Burn

This is going to come as a complete and utter shock to you, so I'm going to have to ask you to make sure you don't stand up before you finish reading this, for your own safety. Not everything involves training, especially when it comes to non-fighting skills. There I said it. I know you "there's other skills?" fighters find such stuff shocking, so I hope you didn't do a spit-take on your monitor or something. While EL is still beta (forever and ever amen), it's been around long enough that you expect some things to stay relatively stable. Ingredient changes should only be made in an item's early stages, when deemed necessary to tweak the item or its value. Completely changing the ingredients just because you wanna get rid of some feathers that have nothing to do with the potion itself just shows, well, you're not a potter. Possibly not even a mixer. Compare it to you stocking up on HEs, only on the next server update Restore requires LEs instead. Poor planning on your part? It may not look the same to you as an obvious non-potter, but it is.

Exactly. Keep these pots the same, Radu's idea of a possible ranging potion (fear of how much it'll cost suddenly hits) sounds like a better idea.

Don't use me as an excuse to de-rail the topic with your pathetic attempts at insults. "Not sure"... Just writing those two words should have set off a loud clanging alarm in your head to stop typing. This is your second attempt to de-rail a thread using me as the excuse. Get it through that skull of yours, stay on topic. Bait doesn't work on me.

Selling Harvables for the GC - I did a comparison of some of the most commonly sold harvables (both to NPC and to other players), which (at my EMU at the time) also gives an approximate gc per hour including the time needed to walk to the NPC/storage. Too many greedy "I want it now"-types for this to work, despite that hiked ing prices only ends up hurting them in the end. "GC now" is more important to them than "GC over time", though the "GC now" is just going to end up making them spend more GC in the end than they'll ever make "now".

Actually, Radu mentioned on chan6 when discussing an NPC for removing perks, that skeptic *might* be removable there, but at a much higher cost than other perks. So there's a possibility that skeptic won't be as "forever" as it currently appears. As for this, honestly don't see it workable. There's MANY people who have no positive perks (myself included) and never want them, PP's better spent elsewhere. The only appeal this has is to those whom Khalai said, have anti/hellspawn for the PP's, this would be a way to have those PP's without any repurcussion. Positive perks (esp. now that TINF is apparently useless according to them) aren't really desired by those. (Edit to emphasize "might", don't wanna start rumors that it's definitely happening or something.)

Won't come close to happening. There's quite a few people who are perkless now (or after reset) with no intention of ever taking any perks who'd grab this as a huge amount of relatively free pp's. Hell, a stone or two and I'd be on it. Too easy, and all those fighters for example with anti- and such would no longer be anti, with more pp's to boot with no negative effects.

Got an EFE yesterday also.

I was in augs with iron shield all the way up to ogres (and I guess technically armed orcs though I never trained on them). Ogres were aug pants with steel chain and steel shield. Switched to steel plate (early on steel set with tit chain for a top) for the clops, and tit set now that I have NMT and am close to switching to fluffies. Cyclops tears through augs like mad, thus the switch there. Pre-ogres, which is what's more important for the purpose of the thread, there's really no reason to wear anything above an aug set. Spending enough time leveling manu so you can make your own as you go along helps a lot of course. But to each their own, if they wanna risk high-level gear kicking wolves and the like, it's their business. I'll snicker at them a bit, but they can't hear me.

I don't mind so much the scale aspect... High-level pot stuff at this point is primarily extracts->refvegmix/MoP(->creature food) which takes quite a long time to gather ings for just to make a handful. A couple high-level pots where it's buy scale -> mix -> sell would be a nice change of pace from that, hehe. Even if not done regularly.

Agreed, this is a bit too much. But something/anything for rangers would be nice. Even a medallion that is on par with other medallions for missle accuracy, which I believe is already suggested so I guess that's off-topic...

If noone buys the potions, those of us who can make them stop making them, and the scales will continue to pile up anyway. Excepting the few that get used to make pots that end up going unused in storage unsellable, not a big diff, hehe. I like the idea, I'd love to see them work out, from a potter perspective. I'm sure the regular a/d-ers would find use for them as well. Just saying they're going to need to be tweaked, a bit more value for gc. Not enough that everybody and their grandmother can do it, as I know they're not intended to be for everyone-all-the-time, but at this point not even the "big spenders" are willing to pay for them. Even if the tweak meant I'd end up selling already-made ones for less. I'll take that hit, heh. (Edit note: Written as the last few posts were made, so a late response)

Well, as the first to attempt selling the attack pots on market... I'm not anymore. I got 22 left sitting in storage that I'm not even bothering to advertise anymore. And don't really want to because of the hassle that was yesterday. The problem: I spent the entire day fielding "uh, what does it do?" questions due to no real documentation. Upon being nice and explaining it to them, the normal response was "That's it? For that much?" and wasted time as there was no way they were gonna buy any at that price for so little result. It was in all an incredibly frustrating experience and I'm out a load of gc because of it on top of that. Even had random people PMing me saying "You'll never sell them for that much" with no intention to buy, as if I needed to hear that from yet another person. Just PMing that solely because they saw me post ads for them. These are not going to sell. Granted, I managed to offload 14 of them, but only to two players and I'm pretty certain they just wanted to try them, I don't expect repeat buyers out of either. There's no market at all for them at 700gc each, and it's impossible to sell them for less (as explained by Ermabwed above, I fully agree with his cost statements). As it is, the attack pots I've made will gather dust in storage. The defense book is still being read, but I won't make any unless changes are made so they're actually sellable in at least minimal amounts. They're prohibitively expensive and even used to their full advantage don't provide anywhere near enough to justify the cost. I love seeing new ideas for pots for higher-levels (us "vegetal 6ers") or new uses for current high-level stuff (creature food, god quests) but this pot needs tweaking badly.

