TirunCollimdus

If is was uber hard but possible to get MI breaking spell to work and there was a summon repulsion spell both and it was not quite as hard to get to work then it would be balanced. Then the a/d players would only have to worry about the actual spell casters themselves for the most part. I would suggest that based on charm their would be a spell to break the summons repulsion spell too. It might be uber hard like MI breaking and say depend on rationality and charm both to be effective. If the attributes are keeping the super spells separated then we can avoid having anyone except the uber rich, and willing to buy anything, players at pretty fair odds against each other in PK. Leaving it at wards means that anyone can buy them even with lupine harvesting. Then you can pay noobs to run around behind you with invis potions and antidote potions using the MI wards while you kill people. That is so massively abusable it is crazy. Making it a spell means that players have to earn it unless they are uber rich and willing to support the game with ridiculous amounts of money. I full support people being able to do that since it is good for the game and uncommon that with as many places as have to PK their shouldn't be any problem avoiding those players. Ganging up on them can still kill them because of the cap too unless the bring summon armies all of the time and just keep spending massive amounts of RL dollars on the game. Better for everyone IMO since they can't be in more than one place at a time. My mage class by attributes suggestion shows the best way to do this. Tirun Just thought about asking if MI can be broken only for the person who did the breaking. That would work too.

Entropy I was just wondering. Is charm going to have any extra bonus percentage at all or just give double summons when your luck is good as usual? I know the new system as you suggested matches up pretty evenly with the old but having more reason to increase charm seems like a good idea to me. Giving extra percentage through charm would not super power the summons so I don't think it would hurt and it might help. Diversity is the spice of gaming after all. Tirun

then, like they've said in countless other posts in this thread, it makes the top a/d players stronger because they also have the top magic levels If the most important part of the formula I am suggesting is a players rationality and ethereality both then how do the top a/d players get stronger? When do any top a/d players have both high rationality and high ethereality especially when you are talking at least in the 30s or higher? To get 30 in each of those cross attributes it takes 78 pick points. If you only have your OA that is over half your pick points already without including nexus. How the hell is any A/D player going to manage that unless they are LuciferX? Maxing out p/c and human nexus for fighting takes 95 pick points. 95+78 is 173 pick points. Yes if you are 140 OA and negged out you can get that but hey what if 30 is as I suggested the minimum to have a chance and of course you are still going against your opponents magic level. That means to bust MI against a high level magic player you need at least around 37 or higher in rationality and ethereality. You just jumped up to 191 pick points. How many players have ever even seen that many pick points? This is with no nexus at all other than human btw. If you want to have a good chance to break MI against the top 25 in magic then you would need at least 42 in ethereality and rationality. You just moved to 215 pick points. Those are just starting examples but as you can see it is easy enough to make it nearly impossible for a high p/c character to reach MI break point on top level players. As I have pointed out before you cannot base any develop decision based one what RL rich people can do with their money by buying equipment or pick points. You would never do anything. If you are paranoid about high a/d players being able to break MI then just put a really good chance to break MI only at max rationality and ethereality which is 227 pick points if you want to max out all 5 attributes and still have 7 human nexus. Where does an OA 140 person get an extra 87 extra pick points? How many players are ever even going to see OA 140 anyway? The top players can be as tough as they want to be by buying whatever they feel like buying. Trying to compete with them whether or not they can break MI is the same. You loose. The only way they can get beat is to be ganged up on and breaking MI is not going to save them from being killed by groups of players. I say if players can get 227 freaking pick points then more power to them. They deserve to be uber powerful. Tirun

If the spell is high level and it requires high rationality along with high etherality to have a chance of success then it should not kill PK. Having to get to level 80 magic at least and have a rationality and etherality both over 30 at least would mean the persons who could cast it successfully would be few and far between. Reduce the chance to successfullly cast it by part if the targets magic level too. It is still in game but it doesn't break PK. Tirun Fixed spelling of it as it was ot.

