ssjgohan Report post Posted February 23, 2005 what problems with harvesting stuff? ig to 130HP and i don't have any troubles with it and god i LOVE getting walls on head it is my favorite harvesting event lol and i don't want to make it worse for fighters shivar i was planning on doing some fighting after my alch training anyway Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Placid Report post Posted February 23, 2005 Elise hasnt trained much lately and i think she wants it to stop other training to over take her. Am I that transparent? I don't want to stop other people training, I don't even PK. I don't need low levels to die, I suck enough at PKing to die at high lvls too. I just want fighting monsters to be fun. I might even start playing again if this happened. I do understand why high level fighters and PKers might not like if all spawns were random, but I think this game should be fun. It should not cater only to the needs and wants of power gamers. That is completely right. Your playing an open source game thats in development. How can this game get better if nothing changes? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Leeloo Report post Posted February 23, 2005 What does one have to do with the other? Besides, fighters already have an advantage. Look all Non-fighters wanna make it wors for the fighters -_o cuz they already have problems with Harvesting stuff etc.. No, all us non-powergamers, who get bored from harvesting wolves/gargs/ogres want it to be random spawns, so that fighting aspect of the game would be more interesting. We will get higher levels from searching for monsters and killing them for a few hours than we will from harvesting three wolves, getting bored and going outside. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scarr Report post Posted February 23, 2005 (edited) then why dont you walk from spawn to spawn? :-/ Add more spawns, make DELAy in respawn and just walk spawn to spawn Edited February 23, 2005 by Satan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeone3000 Report post Posted February 23, 2005 (edited) Take two steps. Shoot gun. Take two steps other way. Shoot gun. Repeat. Still boring. I do goblins. They're hard to find already. I try to camp the Naralik spawns, but can't get them all. I know there are more than 2 and probably less than 5, but I can't count them. If there are more, great! If they spawn randomly, great! Everyone note that the White Stone gargoyle was noted as a specific example of a monster that will stay as a static spawn. Newbies at raven will have the same chance to die as they always have, a pretty good one at night. That's why you get MM or become a fighter. Fighters do have an advantage. I can get a s2e from a gobbie in less time than it would take me to get the ingredients for one. They drop gold in-between their drops of the potions that keep me going and the weapons/armor I use. Maybe I'm just lucky, but I would think that fighting better monsters would give even better drops. I'm all for this. No argument over spawns. Edited February 23, 2005 by freeone3000 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
feverdog Report post Posted February 23, 2005 hmmm...my comment.. i say u just make the areas bigger and the spawns a bit more spread out...it stops the afk fighting a bit more...even now...sometimes i get fed up finding something that got away from its normal spot..but having to look over an entire map to find something no waY! i would get so bored i would quit looking period. only way i would fight is if i saw something on the way to something else training would take forever 2 but if you do....you would need TONS more spawns.. but my vote...is just for bigger areas the map would be TOOOO big to search over think of it...dp..walking across those logs over and over again Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Daxon Report post Posted February 23, 2005 (edited) I think randomizing everything but the highest monsters is a stupid idea, it creates an imbalance between high and low level players. I also think having to search for fluffy is a good thing. Besides, don't forget that teh g0dess said that the number of monsters would be increased. I don't think you quite get the wide-span of some maps. Right now, if I was to wipe all monsters from WS and summon 10 pumas anywhere in that map, how easily could you find one? We won't even get 10 fluffies, and in small maps where most of a player's early training is (diamond mines, perhaps?), they'd have dozens of gargoyles to run through. They'd get more in "sleep" hours anyway. Having to hunt gargs and fluffies are very spread out, difficulty-wise. The fixed spawns is one of the things that makes this more of a mouse training program than a game. There's nothing interesting in hunting anything, because you know where they are going to be. Imagine if hunters IRL just could go to their favorite place, aim and wait for the animals to