It's gone quite well so far. I make them for myself, and sell other items instead. And I'm not the only one who refuses to sell them below ing value. I'm not the only alcher who refuses to let alchemy go the way of manu in prices. Those who want to buy at 8 are quite free to go make them themselves, noone's stopping them.

Just commenting in general, not at you specifically. True, but still very hard to sell because the market is normally pretty saturated with them. Mmmm, all merc goes towards DEs, while SEs get bought from NPC here as well. I quote 10 for selling them because, well, same reason as FPs, basically paying for doing the runs to buy them (antisocials). Never sell them here either, at least not since I stopped running an alch shop (which sold for 10gce). I take every opportunity to... "encourage" people to refuse to sell for anything less than 10gc though.

MagE are the tree shrooms of alchemy, overdone for leveling with low usage. Consider it lucky if you sell for 7. Same time, NPC buys for 6.67 so selling for less not an option. Spirit ess 9 bought from NPC, 10 from players. Matter is the crap sale of alch... sell the ings for 9.5, or make the ess and sell for 8? Nope. 10gc to sell, anyone selling for less is... "economically challenged".

GOT ONE! - Thread no longer of any use.

That's not "learning the hard way", that's allowing some people who are dumber than the AI for ogres to take advantage of people who go there thinking it's just another location to train ogres. There's absolutely no indication whatsoever that it's anything but that. What's the lesson learned? That there's PKers out there who lack any form of common sense or honor? We know that already. That's a given. There are people who play this game who have no interest in the incredible amount of stupidity that surrounds PK, would prefer to stick to fighting the more intelligent AI-creatures. To have a place PK that's not indicated as such should never be permitted.

Top Lenny Slayers perhaps? Would love to see something for various mixing skills along similar lines, tried to think of some similar, but... mixing doesn't really have things that can be the equivalent of combat level, drops, invasions/instances which makes it difficult. Only option I can think of for mixing skills is... well, the top 50 lists as they are, heh. I have to wonder... won't Monster Slayers turn out to be about the same as the top 50 a/d-ers (even though it doesn't include pk/pvp)?

Gotta say I'd be against this. Personally, I worked hard to get my pot level up to be able to make creature food with minimal chance of ing loss. When I click that button I expect 60 foods to appear, and no less. Ditto Speed Hax pots, I expect 12 and no less. Having a set number allows for easier project planning (harving all the ings with reserves for loss to make X amount of creature food). Better to harv extra, to mix extra, than "hope for the best" and not know how many you're gonna get.

Honestly there's several recommendable distros out there. For a brand-new-to-Linux user, OpenSUSE is quite simple to install, keep updated, and as well has a huge selection of repositories to get programs you need/want. Keeps it pretty simple for the starter user, but there's plenty for the more advanced user (or one trying to learn more advanced things) as well. And yes, the most important thing, there are RPMs for Eternal Lands (including sound) available. I've tested quite a few distros, and when it comes to simplicity for a starting Linux user, I recommend OpenSUSE as it has taken many steps to be as simple as possible, while leaving options for more advanced usage as well. (This is not a fanboy message, other distros being recommended could probably easily be used as well. The beauty of Linux is freedom, that includes freedom to choose from a wide selection of distros, hehe.)

Prices do fluctuate on the majority of items in question, but incredibly slowly and honestly not by much. Waiting months on end just to get a couple extra hundred gc at best is pointless. ---------------------------- 51-100kgc average (fluctuates heavily daily due to constantly re-investing gc made to get more exp) 6-10 average rare items. Few more at the moment but not for long. I pretty much follow my own policy for these kinda items. If it's something I can use (such as EFE), keep it. Doesn't tend to last long. If it's something I'm unsure if I'll be able to use anytime soon, keep it a while, then sell it if not. These also get sold immediately if I find myself in a desperate need for some extra gc. removal stones, EMEs, and such that I have no use at all for get sold almost immediately, or as soon as I have time to deal with selling them. But they get dumped pretty quick. Rostos are the exception, keeping a decent stock as I find myself donating bricks more frequently... Even still never have more than 5. Nothing of a rare nature gets kept for long that I have no current or possibly-soon use for. Definitely not a hoarder. Not sure hoarding is a bad thing, gotta believe people have an actual reason for stocking such items if they do. "It looks pretty in storage" makes no sense.

Thanks for all the emmies, they helped get me... well check my sig GoodDay2Die - 10k rose quartz (20k)

Every mix skill has those items which aren't necessarily worth making yourself. Spirit essences for alch for example, 9gc at NPC makes it cost-efficient to buy those instead for most. FPs are best bought, in my experience, since I want to save meats for summoning. As such, I came to a different option for getting them: (1) Make BRs. Simpler ings, give more exp, and even if you buy all ings + food you end up with a profit when you... (2) Sell them to NPC. (1 emu weight makes this a simple task.) (3) Use profit to buy FPs. Still get potting experience, get more of it actually, get a profit, and easily afford an FP stock in the process. At the only added cost of having to make a few trips to the pot seller (Irsis the better option). Just one example of ways to get around the FP issue if you're really wanting to keep your raw meat for other uses and still get potting experience.

Port Anitora last night, as Mortos invited some cute little bunnies to the party

Related thread: The Bars, the Bars..., Do you do the high-level (tin+, excepting hydro) bars? Response from that indicates most only do copper/tin/bronze for their own use, and rarely at that.