Discussing the Book Prices

[Roja]

Well since I've seen a lot of controversy in some other threads, I thought it best to dedicate one thread specificially for this. I'd like you to give well thought out, mature ideas and opinions on the new book prices here. Even make revised price lists if you think necessary.

 

Also, a thing to note:

The book drops from the monsters will either become very RARE(and only a few books at that will be dropped), or we might just make books ONLY buyable.

 

Please give this a lot of thought!! THINK what's best for the game and players as a whole, not just yourself!!!!

 

Eternal Lands NPC Book Salespeople

Ardur – Naralik (125,67)

Metallurgy, Smelting, Mining, and Molding

 

Metallurgy 30

Metal Smelting 50

Iron Smelting 100

Gold Smelting 250

Silver Smelting 500

Steel Smelting 1,000

Titanium Smelting 3,000

 

Metal Mining 250

Iron Mining 500

Silver Mining 2,500

Gold Mining 1,000

Titanium Mining 7,500

 

Metal Molding 500

Iron Molding 1,000

Silver Molding 2,000

Gold Molding 1,500

Steel Molding 5,000

Titanium Molding 10,000

 

 

Brogan – Portland (191,357)

Crystal Technology, and Processing

 

Crystal Technology 30

Crystal Mining 50

Quartz Mining 150

Rose Mining 250

Blue Mining 350

Ruby Mining 2,500

Emerald Mining 5,000

Sapphire Mining 10,000

Diamond Mining 7,500

 

Crystal Processing 50

Sapphire Processing 2,500

Emerald Processing 5,000

Ruby Processing 1,000

Diamond Processing 2,000

 

 

Dan – White Stone City (108,694)

Weapon, Armour, and Shield Construction

 

Weapon Construction 100

Sword Construction 200

Iron Sword Construction 400

Iron Broad Sword Construction 500

Steel Long Sword Construction 1,000

Steel Two Edge Sword Construction 2,000

Titanium Short Sword Construction 4,000

Titanium Long Sword Construction 10,000

Titanium Serpent Sword Construction 50,000

Axe Construction 30,000

Iron Axe Construction 35,000

Steel Axe Construction 40,000

Titanium Axe Construction 55,000

 

Armour Construction 500

Head Armour Construction 500

Leg Armour Construction 500

Torso Armour Construction 1,000

Feet Armour Construction 500

Leather Helmet Construction 400

Iron Helmet Construction 1,000

Leather Pants Construction 500

Iron Cuisses Construction 5,000

Leather Padded Construction 1,000

Iron Chain Construction 2,500

Steel Chain Construction 5,000

Titanium Chain Construction 20,000

Iron Plate Construction 40,000

Iron Greaves Construction 8,000

Shield Construction 500

Iron Shield Construction 1,000

Steel Shield Construction 5,000

 

 

Frukas – White Stone (125,129)

Biology, Alchemy, and Potion Making

 

Biology 50

Biochemistry 75

Botanics 75

Anatomy 100

 

Advanced Alchemy 100

Life Essence 500

Death Essence 200

Health Essence 1,000

Magic Essence 2,000

 

Advanced Potions 100

Vitality 150

Coordination 250

Will 250

Wildness 500

Physique 750

Body Restoration 1,000

Feasting 2,000

Manufacture 2,500

Crafting 3,000

Summoning 5,000

Magic 7,500

 

 

Italli – Tarsengaard (first door on the left in the Music School/’magic shop’ on map)

Jewelry, Medallion, and Ring Building

 

Jewelry Technology 200

Crystal Embedding 500

Ruby Embedding 1,000

Emerald Embedding 1,000

Sapphire Embedding 1,000

Diamond Embedding 2,000

 

Generic Medallions Building 250

Silver Medallion Building 500

Gold Medallion Building 500

Sun Medallion Building 1,000

Stars Medallion Building 1,500

Unicorn Medallion Building 3,000

Moon Medallion Building 10,000

 

