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Mr.Mind

richery

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Richery was a character created by the RICH guild for the purpose of selling our items on the market channel. We have been stocking him for some time now. We only started to have him sell items since yesterday.

 

This morning, I explained to placid who richery is and what we were doing with him. Here is the chat log.

 

Placid: Anyone have steel shields?

MrMind178: richery does...

Placid: How do you know? :)

Placid: Reading his mind? :)

MrMind178: he's our seller guy and I stocked him with 100 last night :)

Placid: Oh, a guild char?

MrMind178: yeah

MrMind178: kinda like oeau_blacksmith

Placid: Whos runs him then? o,0

MrMind178: me.. is that ok/

Placid: hmm

MrMind178: I don't use him for myself

Placid: Well yes

Placid: But you MUST not trade with yourself between the two chars.

Placid: That is highly illegal.

MrMind178: yeah

MrMind178: I don't

Gadai: If you prefer one of the council can log out to log him in? just made sense to concentrate our resources for selling outside the guild..

Placid: If you want to trade with him, someone else (not run by you) must do it.

Placid: Agreed?

MrMind178: that's fair

Placid: I.E, someone on another IP.

MrMind178: reasonable, I understand

Gadai: Absolutely:)

Placid: If you do that, its fine.

 

When I said "I don't", I had meant that "I won't". From the fact that I had stocked him earlier, I would think placid assumed that I traded with him. When I had done so, there was nothing that indicated to me there was anything illegal about stocking him. However, after Placid's explanation, I did plan to no longer make any of those trades. (I am not looking to cause any trouble, simply do my merchanting and have fun selling items)

 

A few minutes after this conversation, still selling items on richery (even some mods bought things from him), Placid, Aislinn, and Soldus appear in TG storage to tell me that richery has been banned for illegal multiplaying. I understand that there would be a reason for this if I had done trading after talking to Placid, but right after being told he was legal seemed like pretty horrendous timing to me.

 

I ask only one thing. That richery be unlocked so that he can continue trading as a legal character. There were no intentions of illegal multiplaying, and I was not benefitting from this as people do from muling. Obviously, I have no plans of using him in an illegal way. That is a promise.

 

I am sorry for any inconvenience I may have caused for the mods.

 

Good day.

Edited by Mr.Mind

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As I explained to you, in that log, it IS illegal to trade like you were doing.

At the time, I had no proof of you trading with it, until server logs were provided. I explained the illegalities of doing this, and you didn't say that you had been. Therefore, not only did you lie, you understood that you were doing something illegal.

 

Secondly, you were warned BEFORE this about doing such acts with characters like drunkensailor. You have had too many chances, and you should count yourself lucky that your main character was not banned.

 

Lastly, but not least:

25. Moderation is never a topic for public discussion.

Issues and questions regarding forum policies and procedures should be addressed to the game administrators(namely Roja or Entropy) or the specific moderator via private message or email. Issues and problems concerning other forum or game moderators should also be addressed privately with Entropy or Roja. All private messages will remain classified unless otherwise agreed upon. Public threads on these issues will be removed.

 

[EDIT]

Just thought i'd point out, you can buy a store bot for only $20 to do this activity, _LEGALLY_

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Placid ok'd RICHery based on incomplete information from you, server logs proved that you WERE and HAD BEEN illegal multiplaying for quite some time on this character.

 

Also this is not the first character you were caught illegal multiplaying on, I can't imagine how you can claim ignorance of the rules.

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This is not a question for moderation. I am simply using this section of the forums for what it is designed. In the end, the almighty entropy has the final authority. I am not here to argue, just to see his thoughts on the subject, and consider input from other players.

Edited by Mr.Mind

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This doesn't just affect MrMind; Richery stored the goods for the entire Guild -- some 150 innocent players/characters have been affected by the ban.

 

Most guild members would not be aware of the technical details of how this character was administered, but all have worked hard and long to earn the assets which he holds on their behalf. Whatever happens to Richery the character, we would really appreciate that the Guild assets are returned somehow.

 

As for the character -- Placid indicated that there is a legitimate way to operate this type of character. If this is true, then couldn't some compromise be reached?

 

Richery was serving a purpose due to a shortcoming in the game -- namely no Guild storage facility. Such a facility is sorely needed for those guilds intent on mercantile activities. I recal there was mention in a suggestions thread that implementing Guild storage into the new storage dialogs has been considered.

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This doesn't just affect MrMind; Richery stored the goods for the entire Guild -- some 150 innocent players/characters have been affected by the ban.

 

Most guild members would not be aware of the technical details of how this character was administered, but all have worked hard and long to earn the assets which he holds on their behalf.  Whatever happens to Richery the character, we would really appreciate that the Guild assets are returned somehow.

