Diealot

As someone who wears helms for the armor and not for the quest... don't make helm break rate different than it currently is. Just because you only wear rdholam and col doesn't mean the other helms aren't valid choices.

Why not make the character actually glow... just a little... and so that anyone can see. I don't need any more indicators on the bottom of my client.

PC/Ninja sadly do not counteract daylight (at least for a character that has good perception).

Is it a feature or a bug that ranging exp decreases as accuracy (level & perception) increases? As far as I can tell the mechanics of range exp are something like: xp given = (light factor)*(movement factor) + (Rationality bonus) Where Light factor is a combination of light of the location, light modifier of the target, perception of the shooter, level of the shooter, distance between shooter and target, missile accuracy, and any other accuracy bonuses the shooter might have (mainly perks); and is a number greater or equal to 1. Movement factor is = 1 if target is stationary and somewhere between 1.5 and 2 if the target is moving and Rationality bonus is your rationality/4. Currently, since the 'light factor' is essentially also your accuracy, at higher perception levels (or very high range levels) you receive less xp for shooting a target from the same distance but has lower perception (or significantly lower level).

DK, I use an alt to train ranging that's set up to be a 'good' ranger (meaning high perception). Because of that he cannot train outside in daylight (can't stand far enough away). There are still places he can train any time (Irsis arena), but I think it's unfortunate that eventually you can increase your ranging ability to the point of only getting minimum exp while standing a huge distance from your target. I doubt radu would consider it, but I think having a second, distance only based exp formula that gives marginally better exp when standing great distances away would be of benefit to the skill. It would encourage rangers to use better gear, and which leads to greater risk of loss, and which leads to greater need for rosto, which means more bricks disappear, which gives radu more money. Oh, and... more people wanting to level the range skill, so more money leaves the game, so he can sell more gc so people can buy more arrows... I'm not complaining that I'm not getting 100 xp per shot (I don't expect 50 either, hell 20 would be fantastic)... I'm complaining that I'm getting 8 xp per shot from max sight distance for half the day whenever I feel like using gear that doesn't suck.

A bit of classic EL: A bit of classical (ignore where is from, if you can): And a the invaders should get their music too:

@Kaddy For training purposes (i.e. stationary 'invincible' target), the ideal location to stand usually is the furthest spot that still gives 100% accuracy. If a ranger has high perception with relatively high level (or moderate perception and very high level), there is a possibility that this condition falls outside of the max view range. In other words, the ideal spot becomes as far away as possible, but should be farther away. Also, aside from training, once your perception & level are high enough, daytime shooting will almost always give the minimum amount of exp (1+rationality/4) even if you are shooting targets at maximum distance.