Generic Rings Building 150

Silver Ring Building 500

Gold Ring Building 400

Isla Prima Ring Building 1,000

Desert Pines Ring Building 1,500

Ring Of Damage Building 5,000

Portland Ring Building 1,500

Naralik Ring Building 1,500

White Stone Ring Building 2,000

Valley Of The Dwarves Ring Building 3,500

Disengagement Ring Building 10,000

 

 

Nahark – Grubani Peninsula (68,114)

Summoning, and Fighting Techniques

 

Advanced Summoning 50

Snake Summoning 100

Wolf Summoning 100

Boar Summoning 200

Skeleton Summoning 500

Gargoyles Summoning 1,000

Puma Summoning 2,000

Bear Summoning 5,000

Fluffy Summoning 10,000

Chimeran Mountain Wolf Summoning 20,000

 

Combat Tactics 50

Goblin Fighting 100

Skeleton Fighting 250

Gargoyle Fighting 500

Puma Fighting 500

Bear Fighting 1,000

Orc Fighting 2,000

Troll Fighting 5,000

Cyclops Fighting 10,000

Dwarf Fighting 20,000

Elf Fighting 20,000

Human Fighting 20,000

 

 

By Ujio, SCO

[JohnnyWrath]

These prices are much better in my opinion. There are still a lot of books laying around, but I think this will help give them more value than something people won't even pick up.

[Phenic]

Well since I've seen a lot of controversy in some other threads, I thought it best to dedicate one thread specificially for this. I'd like you to give well thought out, mature ideas and opinions on the new book prices here. Even make revised price lists if you think necessary.

 

Please give this a lot of thought!! THINK what's best for the game and players as a whole, not just yourself!!!!

171623[/snapback]

 

I remember when first joining this game, wondering why the books were so inexpensive. With the exception of 'Gen Axe', books of all types, whether drop or NPC bought, were just given away. One would think that the more specialized the book, or the higher level needed to utilize the knowledge, the more expensive or rare it would be.

 

I highly approve of these new prices.

 

However, I believe there is a problem. It isn't about the actual new price of the books, it's the fact that a majority of players have already gained the knowledge without paying the current price.

 

This does create a potentially harmful divide between players who were fortunate enough to join the game early and read, and those just joining whom are interested in in mining and manufacturing (amongst other things). Looking just at Gemstone Mining, it now costs 25,000 gc for all of the Gemstone Books. What was the price before? A few 1000 for all? Less?

 

I am not saying that new players cannot or should not earn that much GC just for resource books. I think it encourages more thought as to what truly should be invested in first, to what activities they want to participate in next. It also will take GC out of the game, and with the current economic state, that is a bonus. I am saying that this DOES have an effect on how new players grow in the game, through experience, the skills they chose, and finances.

 

Older players now profit from:

1. Having the knowledge - It will take longer for new players to gain it, and they will not be capable of making the items until later in their character development than their elder peers. How much time extra time is a variable.

2. Having not had to spend tens of thousands of gc early on in their game - Purely economically, every GC not spent at an NPC has the potential to earn a player more GC via item investments. It might not effect a player's livelyhood to take away that particular sum of GC now, it's the longterm effects that are under speculation.

 

This is a major economic change to the game, and steps should be taken to ensure that it effects all players, regardless of whether they're new and unlettered, or have researched every last page. People get very unhappy when the words 'reset' or 'stat reset' come up, but under ideals of making sure this price change helps instead of hindering both economy and character development, the possibilities should at least be considered.

[Dent]

About the only one I would wonder about is the sapphinre mining price. It really is a huge jump.

 

Otherwise, this list is a great baseline for book prices.

 

Does this mean that all of the previously rare books are now available for purchase, and if so, will monsters stop dropping them? The monster drops will throw a serious wrench into the pricing if they are to continue while rare books are being sold by NPC's.

[Daejin]

The Top end price of Books is fine i agree with Phenic, and i would also add that the low end for most npc books is unbalanced. The idea is to try and have people sell the extra books to the npc? It wont happen because of the simple fact that having the price so low and the top end so high of a difference, it will create a new market for books, but not one that will help the game. It will only make the rich Richer, and the poor poorer. I would be really intrested to see the statistics on who use's the npc to sell books.