 

As for the character -- Placid indicated that there is a legitimate way to operate this type of character.  If this is true, then couldn't some compromise be reached?

 

Richery was serving a purpose due to a shortcoming in the game -- namely no Guild storage facility.  Such a facility is sorely needed for those guilds intent on mercantile activities.  I recal there was mention in a suggestions thread that implementing Guild storage into the new storage dialogs has been considered.

182712[/snapback]

A guild STORAGE character would not be trying to sell items either, and should move around or do other things. For selling you should do it yourself or get a legal bot (which can't move around, etc).

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Guest Kidania

Richery is important to all members of Rich, we have hundreds (if not thousands) of man-hours of work stored on it, projects that involved the entire guild for weeks at a time. We had seriously intended for Richery to be legal and there wasnt supposed to be any direct trading...

 

Richery was just a front for our guild so we could produce, store, and sell in bulk, we didnt want a bot for many reasons, most importantly so that we could add a human touch to the trades from our guild and update our prices on the fly to ensure that we always provided the best deal.

 

If you wont unban the character seriously at least give us a couple hours to get our items off, thats the legitimate work of 150 players on there.

Edited by Kidania

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Our intent was to have a character that could do both. Giving richery a human touch rather than the excessively monotonous bot recordings to sell, and at the same time using him to store items that guildmembers did not use themselves. A bot cannot serve both purposes at once.

 

Also, none of us have the skills to program ANY type of bot, leaving us at a disadvantage if if a coded bot were required.

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Well MrMind as guild leader should have considered you all first before engaging in illegal activities. Like we said, this is NOT the first time he was caught, and told the consequences of these actions. If you have issues, you really all need to take them up with your guild leader. It is unfortunate that you have all lost items, but it is more unfortunate that your guild leader chose to gamble with your belongings in this way. <_<

Other guilds manage just fine with the legal methods of storage.

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I was not told about the legality issue until just before he was banned. I assumed everything we had done with him was ok. The rules on illegal multiplaying are extremely vague.

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I'm sorry Mr. Mind, were you some how unable to read the rules of this game?

 

Were you all this time unable to access these forums and read the content of other posts?

 

A quick search belies that. So you do know. And if there is any question, mods in game, or mods on forums could have answered them.

 

And by the way Mr Mind... next time, don't brag in-game that you've been caught numerous times with only a slap on the wrists. Your own conversations have been proof enough that you know of the illegality of your actions.

 

Buy a store bot. Play by the rules..

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Guest Kidania

We didnt want a store bot, there was a long debate when we started Richery and we decided we would rather have a player-operated storage/store.

 

I cant stress enough that everybody had intended to operate it legally... As for MrMind... I just dont know what happened to our original plan.

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A guild STORAGE character would not be trying to sell items either, and should move around or do other things. For selling you should do it yourself or get a legal bot (which can't move around, etc).

182713[/snapback]

 

Quite true. As I understand it, trading directly from Richery (to non-guild members) is a new feature (as in last few days), and one which is really unnecessary as it only saved one intermediate step.

 

I did not think that Richery was used to move around or do other things, except maybe taking a step for the purpose of bag trading -- which will be redundant when storage trade becomes available.

Edited by trollson

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I was not told about the legality issue until just before he was banned. I assumed everything we had done with him was ok. The rules on illegal multiplaying are extremely vague.

 

As far as i see richery was not declared as a bot on bots page. So running richery as a guild bot withot being declared is ILEGAL.

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As far as i see richery was not declared as a bot on bots page. So running richery as a guild bot withot being declared is ILEGAL.

182846[/snapback]

 

Richery is not a bot. As I understand, he is a normal character shared between the RICH Guild Council, to represent Guild Assets.

 

The issue appears to be that goods passed between Richery and the regular character of the player controlling him at that time. As Placid states in the original dialog, trade is illegal between two characters from the same IP, but otherwise the character of Richery could be operated legally:

Placid: But you MUST not trade with yourself between the two chars.

Placid: That is highly illegal.

...

Placid: If you want to trade with him [Richery], someone else (not run by you) must do it.

Placid: Agreed?

 

So the perception we* have is that due to a technical infringement** the assets of c.150 hard working honest players/characters have been effectively seized.

 

*) Myself and other regular guildmembers from the ensuing discussions.

**) Of which it is unclear how the game has been exploited, or who has benifited.

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:P Look, I'm not a RICH member, but I've got some real great buddies in there, so I think it's kind of my duty to help. I'm not here to claim innocents and guilties, though.

 

So I'll try to get to a reasonable way to solve this issue without hurts and deads. If RICH guild paid for the right of having a regular bot, would it be Richery itself with all the goods in him? If so, we could reach a solution nice an' easy. :hiya:

 

If not... well... we'll have a long road of discussions ahead. -_-

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So the perception we* have is that due to a technical infringement** the assets of c.150 hard working honest players/characters have been effectively seized.

