MasterXan

9/11 most likely had little to do with Iraq. The excuse was the terrorists were hiding there, but I don't really buy into that. They could have been/are hiding where ever they want, especially in the Middle East (I have nothing against the Mid East, just their governments tend to look the other way when opponents of US get involved). In my opinion, we shouldn't be killing anyone over there, terrorist, civilian, or otherwise. That is what they make chemicals for; make a big chem bomb that puts everybody to sleep, which would all but eliminate accidental deaths and still allow soldiers to search the area to capture whoever it is the stupid guys want today. As for our being there and setting up a government, it shouldn't happen. Free them, let them pick the government. Still, I don't think anybody (even Hitler) should die in such a painful way as that guy. Lowers the executioner to that guy's level of evil.

Me thinks you read into the love analogy a bit deeper than I intended. And there are many who would argue about whether you could test such a thing (saying after you stop following His commandments, you go through life and at some point notice it isn't as good as it once was... I have no experiance with this, so I don't know about it) If you think about the chances of being delt one specific hand (as you said, 8 X 10^67), then take that number by itself , say, 100 times, you would have the odds of a simple series of mutations of occuring, which series would likely have to occur for some fictitious organ to work properly in its completed form. That's (8 X 10^67)^100. very unlikely, yet somehow most organisms on earth all ended up with similar characteristics. Which means you'd have to multiply that number by the number of organisms with close characteristics (say every species of ant, or monkey, or mammal), of course subtracting those that had those same characteristics before they became different (if all dolphins had eyes before there were multiple species, then obviously all will have eyes after further mutation, unless the mutation is to not have eyes). It's a very, very large number. And it all happened by accident, over not such a long time (granted, billions of years, but comparitively not very long). I would think we would have many more different varieties of organs, senses, and numbers of appendiges. Not just eyes across almost every complex organism on the planet. I do believe in a physical reality, what I meant was we choose to believe only in that reality or also in a spiritual one. I mentioned the underworld thing because you said we either follow God or get damnation for eternity. This is not so. To get damnation forever, we must be in Outer Darkness. The three kingdoms are drastically different from anybodies version of 'damnation'. The point isn't so much for God to know what we will/will not do. He knows. The point is for us to be happy. (big description coming...) If you don't like following all the laws, say you just see no point in not sharing everything, which means you steal a lot. Then after you die, do you want to go somewhere with all the people you stole from? Always knowing they were better than you, always around people who seem, to you, as stuck up snobs? That's why you're not going to the very top of Heaven. You will go where ever your lifestyle is shared by others, so you feel comfurtable and at ease. If God, knowing all, simply said "you'll like it here", then we would be angry with Him for sending us to a lower place than we thought we wanted. By taking away our memories of Him, we get to see how we really are, and then God puts us in the place we'll be most happy in. As for hiding, He doesn't hide. If He did, we wouldn't be having this discussion because He wouldn't in any way influence anything here. I try and make it a point in my life to allow others to believe whatever they will, while at the same time showing what I know to be true. But I can't unlearn what I've learned, I know it to be fact. You decide whether it is, or whether to believe me when I say that I know it is fact, just as you either believe the world is round because other people say so, or else you become an astranaut and find out for yourself. I highly recommend you don't take my word for any of this, but instead read the BoM and pray about it if you want to know. (I realize I sound arrogent when I say I know, but I really do know. And if you don't believe as I do, then I'm not going to come after you or think you are worse than me. I know what's happening when I die, now I have to catch up with the rest of you and learn how to add, subtract, and multiply-- five things I never could do very well)

