Michael Crook

[Entropy]

I'll offer $100 towards a hit man on this anti american a**hole!  Send him to Russia or Romania....let him see what life can be like without our "perks".

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Well, since you are ignorant enough to insult two countries you have no idea about, except maybe from the right wing conserative media, I feel obliged to also insult the great US of A and call it a fascist state, being the only so called 'civilized' country in the world that uses gulags against political opponents.

And while we are at insulting someone's else country, let's not forget that the religious freedom in US is limited to some form of Christian religion. For example, some US judge prohibits parents from teaching their kid "non mainsteam" religions.

 

[edit]

BTW, we do not endorse threats against people's lives here, so please refrain from similar comments in the future, k?

[giannis]

Well, since you are ignorant enough to insult two countries you have no idea about. 

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Maybe she was reffering to Russia before the collapse of the Soviet Union and Romania Before the Fall of Ceausescu. Although at that point those countries were not as JaneMuffin's account of Iran they were not exactly heavens of democracy either (especialy if you were a gipsy in Romania). Anyhow i would have been pissed too if she had said Greece instead of Romania or Russia.

 

I feel obliged to also insult the great US of A and call it a fascist state,

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It's not exactly a facist state (not yet atleast). The problem is that the US. overprotects minorities (the few) at the cost of the majorities (the many). An example is Christmass. Although the majority of ppl in the US celebrate Christmass. It has been forbiden for public schools to display Christmass decorations to protect the rights of the few kids that don't believe in christmass. This is by no means democratic since a decision like thist does not stem from the opinion of the majoritym but it is not exactly facist.

 

And while we are at insulting someone's else country, let's not forget that the religious freedom in US is limited to some form of Christian religion. For example, some US judge prohibits parents from teaching their kid "non mainsteam" religions.

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If The Church of Satan (and Later Day Demons ) Is a recognized church in the U.S. they might as well have allowed those parents teach their kid Wica (which i believe is also a recognized religion). Besides that was the order of a single Judge in Indiana (a Christian one no doubt) the parents are appealing and will probably win the case and if not they can always move to another state.

 

BTW, we do not endorse threats against people's lives here, so please refrain from similar comments in the future, k?

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Thank God.

Edited May 28, 2005 by giannis

[Entropy]

Maybe she was reffering to Russia before the collapse of the Soviet Union and Romania Before the Fall of Ceausescu. Although at that point those countries were not as JaneMuffin's account of Iran they were not exactly  heavens of democracy either (especialy if you were a gipsy in Romania). Anyhow i would have been pissed too if she had said  Greece instead of Romania or Russia.

If we are talking about past issues, then she could have said: "Send him to the US", because not even 200 years ago the US of A used salves and shit like that. The slaves had even fewer rights than the citizens in the post revolution Iran.

 

It's not exactly a facist state (not yet atleast).

Not as fascist as the pre WW2 Germany, but it is getting there. One good step is the Patriot Act.

 

Besides that was the order of a single Judge in Indiana (a Christian one no doubt)  the parents are appealing and will probably win the case and if not they can always move to another state.

 

But that judge shouldn't even have the OPTION to pass such an outrageous decission in the first place.

[Mireille]

US judge prohibits parents from teaching their kid "non mainsteam" religions.[/url]

 

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Don't forget the ape process. I wonder if it is still forbidden to teach Darwin's theory of evolution in some states.

[Entropy]

It's not forbidden, but there are many issues with teaching the evolution in some states.

Personally, I totally disagree with the evolution theory, as I believe in the Intelligent Design theory, and I think both should be teached.

[giannis]

Don't forget the ape process. I wonder if it is still forbidden to teach Darwin's theory of evolution in some states.

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They Don't Forbid the Teaching of Evolution, it is only Kansas that it is a Law to teach both the theory of evolution and Creationism.

[KillerQween]

First...it was a joke...I would never pay to have someone killed...if I seriously wanted it done...I'd do it myself Sorry if you thought that was serious.

 

As far as insulting countries...I did no such thing. It's well known that, although Russia is getting better about the freedoms it's citizens have, it still has a way to go. Some of the people wish to hang on to the old ways, and democracy isn't quite working well there yet. Also...regarding Romania...grab the current issue of National Geographic (my personal favorite magazine and a HUGE wealth of knowledge about the world) and read "Song of the Csangos". That is what I was referring to. Although in many parts of Romania, the people have lots of rights, there are many parts where the people still need to come to the 21st century, especially with their ways of thinking. Perhaps if it made you feel better I could say send him to Iraq, Iran, Antarctica, pick a place...I have lived in other places and know and appreciate the freedoms I have. Although the Patriot Act still needs some fine tuning, it's a start. I don't know about you, but personally I don't ever want to see 9/11 happen again...EVER and if that means giving up a few liberties...then I'm all for it.