182849[/snapback]

Let's get it right:

*Many* *technical infringements* over a *long* period of time, which the guild leader no less, has done. He has had other characters locked as well for illegal multiplaying and muling. He was not ignorant of any rules, nor was this a one time accidental event.

 

The long discussions you all will be having won't be with us, they should be with your guild leader about why you all are in his guild in the first place if he is playing so carelessly with your trust and belongings.

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Well, you wanted other player's input so here is mine:

 

MrMind, sorry to say it, but it sounds like you're up Sh*t Creek. You broke rules and you must pay for them...however, not only you must pay for them, now, but your guild mates as well. Perhaps a little more thought could have avoided this situation.

 

Here's where I think you went wrong:

 

It is pretty clear by the mod's statements before on this thread that you have had some trouble with multiplaying before. So clearly you were aware of the rules surrounding the issue. Even though Richery (rich being associated to greed with and -ery sounding from the word trechery, trickery? Richery, not a very wise choice of names IMO) was not your character, it was an *unregistered* public resource that you were using on your account to trade with *yourself*. It seems, even though Richery being a public resource does muddle the view a bit, that this is a text book situation of illegal multiplaying. I think that with your alleged past some questions SHOULD have come to mind that you could have posed to mods and cleared this situation up before it happened.

 

Now:

 

I do think that the actions of the guild leader should percolate through to the guild members as a painful reminder to take more participation in the way the guild is run. But I will petition for the innocent members of RICH to get their items back. I do this only because I can empathize with those who did not understand the situation before they committed themselves.

 

Please RICH members, get more involved...things like this SHOULDN'T happen

Edited by Quinticus

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As far as i see richery was not declared as a bot on bots page. So running richery as a guild bot withot being declared is ILEGAL.

182846[/snapback]

If you are saying that bots are not required to be "programmed bots", and can be used for the purpose richery was designed for... where does it say this in the information for registering bots? Had I known that were possible, I would have done it immediately after the character was created. Every bot I've seen is one to be programmed.

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If you pay 20 USD (to have the right to use it as a commerce bot), or if you pay 100 USD (have the right to use it as a commerce bot with huge carry load) then I will unban it.

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If you are saying that bots are not required to be "programmed bots", and can be used for the purpose richery was designed for... where does it say this in the information for registering bots?  Had I known that were possible, I would have done it immediately after the character was created.  Every bot I've seen is one to be programmed.

182881[/snapback]

These are the bot rules. You get them either by going to the bots section in forums or clicking the button at the top of your forum page. By reading them ALL and agreeing to these terms, you click "I agree" and that will take you to the bot registration page. Make sure to read ALL rules. Any questions can be posted in the appropriate section in the bots section of the forums.

 

Eternal Land's Bot Rules

 

1. All bots must be declared. Any other kind of bot must be explicitly approved.

2. Bots that only talk are OK, as long as they don't spam local chat or a main channel, and they are not breaking any of the game rules.

3. The only bots that are allowed to buy and sell now are paid bots.

4. Trade bots cannot be in range of any storage.

5. Bots that serve their master in a way such as muling are illegal (see the rules for multiplaying).

6. Bots cannot be stationed in range of harvestable items. They must be far enough way so that they cannot harvest from where they are standing.

7. No bots are allowed on Isla Prima unless agreed upon by us.

8. Bots can not make items or level up* in any skills using any automated program(s), or manually. If the Player wants to level the bot manually, this has to be done BEFORE the character becomes a bot and is declared to be one, NOT use any automating programs which would go against the main game rules, Rule #6. If a bot is in a map where there are monsters who will attack it, it is ok if the bot just stands there and is attacked, like an afk player, but the bot is not allowed to initiate attacks, nor is it allowed to be stationed near a monster spawn.

9. Commerce bots have to be stationary, with a few exceptions (such as going to the storage every once in a while, or some bots going to resuply, if an exception is made in their case).

 

*Exceptions to the rule of no leveling up in any skill MIGHT be possible but only after having Entropy

know about it and agreed upon. You must discuss these issues with him and give all details as to why

your bot should be allowed to level up.

**These rules can be added to or revised at any given time.

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Although I understand the rules are the same for everybody and I also think that MrMind was aware he was breaking the rules, I find it really hard for the guild members to lose the result of all their hard work because of their uncautious guild leader.

May I suggest that Mr.Mind takes the responsibility of his acts and pays for his guild compagnions? I suggest that the mods decide for a fee that Mr.Mind would have to pay for his errors (not in USD but a "game" fee).

 

Grossbouff, for the peace in EL

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