This is gonna be a long one, hold on folks! I described how Satan came to be Satan, as is the belief of Mormons and is stated in the Book of Mormon (BoM, again). For proof of most of what I believe, look to the BoM. Prove it's right, you prove Mormons are right. Prove it's half right, and you get half of Mormon beliefs proven. This Pink Unicorn written by generations of herders... does it have a history of their people? The Bible and BoM are histories, meaning that the spiritual teachings in them gain credibility when you find out the history behind them actually happened. Most of the Bible has been proven to be at least based on real events, if not accurate depictions. The BoM, having fewer people studying it and since it was only discovered about 160 years ago, is not as proven scientifically. But there is no proof in either which proves it wasn't real. Any book would have to have the same attributes. (course, they would have to be written by prophets of God, and just who is and is not a prophet is highly disputed...) I really don't believe Darwin's theory could have happened on its own. I realize that adaptions would have simply happened without a specific goal, such as eyes, in mind. I also realize that adaptions without survival meaning are worthless, so would not have neccessarily been passed on to future generations. I see the complexity of life, it's many different forms which scientists don't understand, and in it all I can't imagine it being random. While it is statistically possible for a monkey to get 100% on the ACT, I don't think it will ever happen. It's also statistically possible for a whale to mutate and grow feathers, which may help it become faster by negating the need for blubber, but again I can't see it happening. If I know a fact, it doesn't mean it's objectively verifiable. When dealing with feelings, nothing is objectively verifiable. I relate it to knowing if you love somebody... you think about if you do, wonder if it's possible, and at some point you just know whether you do or do not love him/her. When you gain a testimony, it's a bit more dramatic and sudden, but similar in that you will never be able to prove to somebody else, because you learned it through a feeling. The feeling of the Holy Ghost, which is sometimes described as "a burning in the bosom", is how you gain a testimony. You have to experiance it to know what I'm talking about. Your right, a god who put some puppets somewhere and if they did evil then banished them, that would be cruel. So you are a puppet? I'm a puppet? We are more then puppets. We are told what to do and when to do it, the test is whether we do it. If God were to test our loyalty to him, how else would he do it? He would have to remove our previous memories, for anyone who where living with God would obviously believe He exists, would know His power, and would likely follow Him. We get to decide whether we believe in the physical reality or the spiritual. Now the destruction underworld thing. YOU WILL NEVER GO TO THE UNDERWORLD. It isn't possible. There are four places you could go; Heaven, i.e. Celestial Kingdom, where God lives; Terestial Kingdom, where those who were good but didn't follow God go, and the Telestial Kingdom, where murderers, thieves, rapists, etc. go. The forth is Outer Darkness, where Satan and those banished from the pre-existance are. In the BoM it says that there are about five people in the history of mankind on Earth that will go there. Because we chose to follow God's plan and come to Earth, we are almost guarenteed eternal life in a Kingdom. To go to Outer Darkness, you must have talked with God while on Earth, face to face as Moses did, and then you must rebel against him. If you were to talk with God, my guess is you wouldn't try and ruin him. In addition, there is another chance to follow God-- known as the Spirit World, it's were everyone goes after death to await the second coming. You get a chance there to repent and follow Christ. Those alive during the second coming get the millenium to repent and follow Christ. (We are told repentance in this fashon is harder, due to our lack of a body at that point. That is why we should be good now.)