If the idea is to get more people summoning and making different character builds then why not use my suggestion for giving charm additional percentages too so that summoning will just simply be better than it was? It still would take over level 50 summoning to get back to the same attack level as summons have now. How many players would put charm at 48 to do that? Even if they did you suddenly have some very different builds, yes? High level summoners would still not be that much more powerful than with the suggestion as it is. An extra 48% on attack and an extra 24% on defense would make a very big difference on high level summons but if someone wants to use 88 pick points to get that benefit then let them. Different character builds means more diversity in game. I think more diversity in game means it is more interesting and more enjoyable so we would not only have a better game but more players too. Tirun

I think an outside program that you can run every six months would be great. This is very important but IMO you just can't wind up with enough buddies that you can't remember ever week or two. Six months is plenty of time for someone to be identified as needing to be off your buddy list once you see their name. I don't know how hard it would be to code the outside program for this or how hard it would be to let players use it. I do know that almost everyone in game would be using it at some point in time. People would also not have to worry about adding new people to their buddy list. A lot of new players want you to add them to your buddy list when you help them out even one time. I try to never do this because of the buddy list issue in this thread. It would be great if we could stop being afraid to use the buddy list. I myself am going to start using the note pad to keep track of new buddies who might not need to stay on my buddy list. It might be inconvenient but until this needed fix is implemented I don't have much choice. Tirun

It takes pick points to raise stats and only the recently returned LuciferX, to my knowlege, can afford to max out every attribute. The restoration spell is linked to rationality and I am guessing some of the other spells are linked to attributes too but since no one is sharing the formulas here is my idea. Heal uses a formula base on will. Remote heal uses a formula based on reasoning. Restoration uses a formula based on rationality. Heal summons uses a formula based on vitality. A new heal spell that gives full health or is in some way better than restoration uses etherality. * This could be done for life drain if it is considered a heal spell. Poison uses a will based formula. Life Drain uses a reasoning based formula. Harm uses a rationality based formula. Smite Summons uses a vitality based formula. Mana Drain uses an etherality based formula. Disclaimer: The below paragraph can be discussed elsewhere since it does not actually pertain to my idea directly. If you want to add in a spell for breaking magic immunity a complex formula based on rationality and etherality could make it a very difficult spell to use effectively for anyone but mages. This would IMO still of course depend on the removal of magic attack multicombat on all maps ability. Obviously it would take a huge amount of pick points to make this spell effective and so the persons capable would be rare indeed. Having magic only be multicombat on multi maps would make this spell very similar to current multifighting methods. Yes it is faster using magic than multiple players attacking but if you put a very small cooldown on some offensive spells that could be mitigated too. Back on topic. What this would do is make it so that fighters with enough pick points can pick and choose which spells to beef up but they won't be able to do them all. It will not affect their current fighting abilities since there is no change to restoration. Only those attacking with magic predominantly would see a change. This system would leave mages little opportunity for emu pick points so they would either need EMU pets, that will eventually come, or they will have to sacrifice spell power here and there and/or neg up just like fighters do to be uber. Later spells if any could be mixed and matched or just put in with similar spells on the different formulas already available. Everyone knowing at least which attributes/cross attributes they needed even without knowing formulas would still allow strategic decision making. As with the whole game, yes I know, IRL rich people can buy this and buy that and be oh so much more uber than everyone else. They support the game and Entropy isn't going to take away their advantage just to make everyone who doesn't like it happy. I simply ignore what players with money can do since they pay for the game and are spending money they worked to get just like they have to work to get gold coins. Tirun PS if something this in depth has been done before I apologize for repeating the spam but I have seen this kind of thing mentioned but no specifics so I posted.

It Would, top fighters have 4x/48/40+/20+/X/20+ as i said earlier, mango was using a 40/48/44/16/4/40, so yes, fighters do tend to use vita, i use it myself and plan to increase when reasoning hit 24-32 (still need to test it ) You should consider that for mage class you would need pp - but for pp you need OA - what is easiest way for OA ? train A/D => therefore, people with most pp will be fighters. They could do a fighter/mage whereas a mage could only be a mage. If the game is based on PP distribution, fighters will always be advantaged as they are thoses who have the highest oa. edit typo I agree that it is easier for fighters than for anyone else in game to get experience points. The per hit/dodge system makes that completely unavoidable. Fighters use to skills for fighting attack and defense which has magic added for healing. Everything else is just one skill trained at a time. You don't get magic experience for summoning and you don't get per health point and per damage point experience from magic. I really don't see this changing. I also want to point out that the highest rationality you mention above is 30. Scalable improvements would mean that there would be a huge difference between 30 rationality and 48 as well as any suggested increases such as a 56 cap. That of course is just rationality. Your general top fighter has only 68 points put into the three attributes in question and the 'mage' would have at least 98 points if not more. Eventually the mage would have 122 or more points in those attributes which is something you would never see in a fighter. I believe someone told me once that the highest OA person in game isn't a PKer. Is that right? The point is that if you make the benefits scalable so that everyone can use magic but only dedicated mages can be truly powerful with it by devoting enough pick points then with almost all players the system works. Especially if you increase the cap to 56. There just won't be enough pick points to go around to be a top fighter and a top mage unless you buy your way into it and I already pointed out that trying to wear the kind of straight jacket isn't going to work. Even Mango has only 88 points in those three attributes. He also however has a total of 168 pick points showing. That makes him a fighter mage and it also means he has either massively negged out or bought a whole LOT of pick points or both so he falls under the category of you can stop people from buying as many pick points as they want and doing anything they want in the game. Talk to Entropy about it. Tirun