Radu's response below, tl/dr is 'Feature' : [PM to radu: Oh, hey.] [PM to radu: Was wondering if I could get an answer to the question I posted on the forum: ] [PM to radu: Is it a feature or a bug that ranging exp decreases as accuracy (level & perception) increases? ] [PM from radu: of course it's not a bug, wth question is that?] [PM to radu: Well... eventually, as you max perception, you end up hitting the min exp on most shots, even if your level is still quite low.] [PM from radu: so shoot from further away] [PM from radu: or at night] [PM to radu: During daylight, sometimes even max distance gives min exp.] [PM from radu: you might not realize but it's the same with a/d...] [PM to radu: Oh, I do realize that, but with a/d you can increase the difficulty of the target, with range you can only move further away...] [PM to radu: if you can't move further away to get more exp... then... I guess you're shit out of luck?] [PM from radu: shoot at night] [PM from radu: also, you get exp for successful hits only, no?] [PM to radu: So, I can a/d any time, but to get reasonable exp for range I can only shoot at night?] [PM to radu: Yes, successful hits only.] [PM from radu: so you get more sucessful hits] [PM from radu: and fewer wasted arrows] [PM to radu: And when I get 100% accuracy from max distance, and min exp... I'm sol? No more range leveling?] [PM from radu: same for everyone else] [PM to radu: Not melee fighters.] [PM to radu: Or mages, who get the same exp all the time.] [PM to radu: (as do summoners)] [PM from radu: for everyone training ranging I mean...] [PM from radu: you can also reduce your perception if you care that much] [PM to radu: would a fighter reduce their coordination?] [PM to radu: or physique, or whatever attribute they focus on?] [PM from radu: ask them?] [PM from radu: but yes] [PM from radu: some do] [PM to radu: Any chance you could put me in touch with one who does? I'd like to know their reasoning.] [PM to radu: The ones who do it to reduce CL so they can farm drops isn't the same... I'm trying to get xp, not drops.] [PM from radu: you can ask on channel 6 you know] [PM to radu: Sounded like you know some people who do that?] [PM from radu: you can ask on channel 6 you know] Welcome to channel 6. [PM from radu: and yeah, no one goes for full phy when trying to get as much a/d exp as possible] [Diealot @ 6]: HEy, would any fighter reduce one of their main attributes significantly solely in order to get more xp, at the expense of how well they fight? [Biker_Boy @ 6]: possibly diealot, but Ive never heard of it before [Kace @ 6]: i woukd not no [Diealot @ 6]: Not to get more drops, only to get more exp. [Kace @ 6]: no thats kinda dumb [Biker_Boy @ 6]: most are focused solely on drops [Kace @ 6]: wgats the point in being a fighter at that point [Kace @ 6]: *whats [PM to radu: Did you see those responses?] [PM to radu: what's the point in being a ranger if I have to reduce my perception to get xp?] [Biker_Boy @ 6]: kace they are walking about powerleveling [kalil @ 6]: well, what if you were gonna do a rea/cood build? [Biker_Boy @ 6]: not just looking for drops [Biker_Boy @ 6]: talking* [Kace @ 6]: still why be a fighter if youre hurting youre fighting ability [garbage @ 6]: build for future [Biker_Boy @ 6]: longer fight gives more xp kace [kalil @ 6]: yeah...im not a fan of that build...but, i know people do it [Biker_Boy @ 6]: fast kill is low xp [Kace @ 6]: if they are going to be a fighter be a fighter [kalil @ 6]: agreed [TaP @ 6]: kace open your mind up a bit [Biker_Boy @ 6]: no reason they cant focus on xp instead of drops kace... [kalil @ 6]: we here to kill shit and blow shit up [Biker_Boy @ 6]: maybe they have another char to supply their he/sr [TaP @ 6]: if you can get better xp and lvl faster with less coords or whatever, why not?> [Kace @ 6]: its not drops it youre fighting ability [PM from radu: you asked the wrong question] [PM to radu: Okay, you can ask the question then?] [radu @ 6]: what he means is: do all fighters go for 52 physique right away? [Kace @ 6]: why be a fighter if youre not fighting to the best you can [Diealot @ 6]: No, that's not what I mean... [radu @ 6]: and if they do, do they complain that omfg, I get less exp? [Biker_Boy @ 6]: radu is much closer to the point here [funfool @ 6]: why not just increase reasoning, you get more xp for everything you do, your spells are stronger, life just smells better with more reasoning, skunk hunts +++ [TaP @ 6]: you are [Biker_Boy @ 6]: kace doesnt seem to get it [TaP @ 6]: youre