Satan himself wasn't created by humans. I'm not sure where he got the name 'Satan', but Lucifer was created by God, as we all were. He (Lucifer) didn't want man to have free agency, so God sent Christ to Earth to represent Him instead of Lucifer, which made Lucifer mad... big war... 1/3rd the people God created were banished with Lucifer... Lucifer never got a physical body... Adam and Eve were placed on Earth, etc etc. Well, killing and eating every third child is surely disgusting, but only offensive in my mind if the (fictitious) group actually plans to carry it out. Well, ok, so even thinks about carrying it out. Ok ok, so it's just generally offensive... As for the 'knowing' thing, I do know. I'm one of four Mormons in my school, so not even close to everybody around me believes as I do. I was taught this way, but have since gained my own testimony. Yeah, that's hard to explain, how you get a testimony. Suffice it to say, there is no doubt in my mind. I have questioned my beliefs before with rational thought and always found them to be correct. There are two ways to get 'proof'. One, die and find out. In the event that isn't very appealing, then gain a testimony. Since that tends to be a long and involved process, try some minor hints that won't prove, but will suggest some kind of God and such to exist. First, I find it unlikely that under Darwin's theory sensory organs and complex tissues could have ever developed. The number of mutations necessary to evolve a working circulatory system or a brain would number in the millions, and until all of them have happened it wouldn't help the creature survive any better. As for Mormon beliefs, several top notch linguists have studied the Book of Mormon and found it couldn't have been written by Joseph Smith alone, too many different writing styles. Historians once believed Europeans brought the horse to the Americas, but the BoM mentions horses. Recently, new findings (a horse in a tar pit predating the Spanish by over a century --can't remember the exact years, sorry-- a child's doll closely resembling a horse, etc) have proven horses were, at some point, here before Europeans and somehow wiped out. There are other such scientific proofs, but none of them will completely prove the BoM, Mormon beliefs, or any other religion, to be true. Otherwise, we would all know and this wouldn't be a test, but more like a study period. (wow, this got REALLY long, didn't it?)

You guys are way off. Satan shouldn't be offensive to Christians, who are taught to love your enemy. Satan wasn't the most powerful angel, Christ was (Christ did overcome Satan and all his minions when on earth, sounds like he was more powerful to me. In addition, Satan, then Lucifer, lost the war in the pre-existance, proving he wasn't as powerful) Ent (and other people) you can't lump all Christians into the same group. Not all believe the same things. The are "Christians" because they beliefe in Christ, not because they all believe the same things. I know you can't be saved no matter what you do as long as you believe in Christ. As a Mormon, I know that you have to repent truely of your sins, and only Christ can tell who is truely repentant and who isn't, so don't try and judge. Killerlamb, you are the worst person to talk with about religion because you just insult everybody you can. I will ignore all your comments. No religion, no matter how different or "wrong" we might see it as being, should be deemed offensive. Although, the actions of many individual people and the teachings of some religions end up injuring/hurting/killing people, and those people/groups of people should be respected as people, but watched closely to insure they don't hurt/kill others. Satan became evil before humans had been created. He was not jealous of us. He is now, because we have physical bodies and he doesn't, which is one reason why he tries to bring us down. This has gotten really off topic, hasn't it?

Alright, here is a place to discuss the failings of Windows XP. To get things rolling, I'll tell you what I KNOW TO BE TRUE about Win XP. I want responses to ONLY CONTAIN WHAT YOU KNOW, NOT WHAT YOU'VE HEARD ABOUT XP. Ok, the first thing: It's the most expensive operating system to date. (if there is one more expensive, please tell me, but I haven't seen it yet) Next: in order to use it, you have to register. Those who don't register within 24 hours of installing find their computer shuts down and won't load up. Once you have registered, changing any major part in you computer requires you to re-register. Otherwise, your computer shuts down and won't load up. This was intended to be a way to curve the increasing rate of piracy, but since anybody can copy XP onto a computer and simply say they got a new computer, the system doesn't work at all. End result: you have to ask Microsoft for permission to upgrade your computer, and piracy is just as bad so the next Windows will be just as expensive. Windows XP doesn't run DOS programs. Ok, some do work, and others you can get working with a lot of work, but XP will never run every DOS game I have wanted it to. I guess this isn't a failure for XP, since ME doesn't do well with DOS either, but XP is by far worse than any other Windows version. XP ships out with almost every computer you buy these days, making it hard to avoid for those who want to do so. Since XP is getting more and more users, virtually all viruses are written to work with XP or specifically for XP. This puts you at even more risk than ever before. Win XP likes to do things behind the user's back. Many programs operate in the background, sucking the juice out of your computer games. Some of these are hard to stop from running when you don't want them to. In addition, many functions are hidden, harder to access, more difficult to use, or simply nonexistant. Like the control panel, system files, and other things. These two things (background programs and hiding every thing that could potentially ruin your computer) were intended to prevent the ignorant or stupid computer user from damaging anything, but because there is no way to turn this 'off' and allow for easier access, it gets very old for those of us who can use Windows well and want to change it's settings on a day-to-day basis. When I say this I'm refering to the professional version, which is immensely better in this regard than the home version, but still worse than any other Windows before. (although I must admit, for the target audience of normal people who don't change their settings, it is good. It's the small and vocal minority that suffer here) Did you read the Windows user agreement carefully? By signing it you are giving permission for Microsoft to gather information about your computer. They agree to not get sensitive information (email addresses, passwords, credit card numbers, etc), and instead only get system settings "to better serve you". However, any Microsoft employee with half a brain and the right job description could legally go through your computer looking for things. If he found something interesting, he could go against Microsoft's agreement and steal it. Your firewall wouldn't be able to do anything because you installed the program he's using to access your computer, and unless a detailed investigation happened, nobody would know because it requires limited hacking ability and the employee was expected to have access anyway. Anybody else have any information/comments they'd like to share?

