", either. My thought, rework the nexii at least semi-separate from pickpoints, or give up on the unforced classes fallacy.

 

2. All perks need to be totally redone.

All the perks, not just the negative ones, are WAY too easy to get at the present, and some mean too much for what they give, and others don't mean enough. For example, Power Saving. Perfect if you plan never to do anything in EL once you have full health and all the books read (if you ever try reading any). If you want to do anything, though, you just wasted 3 PPs. On the other hand, I Can't Dance gives you 5 PPs, and all you have to do to not incur its wrath is never multi-fight. IMO, having the perks is a good idea, but let's take them off of pickpoints. Make them either blessings or curses that can be bestowed, and allow them to be countered.

 

3. The PP system needs to be reworked.

I think this goes without saying, as we still have 2 cross attributes with absolutely no use. However, we have nearly everything that defines your character to a VERY limited resource, and not enough actually tied to trying to define your character.

[Placid]

Just remove negative perks alltogether. Reset all those chars who took them and give them all the PP's their OA specifies.