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Protolif got banned for hax0ring

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Guest Enyo
However, he stole stuff, and some of the stuff was paid with real money. And this is what I have a problem with, making him not much better than the people that stole e-bay and paypal accounts, or CCs.

Not to mention that many people might have the same password for multiple things, including possibly bank accounts, e-bay accounts, paypal, and so on.

 

Anyway, while I wouldn't want to see him in jail for that, some fine and/or community service wouldn't hurt.

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I agree with the banning and everything else that you said. you are right, it's very serious about the passwords and stolen items which were paid with real cash. community service might be helpful. i just don't have allot of faith in the judicial system of the usa if that is where he is from... especially when it concerns kids because i have a burden for kids being a parent myself. it would be nice to know what his parents have to say or what action they plan on taking.. hmm so sad .. so very sad for him and just for our society in general as far as our youth are concerned... :confused: i wish him the best and hope he has learned a lesson..not to be repeated.

Edited by Enyo

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so even tho the code is posted in a few forums its protected now?

184402[/snapback]

 

Well, duh :confused:

We take issues like that very seriously, and we attempt to fix them ASAP.

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I agree with the banning and everything else that you said.  you are right, it's very serious about the passwords and stolen items which were paid with real cash.  community service might be helpful.  i just don't have allot of faith in the judicial system of the usa if that is where he is from... especially when it concerns kids because i have a burden for kids being a parent myself.  it would be nice to know what his parents have to say or what action they plan on taking.. hmm so sad .. so very sad for him and just for our society in general as for as our youth are concerned...  :confused:  i wish him the best and hope he has learned a lesson..not to be repeated.

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I am not so sure he is under 18.

Anyway, like I said, he will most likely get away with it. teh banned 0n3na hacked our webserver an I reported her, and so far little has been done about it. Put he lives in the US (I guess, by the ISP) so maybe he will have a harder time getting away with it. Nevertheless, he didn't even bother to contact me, so tomorrow I will file an official complaint with the police.

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Well, what can I say - I'm shocked. Protolif gave the items listed above away during a trivia competition between RICH, LORE and BASH (with Kendai as an hnoured guest). I will of course return the sword to Chatterbug as soon as I catch him on, or surrender it to a mod if thats preferable. As regards the (sold) conjuror cape, I will purchase a new one for the person who bought it from Kendai and return the original to Chatterbug also.

 

Noclaf left about an hour after the competition for a 2 week holiday but I shall attempt to purchase a new Tit axe and MM cloak for Chatterbug if that is too long a delay.

 

My deepest sympathies to anyone else who lost items:(.

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Thats "funny", I was just saying yesterday to a guild mate that the 2 steel shields he made for me were not in my storage anymore. Of course my guild companion were quite skeptical. Fortunately for me I am pretty low in oa so I don't have very expensive armour/weapon or EFE in storage. All in all, thats not a very big loss.

I rejoice that this kind of person may be shaked by the police or by the justice.

 

Grossbouff

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What always makes me wonder is if guys like protolif are so smart, why dont they help out instead of hacking, im sure with his skills he could have become dev quite easily. :-\

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What always makes me wonder is if guys like protolif are so smart, why dont they help out instead of hacking, im sure with his skills he could have become dev quite easily. :-\

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Can't be a constructive figure to society with his level of maturity.

 

edit: not only is hacking in itself a crime in most countries but he also stole items that were paid for with real currency.  that's theft and hacking, both..    but, i still say, please give him a chance.  i hate to see kids being thrown away and that happens all too often these days.

 

I can relate to that. I've been in a fair amount of trouble myself as a kid, but I had to pay up for it. So should he. He shouldn't be given special consideration for doing things like this. It furthers his development of APD if he isn't disciplined and punished properly, which makes things a lot worse later.

Edited by Daxon

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If he would have just logged in with other characters to test his exploit, then report it to us, I wouldn't have banned him. It is partially our fault that we allowed this exploit to happen.

However, he stole stuff, and some of the stuff was paid with real money. And this is what I have a problem with, making him not much better than the people that stole e-bay and paypal accounts, or CCs.

Not to mention that many people might have the same password for multiple things, including possibly bank accounts, e-bay accounts, paypal, and so on.

 

The fact that he reported the bug to Learner was just marginally helpful, as he posted iton multiple forums just hours after. It is ageed in the security world that it's a bad practice to do that. Usually you have to give the makers of the software a resonable amount of time to fix it, such as a few days.

 

Anyway, while I wouldn't want to see him in jail for that, some fine and/or community service wouldn't hurt.

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Personally, I don't think age matters. Only intention. He knew what he was doing was wrong, and kept at it anyway. And giving the dev's the code (then everyone else in EL) wasn't to redeem himself, it was a big F*U* to the programmers. People like him don't stop at stealing online items. When they see how easy it is to hack a character ID, they move right up to people ID's and bank accounts, then companies, and government... etc. His type don't stop. It's too fun (and profitable) a challenge.