I was thinking the same thing. "If somethings not broken, don't try and fix it." You can own people with magic now, why bother changing it to do exactly the same? But fuck up some other stuff along the way? I wish non-PKers/Fighters would leave the Fighting/PK Suggestions to the PKers/Fighters. kkthanksbye. There are so many things in EL that have changed I won't even try to list all of them. There did not use to be anything that needed an object in your inventory that disappears to harvest it. When attributes were limited to 15 points they didn't even matter let alone cross attributes. Guess what. EL changes. It gets better and more complex not less. EL changes to give players more choices not less or the same ones. Just to make sure we all agree you can check this link http://www.eternal-lands.com/forum/index.p...t=0&start=0 and see that Entropy himself was the first person to suggest linking magic to a specific attribute and not a cross attribute. Plain and simple 'We never did it that way before.", is always a bad reason to make any decision any where, any time. Your point is completely invalid so you can both try reading again and making suggestions if you like. Tirun Korrode's quote is why things do get better. People who see something that isn't broken but could be better are the ones who give us all of the things that we enjoy so much. PS The less we discuss ideas on the forums the more often we will get things like MI breaking wards that no one likes. Saying "I don't like it.", just does not help anyone.

I missed this when it was first posted but was looking for something else and found it. She was going clockwise when I first looked and then I blinked and she was going counterclockwise. The other tests I have taken all say that I use both sides of my brain pretty equally so this seems accurate too. Tirun

I haven't added up all of the pick points available by negative perks but where do a LOT of fighters get an extra 100 pick points? I don't see a LOT of players being OA 140 or more in game. Too many resets and simply very hard to do. If someone can get 100 extra pick points more power to them. I can see that they could get 50 extra pick points pretty easy but that is only half of what you need to make a strong fighter who is also a strong mage. Yes 50 extra pick points could let you choose to have certain types of spells maxed out but then you are still looking at someone with 140 OA and 50 extra pick points. I really don't see that many players having the money or the time to get 240 pick points. I know it can be done and probably has before the cap but now I think it is harder to do it than before the cap. It is more a lot more expensive anyway. I cannot see raising the cap to more than 60. I think anything higher would as Korrode said be back to the same. I really don't think it would need raising to more than 56 if at all. 60 would definitely guarantee that mages and fighters would be different but I think 8 extra points in three attributes would do it too. You would have phys and coord as well to raise 8 more points and that would be a total of 40 more points to max all of the attributes. As to Korrode's concern that one or a few players could become power mages and powerful fighters well that is going to be the way it is no matter what. Fighters can be powerful mages, powerful rangers, and powerful summoners too if they just spend enough money. Worrying about those players warps the hell out of anything good you try to do for the game. You cannot plan game design around players being able to buy pick points. You have to truncate every single option and eliminate every kind of diversity in creating characters if you want to force everyone to be completely equal. You just cannot build EL in a straight jacket because pick points are buyable. We have to make it so that players who work hard and can afford to buy some pick points can have options. People who can buy a hundred pick points have other things they can buy to give them just as much advantage too. JSoC etc.... Tirun Edited because posting before 4 am while worrying about RL stuff makes for bad math. Raising the cap just 4 points means 20 more points since it would mean 4 more points in all 5 stats to max them.