appear where they're aiming. Bang, 10 seconds, bang, 10 seconds, bang... Hunting IRL has a game limit to it, while hunting ingame doesn't. It's seven bucks allowed a season in Arkansas. How many ogres are you allowed? One buck is well worth the wait, so they wouldn't be allowed to just "bangbang" (rofl, funny) away. Two irrelevant things in terms of rules and regulations. The only way this massive-spreading out would work is where it's made like other games -- you get experience based on a kill, not round of experience. If it was made that way, I'm positive the argument towards it would plummet. Edited February 23, 2005 by Daxon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AuricRal Report post Posted February 23, 2005 how about faster spawns as well? with that and also more spawns that should cut down hunting time to probably how long it takes now... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The_Piper Report post Posted February 24, 2005 Why i voted yes is the idea ive got after reading this whole thread. Think about having random spawns, yes, even on huge maps like the whitestone one, a lot of more creatures, and these creatures, if they meet, will form herds. So you can go, explore a map, really go hunting, and if you have found a herd, go and kick creatures. That would be more exciting than simply looting a spawn. Piper Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nidan Report post Posted February 24, 2005 herds? EEk! imagine running into a herd of fluffies. You trained your ass off to be able to kill 1 and then you run into 5 that all start attacking you The fixed spawns is one of the things that makes this more of a mouse training program than a game. There's nothing interesting in hunting anything, because you know where they are going to be. Imagine if hunters IRL just could go to their favorite place, aim and wait for the animals to appear where they're aiming. Bang, 10 seconds, bang, 10 seconds, bang... sounds like fishing to me then again thats very boring too imo What's wrong with people training with each other? Lower levels can do that too. It may be somewhat harder to catch up with the current high levels (though that too remains to be seen), but if that's the case, it's also probably harder to keep leveling up and keep your advantage. I think this is a good idea, that should have been implemented in february 2002, but better now than never. Well... the problem with PvP training is that it usually takes place in a PK map Low levels generally have some troubles staying alive on them Yes it would have been good if it was implemented right after the crash, but not now, unless Roja would accidentally trip over the powersupply of the server causing a crash, just in time to see her dog eat up the backup tapes... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nissarin Report post Posted February 24, 2005 Currently I'm 'harvesting' large gargs to get exp but sometimes I hunt trolls or ogres with my friend - it could be really exciting, if you inplement random spawns it could be even more fun but only if you limit spawns to certain areas (I'm trying to avoid fluffies but it can be hard if some fluffy appear next to you). So I voted for bigger spawn ares also I'm not oposite to random spawn points but only if they will be limited to certain area and maybe monsters should spawn faster. BTW: someone (maybe Roja maybe Ent - don't remember ) said that all monsters will stop attacking after reaching some lvl a/d like low lvl monsters do - for now it's simplest way to stop afk fighting. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ryuu Report post Posted February 24, 2005 All the people that are voting yes are non fighters! And why? Because "fighting" is so booooooooring, it's not fighting, it's harvesting wolves/gargs/whatever. I've seen people AFK harvesting ogres, so obviously even the fighters don't see the fun in it. Having high levels is fun because you get to kill stuff that isn't as predictable - i.e. players - but getting them is as boring as harvesting was before the autoharvester. Chasing is more boring, and frustrating <_< Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Derin Report post Posted February 24, 2005 This is a tough one i think, I would only vote yes, if there will be a lot more animals/monsters spawning in a given map. But then come the question; What is a lot? Example: In Vermor Castle there are 2 ogres, one in the secret room and one in the library. The one in the secret room is confined in a small area, thus like designed for afk-fighting. The one in the library, actually is somewhat random already. So if those were to be random and a lot more. Would ppl ever go to the secret room? Will there be 4,5,6 or more ogres in VC? The same could go for Carmien Manor (CM), what is more and what is random? Will it be 5 trolls, 5 ogres, 2 fluffies, 4 male orcs and 3 female orcs spawning all over the place? This is a game and any comparisons to RL hunting is just rediculous. Hunting in real life is so completely different; you don't level up on the animals, you don't even improve your skills on the animals. You hunt for totally different reasons. So I'm undecided, but leaning towards 'no' However the idea would be fun to try on the test server. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Roja Report post Posted February 24, 2005 Chasing is more boring, and frustrating <_< Sounds like you guys'd be thrilled if we implement static creature spawns...the creature spawns, and it doesn't move at all Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lopy_Do Report post Posted February 24, 2005 This is the stupidest thing I've ever heard of, Keep the spawns how they are, tere fine... Your going to end up screwing up a perfect game... Sounds Like Some thing SuckScape(RuneScape) Would do... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wolf_Lord Report post Posted February 24, 2005 I personaly feel it would be a wonderful addition, add a little more realism to the game. I mean you'd actualy have to go off into the wild to hunt ebul creatures instead of knowing right where they were suppose to be. NeoSeS Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Arnieman Report post Posted February 24, 2005 The fixed spawns is one of the things that makes this more of a mouse training program than a game. There's nothing interesting in hunting anything, because you know where they are going to be. Imagine if hunters IRL just could go to their favorite place, aim and wait for the animals to appear where they're aiming. Bang, 10 seconds, bang, 10 seconds, bang... Hunting IRL has a game limit to it, while hunting ingame doesn't. It's seven bucks allowed a season in Arkansas. How many ogres are you allowed? One buck is well worth the wait, so they wouldn't be allowed to just "bangbang" (rofl, funny) away. Two irrelevant things in terms of rules and regulations. Ok, rules/regulations aren't the issue, it's availability. You can't just walk into the woods, go to a given place, and just sit and bag deer all day. you may get a few to wander by, but still, if you could TRACK the animal, not just wait for it, you'd get more kills if you were good. Take away the limits we have nowadays, and a successful tracker would have more kills than a static waiter (and this was one of the skills early American settlers relied on for their very existence, in many cases). So, I can't see how a random spawn would cheapen the animal hunting experience; I think being able to camp spawns so effectively cheapens it way more. However, mapwide random spwaning makes no real sense either, as the maps cover vast terrains, and certain animals prefer to stay to their own niches. That, and the concerns of stronger monsters appearing in more newbie areas... So, I say, let's have random spawns in a large area, such that would allow an animal/monster to spawn randomly in a given area, and increase the number spawned. I have a couple other ideas I'd like to see, but I'll post them elsewhere. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SirKillAlot Report post Posted February 24, 2005 I'd be fine with it if you double the amount of spawns, and double/triple the amount of xp we get per monster/animal. That would make up for the time we lose tracking instead of waiting for the monster to spawn. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lyanna Report post Posted February 24, 2005 (edited) I actually wanted to type out a whole detailed analysis and summary, but I'm not up to it today. Just want to point out a few things: (1) More creatures to make up for random spawns --- watch out for lag issues. Where's the balancing point? Same thing will happen for any "herding instinct". (2) It would be nice to define areas where the creatures are allowed to wander/not allowed to wander. Eg. the Deer and Foxes spawn randomly all over Evergreen Forest, but CANNOT wander out of it. They stay within the forest. That should solve a lot of the grief people have with tracking issues. And it would prevent those weird reality checks where a goblin walks down the main street of Portland City untouched. (3) Most players of the pure Achiever-type personality (ie. powerplayers) would have negative reactions, because their psychological rewards come from having higher levels. Most players of the Explorer-type personality would have positive reactions because their psychological rewards come from discovering new things. Socialisers wouldn't care much, but if they did, they would probably go for static spawns, because they don't want the game to be too difficult for them (It distracts them from the more enjoyable task of gossip). Killer-type players would follow the same pattern as Achiever-type players, since in this game, Killers feed off Achiever players. This means that 3 out of the 4 types of players would probably oppose random spawns. HOWEVER, there is a