When I said it doesn't load up, I meant it wouldn't load up correctly. If I recall, it loads up enough to allow you to register and not much else. As for the ads, get Ada-ware from lavasoft.de The simple scan method is free, and it gets rid of almost all installed ad programs... if you pay for the pro version, you get a Ad-watch, which prevents said programs from running. I've never tested it with XP's own particular brand of ads, but it should work. Also, try a google search on browsers and see about any free ones...

Looking for suggestions for our website. www.aloofhosting.com/n00bwarriors/ Please posr your votes for the backgrounds. Those that don't vote can't complain. Also need a good guild description from Sim and a group picture of the founding members (the first ten). A list of those members in the order they joined would be greatly appreciated. When should everybody log on for the picture?

For what it's worth, I agree with Thalos. Most of the heavy metal bands give me headaches or scare my nose hairs into hiding with bad lyrics. Some do both. Few do neither.

Might I mention that anyone with any brains should NOT be using XP? With the exception of Windows ME, XP has the most problems (Me has fewer problems actually, they just weren't intended problems, XP was purposfully meant to be difficult to use under certain circumstances) I would suggest ditching XP and going with Windows 2000, which is MUCH more stable. For those that got XP before realizing how bad it is (or got stuck with it some other way) and can't upgrade to 2000 (it is expensive), I suggest getting Linux, which is cheaper and better than Win 2000 in some ways. Then partition the hard drive into two parts, one for Linux and one for the stupid XP. Use Linux whenever possible, and use the XP for whatever doesn't run on your version of Linux. For a detailed discussion on the problems of Windows XP, look at my new post in the off topic area.

Anybody here been to www.homestarrunner.com ? And anybody like my avatar?

Here are just a few small bugs I've noticed, nothing big, just annoying... First, I often can't move. When I click to move, my char simply doesn't go anywere. Usually this happens when I try and move a short distance, but sometimes it is for longer distances. Right-click doesn't work, but usually if I change the camera angle a few times it works again. This isn't limited to just moving, sometimes the game doesn't recognize my opening up a bag, or attacking, or clicking on a door to enter a house. About one out of fifty times I click to attack something, it gives me a weird error msg about how that's not allowed and it can't find a path to target, or some such. This is a bit annoying, especially when chasing bunnies. This last one involves the map... it isn't uncommon for me to look at the map and suddenly find myself in a lake. The lakes around Lakeside dock area are really bad at this one. The map simply isn't quite accurate as far as where water edges are, and where they are not.

lol, you should check out the new Strong Bad emails. some of them are really good. You know, now that I think of it, I almost never look at the rest of the website, just the Strong Bad stuff... LONG LIVE THE CHEAT!!