Thanks for the real information on summons Entropy. It is really nice when we get to know how things actually do work in game. The way things are giving a penalty to players under 50 summoning is okay by me but I think that penalty should be able to be compensated for by the charm cross attribute. Giving charm just the same bonus as levels have right now(in your suggestion) seems like a great way to give more incentive for players to use their pick points on it. That would minimize the penalty for under level 50 players if they chose to use the points in charm. Yes it would make summons even tougher when the player gets high enough with high enough charm but then shouldn't players who use their pick points for charm get something they can depend on for their choice? The double summons is great but it isn't exactly something you can depend on and has a lot to do with luck which could lead to not seeing a double summons very often too. If you are really trying to get diversity and strategy as important parts of EL then something has to be done to give people a reason to participate in them. Asking people to disadvantage themselves for the purpose of exploring other character styles than the standard ones obviously does not work. Yes there are players in game who choose not to min/max their attributes for role play purposes and a few others who are not really interested in strategy and character builds but most players I think are here for the challenge. IMO most of EL's committed players want to use the best strategies available and so their has to be a reason to use attributes before people will do it. Ranging, the change in magic and the attribute cap have helped but we need more to really diversify. Give people the opportunity to make summoning a viable alternative to actual melee fighting and we can really see a new and fresh mix in game. My suggestion for mage class by attributes is based on this same reasoning. Tirun

If charm was given bonus percentages similar to but higher than the ones for level then you could bring the summons back up to the same levels they were at before the reduction this idea offers. The additional bonus percentages from charm could at maximum(with 48 charm) give a summons that had 200% attack as the current summons do but also with the defense added in this idea. The defense could max out at the creatures natural defense level or 50% higher than that depending on how much Entropy wanted to reward summoners who went all out for the 48 charm. Great suggestion Wizzy. This would make the suggestion perfect IMO. Tirun

I completely agree with Korrode and so does Entropy. He states in his blog if not in the forum that he wants a game that requires strategy so that it will be different than all of the other games out there. EL has been intentionally made more complex year after year. Even food was made into a strategic resource by adding cooldown to it. Cooldown's only purpose in the game is to make it more complex, more challenging and to add a greater reward for players who think, plan and research strategies for new and better ways to do things. EL being a challenge is what keeps people here no matter how many changes come and no matter how much harder the game gets. We love the challenge that we kind find in any other game. I believe Entropy being on the side of complexity and strategy invalidates your argument Wizzy. My idea is complex by intention. The more complex the game is the more options there are for the players. Diversity is the spice of gaming as I said in another thread earlier today. The more different ways there are to build characters the more interesting the game becomes. ) Tirun

So what are your comparisons to fighting summoned giants on the real server? Are the test giants much weaker? Are they still strong enough that someone would take the weaker giants for the pay off they get around 85 and higher summoning? I can't imagine the defense being much help below that level if it helps even then. I think if some comparisons are made doing the same summons on both servers we could see if the payoff in the end at 100 summoning would even be worth trying for at all. Tirun

Using a scaling improvement with higher attributes would mean that players who have more points to put in the attributes I suggested would be much stronger than fighters who could not afford to put in as many. Fighters are putting pick points in stuff other than phys and coord because of the cap but they still put so many into phys and coord that they cannot afford to put pick points into will, reasoning and vitality. Taking 5 stats to 48 is 240 pick points and even if you are LuciferX I just don't think that is going to happen. Fighters can put points into raising rationality or raising etherality but not both if they are going to PK. 24 rationality and 24 etherality is 60 pick points and that only gets you do half the max. Someone with 24 phys and 24 coord does not stand much chance against someone with 48 phys and 48 coord most of the time. It would be the same with rationality and etherality. You could put perception into the equation too and spread out the pick point usage even more but then I don't think your 'mage' could ever get the pick points they need either. lol If having twice as much rationality and etherality had just as much effect as someone having twice as much phys and coord as someone else it would make it next to impossible for fighters to match up magically. Fighters would still need phys and coord and you are adding not just two more stats to boost but three in order to get the benefits of being a strong mage. Having uber high phys, coord, rationality and etherality just is not possible under the current system. The fighters have to loose the magical edge somewhere to keep fighting. Tirun