adjusting attributes to get more rounds out of a fight, to get more xp [radu @ 6]: he complains that he maximixed his perception and gets less ranging exp [Kace @ 6]: i get it im telling you i dont think its smart [Diealot @ 6]: No, I complain that at maximum perception, I only get minimum ranging xp. [Biker_Boy @ 6]: oh [radu @ 6]: yes [TaP @ 6]: your saying killing things AS FAST AS POSSIBLE make a better fighter? [Biker_Boy @ 6]: oh I see [Kace @ 6]: then why didnt you say rsnge [Biker_Boy @ 6]: unrelated to fighting [radu @ 6]: I told him that fighters also don't do that [TaP @ 6]: sorry bud, thats incorrect. a good fighter lvls his attributes as he moves up on mobs to keep it balanced [radu @ 6]: maximize all their stuff if they want exp [Kace @ 6]: thats 2 different things that i have complete different opinion on [TaP @ 6]: thats their point, not how fast to kill stuff [kalil @ 6]: i prefer to kill things pretty quick, so they dont beat the crap out of my gera [Kace @ 6]: eh i dont find that as fighting thats training [radu @ 6]: but the point is, you usually get more a/d exp with lower phy than max phy [Kace @ 6]: *trainer [Diealot @ 6]: TaP, once a ranger maxes his attributes, he can't move up on mobs... eventually he gets only minimum exp [TaP @ 6]: you didnt say range til like 20 seconds ago lol [TaP @ 6]: you said fighter mate, thats a ranger [Biker_Boy @ 6]: I think we figured that out now [TaP @ 6]: i was still speaking on it [Biker_Boy @ 6]: ok [Biker_Boy @ 6]: sorry , lost in spam [Diealot @ 6]: Look... a fighter can increase his attributes, become a better fighter, and still get reasonable xp fighting by moving to harder creatures. [TaP @ 6]: yeah i had to back scroll to re read alot of text lol [radu @ 6]: in EL, ranging is a helper skill [radu @ 6]: like magic and summoning [TaP @ 6]: truth [Diealot @ 6]: As a ranger increases his level and attributes, he gets less xp... unless he's further away from target, but eventually you cannot move back any further [radu @ 6]: you can't just train ranging and expect to be a fighter with it [Diealot @ 6]: And thus get minimum xp only. [radu @ 6]: did you maximize your rationality? [Diealot @ 6]: So I shouldn't train a skill to be a better helper to other players? [Diealot @ 6]: Or gear my character towards that skill? [radu @ 6]: you should, but don't expect to become 179 ranging [TaP @ 6]: you should, just dont expect it not to be a bit of a money sink skill gettin those lvls [TaP @ 6]: lol ^ [Biker_Boy @ 6]: is it impossible to reach max ranging? [TaP @ 6]: nothing impossible [Biker_Boy @ 6]: or just nigh-impossible? [radu @ 6]: nothing is impossible [radu @ 6]: but people shouldn't expect it [Biker_Boy @ 6]: right nigh-impossible gotcha [Diealot @ 6]: I don't expect to be 100 range really... but I would think I could still get reasonable xp off of shooting things whenver I like without having to change atts [TaP @ 6]: dont need max range to help good [TaP @ 6]: max AP tho.. you do need some work in that [Kace @ 6]: nothing impossible except lvl 180 lol [kalil @ 6]: i think finding people in this game who dont get their panties in a wad...thats impossible [radu @ 6]: also, the reason why people train ranging exp is to hit better, yes? [Biker_Boy @ 6]: thats why I do [radu @ 6]: once you can hit anything quite well, no reason to train it even more [TaP @ 6]: dude everyone is chill wym? [Diealot @ 6]: Who's mad? lol [TaP @ 6]: idk kalil said it [Biker_Boy @ 6]: *shrugs* [radu @ 6]: not all skills are equal [radu @ 6]: a/d 179 is useful [radu @ 6]: harvest 179 not so much [radu @ 6]: or alchemy 179 [Biker_Boy @ 6]: lol I'm trying to get by with minimum a/d on this cchar [kalil @ 6]: apparently radu never harvested at 90mph [Diealot @ 6]: If that's your answer, fine... I think the range skill would be better off if it weren't that way, but it's your game. [Diealot @ 6]: I think more people would level past the 60-70ish now, and sink more money into it... but *shrug* [Biker_Boy @ 6]: I dunno ranging a side skill to alchemists like me [Diealot @ 6]: I'm not expecting 100 xp/shot, that's silly. [TaP @ 6]: i think its fine, you need max AP not max range lvl [Kace @ 6]: i dont even have a char with 30 range lol [Biker_Boy @ 6]: yes max ap really helps later [TaP @ 6]: yeah [Biker_Boy @ 6]: my range is only 37 but with max ap I can do dragons with a tank [Biker_Boy @ 6]: np [Biker_Boy @ 6]: do damage [Diealot @ 6]: Getting the minimum xp on most shots just because you have high stats in skill you want to train seems obtuse to me...