Killerlamb, you insult me. You insult every Christian. As I've tried to argue, and you simply ignored my statements, I'll say nothing more then that I am not anti-Sematic, that I never have been, and that I've never tried to insult/hurt a Jewish person. In fact, I'm going to prom with one. Grum, God doesn't come up to each and every one of us and say, "Look at me! See, I do exist! Watch me lift this building in the air and smash Bill Gate's car with it, then watch me undo the damage so you know I'm God." If he did that, there would be no question in people's minds. There would be no doubt, and therefore no test. It'd be like my math teacher putting the formulas and answers on the board just before a test, just to prove that it is how we are supposed to do it. Toyminator, people didn't die from religion. People died because some fanatic went against the most basic law of the world: Don't kill other humans. They may have done this in the name of religion, but in reality most religions teach against killing others. Some do, but I won't get into that. Oh, and I don't remember Stalin killing out of religion, I remember Stalin killing because people opposed his rule and the communist government of the then Soviet Union. It isn't possible to prove one religion over another through any book, any arguement, or any theory or reasoning. The only way to know it's true is provided from the source: God Himself. Or if want, from the Holy Ghost who acts with God. I can't even really describe how it feels, it's like nothing else when the Holy Ghost tells you something is true or not true. Yes, I do believe I've felt it. I believe it with all my heart. Since I've posted most every basic concept in the Mormon beliefs, and the same arguements keep coming up, I think I'll have to get out of this as well. I'll still comment on anything directed to me or Mormons, but anybody who does listen has heard enough to think about my beliefs.

Killerlamb, that was not meant to be a slam. I meant exactly what I said: some people may have put their religion as Jedi as a joke. Just like somebody probably put Brittney Spears, or Backstreet Boys, or chocolate, or whatever. If somebody said he could pick up a car, would you believe him? Or would you say, "Yeah right, lets see it." If God is to have anyone believe he is all powerful, he must keep to the promises/covanents/things he says. He must also back it up when somebody (or a group of someones) directly goes against what he says. Otherwise, everyone would loose faith in Him. The popular image of God smiting isn't true... He doesn't sit in a chair and direct lighting bolts at people because they cussed or something. But he must remove/chasten/change those who He sees as people who will lead others away. And that last post by Killerlamb I find very offensive. :x Just so he knows.

You know Cicero, some of those people may have been pulling a practical joke... but I doubt 300,000 did. Somebody must believe in the force then.

I do agree that it's based on belief. But what about the using of the force, when it's supposed to have a will? And I will always believe the force doesn't exist, but I should not have put down those who may believe in it. I apologize and retract my earlier statement (I'm going to edit my post as well).

Ah, but the force is described as 'having a will', and so to use the force would be the same as using a person. If Jedi exist, perhaps they don't use the force, the force uses them. By the same token, some may say God uses people. Course, then He wouldn't be perfect and just. Oh, btw, it's hard to use somebody for comfort, they have to give it.

Does that mean Christians 'use God'? And while I see nothing odd about having Yoda as an avatar, I can understand your point of view. I just wonder about 'using God'.

I don't think I've ever heard of a Jedi religion, per se. I know of plenty of fanatics, even people who believe it to be true, but never really worshipping the Jedi, or such. But who's to say Alderan believes that? simply a picture of Yoda only means he likes Star Wars. Now, if his siggy said something like "Follow the force and you shall have eternal life" then I'd be worried...

Again, I ask: is your avatar a person you believe to have actually lived?

Lol, sry Leeloo, but are you trying to say that our avatar picture is something we should believe to be true? Hey sam3773, do you believe that the Stargate actually exists? Leeloo, do you belive the movie from which your avatar comes from has happend somewhere in a galaxy far, far away? (sry I don't know the movie's name, but I havn't seen it, just previews)