way to overcome this. Namely, Achievers are interested in getting rewards for having higher levels. Killers are interested in getting rewards for having higher levels than Achievers and hence beating them silly. If the Tracking/Trapping skill system is suitably designed to make life very rewarding for players who have high levels in it, then you would convert Achievers/Killers to your side. Explorers would obviously welcome any new skill into the game, and Socialisers probably would whine and grumble, but they aren't really affected by combat/hunting as much as the Achievers/Killers are anyway. So, my recommendation would be: Implement random spawns eventually, but ONLY when a powerful/useful Tracking skill is implemented at the same time, and after you[ve dealt with the lag issues. That was the mistake we made with the harvesting changes... they were necessary and important, but the other skills were not changed to support the new function, so there was a lot of player backlash. If you want to change the face of combat training with random spawning, you have to intergrate it with a whole new combat-levelling system first, and put the whole thing down, to avoid player gripes. Or, we could just suffer through it all, and implement random spawns first, combat system later... like what's happening now with the harvesting and manu/pot/alch/craft/summon systems. -Lyn- Edited February 24, 2005 by Lyanna Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Leeloo Report post Posted February 24, 2005 I'm wondering about the people who are so fiercely against this... When playing something like UT2004, do you also spawn camp all day? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stormbringer Report post Posted February 24, 2005 I play UT2004 and i despise spawn camping. It uttererly destroys the point of the game and removes all sense of reality. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gen_Axis Report post Posted February 24, 2005 (edited) No, all us non-powergamers, who get bored from harvesting wolves/gargs/ogres want it to be random spawns, so that fighting aspect of the game would be more interesting. We will get higher levels from searching for monsters and killing them for a few hours than we will from harvesting three wolves, getting bored and going outside. Everything WAS, IS and WILL BE boring, no matter how you want to change it, if you doing it at large scale. Camping and killing is boring, but walking around and killing is boring too...also need more pointless clicking, you gaining exp slower, and you getting bored and going outside ANYWAY. People are stupid, they think: more pointless clicking (you calling it: searching) is more interesting for example for looking for spawns of ore/monsters, well, it isn't at all. This is GAME, game HAVE to be/make FUN ! And each update is less fun ! I don't get the people who want to make it more and more realistic points. If we need some realistic thing, we just turn of computer and play in real world :S At this moment this game is SLOW, making anything is SLOW already with all those DELAYS, now you trying to make 'fighting exp gaining' slower. Wath next ?! You implement 1K MS lag for everyone to make it slower, and 'more interesting' as some people used to say... And YES it is not fair in ALL skills to make em harder to get lvls, because low lvls players will never get lvls, as high, as players who got em before each UPDATE. Example. How i suppose to get Crannogs manu lvl now (nothing personally, Crannog, just example) if i need 4 times (FOUR TIMES !!) more time to create each item, that he was able to manu before update... same with pots, alch, and now fighting ?! Stop making it harder... all that bull**** about realism sucks ! Go make stuff in real world not in game if you want realism ! Make more FUN ! Edited February 24, 2005 by Gen_Axis Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brian_Huting Report post Posted February 24, 2005 i agree with gen because i dont want to spend 3 hours to make some silver bars... i have to level up at HE ... and thats the only thing thats going fast but to be honest it all is getting worse. So please roja i beg you drop this idiot idea Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scarr Report post Posted February 24, 2005 yeh how the %$# am i able to get my 70 potion level or 70 alchemy?? stop screwing skills!! fix bugs! make more spawns! make more maps! with more monsters! lol Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Placid Report post Posted February 24, 2005 My view has changed after reading Lyanna's post. I think Lyanna made some extremely valid points and i'm definately in agreement with some of the suggestions made. YES this should be implemented. YES spawn amounts should be increased. NO it shouldnt be implemented yet. YES a tracking system should be implemented to make combat (A/D) more fun. Thanks Lyanna Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