Fair enough... Would better advertisement of the certain quest provide the same benefit? If completed on a magic day I think it zaps you to 21.

I do not think there should be a magic daily in the same style as the current haidir/daritha dailies (base + x*magiclevel exp). However, adding to (or creating) a daily with the same idea of Kaleb's dung (flat amount of exp, perhaps very loosely based on level like the dung daily) would be fine. Magic is a difficult skill, sure. I think there are opportunities to expand the skill that do not involve daily quests. To me, the game does not have to be 'easy' for player retention to be high. Adding some diversity to gameplay through magic would encourage lower level players to level the skill more, in my opinion. Modifying some spells to be 'magic based' (shield for instance) and have effects based on level/attributes would encourage new players to level magic more naturally than a repetitive daily quest that becomes the go-to for leveling from 0 to 178. Also modifying the availability of some spells could prove interesting; creating of a summoning-stone-like item that casts a spell with reduced amount of mana and/or lesser (or static) effect would encourage more people to 'battle mage' and give other opportunity to level the skill. There are many other options, these are just a few. Also, if a player doesn't stick around due to lack of dailies for certain skills... I guess I'm okay with that.

On essences, I agree with revi. With the exception of Spirit Essence, you can buy ings and food for less than the cost of the essence at magic shop, and mix it yourself. (a few of them you can even do quite well at making gc) An alternate method of mixing alembics without the use of rares, or letting an EFE make multiple (3-5) of them, isn't a terrible idea. Wolf bars don't need serpent stones in the mix, correct. Why is this post in general chat, not suggestions?

Por que no los dos?

C3 should be the moon.

This happens to me sometimes... usually a reboot of computer fixes it (sometimes two). I also find it's usually more better to launch the client via the server selector (fewer crashes on launch that way).

That could work, some sort of damage boost + NV effect. Or keep the light modifier reducer (far too few things reduce light modifier if you ask me) and add in a range damage boost. Or if you really want to throw rangers a bone, add an exp boost (with or without other effect). Edited OP, unbreakable > untearable... EL and it's weird distinctions (;

Essentially, when wearing a universal hood, get an additional effect based on your equipped cloak. Possibilities include but definitely are not limited to: Body piercing cloak - extra 3-5% Armor bypass chance No More Warlock - adds unbreakableness [edit] untearableness to cloak (hood breaks first instead, or both unbreakable [edit] untearable?) Unbreakable - adds unbreakableness [edit] untearableness to cloak (and hood?) Passive Camoflage - additional light modifier reduction Conjurer - chance at free summons (either mana, ings, or both) Excavator - small (1-5%) chance at extra harvested item (even those that are single harv only) Fast Regen - extra regen Mirror - add hp recovery effect (similar to SoP/MoL) Monster Magnetism - all normal monsters ignore you No more tears - additional NMT bonus (possibly make hood unbreakable [edit] untearable) Powersaving - small chance to not use food while mixing Artificer - small increase to artificer effect Warlocks - small increases in both effects Fur - bonus protection to all. Idea is to add effects, the effects do not necessarily have to be what is listed here. Also, other people have probably had this idea... edits, untearable (does not break in normal combat, e.g. current NMT cloak) not unbreakable (does not break vs brod/gsm/etc.)

Good points FT There's always no grief day (; And not all applications need to be combat related. Throwing mixers a bone isn't necessarily a bad thing. Also there's potential for 'explorer' type effects, particularly with MM/PC/Excavator (and others) that could add things outside of mixing, fighting, or fashion.

@Dragon_killer Like I said above, these are only possibilities... certainly the fightin' cloak's hood bonus could be something different (more powerful would probably help). Could add hp/mp bonus, could add a 'thorns' effect, could add bigger bonuses to existing perks (double the cloak effect maybe?). Lots of possibilities. Mostly this topic is about adding an adaptive effect to hoods based on what cloak you are wearing. What the specific bonus is (if implemented), radu can decide or solicit further ideas from the community similar to what he did for tokens here recently.

I've had interaction with what seems to be a genuinely new player, within the past week, who said they were talking to people who wanted to give them everything and wouldn't take that they (the new player) wanted to figure things out for themselves. Sure, help new players, but don't smother them with help. Part of the appeal of EL is the depth and figuring things out on your own.