Wow, this is gonna be another big one guys... I agree with Nidan... I'd like to learn something about non-Christian beliefs, cause I know very little about their teachings. It is impossible for people, with human mistakes and errors, to judge people. It isn't impossible for people to judge ACTIONS. In some situations, murder may be exceptable to God (self defense? defending your country? defending your family?), but often people can't figure out the exact circumstances. Also, God is better at judging actions as well. Our courts are to take people who have most likely done something wrong and keep them from hurting others again. Otherwise, everyone would murder/steal/etc. and all of God's other laws would be harder to keep (you'd have to kill just to survive) Alright, next. I remember Christ's one of disciples being told they would never die. I think it was Peter, but don't quote me on that, it may have been a different one. If he couldn't die, he would still be around somewhere and thus the second coming WOULD happen in one of the disciples' lifetimes. Also, the second coming hasn't happened yet, so if you believe it was supposed to happen before then you don't belief the rest of Christian teachings and it is thus irrelevant. The Adam and Eve story is very, very complex. God told them not to eat of the tree of knowledge, but didn't stop them from doing so. If they had not eventually eaten, they would never have been able to bear children, and would have lived for ever. Obviously they had to eat it for the rest of the plan (previously mentioned by me) to continue. But God could not tempt others to do evil, so Lucifer had to be made to know he could do such a thing, and do it successfully. So God gave a commandment, Lucifer deceived Eve to take the fruit, and Eve got Adam to take it. Thus Adam and Eve were made mortal, could have kids, and knew good from evil. Lucifer became the devil, and he would tempt others to do evil so he would 'prove' that God's choice of Christ over himself was wrong, and so that he (the devil) would feel good about getting others to do evil. That is just scratching the basics of that story. Alright, of course evil must exist. If it didn't, then how would life test us? We would only have one choice, to do good. I'd like to give an analogy as well. Have you guys heard the story of trees on the windy side of the mountain? Forests on the windy side are sparser, the storms and harsh conditions kill many trees and cause great deformities. The side with little wind looks beautiful, has lots of trees, and is weak. The wood is worth less because it's softer, and the forest there isn't able to withstand even small storms. The windy side is strong, with deep roots and hard wood. Suffering and hardship is the best teacher for humans who are often unable or unwilling to learn otherwise. Of course God loved the Jews during the Holocaust. But again, free agency could not be denied. And while most of them were surely innocent, some may not have been. And again, it made them stronger as a people, and the survivors were often brought closer to God (or else they abandoned Him altogether). Look at previously mentioned Mark 13, this time verse 7: "And when ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars, be ye not troubled: for such things must needs be; but the end shall not be yet." and 8: "For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there shall be earthquakes in divers places, and there shall be famines and troubles: these are the beginnings of sorrows." Obviously, wars and natural disasters are meant to happen. Now, read verse 10 in the same chapter: "And the gospel must first be published among all nations." This did not happen until well after the death of all the disciples, save the one given eternal life upon this earth. Now verse 13: "And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved." Again, referance to strength through suffering, particularly for the Jews. In fact, it may very well be that the next several verses (19 and 20 especially) apply specifically to the Jews and the Holocaust, and while I'm not sure on whether they do apply specifically, they do give the reason for why a tyrant has never been able to control the world. Now, the context of verses 27 and 30 (finally). Before verse 27 we are given many signs which must happen before the second comming. Not all of them have happened. Also, note that in verse 24 it says, "But in those days, after that tribulation,...." At the time of Christ's death, that time of tribulation hadn't ended, Jerusalem hadn't been destroyed. Now, verse 30 has been linked (by Mormon prophets, so this viewpoint is entirely Mormon) to Doctrine and Covenants 45:21, where it says: "And it shall come to pass, that this generation of Jews shall not pass away until every desolation which I have told you concerning them shall come to pass." (of course, if you don't belief in the prophet Joseph Smith and/or the Doctrine and Covenants --A portion of Mormon scripture added to the Book of Mormon by latter day prophets-- then you might as well ignore this connection) Ok, now the free agency thing again. *sighs* Think very hard about this: You just had a hard math test, and you did horrible. Of course, it just happened to be a semester test so your parents will see the test grade seperate from the overall grade. You're thinking about lieing to your parents, forging your report card, or not showing them. If God, knowing you would thus lie about your grade, then decided that would be evil and we can't have that, He would get your math teacher to talk to your parents, taking the decision away from you. When you die, God would account your lieing as evil. But you never lied. You would agrue that He isn't being just, that you were thinking about it but wouldn't actually do it. How could He punish you for something He didn't let you do? He allows evil to happen because otherwise the 'evil doers' would go unpunished. In this is why life is a test. But He already knows the grade, we just have to hurry up and put our answers down. Ok, if God knows what we will do, then we could do something different and God would be wrong. NOT TRUE. God knows our thoughts, remember? He knows when we change our mind. He knows that we will change our mind about picking up that penny on the street 6 billion years before we are born. So he knows exactly what went through our minds before we do. But we don't know what He knows. He knows we will, say, go to Walla Walla Community Colledge. But we are still deciding. Just beause we eventually make the choice God knew we would make doesn't mean we didn't decide. It means God is smart and knows what we will do when confronted with a situation. In case you didn't follow that, I'll try a slightly different way of describing it: God knows what we will do. We don't know yet. We also don't know which choice God knows we will make. We must decide, and lo and behold God was right from the start, no matter how many times we almost do something else. Just because He knows what we choose doesn't mean he interfered/changed/altered the decision making process. Man, I wish I was able to do that with just one person, it would make marraige proposal much less stressful if I knew her answer before I asked. But again, she would still have to decide. God does it with everyone, all the time, and has since who knows how long. We don't know how he does it, just that he does. My guess is we can't understand how He knows what He knows, the 10-15% of our brains we actually use just isn't good enough. (yes, scientists believe the average person only uses 10-15% of their available brain power. Geniuses use around 15-20%) I hope that put things in perspective better. If that didn't convince you of the free agency issue, then nothing I'm capable of saying is... perhaps somebody else can help?