Okay. Didn't know it was 200% already. That means that lower than level 100 and the summons have to make up for what they are missing on attack with the new defense. Seems like you will have to get very high before the defense is going to cover the missing attack power. This is just giving people with 100 summoning normal attack power plus defense too. I really fail how to see that is going to motivate any large number of players to start summoning. It just isn't worth it since summons die so fast already. My idea for reducing the damage rate and changing it so that the summons start out at 150% of their normal attack values is really the only way I see to make this change motivate anyone to start summoning. Well, you could change the defense bonus to 1% per level just like the attack and that might work too. I agree with Tempest about it not being able to motivate people to summon the way it is suggested. Giving the same att and def bonus would lead to the summons getting back to the kind of power that they had when they started out at 200% normal attack a lot faster. Removing some of the damage based on summon level would bring the summons back up to where they were and give them a little edge too. If the idea is put into the game as suggested it simply benefits players who already have massively high summon levels. It wouldn't benefit the skill as a whole because it would be even harder to level summoning with such a low defense bonus and such a huge att penalty compared to the norm. This is a great idea if it benefits all summoners instead of just the uber high ones. IMO as it is written there will be even fewer players summoning though there will be some who work harder at it for PK reasons. Tirun

What I read is that the summons have the normal attack for the monster summoned which is exactly the same as it has always been, right? I also read that the defense is zero which is still no change. Then added to these status quo stats you get a bonus 1% for attack levels per summoner level and 1% bonus for defense levels per 2 summoner levels. No matter what you do you are adding to the normal base summons stats right? Did I read this wrong? Sounds to me like no matter what your level the summons are going to be stronger than they were before the change. Tirun My summoning is zero but if current summons attack at 150% of normal value then at summon level 50 you are back to where the standard summon attack was at plus a bunch of extra defense you didn't have. At level 100 you are at 200% attack and a massively higher defense than zero. That is so much stronger than a normal summons they don't even compare. I don't know which is right this or the above but either way summons are stronger. They get defense plus raised attack values. This is a great idea.

First you have to realize that you cannot compare diamonds to any of the other items you harvested. All harvestables have their own event rate and IIRC diamonds are only second to titanium in harvest event rating. The only luck to consider here is the great luck you had during your first round of diamond harvesting. Astrology did not have anything to do with this at all. Skeptic works fine but diamonds can have tons of events just like titanium. No time frame involved just that the lack of events previously finally caught up to you. Tirun

Obviously Entropy took the time to make sure his own suggestion would be well balanced for the game in cost and effect. I think it is a waste of time to try coming up with different formulas for giving att/def to the summons. Let's forget about trying to min/max the formula and just get it into game. I don't see anything wrong with Entropy's formula considering what he will and won't change as already stated in this thread. IMO our time is better spent just getting behind this idea and getting it in game or suggesting different ways it could be changed that are not about the formula. I think this idea is great but I really think that improving the att/def of summons should be done in conjunction with reducing the automatic damage they take every round. 1 less point of damage per 10 levels of summoning with a max based on the creature summoned so that it doesn't wind up giving the summons health instead of them loosing it. The higher level summons already have enriched essences as ings so if we are going to make them worth summoning with this new idea then why not really go all the way? Having to constantly heal summons that took you an enriched essence to make in the first place is a pretty rough deal IMO. This would not apply to anything summoned by stones. Add this to Entropy's idea and summoning would really be worth doing in and out of PK. A whole lot more stuff would go out of game as people leveled summoning and there would be a lot more people putting pick points into raising charm. Diversity is the spice of gaming. Tirun

I think that the lower levels being weaker is a good idea. That gives you incentive to up your charm and get double creatures to be a strong lower level summoner. As was pointed out the rats is a bad example. As it is you can't really kill something that is the same creature because summons have zero defense. I don't that should change. Entropy's idea actually gives you a better chance of killing the same thing you are summoning because you have some defense instead of none. The way Entropy suggested it seems to be the best solution I have seen so far in the thread. Changing what players auto attack would be great but has nothing to do with this topic. Changing what AI attacks, as Entropy stated, makes killing high level creatures easier. If you want to summon a small army of stuff to kill the dragon without getting hit at least it will cost you a ton of ings. I think the dragons should be able to hit multiple creatures at once if they are low enough level i.e. rats, bunnies, etc. so that you have to summon something higher if you want to use that method to kill them. This is a great idea as suggested by Entropy with no changes needed IMO. The bonus for att and def makes summons better than they are now and with a high charm getting double creatures would be just awesome. I think it would be VERY cool to see a high level summoner killing gargoyles with rabbits. Bring it in as it is. I am going to level my summoning after I reset so this would be great incentive for me to work even harder at getting ings before I reset. Tirun