 

"A court order prohibiting a Marion County father and his ex-wife from exposing their son to "non-mainstream religious beliefs" is likely to be reversed, legal experts said Thursday."

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/arti...=73209485334032

[Entropy]

Also...regarding Romania...grab the current issue of National Geographic (my personal favorite magazine and a HUGE wealth of knowledge about the world) and read "Song of the Csangos".  That is what I was referring to.  Although in many parts of Romania, the people have lots of rights, there are many parts where the people still need to come to the 21st century, especially with their ways of thinking.

 

Actually, in Romania there is far more freedom than in the US.

For once, if you criticize the government, no one will call you unpatriotic, or traitor. If you post something like that about forsaking the military, people will just ignore you, rather than going to great lenghts on how much you suck.

Also, in Romania (and other parts of Europe) people are far more liberal than in the US, which is a good thing. For example, sex and nudity are not really big issues, like in the US. And you can see boobs on the TV and no one thinks it's a big deal.

And if we are talking about the 21 century and people living in misery and stuff, let's take an introspective look to... say, various areas from Washington DC?

[KillerQween]

I have heard of that, in a lot of European countries nudity/sex on tv is commonplace. That is probably one part of American life I wish was more like Europe . There are parts of America living in misery, but I was more referring to the rights. All Americans (at least by law) have the same rights. I don't wanna list countries, because I may forget one, but the caste system is still widely used in many countries. I'm glad we don't have that here...

 

Anyhoo if I knew of a magical pill to fix the world...I would. But until then we have to work the best we know how to fix it. Sometimes people will make mistakes, but I guess that's how you learn.

[Mireille]

I have heard of that, in a lot of European countries nudity/sex on tv is commonplace.  That is probably one part of American life I wish was more like Europe .  There are parts of America living in misery, but I was more referring to the rights.  All Americans (at least by law) have the same rights.

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Same in Europe. And just like in Europe, people who have more money have more rights. That's how it is everywhere in the world.

[giannis]

Also, in Romania (and other parts of Europe) people are far more liberal than in the US, which is a good thing. For example, sex and nudity are not really big issues, like in the US. And you can see boobs on the TV and no one thinks it's a big deal.

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Don't forghet that In Europe you can pee in the Street and not worryabout getting a 300$ fine (as long as you are descrete) because some jerk didn't want you to Urinate at the same tree his dog does every afternoon.

 

I dont know about you but peeing is a big part of my life (my body has an entire system devoted just to that) and I can't consider a a country where Dogs have more rights than humans trully liberal.

[Entropy]

LOL

In Europe it depends on the country. In Romania you might get a fine if a cop sees you peeing on the street, but in the US you might also be sent to jail and be labeled as a sex offender on counts of "indecent exposure".

[Tanyia]

[minirant]Since when do humans have the capacity to form a perfect government? Every nation has some imperfections capaple of being pointed out in nasty ways. [/minirant]

Edited May 30, 2005 by Tanyia

[Entropy]

Exactly

So let's not criticize someone's else country, especially if we have no idea about it

I can criticize the US because I live in the US. I also can criticize Romania because I lived there for 23 years (and I am a Romanian citizen, afterall).

[Arnieman]

Don't forget the ape process. I wonder if it is still forbidden to teach Darwin's theory of evolution in some states.

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funny that you mention that. Actually, the law in some states forbids teaching anything BUT evolution in school. And for a Creationist, that is a bit unsettling that I have to be told that what I believe is a "fantasy", and what "Almighty Science" hasn't even proved yet is the cold hard truth.

 

As for governing, 2 things:

1.) How can you judge the entire US government by one state judge's ruling? That'd be like me judging the entire EU because somebody in Germany passed some stupid rule. (Using Germany as an example, not any prejudice of my own. In that case, I would've used France )

2.) "If men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary." -James Madison

Also,

"Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except all those others that have been tried." -Winston Churchill

[Placid]

LOL

In Europe it depends on the country. In Romania you might get a fine if a cop sees you peeing on the street, but in the US you might also be sent to jail and be labeled as a sex offender on counts of "indecent exposure".

