teotwawki

Well, I do think they need revamping, as currently everything is only a/d centered. I really feel that this needs to change to make EL a real role-playing game. Gear requirements are just a no-go I think. People should wear gear because it helps them stay alive, or otherwise help them, not because of a dress code. If they can kill mobs naked, what would be the problem? Even more so for a mage, as there is NO item that enhances their powers (ok, a few items that give you some more mana, but that's hardly significant) and if they get attacked it's either diss or die, no matter what armor they are wearing. I agree that xp reward system needs to be changed, as it certainly encourages doing little. Totally pro a per hit (not per kill) enhanced xp, 2x may be enough for fighters, probably 3x for magic and ranging (harm is hardly the spell you would train on, due to its price, same with pk arrows). That would make people try to fight as much as possible, as well as reward everybody with xp according to their skill (seen quite a few times people leaving the invance before the ent just to NOT get the a/d xp).

Well, originally voted yes as I have reached the limit of developing my magic. What D43DLY proposes sounds much better, being able to develop your char according to what you really like, not having to invest pps in something that you only partially use. However, I see little chance of something that revolutionary being implemented, my last rage quit was over the discussion to revamp magic several years ago, that led to close to nothing. So I vote for D34DLY's proposal, but until there's at least discussion about this, I'll stick to my "at least let me improve my magic" yes vote.

I am far from maxing out on all skills and levels, but today or tomorrow I'll max in the thing that interest me (48 rationality). Further advancing my magic would be solely from lvling up, and honestly it's not really worth it without more rat to back it up. Invested a lot to get here (max rat, 53 magic) but honestly not worth spending months and months online for little if any improvement from here on, and still not able to make a living without fighting or harving.

Great ideas, when can we have them tested?

Is this about pk or instances, or about the things we do everyday, like go hunting monsters and harvest and defend ourselves? If PK and A/D instance tanking is all there is to it, maybe I'm in the wrong place, I would very much like to think that there are other things and other paths... Don't know about you, but there are a good many people that can kill me one hit, not two hits, and that doesn't bother me. This should be about everybody, not about mufo or luci or others that are very powerful now and probably always will be. Should be about giving new players more reasons to come and average-level players a reason to stay. If it's about who of the high level players gets hurt or helped most, I'm out of the discussion, don't have the required A/D for it probably...

Wow, lots of very good ideas but so many that it's getting hard to follow. Most people seem in favor of a change to the mages, so I would say put Entropy's suggestion or something like it on the test server and we will give it a try, otherwise there's no end to the (theoretical) debate. Start with something simple, then we can add to that, try too much and chances are it will never be implemented or it will be a disaster (too many unforeseen effects). Just my opinion...

Wow, superb... can we start it now? I would only add to that that mages (and rangers) should be allowed in instances/invances based on their magic level (60 magic or 40 ranging would count as 120 a/d for example, since mage/range exp is so much harder to get). Thank you for paying attention to us, poor non-fighters, non-mixers!

Not quite true - otherwise why would there be quite a few "mages" out there doing exactly this (using harm on mobs, healing fighters etc) in invances and even some instances I've been to? (edit: typos etc.) Well, if the discussion is about adding some new inst(v)ance toy for very high level players, then maybe I should get out of it. I'm not as old and experienced, but really haven seen or heard of anybody using magic for every day hunting and really don't see it as a practical option. I have tried it and, in some limited cases (LD on PWs; poison on Achims) it might hardly work, but cerainly not for general every-day use. That is what I would like to see most, magic being a practical career choice, not something to be financed by farming or harvesting. So please, whatever the way of change, make magic closer to financing itself, same like you can get money for equipment&healing from melee and even some extra.

I personally don't like the idea of being able to switch careers just by changing sword with staff and so on. If you want to train a/d you can do it even with reaction/dexterity halved, though certainly on lesser mobs or with some difficulty, which is exactly as should be. The "no human nexus" is nice and would probably help in separating the classes. Whatever the decision, please, please, make sure that you can walk around and hunt mobs as a mage (and make a bit of a profit out of it), same like fighters do, otherwise it's back to "let's train melee so we can farm ogres" and be a mage in weekends. I would very much like to be able to take my essies (or my bow for that matter) and go around and hunt and make a living with the profession of choice, rather than harving all week to get money for a day of arrows. And make it soon, can't wait to get on with it!

Wow, great idea... i would add to it that rather than halving p/c, halve the reaction/dexterity directly... I'm all for it (and make the perk worth it!)

I would love to see a practicable mage career for PvE mainly. Not really possible now, not enough offensive power (!) for top-level mobs (drags and probably also the higher, only tested up to drags). Also not possible because instances and invances require only A/D to get into (why? can't a ranger range or a mage spell? ). It makes me very sad that you can't do without melee as it stands now... it's a pity, no more subtlety in class or build choice, the only option is get first toughness or first reaction maxed. Even a mage that can only heal (meaningfully) would be attractive to me, as long as he's allowed in the higher instances without being a fighter first... Don't mean that you should have power without training and spending pps, but I think you should have the option of a build with token pps in phys/coord (for a bit of emu) and no melee ablities. A build that can go all the way eventually, I mean, hunting dragons and getting into the higher instances, otherwise there's no point to it. And please don't make it GC-only like the AP potions, too easy for old players to get it and too hard for middle-aged ones. If it's really a separate career, should be PP based (a lot of PPs, so that a top fighter can't have this too; and powerful enough to make it worth it giving up the melee for good). Just my two cents, sorry if I offended anyone, certainly didn't mean to!