 

1st Example -

 

Rich person with 50 books in storage - See's NPC's prices are dirt cheap - hmmm, ill advertise on market chan --> Selling Rare Books pm me --> Newb --> PM's Book seller> Hi i need Iron Mining --> Book Person> Sure great i will sell it for 800 --> Newb > Okay great thats a good deal, since its 1000 in shop, give me 20 minutes and ill harvest 800 gc. END Result 800 more gc to rich person

 

2nd Example -

 

Rich Person with 50 books in storage - See's that NPC price for selling the book is 500. Hmm thats not a bad price to get for one book, ill sell to npc, instead of trying to find a buyer. End Result 500 More gc to rich person, and newb harvests 1000 gc, and buys the book from npc, thus ending the vicious cycle.

 

Of course none of this matters, and no amount of npc adjustments will matter if there is way to many book drops from monsters. Book drops should be rare from monsters, and more gc drops instead to compensate the fighters. If someone is going to sell a rare book for 300-500gc, that might as well just translate directly into gc as a drop instead. Thus the fighter will still have to buy the fight books from shop, on most occasions.

Edited June 18, 2005 by Daejin

[bofred]

i already proposed to make books readable for several times, to boost their providing effect. with this, those book-NPC prices are fine.

[shasso]

If the drop ratio from monsters remains the same, this is totally pointless, but if its seriously reduced, these prices should in general be ok, except for maybe a few of them, like Sapphire and Diamond mining, Iron and Steel axe, Summon and Magic potion seem a bit too expensive when considering the money you can make after reading them. But its true though that everything doesnt need to pay off..

[Roja]

Ah, sorry! I forgot to say that the book drops from the monsters will nearly all dissapear. Only exceptions will be some RARE book drops from the higher lvl monsters every now and then-if we even do that. We might just make books ONLY buyable.

 

I'll edit my first post to reflect this

[dns_server]

overall i like the prices but it could use some tweeks in the prices. i think it would be better to have a lower increase in prices but starting at a higer price so the difference between the cheapest and most expensive book is not as high.

 

I think the Crystal Technology, and Processing is way too expensive, perhaps a big reduction in prices for the mineing would be better. why is saphire mineing way more expensiv than titanium? i recomend prices somewhere between the old prices and the new for this category with the books being priced around 1-4k instead of 6-10k.

As crafting is already one of the hardest profesions to make a profit it should not require as big investment as it is already hard. you require 4 inorganic nexis to mine minerals then 3 artificial and 2 magic to make the top rings. Add on the prices for all the books it gets expensive, after all these costs you are left with a skill that produces verry little profit if any.

 

Silver Mining is a bit over priced and should be a little easyer to get as it is the easyest mineral to get to and forms the basis createing helth essences, perhaps reduceing it to 1700gc would be a little better. Titanium mineing seems resonable as it opens up a good source of income but does seem out of place haveing a huge jump to it.

 

fighting i think is a little too easy for the gains you get from reading them so how about moveing the prices for the lower books up: Combat Tactics 150, Goblin Fighting 250, Skeleton Fighting 500, Gargoyle Fighting 1000.

 

 

Overall it all seems resonable but does need to be tweeked to be fairer, some of the top books are way too expensive, and the books have a too low starting price, so i would even the prices out a bit and make the jump between prices more liniar. perhaps make the prices of most books between 500-4000 with some special cases such as chimeran summoning and human fighting being really expensive like they are now and starting books being around 150=500.

[Derin]

The basic books should be fairly cheap I think,so the 'ladder' of knowledge is reflected in the pricing.

 

I agree with dns for most of the part except that the intro books should still be very cheap.

 

For monster drops; book drops should be very rare except for perhaps some special books and for some new books, where the knowledge is supposed to be secret, but got stolen by some monsters (or something like that).

[scarr]

Newbs think now they can sell tit/steel/iron axe books for like 40k

its stupid

[Halakermaker]

Well since the NPC price went up they thought they could sell for a bit cheaper than then NPC's and make alot of money.