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I had a friend who was arrested here in the UK for public urination while we were buying a Kebab (after a quick drink).

 

The thing is, these are more 'Moral' laws than anything thats truly enforced.

I think it's called common sense?

[Entropy]

Was he sent to jail?

[Placid]

Was he sent to jail?

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Heh no another one on the pile for him (caution) but he was publicly humiliated by the female officer.

 

I can't imagine that actually happening - someone sent to jail for urinating...

[Creepin_Death]

I pretty sick of hearing how the rest of the world is better than the US. Why do we have so many people immigrating to the US then. Don't get me wrong I have nothing against it. My fiance is from Nigeria by way of the UK and France. I know she loved the UK and I'm sure Europe has some great places to live. However if these countries are so great why don't you people who complain live there. Why come the this so called semi fascist county I call my home. I would not want to live in Nazi Germany. As a matter of fact my family came to the USA to avoid the Nazi party's extreme views. No the US is not perfect but no country is. However most people move to a better place if they have a choice. Having said that we have more people immigrating to the US than leaving both legally and illegally. How can this be is we are such a bad place to live.

 

Please note this in no way flames any other nation. I do not Flame anyone elses homeland I only try to stand up for mine. I love the USA. Born and raised here but I have been abroad and keep up on affairs outside the US . I am not impressed with any other nation enough to make me leave this one (no matter what job or house would await me there) as so many people must be impressed with the US since they come here daily.

 

Sorry to go off topic Daxon but this anti Americanism that has been spreading the last few years really bothers me.

 

As for Mr. Crook I agree he is a traitor and deserves to be shot...However the very thing that keeps the US Free is what will save him. I don't like his ideas but I believe he should be able to express them because freedom of expression needs to be protected unless he steeps over board with his extremist actions. What if the US really became fascist? How would we prevent this unless people could express their views in the way this idiot is now. I would love to see an crazy extremists shot this guy but I think his freedom of speech has to be respected. BTW this is coming from a conservative and not a left winged liberal.

 

As far as the Judge forbidding wicca. Yes I agree he should be disrobed. He has no place and it is obvious he doesn't even know what wicca is. He still has a image of the wicked witch of the west teaching witchcraft to kids While in fact the Wiccan religion is nothing at all like what he perceives. Plus Like I said he has no legal right to put his moral values on this family unless it puts someone in danger. This will get appealed and overturned though. That is what is so great about this country. We have checks and balances to correct injustices....Even the liberal press has its place because it has brought our attention to this wrong doing.

Edited June 1, 2005 by Creepin_Death

[Daxon]

I'm moreso at the moderators who couldn't keep it a clean thread. Oo It went from Michael Crook to peeing in the street.

[Placid]

I'm moreso at the moderators who couldn't keep it a clean thread.  Oo  It went from Michael Crook to peeing in the street.

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I was simply replying to an example of stupid rules, something which came about from the main discussion.

 

Seems you don't really have a hold on what we were actually discussing (ok, the Sigmund Freud bit is pointless).

 

Don't go mod-bashing please, there are a lot of threads and we can't dedicate all our time to this one thread, im afraid

[Daxon]

You'll know if I'm mod bashing Placid.

[Mireille]

I pretty sick of hearing how the rest of the world is better than the US.

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You see, the problem is that other nations don't go around the world telling it they are the best, have everything that's best and that everyone should love them or else. That's bound to cause criticism, don't you think?

[Creepin_Death]

You see, the problem is that other nations don't go around the world telling it they are the best, have everything that's best and that everyone should love them or else. That's bound to cause criticism, don't you think?

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Oh but they do. they do I constantly hear how wonderful France, Germany and the UK are I am not saying they are not but I hear it all the time in the media. Its natural to be think you have the best country I think. Nothing wrong with it.

[Mireille]

Oh but they do. they do   I constantly hear how wonderful France, Germany and the UK are   I am not saying they are not but I hear it all the time in the media. Its natural to be think you have the best country I think. Nothing wrong with it.

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France, Germany and the UK are dwarves which have already realised their time as superpowers is long gone, but from time to time they forget about it and say stupid things in public, as if they had anything creative to say (like Chirac). And the US is a superpower and is likely to remain one. The other difference is those three countries don't bomb the smeg out of other nations for disagreeing with them. Not anymore.