I think changing magic immunity's duration and giving a chance to break it based on rationality are something that should be done together. As I stated though the returns on the abilities to break and use the spell should increase more as rationality goes up so that you can't get 24 rationality and make a real difference. Only higher level players should be able to affect the spell especially when it is cast by someone with a high magic level. This means mages would have to be as high in magic as fighters are in a/d with high enough attributes to really start pawning people. Taking 48 rationality is not something every fighter is going to be able to do. If anyone thinks this is too easy as well then add vitality into the formula but only half as important. Then you have to balance out taking phys for emu and vitality for more mana and greater power in your spells. If you max out w/r/v and put the rest into phys for some emu then you deserve to be strong with your magic. No coord and no instinct combined with low phys makes training a/d very hard if not impossible after certain levels and you would get pawned in a melee fight. Using rationality plus vitality will make it impossible to be a power house mage and a power house fighter unless you have enough money to buy enough pick points to max out nearly all your attributes. Players who can afford to do this are powerhouses no matter what happens anyway. I think making it so you cannot be mulitied by magic in non-multi maps would be a huge start in the right direction. That would reduce the ability to abuse the new magic system and still allow single mages the ability to try to do PK with magic. You can set the formulas where strong melee fighters will not be your strongest fighters with magic too without totally stripping the fighters of their current strengths. Conavar already pointed this out previously about multi on single combat maps. I agree with Tempest and all of the other experienced PKers in saying that changing MI only be it with wards or just the spell itself is a bad idea for PK. I don't have to be an experienced PKer to see that and no one else should have to be one to see it either. Tirun

But if it knackers PK then no bricks cus players wont PK Good point there Conavar. I didn't think it out far enough. Right you are though. Hopefully one way or the other the wards will be replaced by character development and it will be a lot more expensive for anyone who wants to break through MI. The money for buying rationality would be a lot better for Entropy to start with so I think he should go with my idea. lol Tirun

Okay sue me for being 5 rationality points off. ) What I see though is that everyone is saying 30 nexus is enough to keep fighters from being able to use it. Even if most PKers had 24 rationality then that leaves you 24 more rationality above them. To get to 48 rationality it takes 48 more pick points. How is that going to be easier for fighters to do than 30 nexus? The higher the rationality the greater the return instead of a level gain to spell power and you make it take more pick points than everyone else is suggesting so far. This would also avoid completely screwing over the PKers who would still need to cast spells too. You don't need to add a new nexus just change the power level progression to favor the higher rationality. My point was still valid. Yes there are PKers who have 48/48 w/r already but they did have to sacrifice other attributes to get it. Whether you change magic, add a new nexus or not people with money can buy pick points and get a massive advantage by maxing out all attributes. Making mages require maxed attributes to be powerful is exactly the way it is for fighters. Max attributes is what makes you the most powerful. That is why the cap was introduced in the first place so that there would actually be a need for some kind of strategy. The new ward for breaking through MI is guess what? A cheaper investment than my suggestion of making it based on rationality. You buy the ward and use it but how many wards are you going to have to buy to match the 48 pick points to go from 24 rationality to 48? Great money sink for Entropy but makes it even easier for money players to use their money to get an advantage. If everyone trying to kill this idea had actually read the thread and realized Entropy wanted to do something about MI instead of just blasting LeoI then perhaps my type of suggestion would have won out. Things IMO would have been better for it. Good luck to the PKers when the wards come in. The wards are going to be cheap enough for people to buy and use them so there is no chance the cost will compare to getting that extra 24 points in rationality. I hope this post will get the PKers to convince Entropy to change his mind. Considering how many more bricks it will make for him though I am going to wish them luck on that one too. Tirun

Haven't had a chance to read every post but if you put a magic breach spell in then what about giving it a percentage chance to work based solely on rationality? 1 or 2 percent per point of rationality depending on how effective you want it to be. Whether anyone likes it or not EL combat is based on pick points. Highest levels of a/d at 4 for every attribute will get pawned all of the time every day. Give people a choice to build mages by making stuff available at very high rationality and ethereal totals. PKers do not have high rationality. Even if they get a little reasoning and a little will it isn't going to be anything above 10 total for rationality and there is a lot of room above that under the cap to make a difference with magic. Tirun Yes making pick points do more means money players get more powerful. If they support the game then let them get more powerful. You can take out the pick point buying to stop it or just get over it. Using nexus instead of attributes works the same way. It is all about the pick points no matter what you do. People will buy them no matter what you do unless Entropy takes out the NPC. This game is about pick points plain and simple. Find players that you can afford to compete with and let the money people fight it out at the top. No other choice.