[Magentix]

Correct me if I'm wrong but e.g.:

 

Iron Mining went up from 25gc to 500 gc, that's TIMES TWENTY ! ! !

 

25 gc IS indeed way too low, but I think raising the prices of much needed books times 5 and less needed books 10 times will do...

 

Example:

Iron mining is VERY wanted with starting players: times 5 = 125 gc, a reasonable price...

 

Titanium axe construction is only wanted by highleveled, rich players, so times 10 will suffice...

 

BUT MOST OF ALL:

 

I think it should be REALLY well concidered decreasing the prices again, but INCREASING the research points! 2000 research points for iron mining might aswell be 5000 BECAUSE unlike the prices, this WILL AFFECT ALL PLAYERS, not only the poor ones... And it gives more satisfaction when finishing a book

 

In short:

 

LOWER PRICES by 2 or by 4

INCREASE RESEARCH POINTS by 2 or by 4

[phoenix83]

i can cope with the new prices, only thing i dont like is the summoning and fighting books being in grubani, its hard 2 get here 4 weaker characters since there r chims, ogres, trolls and fluffys here, could these books not b moved 2 dp or something?

[m_bee]

I think that the prices are right. The only thing that I don't like is the book buyer NPC. She pays 1% of the book value. I think that something like 10-15% would be more realistic.

 

For sure, if you have a market where the serp book is 50k and the npc buys it for 500 then you will find lots of poeple willing to pay 15k-25k for that book. And both, the buyer and seller NPC will suffer from that. IMO the book buyer in Nordcarn should be removed, if she is going to keep that prices.

[Guest Trojan_Knight]

I think most of the prices are somewhat okay that are listed.. I think silver molding should be worth more than sliver mining though. As well as I think leather helmet construction an iron helmet construction should both be raised. To level out the cost of the leather helmet due to the price of Head Construction.

 

As in for a over all. I would say this.. That unless npc's buy books for more. Or unless player owned bots also buy books for more an sell them for more. That I dont think the way books are currently in game. Will work well for either new or old players when dealing with books as in learning ordeal, or money issue. I think their is to big of a gap between npc selling prices an npc buying prices or bot prices. Im not saying to make buying bots or npc's buying prices higher than the selling costs of npc's. But to just raise them so that as least on the market channel they seem valueable. So that people believe their valuable wheather new or old players..

 

As for making rich richer, an poor poorer. I agree with ya.. So my conclusion to that would be to. Wipe out of everyones storage or inventory of unread rare books or etc. That way no one looses anything they already read. And no one gains gc from selling the extras they may have. I know if done I will lose alot of books. As so will many others. But to me, that seems like the best idea for everyone.

 

As for moster drops.. I think the final 1 or 2 top books from each catorgory, ie: nexus fighting books, serp & axe construction books, an etc that are the best of their catorgy or of that npc that could sell them. Should be made super rare. And the rest should be buyable from a npc. Also I think more reading time should be done as well on the super rare books, or mid books to higher rare books.

 

But either way this is done. People are going to complain. Wheather it be some of us that are manu's, fighters, craftsmen, new or old players an etc. Its human nature to complain about things that are unfamilar or new.

 

Well thats my two cents, peace

 

Trojan Knight

[Mr.Mind]

Its human nature to complain about things that are unfamilar or new.

172017[/snapback]

Or completely unfair.

 

I think book prices should be based upon the level that they require and the amount of xp you will get from the item that the particular book helps you with. Right now the prices just seem random.

[trollson]

Just a couple of thoughts I had during my long drive to work last week. Maybe better in the suggestions box, but what the hell...

 

Book prices are one thing, but players should feel that they are making progress. Maybe more intermediate books for less cost? I know that would mean a client change though (IMHO skills, books, nexuses, shouldn't be hardcoded with the client, but lists pushed as part of the character stats from the server).

 

Increase the reading time instead of, or along with cost. A long reading time means you have to play the game, and keep yourself fed. However, there is the problem of 'reset' and Reasoning abuse.

 

Literacy nexus anybody? More difficult books require greater literacy nexus levels? More client change though. 'reset' loses nexuses, lose knowledge or just the ability to use the knowledge?