@RipTide Certainly PC cloak could get a range-centric benefit, small additional ER effect would be neat (maybe 1-5%). To me the effects themselves are mostly irrelevant... Uni hoods are not cheap, and I imagine are pretty breakable, adding effects would be a neat bonus to having one, in my opinion. While not really effecting gameplay hugely.

Currently MI is enough of a PK deterrent vs. mages. Rework MI to not be 100% protection, and sure. Otherwise no, we don't need more protection from mages.

Why not? Poison is quite slow damage, low chance would make it difficult to stack (and abuse). Not sure about black though, why not green?

Comments/Thoughts: 1: First, why would a bot owner want their bot to move from one point to another? That would make it difficult for anyone wanting to buy/sell to the bot. Second, you'd be hard pressed to find many bot owners willing to move their bots to a 'pretty' location from a 'convenient' one. Currently, bot owners want their bots placed in the most convenient/high-traffic locations. That's why the majority of bots are on c1, and why there's so many south of sto in MM, in PL city, and on the walk to sto in NC. If you want to buy something from a bot, you probably are going to search price, if it costs you more to get to a bot in a far flung location who might be selling something slightly cheaper than a conveniently located bot, you might reconsider which you are buying from and opt for the closer one despite the higher cost. 2: Which teachers? The one's in the skill schools? Is double (or triple/quadruple if #day) xp not sufficient bonus? 3: Why? I have a ranger and have broken bow/crossbow before... but if you know and pay attention to what you're doing, you can use bows in pretty good confidence of not breaking. Also, the best bows are currently shop or quest rewards. I doubt radu would add those to the manu table. A better proposal (though still unlikely for addition) would be to add a new ranged weapon crafting skill, move the current arrow crafting stuff from engineering to there, and flesh it out with more projectile types and weapon types as well. Make it similar in scope to tailoring in terms of cost, so as to not remove the gold-sink aspect of the ranging skill. 4: Sorry, no. I dislike this idea a lot. This isn't the Oregon Trail. Even charging a small fee to use boats is too much, in my opinion. 5: This isn't Runescape. This would add an interesting aspect to the game, but would be a very significant change from what's currently done. 6: What do you mean continue? Who's losing progress from not making steel plates all day long? The chance for EFE when mixing FE could be adjusted so more EFE are produced, but the problem of EFE is more economics than what the rarity/availability of the actual item. 7: Many armors do have rare varieties. Certainly making enriched essences for those that do not currently have one isn't a bad idea, but they would also need an application otherwise they'd be useless. 8: Sto is a magic box. 9: Uh... why do you need to re-learn how to make a Health Essence once you've learned how to already? Big books are re-readable for exp? I don't see the point. 10: This has been asked for multiple times, maybe something can be done? 11: Payment stuff is radu's wheelhouse... I think if he wanted to do this, he'd have done it already... but that's his call.

You might not want to read the book, but the fact is that if the book is makeable, it's likely to be significantly easier (and possibly cheaper) to read your way to TF level. Having it be that way (particularly if cost effective) essentially cuts out the majority of the skill. It's similar to tailoring. Because tailor books are makeable (they have quite high AcP requirement), reading books is both easier and cheaper than making low level tailor items. So a player wanting to tailor WWH (or make books) simply needs to buy books and read them, not do any actual tailoring, until they are high enough level.

Alchemy/potion, why not? Engineering is sort of the last hold out of 'if you want the levels, you'll have to mix' type skills (alchemy sort of fits there, but it's much less avoidable than engineering unless you have a huge gc vault). Introducing more accessible (cheaper) big books for engineering would do away with that, and whether that's a good or bad thing is best decided by radu. Engineering xp speeds up once you can produce treasure finders (TF), so similarly to tailoring and white wizard hats, I'd guess people would probably read big books (if they are similarly priced to tailoring/others) until they could make those. There's currently only 20ish level 100+ engineers, the top 50ish are 80+ (high enough for TF). The top 100 is 71+ (Borderline TF) and the top 200 are 56+. More simply put, do you want to do away with most of the engineering mixes pre-TF? If so, make big book craftable. I say go for it, but I could see how others have different views (particularly on engineering).