Alright, again, God/Heavenly Father gave us free agency. For him to interfere in every single evil act would be the same as taking away that free agency. He might as well let Lucifer instead of Christ represent him. The Holocaust didn't happen because of God (well, not directly). He allowed it to happen because man has freedom of choice. Those who carried it out, those who ordered it to happen, and those who didn't help when they could have will have to answer to their crimes. As to why it happened to the Jews, look in the Bible. Can't remember where, but it mentions a curse upon the Jews because of their wickedness at one time or another. The Holocaust was allowed to happen as a fullfillment of this prophecy. I'd say that after the Holocaust, treatment of the Jews improved quickly and for the most part (jokes aside) they're treated like most other religious groups. However, notice that the Holocaust wasn't allowed to be completed, that many Jews survived or escaped, that Hitler doesn't rule the world, and Nazi Germany was completely ripped apart. Notice how strong and how smart the leaders of that time period where. Coincidence that Churchill was on the scene exactly when he needed to be? What about FDR? I think those two were chosen to live then, and be in a position to stop the killing before Hitler ruled all of Europe. This choosing when people are born is only possible for God to do. Grum, God knows what we will do next. That isn't the same thing as not having a choice. It means that somehow, God can tell exactly what we are thinking, and that He knows when we are thinking about doing unpredictable things just so He can't have predicted it. We are still free to kill or not kill, its just God knows whether we will or not before we do. 5H1zZl3mYd1Zzl3, you shouldn't put down Atheists. They obviously have some reason not to believe in God, though I certainly don't know the reason. BTW, I'm not an elder cause I'm 17, I'm just preparing for my mission. lol, I remember being a deacon. fun stuff there... Bible used for brainwashing? I don't even understand that statement, much less have an answer. How is the Bible brainwashing people? You want brainwashing, go listen to Spice Girls CDs for a few days, then come back and try and say anything intelligent. The Bible is just like any book, you can put it down if you don't agree or don't want to read it. And if you read the Bible backwards it's nothing but the Bible backwards... :wink:

When you get close to the wall, run the cursor over it until it changes to a door. Left click then. If it won't let you out, then check and see if you finished everything Raven asked you to do.