 

Illiteracy (negative) perk also becons...

[Gunslingers]

Please read to the end of the post, it is on-topic

 

The Governers of Seridia today made this statement to the general public:

 

"Ever since the new races found their way from their homeland to Seridia, the continent has evolved immensely.

 

Gnomes kindly brought a lot of their new inventions across to Seridia, and in exchange for cheaper housing they opened up daily schools to teach the people what the new technology could do. This has been beneficiary to many people all across the continent. Blacksmiths now have improved techniques for manufacturing their weapons and armour, and the herbalists can now provide more effective medicine against poisons and diseases, as well as creating temporary-effect potions for use in combat. The Alchemists union and several Dwarven villages are now working with the Gnomes in a joint effort to provide the population with High quality weapons and armour, and a wide range of potions and herbs.

 

As well as the gnomes, we also had some Draegoni Lords looking to retire here in Seridia. They ventured to Isla Prima, but not long moved to Tarsengaard. They are now (with the help of a high-council of Lords) running the magic school, and teaching the basics of Magic to many new travellers across Seridia. They even have an advanced school for those who can harness and contain their magic abilities. Rumour has it one of their students is behind the current wave of monster invasions, but there are no confirmed sightings as of yet. The Draegoni Lords are urging all residents and travellers to come along to the magic school and learn the basic healing magical spells.

 

When the Orchan's heard of the monster invasions, a tribe or war generals set up camp in Southern Kilaran, near the Kilaran fields. They have issued a statement to all of Seridia that anyone who wants to learn basic and/or advanced combat techniques should travel in groups to meet them in Southern Kilaran or a newly-built safe-house in Isla Prima. The Orchans are known for the savage warrior instincts, we just hope that their dark-forces dont align with the person(s) behind the monster invasions."

 

As a result of this statement, the Mayors of all the major cities in Seridia published this statement:

 

"We greet all of our new neighbours and friends into our towns and cities. We have already seen many advances in technology, herbalism, magic and combat across the land, and as a result of this, representatives of the six races have combined their resources to produce new manuals, books, encyclopedias, tutorials and scrolls that will be readily available from libraries and well known people all across the land. As a result of this, all previous knowledge is now out-dated, and work permits will only be issued to those who pass new exams that can only be completed by studying this new literature."

 

If the game was more RP-based, you could issue similar statements in-game somehow, but I doubt posting something like that on the forums would have much positive feedback. Whereas it would be a bit more successful from an RP point of view, as it sounds more realistic, and players would generally accept that. Obviously there would still be the bunch that complain, but where would we be without those who want something for nothing, and assume every change is unfair

 

The point I'm trying to make is, once these prices have been decided and implemented in game, wipe everyones books-read list so we have to start again. I know it wont be welcomed by those who complain, because you'll essentially be taking away many hours of research, but when you think about it, we only have to wait for the book to be completed.. we dont have any tasks to complete, things to do, places to be.. there are no other requirements to research other than the cost of the books themselves, and the time it takes to read them.. but you're not restricted to sitting down and doing nothing just because you have to wait for certain research to be completed. The new players are going to feel this more due to the increased prices, so why should those of us who have been playing a while get the benefit of not having to go through that? Its unfair for the newer players. Older players shouldnt have an advantage just because they have been playing the game longer.. thats what your skills/levels represent, not your research.

 

As an alternative idea to wiping research completely, you could restrict the amount of exp that can be gained per hour, similar to harvesting, until the new books have been read. You would still have to read all the pre-requisite books that are needed for any skill, but maybe the amount of exp you gain per hour is increased depending on how many of the new books you read, and you finally get unlimited exp per hour (except harvesting) when you have read all the books for a required skill.

[Arnieman]

A few thoughts I've had:

 

1.)Book Prices and the new book NPCs:

I have not really had chance to interact with the new sellers and buyers, so I won't go into any big speech on the book prices. I will say that I feel that, if the prices are as I've seen here, I believe some are a little overpriced.