 

If he's an American, as you think he is, Entropy, then he should also know American courts have deemed the theft of online items is still theft, and prosecutable. He needs to be stopped and made into an example. Don't waste too much time on the police, it's the FBI who deals with online thefts. Contact them. They WILL do something. It will help a lot more if the players who were hacked by him also contact the FBI, and contacting a lawyer is also a very good idea. It doesn't matter if he didn't take much from you, or took everything you had, it's the principle of it. He shouldn't be allowed to get away with it, and it will deter others from trying in the future.

 

My 2 cents. Just want to protect the players and the game.

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Stealing online items IS a crime and punishable. I don't have the url now, but I remember seeing an article a couple months ago where someone hacked someone elses account and stole the characters items. The guy who got hacked reported it, the hacker was caught, and prosecuted. The judge fined him heavily and I believe even gave him jail time for it.

 

Bottom line, Protolif can get into RL trouble for hacking and stealing if the players he hacked choose to go after him. I say go for it!

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To steal is to steal. If you want to hack things w/o punishment then go to www.izhal.com or to www.boinasnegras.com. That are games, and this is real life, and in real life the punishments are also real. :ph34r:

 

What always makes me wonder is if guys like protolif are so smart, why dont they help out instead of hacking, im sure with his skills he could have become dev quite easily. :-\

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Smart... I dont think so. There are tons of ways to mask your isp, your ip, or even to make guilty another person. So, even if he managed to use an exploit he does not seem so smart. You know: anybody can have sex, but only inteligent people do use condoms. Also hackers have nothing to do with developers, they are just curious persons that like to investigate how to open closed doors. That is fine, the wrong thing is when a hacker become a thief. Even a cracker may have most times no idea over programming at all... Just a bit of assembler knowledge, some decripters and decompressors, the uber nice SoftICE and some byte patterns that are almost identical in all the programs, and you can crack almost anything. Of course, that is illegal too, even if you have the legal license to use the program. The reverse engineering in illegal in so much countries.

 

Can't be a constructive figure to society with his level of maturity.

I can relate to that.  I've been in a fair amount of trouble myself as a kid, but I had to pay up for it.  So should he.  He shouldn't be given special consideration for doing things like this.  It furthers his development of APD if he isn't disciplined and punished properly, which makes things a lot worse later.

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Agreed. As entropy knows: "U obbey, U ok", and I add: U don't, U wrong. I did (and sometimes still do) silly things and had to pay for them. Everyone should considered the same. I am sure that he is conscious that what he did was wrong, but that does not change the issue that a bad action needs a punishment if you dont want the action to be repeated in the future.

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Ok, I set him this e-mail, on the e-maila ddress associated with his forum account:

In the light of your recent hacking into other people's passwords and STEALING their items, I felt I should give you a chance to compensate us for the loss of time and for the stollen items.

Pretty much everyone is encouraging me to report it to the police: http://www.eternal-lands.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=16795

I know you are banned from our forums, but I am sure such a 1337 hax0r like you won't have problems reading it anyway.

And if I don't hear anything from you by Monday, I will do that.

Have a nice day,

Entropy

 

P.S. BTW, you didn't not get banned for the code you posted on various forums, you got banned for stealing people's items.

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He couldn't have got his ip masked, because he posted on forums with his own acc. And besides he prolly went like that after hacking passes :

1337!!! 1337!!! 0|\/|G |'|\/|3|-| 1|3|< 1337 |-|4><><0r222 ! \/\/007 \/\/00+ , |\/|3|-| p\/\/|\|'z 73|-| 07|-|3r 734|\/|, \/\/007. | r0><><0r22

 

He is a classical "1337" kiddie. I made it a bilinual post so I will translate the upper part.

 

Hooray! My, God, I am a real hacker. Woohoo, I defeated the others. I rock.

 

 

 

P.S. I discovered fabolous decryption skills in me.

Edited by Dimov

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Okay - related to this topic - I'd like to make it clear that Protolif left RICH over 5 weeks ago to start his own guild BASH.

 

From my conversations with others I personally believe no-one else in BASH was involved in this incident.

 

<Edit> : Magic sword now back in Chatterbug's care : </Edit>

Edited by gadai

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Personaly, I was very irratated that this happened espeicaly after I was irrated about some other things (Some new Fedex guy coudlen't find my house...grrr...lol..), but honestly...you guys seem to be continuesly saying how stupid he was and what not and it is sort of...anoying :) OK, he did somethign wrong, he will probaly pay a price for doing it, but everythign is comming back to normal an dyou guys have to keep going on about how stupid he is. Everyone who was affected is probaly very irrated, but what's done is done.

 

Smart... I dont think so. There are tons of ways to mask your isp, your ip, or even to make guilty another person. So, even if he managed to use an exploit he does not seem so smart. You know: anybody can have sex, but only inteligent people do use condoms. Also hackers have nothing to do with developers, they are just curious persons that like to investigate how to open closed doors. That is fine, the wrong thing is when a hacker become a thief. Even a cracker may have most times no idea over programming at all... Just a bit of assembler knowledge, some decripters and decompressors, the uber nice SoftICE â„¢ and some byte patterns that are almost identical in all the programs, and you can crack almost anything. Of course, that is illegal too, even if you have the legal license to use the program. The reverse engineering in illegal in so much countries.

