Longsh0t

10.000 Gold Coins 1 Titanium Serpent Sword 1 Titanium Chainmail 1 ELE 1 Serpent Stone 1 Excavator Cloak 1 Conjurer Cloak And a few other items... who wouldn't want that? (since im leaving EL i don't need them anymore) These are your clues: It's on pretty a large map in the first continent. A snake near a bridge will point to its location. You are not be able to see the treasure, nor walk to it, even if you know where it is.

Now this is interesting + Teamwork + Danger + Exitement + Rare items + Exploration + Economy Too many advantages to mention them all

Nonono! That's no good. The only question i had was if it was meant to be like this, or if the devs would like making the higher level items also profitable.

Wow, this game just keeps getting better and better Great job

you obviously didn't get my point. You are right on the 0.6 gc. Fruit takes a lot longer to harvest though, so it is less profitable to do that.

I present to you: the marvelous el- economy, where high level players still harvest the lowest level flower to get cash! Seriously, was this game intentionally designed to make harvesting the lowest level flower the most profitable thing to do? What would that bush look like when this game has 2000 players? p.s. yes, harvesting those flowers is the best way to get cash, besides exotic ideas like the ones mr.mind came up with. I can make 4.200 gc per hour (compare that to making essences, swords, or fighting monsters!) @ Entropy: adjusting the monster drops was a step in the right direction, i can now buy health essences from players after a "round" of training. @others: flame away, prove me wrong

Fixing the formulas is NOT something that 1 person can do within the hour. I've suggested this many times in this thread already (and sorry for repeating), but you can't blindly make up formulas. There are a lot of factors to take into consideration. Don't get me wrong: i think changing the formulas is an essential part of fixing the economy. And it's the only tool we currently have got: <insert entropy quote here> Fixing the formulas can be done in one way only: Go through EVERY ingame item Determine how 'valuable' each item should be Assign experience, production time, NPC prices and other benefits accordingly Of course, everyone has a different opinion on how 'valuable' an item, for example a sword, should be. That is why I'm not going to make a list of all the ingame items and 'redo' them to solve different issues like massproduction and the value chain (high lvl item = more GC/exp/etc). Entropy (or other developpers) have to make that decision for us, or some sort of 'test version of the formulas' has to be made on which people can vote. But before that is going to happen, I would really like to see a reaction from them if we are thinking in the right direction.

In what time span? 1 day? a week? months? Then we should focus more on those other items and bring them in balance with the GC / hour and the level required to make the item Profit margins are worthless unless you specify the production time. A profit margin of 100k with a production time of a full year is pretty worthless. Exactly. My 2 cents: You need to concentrate your toughts on the entire system, not just the FEs. Look at the whole production chain and then start messing with all the formulas,exp,etc.

darky, you forget the most important factor of them all: time. Sulfur is heavy and the storage is not very near, thus people dont harvest it alot. The 2gc per sulfur is a result of the market system. I've looked into the formulas & production times alot, and let me tell you a funny thing that I've noticed: Spend 1 hour harvesting ANY kind of resource and you will roughly make 2.000 gc. Throughout months of producing FEs, people found that making ~2k gc harvesting sulfur is reasonable in comparison to harvesting other resources. If sulfur would be worth 0.6 gc, noone would harvest it, because that would mean that they would make less that 1.000 GC per hour. I say that EVERY other (higher level) item is undervalued

It is a good idea to change the formulas, but you have to take in to consideration a few more factors and take carefull steps to change them. In designing the new formulas, these four factors are important: Production Time Components Experience Minimum profit from NPC per hour A note on the profit from the NPC: this is to set a basic price floor. It can be removed if the drops on monsters are changed (see the long economy thread for more info). But I'm not going to discuss that here. Some guidlines to create the new formulas: Lowest level items should give the lowest minimum profit from the NPC p/h Production times should be alot higher, since we want to combat the massproduction The experience per hour should slightly increase for higher levels Try to change the components as little as possible Keeping in mind all of these things will enable you to make a very balanced economy. A few examples using these rules: Fire Essence Production time: 3 seconds Components: 1 Sulfur, 1 Red Snapdragon, 1 Red Rose Experience: 10 Minimum profit from NPC per hour: 1.200 gc* Iron Sword Production time: 180 seconds Components: 2 Fire Essence, 10 Iron Bars, 1 Steel bar Experience: 1.500 Minimum profit from NPC per hour: 1.750 gc* ---------- * You can also calculate the rough profit per item from this (combined with the basic costs it will give you the NPC buying price): FE: One can make 3600 / 3 = 1.200 FE's per hour. The profit per hour is 1.200 gc, so the profit per FE should be ~1 gc. Iron Sword One can make 3600 / 180 = 20 Swords per hour. THe profit per hour is 1.750 gc, so the profit per Iron Sword should be ~ 1.750 / 20 = 88 gc

Very good post there. That would certainly stop people from the current flee/fight/flee/fight tactics. I like this idea. One thing though: I also think the weapons do too much damage, if i use a titanium long when training the fights NEVER last longer than 20 seconds. Fair enough. You mean like you need at least 20 attack to use an iron broad sword? I think it's a good idea, but the levels need to be looked at very closely. Good ideas, should also be combined with the 'new' fighting system

I really don't think you can compare the economy of RS with EL. RS has a playerbase that is FAR greater, thus you can always find a fool to buy a certain item. A NPC with dynamic prices is a good idea though, but again: only use NPCs to set price floors. Entropy only wanted to change the formulas, price and experience and i still think that you don't need to implement complicated things like this NPC to fix the economy. Look at my previous post, I will guarantee you that if you go through ALL of the ingame items and re-evaluate their production rate, exp, price, etc we will need 5 market channels.

Wow 150+ posts in 3 days . I've seen in posts from a few people that mass production is a problem. Also, some higher level items are less wanted and less profitable to make (in terms of exp and gc). Is it posible to determine these things from scratch?: The amount people can produce per hour (given they have the components) The components needed to make the item (closely related to the profit one can make AND the amount people can produce per hour). The experience one gets per item The profit (not turnover!) one can make producing the item Just an example (to reduce massproduction & fix the economy): Iron Sword: Experience: 1.500 Time it takes to produce one: 3 minutes Profit: 50 gc (50gc on top of the cost to make a sword) Components needed: 10 Iron bars, 5 Coal, 5 Fire Essences Consequences: You can make 20 Iron swords per hour max. You can make 1.500 GC per hour max. You will gain at maximum 30.000 experience per hour. + Manufacturers have a little cash to spend on resources and other things, they don't have to harvest flowers anymore to gain their cash . + Iron swords give fair exp (im not a manufacturer, so i don't actually know howmuch 30k exp is ) + Iron bar demand will rise (if you dont get MUCH richer making Iron bars) + Coal demand will rise + Fire essence demand will rise (if you dont get MUCH richer making Fire essences) Disclaimer 'Fixing' one item will not work. You need to look at EVERY item, or people will find loopholes like they have done now (harvesting flowers).

But in order for players to even start buying things from the market, we need to have some sort of Cash-inflow. Imagine what would happen if you removed the flower shops and NPCs that buys harvestable resources: the economy will suffer even more, because there is not enough inflow of GC. I think you NEED to have some NPC who buys the lowest level stuff, because if the total amount of GC in the game keeps decreasing, prices will decrease also. If there is sufficient GC in the game, all people will do is buy from others, because the NPC prices are too low = a step in fixing the economy.

Yeah i think that Entropy should give us some feedback to. Which ideas are feasable? Which ones aren't? Do we need to think in an other direction? I think that by just changing the formulas and changing the rate of production we will make a huge step towards a better economy.