 

I do like the idea of splitting the NPCs and diversifying them a little more, and having them move around for more exploration. I think we need to replace Golric (sp?) somewhere, and give him a new job, since you took all his books away. :lol:

 

One final thing (on point 1), I've heard of the small amounts of gold offered for books by the new book buyer, and I feel that the price difference between what is offered per book and what books are sold for is a bit ridiculous. Maybe a more reasonable idea that would fix the overprice issue as well would be to set an ideal "target price" that you'd want to find the book on the market for, and set the NPC sell prices 5-10% above that while setting the NPC buy prices 5-10% below that.

 

2.)Rare Book Dropping, and Book Storage:

I think the drop rate is just fine, maybe SLIGHTLY high, as it is. I think in all my fighting (though only been fighting gargs for a couple levels yet), I've encounterd a total of 3-4 dropped books. I understand that some fighters had such a flood of books that most books just weren't worth their time, and were just getting left. I think the dropping should be low, and all-round low, but not virtually nonexistant for players who just aren't lucky.

 

As for the "rare" books now being buyable, I like the idea. It provides a way for people to get books, other than hoping they can get a drop, or wait for someone else to get one. This does raise a question, tho. Will all books now be storable, will this remain the same as it is now, or will book storage be phased out altogether? Also, will the "lower" books that previously were buyable only become drops?

 

3.)The ongoing problem of too much coinage in circulation:

Here is a random idea I had, that is related to this topic, as well as others. I understand that there's a problem perceived in the amount of gold in the player economy, and that efforts are always done to reduce the amount therein. In such, certain "money sinks" have been established in items players cannot make (wine, thread, vials, etc.). I was thinking that a sink works two ways to keep from overflowing. Instead of trying to open more drains, what if we could turn down the faucets a bit? Maybe the flower buy prices could be reduced a bit, or other ways could be thought up to reduce the influx of money in the player economy?

 

Just a few ideas from me.

[phoenix83]

yeah that slows down the rate of people making money but wat about all the money most players have, channges being made affect the noobs more than any1 else so mayb raise cause with the new book prices and with your idea of lowering ow much flowers sell 4 then noobs and lower leveles people will have a very hard joib getting anywhere in this game, yeah book prices r fine 4 those who have already read all the books they need 2 so they dont have 2 buy more so they dont care about the prices so instead of changing the prices 4 everything mayb try and come up with a more reasonable idea that benefits every1 in the game

[Arnieman]

short of doing a full wipe of everything on every player, and making everyone start over, there's no real way to destroy the sense that there is a divide between the older and newer players.

 

If we have to do that any point down the road, I don't think we're ready.

[Guest silverleaf17]

I began playing eternal lands after the change was made. To be honest I think there are a couple of problems with it. Now that i've tried a couple of things, I realize the charm of this game isn't the fighting, which can even be tedious, but the crafting, questing and marketing. However, the locations of the book limit many things. I sugest you make the mineral mining and molding books available in white stone and the armor and weapon books in naralik. For as a newb one gets killed by goblins when trying to buy the first ones and the armor and weapon construction books are useless without the mining and molding, thus limiting the things you can do.

 

It's very hard to grow enough to survive the goblins and it becomes very tedious, since the only thing you can do is either kill a number of small animals appraching a gogol or harvesting a gogolplex of lilies. To be honest, for a long while it felt like I was making no progress and I almost gave it up. Now I decided to harves 15 k liliacs to buy a monster magnetism cloak and be able to buy the books.

 

By the way, I also think many of them are too expensive. Since they allow the players to grow, I think they should be cheaper (like silver mining being 1k instead of 2.5k).

 

See ya!

:battleaxe_rune:

 

PS Don't lower the selling prices of player's, the game would seem a dead end to any newbie.

[ttlanhil]

having them in hard to get places is supposed to increase the interaction... asking a fighter to escort or buy for you, that sort of thing

and the price... well... before this nearly all players more than a month or so old had read nearly all books. and that's just crazy, if everyone knows everything. that's probably part of the price hike

[m_bee]

http://www.eternal-lands.com/forum/index.p...topic=15648&hl=

 

I repeat, people complain 'cause they like to.