 

Reverse enginnerring illegal ....ther ewould be no DSLinux and I would ahve never gotten interested in acutaly building circuits! Yay for Reverse Engeenering and my book, "Designing embeded hardware" :-P Nothing is wrong with reverse engeenering <_< About the sex thing..the smartest people are probaly the people who don't do it at all...lol :P I had more to say about this paragraph, but I feel like I coudl be flamed or critisized a lot :S

EDIT: You do make some of that stuff sound a little easier than it acutaly is <_< Though most of what you said is fairly simple, if not all if people acutaly used there brains for once...or if the world was comming to an end...oh my gosh...read a manual! :-P I love manuals :D

 

Basicly, what's done is done...stop calling the guy stupid. He did what he wanted to accomplish...He wanted people to know he did it...otherwise he probaly could have figured out a way to prevent anyoen from finding out he did or or atleast give everyone a head ache before finding out he did it.

 

Bah, i'm rambling on..i'm giogn to go play EL now <_< Startign to make less sense....

 

EDIT: Just to make thigns clear, I don't think he should be given any sort of slack as enyo said or what not...this deffiantely isen't worth jail time though...but like ent said...comunity service, fiens, etc. (To think I do Comunity service every once in a while just to do it <_< lol ). He could have simply created the exploit and reported it and even published it after it was fixed and got his glorry without getting in trouble. Nothing wron with that at all if he were to do that :D

Edited by chatterbug89

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Queen, he didn't get you. It appears he got people only since 27 of July to 30 of July.

Creepin_Death, what is your username on the forums? And please leave it there, as I need more evidence for the police.

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I just enjoy arguing ;)

 

...you guys seem to be continuesly saying how stupid he was and what not and it is sort of...anoying

I did not use the term "stupid". I used the words "Smart?... I dont think so" :lol:. And I think he wasn't smart indeed. That does not mean I think he is stupid, I think that he did something wrong, as you said. Just a words confussion. ;)

 

Reverse enginnerring illegal ....ther ewould be no DSLinux and I would ahve never gotten interested in acutaly building circuits!  Yay for Reverse Engeenering and my book, "Designing embeded hardware" :-P  Nothing is wrong with reverse engineering

 

About the rev engineering, strictly speaking you are right, but... i talked about cracks (true that I said it in a not so accurate way, the language betrays me again), well, it all depends on countries and also in the use that you do of the cracked software. In spain the SGAE (translated, General Society of Spain Authors) is trying to illegalize the backup copies for personal use, that will not happen cause it will drive spain to another civil war :lol: but if someday it happens in any other country (I dont know if is already illegal in any country) then you will not be able to crack anything, since you cant make a copy to modify it. Of course, and even when a cracker does his best to provide a legal way to do somethings like use emulators and legal backups that crack maybe used on an illegal way by 99% of its users. That is for sure. That is the reason why the legallity is not so clear in many ocassions.

 

EDIT: You do make some of that stuff sound a little easier than it acutaly is <_<  Though most of what you said is fairly simple, if not all if people acutaly used there brains for once...or if the world was comming to an end...oh my gosh...read a manual! :-P  I love manuals :)

 

Well, i said "most" not "all". And that is true, most programs can be cracked with a very basic knowledge of assembler, softICE, some limited subset of the api, and changing some 74s for 75s or making some nop's in a hex editor (true or not?). Of course, not all the programs are only that, some needs a special decompresor (there are many), other are encrypted and tricked with thousands of propietary algos from some lost dll in somewhere, and many other are just crazy messes that some kind of bright genious made almost impossible to understand. I know that, anyway, my skills are cracker are pure crap. I sometimes look into that for funI have no time to freak all day with that, and since I use linux in my house, and since the time I spend right now with windows machines is so limited I need no cracks for anything and have no time to step further on that (nor any interest for now). The only exception are the nocds for the couple psx games that I own, but I download that, since I have not skills no crack that. BTW, I like manuals also :)

 

Regarding the ips and that thing, the thing is as easy as to get a shell account anywhere with a silly admin (most of windows ones do not log anything at all) and attack from there. Of course, you will need to have space in that account to use the programs that you need, well, that is the harder part, but not impossible. There should be zilliions of methods, but im not a hacker, so I dont know them ;) There are millions of lammerish (mostly outdated, but still) docs in the net to make such lame things.

 

I share your idea, thou, that, for this, jail is too excesive. I dont think anyone is going to jail him for that anyway. But I also did not use the word "jail" :lol: I used punishment.

 

- Regarrds, people

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Well, I was quite shocked to see this - perfect timing for such exploit since both Mihai and myself were out of reach, and Grum burried in work. I am glad that Learner and Radu handled it, but I'll see if there's some more things that could be done to prevent this type of situation in the future.

 

I am deeply sorry for the inconvenience everyone. And sorry that the hacker apparently chose the hard way - crime has consequences, but it could've been solved outside the judical system.

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